Porsche, RUF and GT5 - trying to figure out the legal situation

[Sohvakettu]

They still don't include cars like the RS500, E30 M3, F40 LM, F1 GTR, Quattro S1 etc. which they have the licence for.

Do they have the license for those? We don't know the nature of their licence deals. Maybe their contracts are made model by model?

 

[t.o.]

? that post doesn't really make sense. Without proper license, dude, they were not allowed to have anykind of Porsche product in their code for retail purpose anyway, to begin with!!!! We can even speculate if Porsche may disagree with PD that GT3 has a Porsche model unofficially in it.

link works now btw

Actually this doesn't make sense. They could have any kind of code they wanted to in the game, they just have to make sure that YOU don't access it. People act like you can't even say the word "Porsche" in PD headquarters. There's NOTHING stopping me from modeling a Porsche game for MY own usage at home. It's only when I try to SELL as a Porsche game or a game where the user can use the Porsche do I run into problems.

 

[kazuyam]

Porsche doesn't care if you need Gameshark or not, they just don't want to see it. Fullstop

 

[NFSCARBON1]

I know this is a bit speculative (sorry) but I think the Porsche may have been put into GT3 because it was Kaz's car and it was put in for him to drive. Is it possible that it is in GT5 as well, along with other hidden cars?

On a non speculative note I think it's good that someone is putting the time and effort in to research the ins and outs of the licencing issues. Perhaps you could ask the Volkswagen group what will happen when they merge with Porsche, as PD already have licences for their brands (Volkswagen, Audi, Lamborghini, Bentley, Buggati)

 

[Tornado]

They still don't include cars like the RS500, E30 M3, F40 LM, F1 GTR, Quattro S1 etc. which they have the licence for.

Eh?



(Coincidentally, why is that still labeled as a BMW anyways?)

Is it possible that it is in GT5 as well, along with other hidden cars?

It wasn't in GT4, so I can't imagine it being in GT5.

 

[XoravaX]

If the car exists and the owner is willing to make it available, then PD could probably do the modeling if they wanted to. The Muira in GT5 is a one-off prototype, and PD had to go to the owner's home and do the their work in the garage. The owner wouldn't transport the car for them or anything.

Yes, that might be possible. After all, at least five or six of them were made, with two of them shipped to Japan.

Someone (who can speak Japanese) mail PD about the Schuppan 962CR.

 

[red piramyd k]

holy s#!t, i didnt know about the 911 in gt3!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvleGFf-5ww

 

[brainfade]

Ok guys, we know the situation with the Porsche license and EA, it simply boils down to competition blocking, nothing more and nothing less, EA will point blank refuse to give sub licenses to PD simply because its a pro for them and a con they can use to ultimately trumph and ridicule GT, where are you business minds guys? ...good lord.

 

[freedomweasel]

Ok guys, we know the situation with the Porsche license and EA, it simply boils down to competition blocking, nothing more and nothing less, EA will point blank refuse to give sub licenses to PD simply because its a pro for them and a con they can use to ultimately trumph and ridicule GT, where are you business minds guys? ...good lord.

But selling the license to T10 for Forza is cool, and makes perfect business sense.

This thread has deteriorated quickly.

 

[Mr. CoolFiat]

Eh?



(Coincidentally, why is that still labeled as a BMW anyways?)


It wasn't in GT4, so I can't imagine it being in GT5.

'Cause its a BMW V12 Engine?

 

[freedomweasel]

'Cause its a BMW V12 Engine?

So does the McLaren F1, which is marked as a McLaren.

I think answer is that that particular McLaren was raced by BMW Motorsport not McLaren.

 

[the Interceptor]

Added the techart response to post #1.

 

[Perkel]

wasn't gamballa closed and sold after dude got lost in africa ?

As i remember their selling parts of company and other things like cars for eg.

First Mclaren F1 which was in posesion of gambala

 

[Tornado]

'Cause its a BMW V12 Engine?

You mean just like the other two McLaren F1 models in the game?

 

[Furinkazen]

So does the McLaren F1, which is marked as a McLaren.

