Porsche 991 Information Released

[Stotty]

And that's yours truly in the passenger seat. Feels even quicker in the car than it looks on video...

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Nice... the noise is simply sublime... though some of the closing speeds looked a bit on the high side!!

Fastest I've been is 173, but that was me driving - I don't really like being driven unless it's by someone who REALLY knows what they are doing. On the way up to that speed I hit a long amplitude bump in the middle of a very long right hander at 160ish. Front goes quite light, and then, in a 911, there's a split second of realisation that the rear is going to hit the same bump and you just hope the shocks will be able to manage the weight shift. Buttock clenching!

I initially thought the 991R was a bit of a cynical marketing exercise - nothing more than an RS with the spoilers removed and a manual box. I've read a few reviews now and all have commented on how different if feels to the RS, and how much more like a 911 it feels... in so far as it has the similar light front/mobile rear 911's had up to the 991 (though obviously with MUCH higher limits). I think it was Frankel who said something like the R 'flows' down the road where the RS simply pummels the road in to submission.

I want one so badly now... in GT silver with no stripes... or the green one posted by @Cale... actually, pretty much any colour

 

[homeforsummer]

Worth watching Henry's interview with Preuninger if you haven't already - he explains the differences between the R and RS models pretty well. Definitely a difference. The R is an interesting car though - this weird mix of being stripped-out and quite dramatic (least sound-deadening of any new 991, RS engine) but being theoretically more liveable than the RS, and more sensible aesthetically. It's got the regular GT3's wheels for example, rather than the RS's. And while there's no stereo (in the car we drove, anyway), the houndstooth-trimmed buckets were incredible comfortable over the trip.

Funny you mention hitting 173 though - with me driving, the highest I'd been before was about 160, but on Friday I raised that to 175 in a Bentley Mulsanne Never been as fast on land as I was as a passenger in the R, though. Feels really very brisk indeed...

 

[Stotty]

I watched it when it 1st came out, but discounted it as marketing speak... I shouldn't have doubted Porsche

Agree 100% on the aesthetics, but I still think Porsche have got a couple of things the wrong way round with the R/RS... the RS should be the one with no sound deadening or radio. The R should have these as it's more road focused.

Those houndstooth buckets look absolutely fantastic... a guy on PH had the seats in his GT3/RS (can't remember the exact model) trimmed in that as part of the Porsche exclusive program. And I think the 997 Sports Classic had a similar trim as well... just lovely.

Mulsanne... NICE. Very handsome car

Interesting car to hussle... in some ways, would feel far less dramatic at big speeds than in my 996 - a lot quieter/smoother, and probably a LOT faster - I think they are claimed 200mph cars?

My 996 is pretty much flat out at 170, and takes a good while to get there from 160

But then my 996 weighs c.1,000kg less, so has a lot less momentum!

But whatever, anything over 140 feels properly fast to me, unless I'm on a super straight, lightly trafficed, 3 lane French Autoroute... but then you have the constant fear of 'le Gendarmes' and a €750 fine, or a ban and having your car impounded

Congrats on your new PB 👍 Keep at it and you'll get in the 200 club eventually... something to build up to and savior the eventual experience.

 

[homeforsummer]

From what I've seen and heard from people in the office, Preuninger doesn't really do marketing speak - he seems like a proper enthusiast, which is always nice to see at a company that now very obviously makes most of its money from product lines that aren't sports cars.

As far as sound deadening goes, I think that's just more a case of their familiarity with the product. It's like "oh, we could lose even more weight here" for the R, and I'd expect that any subsequent RS will reap the benefits of the R's weight loss.

The Mulsanne was magnificent, frankly. Redefines the phrase "effortless". The Mulsanne Speed tops out at 190 so I was aiming for that, but traffic stopped play. Wind noise at 175 equivalent to about 50mph in my MX-5

 

[TenEightyOne]

And that's yours truly in the passenger seat. Feels even quicker in the car than it looks on video...

Disappointed that nobody in the video comments has asked about our "satnav" sellotaped to the dashboard

Boo, looks rubbish*.

*On a 1-to-10 scale of jealous I'm at around 23 right now

 

[ProjectWHaT]

And that's yours truly in the passenger seat. Feels even quicker in the car than it looks on video...

Disappointed that nobody in the video comments has asked about our "satnav" sellotaped to the dashboard

What do I need to do to get a job like yours?

 

[Cale]

Just watched the latest Episode of MT Ignition and it's a base, no options Carrera 7MT. They basically said the turbos don't ruin the experience at all, and what actually ruins the classic "911" experience is all the fancy dancy rear steer and active this and that. Not to mention it matches or beats the 991.1 C2 S in every measurable performance metric.

 

[Stotty]

I heard the 991.2S is as fast on regular pirellis as the 991.1 GT3 is on cups

 

[Cale]

I heard the 991.2S is as fast on regular pirellis as the 991.1 GT3 is on cups

In what metric?

 

[Stotty]

Nurb lap time.

 

[1241Penguin]

Irrelevant then.

