- 309
- Hoofddorp
- Maddens_Raiders
I'm really digging the service as well and as far as support goes, PD is one of the best I've ever seen @support and I've been gaming way too long.
Polyphony Digital Has No Plans for a Gran Turismo 7
- Thread starter GTPNewsWire
- 218 comments
- 30,337 views
I'm really digging the service as well and as far as support goes, PD is one of the best I've ever seen @support and I've been gaming way too long.
Silver Arrows
(Banned)
- 4,715
- Brandon, MB
- Silver-Arrows21
This is the crux of the argument, I think.
When you factor in the utter collapse of the mid level, A and AA developers and publishers, and the fact that an indie developer isn't going to have the power, or more importantly, the funds to woo Ford, Chevy, etc into their racing games, it means that the genre itself is pretty much ruled only by the few that were smart enough, or more in likely, large enough to survive. Your T10's, PD's and until recently, Evolution. But as Evolution proved, even if you have the backing of a console publisher, you are on a knife's edge.
Racing games will probably never reach the heights they reached in the fifth or sixth generation of consoles. Last generation, developers and publishers who wanted a cheap game title turned to first or cover based shooters. Now, the word of the day is smaller, indie style titles, which can be sold for a quick buck and have the benefit of a lot more resources for when your game has good word of mouth.
Which makes the competition in the sim racing space, especially on consoles all the stranger. It's the one part of the racing game genre that's seen any growth, really. And that's where the deficiencies and mistakes PD has made with GT5 and 6 have come back to haunt them. They had to start from scratch, and in the time between the release of GT6 in 2013, and now, the genre has become not just T10 and PD on consoles, with Codies bringing up the rear. Now you have Kunos and SMS, both looking to box with God, so to speak. You'd think that the prospect of more irons in the fire would give PD more incentive to come out swinging with a title that brings in the new breed of sim racing fans, and the ones that grew up in the sub-genre they themselves created. Instead, it's been a lot of what ifs, confusion, and 'meh' showings, and those that are lapsed fans, like myself, have found better games that fit what they want, and aren't being guided by nostalgia or what might be.
marcvic
Premium
- 882
- USA
- marcvic
The thing that would bother me about the service idea is that you don't get that same sense of newness you get from having a new game with a completely new layout, interface, cover art, intro, etc.
Silver Arrows
(Banned)
- 4,715
- Brandon, MB
- Silver-Arrows21
I mean, for the longest time, JRPG's were pretty much out to pasture with regards to sales in North America, with only Final Fantasy putting up much noise, and even that paled in comparison to what 7 brought to the table, and the diminishing quality with every game released.
Now we have what could be a JRPG bucking the trend and selling well in the mainstream with the Persona games, especially 5.
However, I don't see this kind of turn around from racing games. Ever, really.
Now we have what could be a JRPG bucking the trend and selling well in the mainstream with the Persona games, especially 5.
However, I don't see this kind of turn around from racing games. Ever, really.
- 327
- ::1
Considering that Forza comes with a couple of hundred cars, and past GT games did too, and cost about €60, that's far less than €1 per car, especially considering the full game has lots of other content as well besides cars.
Besides overblown prices, I'm worried that DLC will fragment the online community and make it very difficult to find games. Electronic Arts, one of the largest gaming publishes, went crazy with DLC for their game. Their Battlefield online shooters get a major release about every 1.5 years, and in-between they released 2-4 DLC packs with additional maps and weapons. The players who didn't buy the DLC couldn't play in matches that ran DLC content; they had to find a server that had the exact set of activated DLC that they owned to be guaranteed to be able to play in every match. For example, if a player had the base version, DLC 1 and 2, but not 3 and 4, he would need to find a server with that same configuration if he didn't want to risk getting kicked out whenever a game with DLC 3 or 4 started. The more DLCs got released, the harder it became for players without all of the DLC to find a server. Those players had a very frustrating time finding games and mostly just ended up quitting, leaving the games with only a small community of hard-core fans. Electronic Arts finally realized how bad their DLC strategy is and announced that their future Battlefield games will get additional maps for free after release.
I hope PD/Sony are sensible and will also choose a DLC strategy that won't fragment the community. They should make additional tracks free, so that we can join any online race we want. DLC cars can have a price tag; I'm somewhat OK with that, as long as their performance is balanced compared to the baseline set of cars.