I think answer is that that particular McLaren was raced by BMW Motorsport not McLaren.

From wikipedia:

In the end BMW took an interest, and the motorsport division BMW M headed by engine expert Paul Rosche[6] designed and built Murray a 6.1 L (6064 cc) 60-degree V12 engine called the BMW S70/2.[7] At 627 hp (468 kW; 636 PS) and 266 kg (586 lb) the BMW engine ended up 14% more powerful and 16 kg (35 lb) heavier than Gordon Murray's original specifications, with the same block length.

BMW could also race the F1 under their own brand because they provided money for the rscing programme I think.

 

[charliec]

From wikipedia:

In the end BMW took an interest, and the motorsport division BMW M headed by engine expert Paul Rosche[6] designed and built Murray a 6.1 L (6064 cc) 60-degree V12 engine called the BMW S70/2.[7] At 627 hp (468 kW; 636 PS) and 266 kg (586 lb) the BMW engine ended up 14% more powerful and 16 kg (35 lb) heavier than Gordon Murray's original specifications, with the same block length.

BMW could also race the F1 under their own brand because they provided money for the rscing programme I think.

I'm sure freedomweasel knows that, I think the point was that McLaren was the manufacturer of the car. The Ford Taurus SHO had a Yamaha engine and the Series 2 Lotus Elise ran a Toyota engine. Still didn't make them a Yamaha Taurus SHO or Toyota Elise.

EDIT - Re-read your second point, that plus freedomweasel's point seems to be why. I read they used their relationship with McLaren to enter Le Mans racing via the F1 GTR, I guess that was cheaper than redeveloping an M3 for the Le Mans series?

 

[freedomweasel]

From wikipedia:

In the end BMW took an interest, and the motorsport division BMW M headed by engine expert Paul Rosche[6] designed and built Murray a 6.1 L (6064 cc) 60-degree V12 engine called the BMW S70/2.[7] At 627 hp (468 kW; 636 PS) and 266 kg (586 lb) the BMW engine ended up 14% more powerful and 16 kg (35 lb) heavier than Gordon Murray's original specifications, with the same block length.

BMW could also race the F1 under their own brand because they provided money for the rscing programme I think.

I'm sure freedomweasel knows that, I think the point was that McLaren was the manufacturer of the car. The Ford Taurus SHO had a Yamaha engine and the Series 2 Lotus Elise ran a Toyota engine. Still didn't make them a Yamaha Taurus SHO or Toyota Elise.

EDIT - Re-read your second point, that plus freedomweasel's point seems to be why. I read they used their relationship with McLaren to enter Le Mans racing via the F1 GTR, I guess that was cheaper than redeveloping an M3 for the Le Mans series?

Yep, I definitely knew the engine was BMW made, so I figured maybe BMW raced some of the F1s. If you look under the F1 GTR wiki page it looks like McLaren raced some of the GTRs and BMW Motorsports raced a GTR or two, like the one posted in above.

Off the top of my head I can't think of any other situations with two different factory teams racing the same car.

 

[Le Mans 88]

Eh?



(Coincidentally, why is that still labeled as a BMW anyways?)

That's the long tail car that was included under the BMW licence, PD now have the Mclaren licence yet still omit the more famous short tail cars that won Le Mans and numerous Championships, neither do they include the ultimate road car the F1 LM.

Do they have the license for those? We don't know the nature of their licence deals. Maybe their contracts are made model by model?

The list of iconic European sportscars that are missing is almost endless, it's clear by now this isn't due to missing licences but PD lacking in-depth knowledge of European cars. Of the cars they do include such as the various Le Mans prototypes and touring cars many of them have generic sounds while the 787B and Super GT cars are treated to accurate sounds.

 

[charliec]

The list of iconic European sportscars that are missing is almost endless, it's clear by now this isn't due to missing licences but PD lacking in-depth knowledge of European cars. Of the cars they do include such as the various Le Mans prototypes and touring cars many of them have generic sounds while the 787B and Super GT cars are treated to accurate sounds.

This can also be due to ease of access. It can be expensive to fly staff around the world recording and modelling rare race and historic sports cars (versus recording and modeling ones in your own country).

