[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[Johnnypenso]

So Mitt skewers the Donald today. I don't understand the reasoning of throwing out Mitt Romney to attack Trump. How can anyone possibly think that's going to work?

 

[Adamgp]

I didn't get to see/hear Romney's speech but read a bit of it. He sure changed his opinion of Trump from 4 years ago.

I predict another boost in the polls for Trump over the weekend.

 

[Johnnypenso]

I didn't get to see/hear Romney's speech but read a bit of it. He sure changed his opinion of Trump from 4 years ago.

I predict another boost in the polls for Trump over the weekend.

They still haven't learned that attacking Trump personally and with vitreol just seems to boost his popularity. Makes him look like more of an outsider fighting the establishment which is the core of his popularity. Guaranteed he'll just make a few insults about Romney, everyone will have a good laugh at his bombasity (is that a word?) and on Saturday no one will remember what Romney said or care. The funny part will be watching the liberals and lefties crawl out of the woodwork to tell us how right Romney is when they told us all during the last presidential campaign that he's never done anything right in his life. Don't vote for him he has binders of women!! CNN and others will hail him as a hero I have no doubt.

 

[huskeR32]

The funny part will be watching the liberals and lefties crawl out of the woodwork to tell us how right Romney is when they told us all during the last presidential campaign that he's never done anything right in his life.

Only in your world, where everything is hyper-generalized (seriously, can you go one post in this thread without making up some story about what the "lefties" are going to do next?), does your scenario actually constitute any sort of hypocrisy or flip-flopping.

In reality, there's no contradiction in agreeing with Romney that Trump is a complete knob, while still disagreeing with most of the rest of what he says.

You really should give nuance a try sometime, rather than insisting that everything is binary.

--

The actual funny part is, and has always been, watching Trump pull the GOP's pants down and make plain for all to see that you don't need to actually promote conservative values to win over the Republican base - you just need to harvest the fear and hate that the GOP has spent the last three decades cultivating.

 

[Danoff]

The actual funny part is, and has always been, watching Trump pull the GOP's pants down and make plain for all to see that you don't need to actually promote conservative values to win over the Republican base - you just need to harvest the fear and hate that the GOP has spent the last three decades cultivating.

You say that like Bernie Sanders isn't cultivating a many decades-long version of fear and hate as well.

I have to say it's super fun to sit back and throw stones at everyone. Trump is horrible, absolutely terrible. Fear and hate, check plus! But Bernie Sanders is right there with him with his very own brand, just as horrible. Check plus for him as well! Clinton is bad too, but she's been pretty quiet I feel.

 

[huskeR32]

You say that like Bernie Sanders isn't cultivating a many decades-long version of fear and hate as well.

No, I say it as if Trump were the topic at-hand. Bernie wasn't a part of the conversation I was responding to, so why would I mention him?

Incidentally, if you'd asked to hear my thoughts on a Bernie-Trump comparison, rather than telling me what my thoughts were, you'd have found out that I halfway agree with you; Bernie's rhetoric does indeed play upon a lot of anger and fear.

The difference, though, is that you don't see large numbers of Sanders' supporters throwing long-held principles out the window in the process. Pro-life evangelicals who've spent the last six years hollering about high taxes and the evils of socialized health care are suddenly supporting a candidate who is pro-choice, only marginally religious (if at all), supports a single-payer health care system, and wants to raise taxes on the wealthy.

Has there been a similar abandonment of values by Sanders' supporters? If so, I sure haven't noticed it.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Only in your world, where everything is hyper-generalized (seriously, can you go one post in this thread without making up some story about what the "lefties" are going to do next?), does your scenario actually constitute any sort of hypocrisy or flip-flopping.

In reality, there's no contradiction in agreeing with Romney that Trump is a complete knob, while still disagreeing with most of the rest of what he says.

You really should give nuance a try sometime, rather than insisting that everything is binary.

--

The actual funny part is, and has always been, watching Trump pull the GOP's pants down and make plain for all to see that you don't need to actually promote conservative values to win over the Republican base - you just need to harvest the fear and hate that the GOP has spent the last three decades cultivating.

Hard to tell if your last paragraph is actually a sarcastic attempt at demonstrating hyper generalizing or you really mean what you say. Either way it's a great example for the rest of the audience of how to hyper generalize.

 

[Danoff]

No, I say it as if Trump were the topic at-hand. Bernie wasn't a part of the conversation I was responding to, so why would I mention him?