- 2,532
- Toronto, ON
- JKRACING___23
Rest in piece PD. That year long wait, the fact that in the last 4 years the gaming world has made up the advantage PD had over them and what appears to me not be anything special after playing the beta at a friends house. Also I think Kaz is lying about 7 not being in development or at least it not being on his radar as a way to get people to buy sport. GT games are no long revolutionary back in the days of the early games they had a big car list and for the time good graphics now with a massive cut to the car list they lose a key selling point and now games like project cars and forza have caught up with them and are making games way more consistently. SMS will have made 2 games in the time its taken PD to make 1 and project cars besides its not very involving game play and tricky to figure out online interface was a good game. I think its unlikely I'm going to get sport and now that 7 is very much up in the air I'm even more doubtful. I'll stick to I racing and maybe PC2.
- 3,176
- Lokeren
- breyzipp
- breyzipp
Yeah but that is Turn 10's copy/paste policy for cars you already payed €1 for as DLC in their previous games.
Take the 1983 GMC Vandura for example. First you pay for it in the XBox 360 Forza games, I don't know the entire evolution there but it was already in FH1. Then it appears in FM5 as part of payed DLC (€1 per car). Then it appears in the base game of FH2, FM6, FH3 and now probably FM7 as well. So if you start counting the cars in the base game as well that Vandura has already costed more than €1 since you payed for it already more than 5 times. 
- 356
- Kuwait
So to make it short :
If you want GTSport to success - pay.
If you want GTSport to fail - don't pay.
They want to see if this experiment works or not ( of course )
I'm starting to get angry - yet others are willing to support it ( good for them )
Let's see which thing will work - buying full game with cheap DLC ( in it's life cycle ) or buying half game with expensive DLC ( if you count the amount spent in it's life cycle )
This reminds me of Monster Hunter Frontier compared to other MH titles.
So if i like GTS i should sacrifice my $$$ to support them on this experiment ( i mean WHAT !? )
Man i miss GT4 - after GT3 ( 2001 ) in 3 years ( 2004 ) they've made a game with about 700 cars.
I guess i'll go neutral with GTSport if DLC is too expensive by playing the game & only picking the kind of DLCs which are worth it ( i doubt i may do it ) and countinuing the game normally for the rest of it's life cycle by being as economical as possible - or maybe not buying any DLC from the start.
We'll see in the future.
If you want GTSport to success - pay.
If you want GTSport to fail - don't pay.
They want to see if this experiment works or not ( of course )
I'm starting to get angry - yet others are willing to support it ( good for them )
Let's see which thing will work - buying full game with cheap DLC ( in it's life cycle ) or buying half game with expensive DLC ( if you count the amount spent in it's life cycle )
This reminds me of Monster Hunter Frontier compared to other MH titles.
So if i like GTS i should sacrifice my $$$ to support them on this experiment ( i mean WHAT !? )
Man i miss GT4 - after GT3 ( 2001 ) in 3 years ( 2004 ) they've made a game with about 700 cars.
I guess i'll go neutral with GTSport if DLC is too expensive by playing the game & only picking the kind of DLCs which are worth it ( i doubt i may do it ) and countinuing the game normally for the rest of it's life cycle by being as economical as possible - or maybe not buying any DLC from the start.
We'll see in the future.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
An additional concern I have, is that it will somehow work.
Already reading comments about "cheap" dlc.
So people see a dlc pack with 50 cars and 5 tracks for 30 bucks. "Omg that's cheap dlc!"
And another
And another
And another
And another
Now you've spent $210 on GTS for less tracks and cars than competitors offer for $60.
And they'll say "what a good deal".
I truly hope that doesn't work, or everyone will follow suit and racing games will fall back into the shadows.
Cars and racing games aren't popular enough to get people paying that kind of money. Diehards and addicts, sure. Casuals, no effing way. Jmo
Already reading comments about "cheap" dlc.
So people see a dlc pack with 50 cars and 5 tracks for 30 bucks. "Omg that's cheap dlc!"
And another
And another
And another
And another
Now you've spent $210 on GTS for less tracks and cars than competitors offer for $60.
And they'll say "what a good deal".
I truly hope that doesn't work, or everyone will follow suit and racing games will fall back into the shadows.
Cars and racing games aren't popular enough to get people paying that kind of money. Diehards and addicts, sure. Casuals, no effing way. Jmo
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Forza Horizon should be at the 3 million mark by now if not more. The racing games genre might be in decline but even a new ip with awful reviews like DC still sold 2 million (that was 2 years ago).