Also, when you say "iconic European sportscars", that's encompassing a century of motorsports. There's probably another thousand cars that could have been included under that category. They'll never be able to include all cars to suit every player.

 

[Vince_Fiero]

Gemballa? I would not expect an answer on that one.

They are bankrupt.
Was discussed here and here.

 

[charliec]

Gemballa? I would not expect an answer on that one.

This is one of the guys that bought Gemballa: http://www.businessinsider.com/a-banker-is-responsible-for-the-most-expensive-car-crash-ever-2011-2

 

[Le Mans 88]

I'm as big a GT5 fan as anyone but there's no excuse for the European cars that have been ommited from GT5 and the lack of care and attention dished out to those that are included.

In an attempt to hit the 1000 car mark PD has retained a car list that is stuck in 2005 with the odd exception.

 

[the Interceptor]

Gemballa? I would not expect an answer on that one.

They are bankrupt.
Was discussed here and here.

You missed the latest happenings it seems:

August 25th 2010: Gemballa Refreshed and Ready for Launch Under New Management

December 15th 2010: Porsche Cayenne Based Gemballa Tornado First New Model From Resurrected Tuner

 

[charliec]

I'm as big a GT5 fan as anyone but there's no excuse for the European cars that have been ommited from GT5 and the lack of care and attention dished out to those that are included.

In an attempt to hit the 1000 car mark PD has retained a car list that is stuck in 2005 with the odd exception.

I dunno, the McLaren F1, Ferrari 330 P4, Alfa Romeo Giulia TZ2, Jaguar XJ13 Race Car, Miura, Mercedes-Benz 300 SL, etc are well done. I realize for each of those there's another 20+ cars that could have been added, but that's true for all premium cars.

Even for Japanese manufacturers, I'd love a Premium Toyota 2000GT or a Honda S800, etc but it's not to be (for now at least).

 

[Furinkazen]

That's the long tail car that was included under the BMW licence, PD now have the Mclaren licence yet still omit the more famous short tail cars that won Le Mans and numerous Championships, neither do they include the ultimate road car the F1 LM.

The list of iconic European sportscars that are missing is almost endless, it's clear by now this isn't due to missing licences but PD lacking in-depth knowledge of European cars. Of the cars they do include such as the various Le Mans prototypes and touring cars many of them have generic sounds while the 787B and Super GT cars are treated to accurate sounds.

Three different Mclaren's.

On the Porsche issue, PD are not the first to get around it (if that is the way to call it). Rockstar for their Midnight Club 3 game used Gemballa instead of Porsche and Ferrari.

 

[charliec]

Three different Mclaren's.

On the Porsche issue, PD are not the first to get around it (if that is the way to call it). Rockstar for their Midnight Club 3 game used Gemballa instead of Porsche and Ferrari.

As far as the McLaren's, the bodykit you're able to get for the McLaren F1 is essentially the LM. I realize it's not called that, but I have a stock (Silver) McLaren F1 and a modded orange McLaren F1 with LM body aero, so...it's close

 

[Furinkazen]

As far as the McLaren's, the bodykit you're able to get for the McLaren F1 is essentially the LM. I realize it's not called that, but I have a stock (Silver) McLaren F1 and a modded orange McLaren F1 with LM body aero, so...it's close

That is apparently the F1 LM, F1 GTR and F1 GT according to the picture caption.

 

[charliec]

That is apparently the F1 LM, F1 GTR and F1 GT according to the picture caption.

Hm, which does it say which is which? The black ones looks like the GT, orange looks like LM or GTR, and silver looks like the standard F1.

 

[Furinkazen]

Hm, which does it say which is which? The black ones looks like the GT, orange looks like LM or GTR, and silver looks like the standard F1.

I'd say black is GT, Orange is LM, and Silver standard.

 

[Felix]

I would love to see Alpina represented in the game ( I actually own an 85 C2 )
but I think it is a bigger shame the e30 M3 is missing.

One thing that would make Porsche go for the NFS games is it is a multi platform francise which could get to a much wider audiance. ( sorry for the speculation but worth metioning )