Pope puts his papal foot in it - angers Muslim world

Touring Mars

Touring Mars

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Oh dear - as if his Danish cartoon collection were not enough, Pope Benedict XVI has 'aroused the anger of the whole Islamic world' in a statement he made yesterday, which contained a somewhat derogatory reference to the Prophet Mohammed. Article...
 
As misguided as it was for a religious figurehead to say what he said, he wasn't wrong though was he.
 
I have to disagree with the sentments expressed here that this could not be taken as offensive in some way.

The comment (which was not the Pope's own - but he did quote them)...

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."


...is certainly not an accurate description of the entire Islamic faith at all.

Its a piece of religious propaganda from the 14th century and not exactly constructive in any way, certainly no more accurate and constructive that the comments made by Islamic fundamentalists that the west is 'The Great Satan'. Comments that cause upset and offense to a wide range of the western world.

Now while I am sure that it was not his intention to cause any offence, I can certainly see how it could have caused offence.

Regards

Scaff
 
My take on it is that it is a bit of a gaffe... of all the people that you would have expected to understand and use the requisite amount of sensitivity towards people of a different faith, I thought it might have been his Popeness...
 
Touring Mars
My take on it is that it is a bit of a gaffe... of all the people that you would have expected to understand and use the requisite amount of sensitivity towards people of a different faith, I thought it might have been his Popeness...
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Exactly my point, particularly given the ease at which the Catholic Church has taken offence in the past (Life of Brian anyone).

Having read the full transcript of the speech its clear that offence was not the intention, its was a spectacularly poor approach given the sensitive nature of any discussion on religious differences. I mean using a 14th century discussion on the crusades as a reference piece is hardy the best of ideas is it.


Scaff
 
Was the term accurate? Maybe, maybe not. But the fact of the matter is your ONLY hear from the muslim establishment when someone says something derogatory about them. NOT when the Islamic terrorists blow up and embassy or a hospital.

I'm not saying any religion is without it's black sheep, but the way that "moderate" muslims tend to ignore Islamic facists is appalling.
 
I think mybe the anger in the Muslim world should be toward the fundamentalists that give their religion this kind of image.
 
I guess the Muslim world missed his conclusion.

"The intention here is not one of retrenchment or negative criticism, but of broadening our concept of reason and its application."

He was trying to convey a message about not spreading religion through violence, but his wording was poor and I can see how someone could be offended when given just a snippet, but any intelligent person seeing the whole speech could tell that this small quote does not represent the message.
 
Swift
Was the term accurate? Maybe, maybe not. But the fact of the matter is your ONLY hear from the muslim establishment when someone says something derogatory about them. NOT when the Islamic terrorists blow up and embassy or a hospital.

I'm not saying any religion is without it's black sheep, but the way that "moderate" muslims tend to ignore Islamic facists is appalling.
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danoff
I think mybe the anger in the Muslim world should be toward the fundamentalists that give their religion this kind of image.
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You guys must listen to different news networks to me then, following the recent attack on tourists in Jordan almost every Jordanian interviewed spoke about the disgust that they had over the attack and how it turned opinion against mainstream Muslims.

Please remember that news networks can and are selective about who they speak to and what the broadcast, or do people honestly believe that every Muslim in the world actively supports attacks on the west?

In the attack I mentioned above a Jordanian police officer was shot disarming the gunman and stall holders around the site helped to protect and shelter the tourists who were targets. These people put themselves directly in harms way to help.



FoolKiller
I guess the Muslim world missed his conclusion.

"The intention here is not one of retrenchment or negative criticism, but of broadening our concept of reason and its application."

He was trying to convey a message about not spreading religion through violence, but his wording was poor and I can see how someone could be offended when given just a snippet, but any intelligent person seeing the whole speech could tell that this small quote does not represent the message.
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Again this in part is almost certainly going to be inflamed by how it is reported, I find it doubtful that many news networks are either going to translate the entire speech into the local language or broadcast all of it.

Its only possible to see the whole picture if you have access to it, to get it in English I had to search for it, I'm quite sure had I been looking for it in Arabic it would have been a damn sight harder.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
You guys must listen to different news networks to me then, following the recent attack on tourists in Jordan almost every Jordanian interviewed spoke about the disgust that they had over the attack and how it turned opinion against mainstream Muslims.
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Hmm... I don't know what you're talking about, but in this thread, we're talking about the muslim reaction to the pope's statement. What you wrote above has nothing to do with that as far as I can tell.
 
danoff
Hmm... I don't know what you're talking about, but in this thread, we're talking about the muslim reaction to the pope's statement. What you wrote above has nothing to do with that as far as I can tell.
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Well, I would contend we're talking about muslim reactions to any statement that has the slightest negative connotation, true or otherwise.

I see what scaff is saying. But my point is simple. If the muslim leaders, especially those in America wanted to be heard(with this leftist system) that would be cake! But where is Farrakan and the rest of the Nation of Islam? Where are all the prominant leaders of Islam in America when muslim terrorists act against America, Spain, Israel, Phillipines etc? Nowhere to be found, but they get all nutz when someone makes a cartoon or says one line about their prophet.

Scaff, I understand that a lot of muslims don't like the terrorists actions. That's all well and good. But the still doesn't stop the terrorists from being Islamic.
 