It's also a game that will push stuff like the PS4 Pro and to a lesser extent VR. I really don't see anything less than 6 million.
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
You'd be a fool to think that's not what's going to happen in GTS. It's already missing the vast majority of cars from previous iterations, so of course there is going to be carry over that you're going to be paying for in DLC. On top of that, licenses expire so you can't expect everything to just make it in just because it was in a game that came out 4-6 years ago. Not only that but your acting like getting it in the base game is a problem of some sort. You counting the base game as paying for it as if it relates to dlc in the same way is way off base. However knowing you, it's obvious that you're just trying to find another outlet to try to talk down on aspects of a game and have double standards against it.Yeah but that is Turn 10's copy/paste policy for cars you already payed €1 for as DLC in their previous games.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I'd take the under in an over/under of 6 million in an avatar bet, depending on the time frame and the terms of the avatar bet. 6 million in 2 years +/- 3 months for potential variations in the reporting time sounds about right. Sales only trickle in after that anyway.
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
Deal. Loser has to have a Pontiac Aztek avatar for 3 months?
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
One month at the most. If I lose how about a GT logo with #1 pasted on top, if you lose a GT logo with a thumbs down in it?
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
One month at the most. If I lose how about a GT logo with #1 pasted on top, if you lose a GT logo with a thumbs down in it?
That's not fair
, It's a GT fan forum.
Tired Tyres
Premium
- 12,535
- West Yorkshire
- Tired_Tyres
- Tired Tyres
If I recall, games sell 50% of their lifetime sales in the first month. So that should be 3 million in one month then.
Of course some games have an extended sales period (GTA5) so who knows.
Of course some games have an extended sales period (GTA5) so who knows.
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
You guys would be polar opposites in regard to personal opinion of the game, so it fitsThat's not fair
- 13,865
- Adelaide
- Neomone
And it's by far and away the best racing game of the generation, with the car list and customisation of a traditional GT, plus open world and a casual friendly focus. You're not making a strong case for GT here.
The game that turned out to be really good? The one that was the only exclusive racing game that PS4 had for...is it still the only one?
VR isn't moving numbers. It's a gimmick for people with enough money to throw at something that is still a marginal technology. PS Pro has nothing to do with how well GTS sells, if anything it's the other way around if people want a stable frame rate.
I think you're pulling 6 million out of thin air. It's possible. It's possible that they sell 10 million. It's possible that they sell 2. Nobody really knows at this point, it's almost entirely uncharted territory. It's been four years since the last GT game, which was widely regarded as bad and had a significant drop in sales from it's predecessor, which also wasn't considered great. GTS is also deviating massively from anything moderately related to "traditional" Gran Turismo structure, in a market where it appears that racing games are tanking.
How much value does the Gran Turismo name still hold in such a market, with the history of the last ten years and the competition that's very, very directly in the same space as GTS? If you think you know, you're at best optimistic. It's a crapshoot, and we won't have any idea how it turns out until release date. And probably December to get the whole picture.
Polyphony have rolled the dice on this one. Your six million is just a number, with no more justification or backing than it "feels" right to you.
Yeah but that is Turn 10's copy/paste policy for cars you already payed €1 for as DLC in their previous games.
Congratulations. You figured out that sequels often make use of the same assets.
It's funny, I know some other games that copied and pasted assets from a previous generation of hardware. They looked like crap and a lot of people agreed that they generally detracted from the graphical excellence of the games, but the one thing that people didn't complain about was paying for them twice. They understood that each game is it's own product, and that you're buying a package.
But hey, feel free to think that you're entitled to a car simply because you once bought FH1 in 2012.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I thought the goal was to embarass the other peson with the avatar. Believe me that's a lot more embarassing than a Pontiac Aztek to meThat's not fair
. I'm actually doing you a favour by offering that option, raising the stakes in factUsually true but the problems is going to be getting the information. It was slow forthcoming from GT6 and if sales are slow with GTS I expect a similar delayed release in sales information.
- 15,532
- Cairo, Egypt
- GTP_SEMS
@Imari Watching how healthy the market for PS4 games is, is my justification. Brand name still matters in my opinion. Driveclub is a great game after several DLC and updates. 2 million would be by far the lowest sales for a mainline GT game. That's not the normal or the expectation. So my 6 million is a lot more aligned with expectation than the 2 million number. Both aren't just numbers being thrown around. Like I said, a niche JRPG like P5 does 2 million now. A first party heavyweight (arguably top 3 Sony IP) will sell a lot no matter what. Bundles alone will make this sell like hot cakes.