Incidentally, if you'd asked to hear my thoughts on a Bernie-Trump comparison, rather than telling me what my thoughts were, you'd have found out that I halfway agree with you; Bernie's rhetoric does indeed play upon a lot of anger and fear.

Glad we agree.

The difference, though, is that you don't see large numbers of Sanders' supporters throwing long-held principles out the window in the process. Pro-life evangelicals who've spent the last six years hollering about high taxes and the evils of socialized health care are suddenly supporting a candidate who is pro-choice, only marginally religious (if at all), supports a single-payer health care system, and wants to raise taxes on the wealthy.

Has there been a similar abandonment of values by Sanders' supporters? If so, I sure haven't noticed it.

I don't know that it's really an abandonment of values as much as it is the trap of voting for the lesser of the evils. When faced with the choice of whether to vote for Hitler or Stalin, you do not have to pick the one who killed fewer innocent people. You can just refuse to pick! But most people seem to fall into the toddler trap of "do you want the red shoe s or the blue shoes?" without realizing they're being tricked into picking something they don't want. Do they pick the pro-choice candidate who represents 40% of their views? Or the pro-choice candidate who represents 20%? They should refuse the question but they don't.

 

[huskeR32]

Hard to tell if your last paragraph is actually a sarcastic attempt at demonstrating hyper generalizing or you really mean what you say. Either way it's a great example for the rest of the audience of how to hyper generalize.

What did I generalize? Did I say that it applied to all Republicans and/or conservatives? No, I just said that he's won over the base, which he has - you just need to look at the primary results to date to see that.

I simply commented on actual events that have played out, as opposed to you and your never-ending parade of hypothetical situations that, if only they would ever actually come to pass, might finally make all those libruls look as silly as you want them to be...

--

I don't know that it's really an abandonment of values as much as it is the trap of voting for the lesser of the evils. When faced with the choice of whether to vote for Hitler or Stalin, you do not have to pick the one who killed fewer innocent people. You can just refuse to pick! But most people seem to fall into the toddler trap of "do you want the red shoe s or the blue shoes?" without realizing they're being tricked into picking something they don't want. Do they pick the pro-choice candidate who represents 40% of their views? Or the pro-choice candidate who represents 20%? They should refuse the question but they don't.

But there is a candidate who shares a lot more of their views than Trump does - Cruz (at least if we're still talking about the pro-life evangelicals). They have the option to vote for what they say they stand for, and they're largely not doing so.

 

[CodeRedR51]

But Bernie Sanders is right there with him with his very own brand, just as horrible.

Bernie's rhetoric does indeed play upon a lot of anger and fear.

Isn't that what this whole game is about?

 

[Biggles]

I said it reminds me of Adolph, I didn't say it was identical. The principle is the same. Pick an easy target that few people sympathize with, put the blame on them, everyone unites against them.
So Bernie doesn't blame the rich eh?

"Let us wage a moral and political war against the billionaires and corporate leaders, on Wall Street and elsewhere, whose policies and greed are destroying the middle class of America."

"Do the elected officials in Washington stand with ordinary Americans - working families, children, the elderly, the poor - or will the extraordinary power of billionaire campaign contributors and Big Money prevail? The American people, by the millions, must send Congress the answer to that question."

What Wall Street and credit card companies are doing is really not much different from what gangsters and loan sharks do who make predatory loans. While the bankers wear three-piece suits and don't break the knee caps of those who can't pay back, they still are destroying people's lives.

Substitute the word "Jew" for the relevant term and could easily be mistaken for a Hitler quote. I don't see how this approach is any different than the Donald painting Mexicans with a broad brush. The only difference is that MILLIONAIRES AND BILLIONAIRES aren't quite as sympathetic with the general public. An easy target in other words. Like the Jews.

I would actually agree that those quotes ARE over the top - at least taken out of context. I haven't really heard Bernie that extreme, but I guess that's what's it takes to get the troops fired up in this crazy election cycle. I doubt the Banksters, billionaires & corporate leaders are too worried though - they're not a historically persecuted or disadvantaged group, & public sentiment really isn't united against them. Somewhat illogically, public sentiment seems to be much more focused against politicians rather than on their corporate paymasters.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Im sorry, but look at those polls by five thirty eight, the plus polls are completely fabricated with there own system which has failed epically on the republican candidates already, they bump up numbers based on endorsements which is ludicrous as you can't work that out, rubio and Cruz should be Dominating Trump if that was the case.