Swift
Scaff, I understand that a lot of muslims don't like the terrorists actions. That's all well and good. But the still doesn't stop the terrorists from being Islamic.
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Don't get me wrong I agree that in certain quarters they could do more to put the message across, this could also be a US/European divide, as I have heard plenty of comments of the nature you are talking about from Muslim leaders in the UK.

In regard to your second point, my wife is Catholic, as the IRA were Catholic does that make her a terrorist sympathiser unless she is/was actively and publicly vocal against them?

I don't think that a whole religion (or any group for that matter) should be judged by the actions of a small part of it, lets be fair here, numbers wise if every Muslim thought the same way as the fundamentalists it would all be over by now, simply through force of numbers.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
Don't get me wrong I agree that in certain quarters they could do more to put the message across, this could also be a US/European divide, as I have heard plenty of comments of the nature you are talking about from Muslim leaders in the UK.

In regard to your second point, my wife is Catholic, as the IRA were Catholic does that make her a terrorist sympathiser unless she is/was actively and publicly vocal against them?


Regards

Scaff
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Of course not. I'm not talking about the masses. I'm talking about the so called "leadership" that cries everytime someone uses the word Muslim and Terrorist or Violence in the same sentence. It's just a fact of the times but the "leadership" of islam refuses to see it.

That's who I'm on about. The leadership, not the common muslim that is actually trying to be peaceful. Though I think they should be urging their "leadership" to be vocal against the terrorists actions of the radical islamics(and that's the nicest term I could think of).
 
Scaff
Don't get me wrong I agree that in certain quarters they could do more to put the message across, this could also be a US/European divide, as I have heard plenty of comments of the nature you are talking about from Muslim leaders in the UK.

In regard to your second point, my wife is Catholic, as the IRA were Catholic does that make her a terrorist sympathiser unless she is/was actively and publicly vocal against them?
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Yes - Absolutely.. She must be reported and deported as soon as humanly possible !.... ;-)

Scaff
I don't think that a whole religion (or any group for that matter) should be judged by the actions of a small part of it, lets be fair here, numbers wise if every Muslim thought the same way as the fundamentalists it would all be over by now, simply through force of numbers.
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Absolutely not... But Muslims has this thing that everything western is bad.. The ******* refugees WE accepted into our Western country and gave shelter and opportunities.. These ***** were burning the American flag after 9-11 - celebrating like they'd just won the world soccer Championship.. Even young people who were BORN here...

That does say a thing or two about the Muslim religion... and I doubt it's a good thing.......
 
Flerbizky
Yes - Absolutely.. She must be reported and deported as soon as humanly possible !.... ;-)
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Bags will be packed ASAP


Flerbizky
Absolutely not... But Muslims has this thing that everything western is bad.. The ******* refugees WE accepted into our Western country and gave shelter and opportunities.. These ***** were burning the American flag after 9-11 - celebrating like they'd just won the world soccer Championship.. Even young people who were BORN here...

That does say a thing or two about the Muslim religion... and I doubt it's a good thing.......
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Can you watch the language please, I understand its a difficult topic, but the swear filter exists for a reason.

In regard to the point it says nothing about the Muslim religion at all, but it does say a lot about easily swayed young idiots.

How about the families of innocent Muslims who died on 9-11, was there grief not as valid as anyone else's?

Comments like that remind me of the young guy who was arrested by police in the UK for dressing like a suicide bomber at a march in London. He claimed to be speaking with the voice of Islam, shame he had convictions for dealing drugs, something not tolerated by Islam at all.

Just because someone hides behind a religion does not mean they speak for that religion or its followers, but it does make nice easy TV.

Regards

Scaff
 
Scaff
Bags will be packed ASAP



Can you watch the language please, I understand its a difficult topic, but the swear filter exists for a reason.
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Which is exactly why you don't see many asterisks in my less than regular postings - Note taken.. This subject just gets me EVERY time...

Scaff
In regard to the point it says nothing about the Muslim religion at all, but it does say a lot about easily swayed young idiots.
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Back in 2001, it was not just an easily swayed young idiot or two.. You should've seen it.. We are talking cars with middle eastern flags out the window driving with horns blazing, aforementioned flag burnings, I could go on..

And we took these people IN.. We sheltered them when their own country tried to rip off their toenails. We gave them opportunities to DO something, to make something. And instead, that was what we got in return.. Good thing Guns are not allowed over here..

Scaff
How about the families of innocent Muslims who died on 9-11, was there grief not as valid as anyone else's?
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Isn't that a small price to pay in the fight against everything western ?.....

Scaff
Just because someone hides behind a religion does not mean they speak for that religion or its followers, but it does make nice easy TV.
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Religion Bad... Milkshake Good...
 
I agree with Danoff's sentiment that Muslims across the sea should be taking a more active part in clearing the good name of their religion, if it really is a religion of peace.
 
I am totally with dannoff on this one 👍 👍


Muslims remind me of a house full of women all with PMS at the same time .......
 
danoff
Where's the "slaps-forehead and shakes head looking at the ground" emoticon?

Puns that bad really cramp the style around here.
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We need to be careful; we don't want this thread to become bloated with puns and clever-talk.
 
kennythebomb
I cannot understand Arabs. They just defy logic for me. Not only do they get upset over historical, truthful criticism of their religion.... but they fail to have changed the same behavior that was common centuries ago.

Another article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060915/ap_on_re_mi_ea/pope_muslims
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Islam is a religion. Being a muslim is a person who follows the religion of islam. You coule be black white yellow or green and be a muslim. To call muslims arabs is ignorant.
 

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