@Johnnypenso Man, why do you hate GT so much . But fair enough, you got a deal.
@Johnnypenso Man, why do you hate GT so much
. But fair enough, you got a deal.
- 28,470
- Windsor, Ontario, Canada
- Johnnypenso
I don't hate GT. I've played every game for hundreds of hours. I just don't have the blind devotion others have and can see the game for what it really is, especially the current version. I'm still considering getting a PS4Pro and the game but I'll wait until after release to do so, maybe borrow my son's PS4 for a couple of weeks to try it out first, if I can pry it out of his clenched fingers!@Johnnypenso Man, why do you hate GT so much
Just so you know, this is a sucker's bet for me. I'm sure there will be PS4 bundles this holiday season and they'll probably move millions just from that, units that they might not otherwise sell without the bundling. It would be great to be able to separate the two but that's a stat we'll never see.
- 13,865
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Persona is a niche RPG? Persona 3 and 4 were incredibly well received. Persona 4 did at least a couple million over PS2 and PSV, plus whatever it sold on PS3. Persona is a fairly respectable franchise in it's own right, it's held water for twenty years, and the Shin Megami Tensei franchise that it's a part of is enormous.
It's not Final Fantasy, but I suspect it's not as niche as you're giving it credit for. Since Persona 3 it's been a significant presence in JRPGs.
- 3,176
- Lokeren
- breyzipp
- breyzipp
I'll just keep the personal snipes aside, not lowering myself to that kind of behaviour. I was only replying to the guy who replied to you. My point is that cars in a full game are not exactly cheaper than 1 EUR like he said because you kinda payed for them in previous iterations of that game as well. So if anything I was just supporting your case that 1 EUR per car as DLC price is a fair deal...
I personally have no problem whatsoever with the way this goes in Forza. A car brand new to the series is released as DLC and only costs 1 EUR, for me that is a perfectly fine price. And for successive games on the same console platform these cars will end up in the base game of the next iteration. All perfectly fine for me, we all know how it works.
And for the record i also have no problem at all to pay for the same car again as DLC if it is upgraded from a previous generation console since the polygon count and mode detail has been improved.
- 291
- Florianópolis, SC
If sales are bad and micro transactions don't work, GT7 teasers. Music by Isamu Ohira.
Last edited:
- 14,434
- Los Angeles, CA
- Lma_robot
- lImaRobotl
There was no personal snipe, it was more of a generalization and not meant directly at you. Unless that's actually what you believe, than you'd fall into that generalization. Cars in a game are definitely cheaper than $1, because for any given game you're only paying for it within that game. Since you're talking about base games too, if we take GTS for example we're already getting way more value than 1 dollar per car(even as less than even 50 cents per), and we're also getting a ton of extra's on top of that, like, you know, a whole game(eh somewhat.) Now if we take a look at Forza Motorsport 7, with 700 cars at $60, It looks to be like we're getting a way better deal if we count it per car and the price like you are. I'm not sure why'd you count a having paid for it throughout all its series when you're basically just paying for it in the current game it's in.
As far as DLC, they've all been generally $1 per car as well for most games.
You seemed so far from agreeing with my point that it seemed you were in disagreement. In fact you said that we are paying more than $1 for one car, which is the quite far from what I've said.
- 5,588
- Dahlonega, GA
- ryzno
Didn't Kaz say this last year? Old news...
And us older gamers have every right to complain @RodolphoPNeto...
GT wouldn't have made it this far without us.
And us older gamers have every right to complain @RodolphoPNeto...
GT wouldn't have made it this far without us.
- 2,947
- Austria
- GTP_SnowCrash
An additional concern I have, is that it will somehow work.
Already reading comments about "cheap" dlc.
So people see a dlc pack with 50 cars and 5 tracks for 30 bucks. "Omg that's cheap dlc!"
And another
And another
And another
And another
Now you've spent $210 on GTS for less tracks and cars than competitors offer for $60.
And they'll say "what a good deal".
I truly hope that doesn't work, or everyone will follow suit and racing games will fall back into the shadows.
Cars and racing games aren't popular enough to get people paying that kind of money. Diehards and addicts, sure. Casuals, no effing way. Jmo
I share your fear as far as car DLC is concerned. I can't imagine how they could do this for tracks though, because it would restrict non-buyers from Sport-mode races.
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