- 4,549
- Australia
Potato...
- Thread starter VBR
- 1,339 comments
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DesertPenguin
(Banned)
- 10,691
- Long Island, New York
- DesertPenguin_
Totally aside from the actual conversation, you've never heard of the Jimmy Broadbent YouTube channel?
- 4,549
- Australia
Upon searching just now I think I have seen a video or two of his.
Again, lots of people on this forum have played sims across platforms, his experience of gaming isn't at all unique in that regard.
Obelisk
Premium
- 9,768
- United States
- RMedia_Obelisk
Jimmy's a Contributing Writer here! I'm surprised no one has noticed.
- 4,549
- Australia
- 3,816
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
It does if you remember that physics and "gut feeling" are not the same.
Feeling that someone should lose more time, doesn't mean that physics agrees.
- 1,492
- United States
- equus_ferrum
I've also noticed that grip "off line" seems to be reduced. Since this new update, it's been impossible for me to defend my position on the outside of a corner once someone's gotten to the inside. It's also been easier for me to fully overtake someone once I've gotten to the inside of them. Prior to this, there were actually quite a few corners I preferred to defend from the outside instead of hugging the apex, but now overtaking and defending seems to mirror real life with the lack of grip once you get off the racing line.
DriftShock
(Banned)
- 190
- Carlton, East Yorkshire
- GSRT_MiraiNG
- GAMERSWORLDxX
Pros: Cars now actually have weight to them, less snap oversteer, cars with high downforce no longer plough through low-speed corners, high downforce cars no longer try to kill you when exiting high-speed corners
Cons: Off road tracks are now near impossible because the cars no longer want to slide properly, most noticeable in 4WD, somewhat removes the difficulty and skill required to race without Traction Control
Cons: Off road tracks are now near impossible because the cars no longer want to slide properly, most noticeable in 4WD, somewhat removes the difficulty and skill required to race without Traction Control
- 1,159
- Finland
- CONTINUE_F5
I never tested the top speeds of the cars with chassis tuning berfore. But now, it seems that clearly the fastest top speed is reached with negative rake - high front, low rear ride height.
With positive rake - low front / high rear, the top speed is faster than with even ride height but clearly slower than with the above mentioned high front / low rear setting.
( Record straight line top speed at 24:00 + settings + Replay
Best lap with the best driving line starts at 35:37
Final settings at 1:04:40 )
Is there any 'adrianneweys' here on GTPlanet who could explain what is going on with GT Sport's top speed aero physics? Or after all, is this like it should be, following the real life?
Thanks.
With positive rake - low front / high rear, the top speed is faster than with even ride height but clearly slower than with the above mentioned high front / low rear setting.
( Record straight line top speed at 24:00 + settings + Replay
Best lap with the best driving line starts at 35:37
Final settings at 1:04:40 )
Is there any 'adrianneweys' here on GTPlanet who could explain what is going on with GT Sport's top speed aero physics? Or after all, is this like it should be, following the real life?
Thanks.
- 252
- UK
- jules283
I haven't watched your video, so I'm assuming you refer to race cars with wings. Nose up settings should give highest top speed because you are reducing the angle of attack of the wings. By this reasoning nose down should be slowest, but to make the comparison fair you need to keep the average ride height equal for each test because if the level car is lower overall then it has a reduced frontal area and will gain top speed.
So, say ride height is 100mm then for three tests you would configure at, say, 100/100, then 90/110, then 110/90, so that average ride height would be consistent at 100mm.
Good luck!
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- 3,547
- Theresa, Wisconsin
What I am comparing is what I see in real life compared to what I see in GTS, IRL if someone hangs the rear of the car way out thru a corner they lose what seems an impossible amount of time, yet in GTS you are lucky to make up 1 or 2 car lengths, same goes for putting 2 wheels in the sand exiting a corner in the game, they seem to lose about as much time as one does for having a push rattle on your wheel. What I see happen in the game time wise does not add up to what I have seen happen on track IRL where I have spent more time IRL than playing GTS.
- 3,816
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Can you find an example of what you are claiming? I have never seen what you describe. I have seen people lose a few tenths or hundredths of a second. That's no where near a car length. If I am wrong, I am sure you can find several examples. I posted many examples of my observations.