 

[Stotty]

This is a cooking version, on regular road tyres, apparently lapping faster than the supposed track focused version on cup tyres.

Hardly irrelevant.

 

[Cale]

I'd be shocked if that were the case. The lighter, more powerful, grippier, higher downforce car being slower?

 

[Stotty]

Another picture of the green R, which is Preuninger's own car.

I'd be shocked if that were the case. The lighter, more powerful, grippier, higher downforce car being slower?

Not 100% sure if it's a fact or not, just remember reading it somewhere. Though the current 991 Turbo on regular Pirellis has run significantly faster laps on some tracks than the GT3 on cups, so it's not beyond belief.

 

[mustafur]

Probably power delivery is what has made the difference.

 

[Cale]

I doubt it. With 7 gears, PDK shift speeds, and power all the way to 9000rpm the GT3 certainly isn't hurting for usable power in a track setting.

 

[1241Penguin]

This is a cooking version, on regular road tyres, apparently lapping faster than the supposed track focused version on cup tyres.

Hardly irrelevant.

Point is that there's no standard for Nurburgring lap times. With a track as long as that, plus variables in track and climate conditions, and potentially different drivers, a difference in lap time cannot simply be attributed to the car.

Now, unless we know the lap times for both cars, and if we know that the time attacks were done on the same day and by the same driver, I'd hold back my judgement until we get a less error-prone lap time to make a comparison.

 

[mustafur]

I doubt it. With 7 gears, PDK shift speeds, and power all the way to 9000rpm the GT3 certainly isn't hurting for usable power in a track setting.

Yeah that's the point, the S Gets maximum power at 1750RPM which makes it much easier to stay at maximum power for longer.

 

[Cale]

Yeah that's the point, the S Gets maximum power at 1750RPM which makes it much easier to stay at maximum power for longer.

Neither car will see anything close to 1750rpm going all out on a track. Not even in Auto-X.

 

[mustafur]

I mean torque, the point being the car requires less gears to go down off slow corners as it reaches the maximum torque much earlier.

I would not be surprised if S has an advantage in low speed acceleration.

With cars that have achieve maximum power at the end of the redline are still at a disadvantage in racing situations since it still takes longer to teach the power and torque band.

 

[Cale]

I mean torque, the point being the car requires less gears to go down off slow corners as it reaches the maximum torque much earlier.

I would not be surprised if S has an advantage in low speed acceleration.


With cars that have achieve maximum power at the end of the redline are still at a disadvantage in racing situations since it still takes longer to teach the power and torque band.

I'm not refuting that the Carrera will have an advantage in torque at low RPM (At the crank), but considering the shorter gear ratios, and thus higher torque multiplication on the GT3 the difference isn't as large as it appears on paper. Also let's be honest most all out track driving is done in the second half of the RPM range which coincidentally the GT3 has more of.

Here are some numbers from C&D showing how well the gearing in the GT3 mitigates it's torque deficit.

Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 3.9 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.2 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 2.1 sec

I looked for instrumented tests of the new Carrera S but couldn't find any although I'm sure they won't be any quicker.

 

[mustafur]

Is there a video of the Carerra S Lap?

 

[Stotty]

As I said, it's not fact, so no video, just some comments I over heard.

Might not even have been the Nurb... could have been another track.... I'll see if I can find the source again.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Another picture of the green R, which is Preuninger's own car.

Not 100% sure if it's a fact or not, just remember reading it somewhere. Though the current 991 Turbo on regular Pirellis has run significantly faster laps on some tracks than the GT3 on cups, so it's not beyond belief.

I can't even...

 

[Stotty]

I can't even...

Yeah, that's all kinds of awesome

Remove the stickers and badging, and it wouldn't look much different to a 991 C4... but it has 500bhp and GT3RS suspension... makes a much more discrete road car than the be-spoilered GT3/RS.

 

[Clark]

Waiting for a Speed Yellow one, they don't sell it anymore on the 991

 

[Stotty]

Not sure you'll see any 'special' colour 991R's.

I heard a (future) owner say that Porsche have said absolutely, definitely NO PTS on R's.

So it's one of the stock colours only... so no speed yellow/viper green/licht grun/mexico blue/guards/gulf blue etc

Of course you could have it stripped and re-painted in a colour of your choice (as Wopum did with his RS), or of course money might talk (if it's enough).

 

[Cale]

Not sure you'll see any 'special' colour 991R's.

I heard a (future) owner say that Porsche have said absolutely, definitely NO PTS on R's.

So it's one of the stock colours only... so no speed yellow/viper green/licht grun/mexico blue/guards/gulf blue etc

Of course you could have it stripped and re-painted in a colour of your choice (as Wopum did with his RS), or of course money might talk (if it's enough).

I've heard that Porsche randomly selected (or will) some orders for PTS availability.

 

[SPhilli911]

Another picture of the green R, which is Preuninger's own car.

Oh my.... get rid of the stripes, maybe keep the side decals and that's perfect. I like this R better than any GT3/RS.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Carrera S Endurance Racing Edition for Goodwood.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/p...ition-celebrates-motorsport-glory-108663.html