Second of all your argument on the Huffington post one makes no sense, there is no real evidence a local poll is more accurate then one that isn't, the accuracy is actually weighted on how many people they poll.

Number of people you poll or larger sample size helps get a better idea of what the population as a whole may agree upon, but in no way is "accurate" when you take multiple polls of different standards and sum them all as the same standard. The margin of error would be an issue between each differing poll. Also how did they fabricate polls? The actual links to who they got the info from are their for you to view first hand, they're just the messenger. Not sure what you're on about at this point.

 

[Biggles]

I think Romney put the case against Trump rather concisely & eloquently ... BUT it seems way too late & Romney seems like exactly the wrong person to be saying it.

 

[ukfan758]

Fox News, why is it so hard to ask the canidates what their plan is in detail? This debate is a mud slinging disgrace.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Fox News, why is it so hard to ask the canidates what their plan is in detail? This debate is a mud slinging disgrace.

Well because it'd be too long winded. Rather the should be asking specific health care centric questions and see where the candidates fall with in the realm to better gauge what they'd do as POTUS if elected.

 

[Johnnypenso]

What did I generalize? Did I say that it applied to all Republicans and/or conservatives? No, I just said that he's won over the base, which he has - you just need to look at the primary results to date to see that.

I simply commented on actual events that have played out, as opposed to you and your never-ending parade of hypothetical situations that, if only they would ever actually come to pass, might finally make all those libruls look as silly as you want them to be...

I guess claiming the GOP has spent the last three decades cultivating fear and hate isn't generalizing then. Makes sense.

 

[Ganon83]

Only people in this debate that look good so far are Kasich and to a lesser extent Cruz

 

[TRGTspecialist]

"Donald Trump defends size of his penis"

With a headline like that, surely the race must be close to reaching Peak Farce?

 

[squadops]

That is horrid

It shows how low the American people have stoop'd imo.

 

[Daniel]

I'm waiting for Ashton Kutcher to come out from behind Trump any moment now to reveal the largest episode of Punk'd in history.

 

[Omnis]

The debate has become a dick-measuring contest. So sad.

 

[squadops]

 

[Liquid]

So instead of war and politics being a metaphorical schlump contest, it is now literally become one?

It's like we're living in one of Robert Harris' alternate history novels.

 

[DK]

I came across this opinion piece on Vox today, discussing how Trump appeals to authoritarianism.

 

[Pupik]

The debate has become a dick-measuring contest. So sad.

US Olympic Committee approves pissing contest as trial sport in 2016.

On a serious note, do people wonder anymore why 10-20% of the population don't vote?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

US Olympic Committee approves pissing contest as trial sport in 2016.

On a serious note, do people wonder anymore why 10-20% of the population don't vote?

Cause those 10-20% don't love America enough, don't want to make it great again, are lazy, don't understand how to vote for the lesser of two evils, and don't care about their freedom to vote.




*or any other excuse a voting member of society would claim because some of them are too stupid to rub two brain cells together to see why voting in such a state of chaos is counter-intuitive to the entire process to begin with.

 

[Dennisch]

At least most of the politicians show that they are true politicians. There are more flip-flops than on an Ozzy beach.

 

[Danoff]

But there is a candidate who shares a lot more of their views than Trump does - Cruz (at least if we're still talking about the pro-life evangelicals). They have the option to vote for what they say they stand for, and they're largely not doing so.

Oh yea, that's how the crazy game is played. There's someone out there that represents you, but you don't vote for them because you want to vote for someone who can win. So instead of voting your conscience you vote for someone you don't like but who you like better than the opposition and you're hoping to tip the scales away from that candidate - who you like least.

Don't ask me why people play this game, I think it's nuts.

 

[CodeRedR51]

On a serious note, do people wonder anymore why 10-20% of the population don't vote?

Yep. And this year is a fine example of why, at age 31, this is the first year I am voting. That is of course unless my choice drops out, then my streak will continue.

 

[huskeR32]

I guess claiming the GOP has spent the last three decades cultivating fear and hate isn't generalizing then. Makes sense.

It's not. I'm not sure you know what that word means.

It would be generalizing if I said something like "all Republicans are racist homophobes." It is also generalizing when you suggest that liberals are "never" open-minded. Taking the traits of a few, projecting them onto many, and using words like "all" or "never" is what makes a generalization.

My observation was limited to a comparatively small group of people (Republican politicians), and focused on their actual actions rather than some assumed set of character traits. If you can't see the difference, I don't know what to tell you.