The game, previously, had this all wrong. You cannot lose traction on three tires if one touches sand and grass. In real life, there have been many highlights that show racers running across grass, dirt, etc, on exit of a corner and not lose time at all. Now, the game handles it properly.
I reiterate my point, believing something in your gut doesn't make it so.
- 3,547
- Theresa, Wisconsin
Do you mean real life examples? They are all over during races, an F1 car spins the rear tires and slides slightly sideways on corner exit and loses a couple tenths all the time, a circle track car has feather throttle on exit because the car is sliding and has no chance on qualifying top half of the field, or he has lift for a split second on the straight at Daytona and gets freight trained by 10 cars. Yet in GTS I can watch the car in front who has been maintaining a 1 second gap on me slide from the apex clear up to the top of the track in a drift and I gain 3 or 4 10ths on him. I have never watched a lot of drifting but the little I have watched they do not go very fast, if drifting was the fast way around the track I'm sure we would see Lewis Hamilton qualify this way. I have put 2 tires off in the sand at Degner more times than I care to remember, when the car 1 second in front of me does the same I expect an easy pass because I lose massive time yet in the game during races it seems they dont slow appropriately.
- 94
- United Kingdom
Ok, so i have spent a lot more time now with various cars and on a DS4 at least the control feels 'dumbed' down, it's just too easy to throw any rear wheel drive car into a turn, stomp on the gas and just powerslide through the turn. It is practically impossible to lose the back end unless you want to. Even with the sensitivity on 7 I just feel like my inputs are being filtered too much. The game has become a bit dull in that respect, I no longer have to watch my throttle input out of turns. I hope this gets patched again, as for me it's a bit lifeless now, yes looks great in replays with clouds if tyre smoke everywhere but that's about it. The AWD cars now just feel like they are on rails 
might be a better experience on a wheel but a backwards step in my opinion on a pad.
might be a better experience on a wheel but a backwards step in my opinion on a pad.
- 3,202
- Philippines
- skygrasper_550--
A few days ago I decided to go back to drifting because of the updated physics model. Coming into this I was hyped because the cars exuded more grip and stability across the board, and man was I in for a treat.
The Supra RZ was one of the very few cars that had a drift tune in my garage, and upon testing it with no changes whatsover, it felt awesome. I was able to throw the car on awkward angles without ever spinning out, and transitioning on corners no longer felt like a life-or-death situation. Even the Genesis road car (yes I tried to drift that, fite me) no longer felt like a death trap on wheels. Yeah it needs a few more fine tweaks than usual but it's manageable. You can drift it and it will reward you if you give just a bit more TLC.
The Supra RZ was one of the very few cars that had a drift tune in my garage, and upon testing it with no changes whatsover, it felt awesome. I was able to throw the car on awkward angles without ever spinning out, and transitioning on corners no longer felt like a life-or-death situation. Even the Genesis road car (yes I tried to drift that, fite me) no longer felt like a death trap on wheels. Yeah it needs a few more fine tweaks than usual but it's manageable. You can drift it and it will reward you if you give just a bit more TLC.
- 3,816
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
So, are you saying that the car in question, that slid up the track, was going the exact same speed as you prior to the slide? Do you know, through the data that you have collected, that it should have slowed to a speed that would have allowed you to gain the amount of time you were hoping to gain?
Likely not.
You are merely assuming that you should have passed that personal solely because of the mistake, regardless of what the physics dictated the impact of his speed should have been.
If we are going to be assuming, it's safe to assume that since he was ahead, he must have been travelling faster than you, because that's the only way to be ahead, correct? If that was the case, his slide would have to have dropped his speed to less than your speed in order for you to catch him up. Since you don't know how much speed he had to start with, you don't know how much he lost. You are simply speculating. Once the mistake was over, his acceleration to top speed resumes and he once again may be travelling faster than you.
Basically, without the data, it's all a bunch of shoulda, woulda, coulda
Here (at 1:26), Daniel Riccardo passes Adrian Sutil at 130R, goes off onto grass and dirt, and comes back on track...loses nothing. Was physics in the real world messed up at that time, or is it simply an unexpected outcome?
Pigems
Premium
- 9,214
- Canada
- TT_Pigems
Here’s an example from GTS, in the final corner the guy ahead of me spins out pretty good, I should have caught and passed him by rights but he didn’t lose enough speed, I can’t imagine this situation plays out the same with IRL. Skip to 1:38 into the video, he spins out coming out the last corner after hitting the shoulder and loses basically zero speed.
- 3,816
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Sure, but you can click on the link and it takes you to youtube and the proper video.
I see nothing wrong. When the player ahead loses the tail, you are braking. So, again, who is losing more speed, you or him? Just because he is in a slide doesn't mean he is losing more speed than you are.
As for the dirt, as in real life, touching dirt does not automatically equal spin. It doesn't work that way.
As in the video I posted about F1 saves. Riccardo goes off and loses nothing while others go off in the same spot and completely lose everything. That's real life. It all depends on whether you are trying to turn away from the dirt, or go straight through it.
Pigems
Premium
- 9,214
- Canada
- TT_Pigems
Really? I figure a guy fishtailing in front of me should have lost more speed than me there? I know I missed the apex slightly and had to let off a bit but I felt I should have gained more on him then what happened, I even had his slipstream and still couldn’t gain much. I’m no expert though by any means so I don’t know anything for sure, that’s why I’m asking.
Turbobrake
(Banned)
- 38
- Zimbabwe
It´s still gt-s, what you expect 
iracing for kids without a wheel.
iracing for kids without a wheel.
- 3,816
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Really? I figure a guy fishtailing in front of me should have lost more speed than me there? I know I missed the apex slightly and had to let off a bit but I felt I should have gained more on him then what happened, I even had his slipstream and still couldn’t gain much. I’m no expert though by any means so I don’t know anything for sure, that’s why I’m asking.
Unfortunately, physics does not take your expectations into account.
I see cars being loose in front of you, and you slowing down to maintain your place behind them. No car ahead of you is so sideways that they should be losing massive amounts of speed, nor are you taking advantage of any potential loss by maintaining or increasing your speed.
Here is a great video of Kenny Brack and a GT40 on a wet track at Goodwood. Listen to the engine note and pay attention to his proximity to the other cars. Despite slipping and sliding everywhere, he is only losing time when he lifts. He is often still on the gas and sliding as he gains and passes other cars that are not on the edge. As I keep iterating, a slide, or loss of traction of any kind, in and of itself, is not equal to speed loss. Speed loss MAY be a result, but speed loss is not a predetermined outcome.
You are looking at the wrong part of the video. Look at the corner exit onto the start-finish-straight, he is not braking there. It's a good example of what he is trying to explain.
Also, please stop calling the GTS physics engine "physics" as it is not a physical model. It is a metamodel trying to emulate car behavior, just as every other racing game (a decent physical model wouldn't be calculated in real time on a PC or videogame console). It is therefore not surprising that it can fail at modeling certain states.
Groundfish
(Banned)
- 4,363
- United States
To be fair, in the example, you did have a bit of a run on him.
Depending on diff settings if it’s under accel and diff is locked...His right rear had grip.
I’ve had that happen before also, if you see both rears slippin, you got him, but that was more of a chassis torque twitch than a slide.
Tough call, because it also depends if you were a nanosecond late on throttle.
Too many factors to out and out make a call for me...
Depending on diff settings if it’s under accel and diff is locked...His right rear had grip.
I’ve had that happen before also, if you see both rears slippin, you got him, but that was more of a chassis torque twitch than a slide.
Tough call, because it also depends if you were a nanosecond late on throttle.
Too many factors to out and out make a call for me...
Most of the time, the differentiation is not needed, but when someone repeatedly says that physics are different to gut feeling and physics are more correct than gut feeling while referring to the physics engine of a (not even intendedly very realistic) game, it becomes quite important within the context.
- 3,547
- Theresa, Wisconsin
I would not have expected Ricciardo to lose time, his car was barely sliding. My example would be Kobyoshis slide immediately before in your example. Why did you not use that example? Are you going to tell me I should not expect to lose time to Kobyoshi either because those are the mistakes I am talking about. I am not a physicist but I have spent 3 decades on both sides of the windshield with race cars, the point I am trying to make is that there seems to be a lot of severe drifts/near spins where the car in front does appear to lose realistic amounts of time based on my real world experience. Apparently you do not feel the same.
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