Presidential Debates

[Danoff]

Kerry was stronger than I expected but I don't think he won. It was pretty close between the two but I think Bush looked stronger in this first round. He effectively destroyed Kerry on North Korea and I don't think Kerry managed to do too much damage about Iraq.

What did you think?

 

[Solid Fro]

I thought Kerry was strong, but he was inconsistent once again. He went all over the place and avoided some of the questions by bringing up previous statements. Bush won, but it wasn't a knockout.

 

[Pako]

With a couple more debates to come, I'm sure we'll see "more of the same" from Kerry. I found it entertaining, but in the end I felt sorry for Kerry. It wasn't a knockout, but Kerry just dug his hole deeper. (IMO)

 

[Duke]

The ever-so-important exit polls are giving Kerry the victory by about 45 to 36, at least as they're reported. I didn't watch.

 

[milefile]

It was exactly as I expected. Kerry is more polished and eloquent. Joe Moron is impressed with this and calls him the winner, totally ignoring factual arguments. Many people will take fancy B.S. over plain facts, sadly.

I didn't learn one single thing I didn't already know by watching the debate. It was boring.

"Global test"... heh...

*EDIT*

I was impressed, however, when Bush was asked, point blank, if 1056 dead soldiers in Iraq was worth it. After a brief preface, he said "yes it was". That took guts.

 

[DQuaN]

Is there anywhere that I can find a movie/sound file/transcript of the debate?

 

[Carl.]

Here or Here

 

[Danoff]

I thought one of the more crushing comebacks was the part where Bush was explaining to Kerry that he can't get a coalition of countries together when he's constantly trashing our allies' involvement in the war.

Another part I thought was fun was where Kerry said we should have bilateral talks with North Korea that should invovle China. What? "Bi" is two. That means us and them. Besides which Bush wants to involve other nations in the region that will help put some diplomatic pressure on them. Kerry didn't seem to have a leg to stand on with NK.

In the end it was almost hard to distinguish the two candidate's views on Iraq. Kerry said it ws right to remove Saddam. He agreed that Iraq was a threat. He says he wants to "get the job done". The only difference I can tell is that Kerry is saying he'll get us out "sooner". Neither of them said when. Bush said how we'd get out but it was very vague.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

I didn't wait up till 2 am to watch it live over here but have seen some reports since. The reporting in UK seems to favour Bush slightly. The onus was on Kerry to deliver a "knockout blow" to Bush, and he didn't take the opportunity. There was a strong soundbite by Bush that is being played here...

He accused Senator Kerry of denigrating the contribution of America's existing allies in Iraq like Britain and Poland, and said the US would not be able to marshal effective international support under a leader who viewed the Iraqi war as a mistake.

IMO Bush is the stronger leader, a leader needs to guide the people, not change his mind and backtrack every time someone disagrees. If you look at Kerry's opion's on the war in Iraq and terrorism, it changes every week...

Edit:

I thought one of the more crushing comebacks was the part where Bush was explaining to Kerry that he can't get a coalition of countries together when he's constantly trashing our allies' involvement in the war.

Yes.. thats the one that stuck in my mind...not smart from Kerry

 

[cardude2004]

I thought Bush did a good job. The bad, John Kerry, was strong, but all over the place. He couldn't make up his mind. I think Bush was better and won. Go George Bush.

 

[High-Test]

Once again, Kerry has shown his innate ability to totally flip flop his issues.

"I think it's wrong to send troops over without body armor."


and that apalled me. does the Quote "I actually did vote for the 87 billion dollars before I voted against it." ring a bell?


Is it just me or did he completely destroy his own argument right there?

 

[cardude2004]

Kerry is crazy. He totally ruins all his plans when he can't make one up. Even if he did do a good job I don't like him.

 

[wellyrn]

North Korea is an interesting issue and I won't even argue that Bush could have "won" that point. I think that almost everything else Kerry had an advantage on.

I doubt there is any point in me making a comment but here goes. Kerry won hands down (as the polls apparently show). He was not inconsistant.

Bush started slowly and fumbled at times but didn't look out of his league at all. I would say 60% of his debate was that Kerry is a flip flop. He didn't answer the questions as directly as Kerry either.

On missile defence and nuclear proliferation Bush didn't even respond pretending the issue doesn't exist.

The stupid "flip flop" bs really pisses me off. Its just not an issue! Changing your mind isn't a bad thing. What is bad is when you try to change original position afterward.

You forgot Poland... BOOOO YAA biaaaaaaaaaaatch!

 

[Sage]

I really wish Kerry would explicitly state his plan for getting out of Iraq quicker… he has a few scattered ideas, but seemingly no definitive plan.

 

[SS69]

changing your mind is bad when it comes to the presidency. people want a person who can make up his mind and stick with the decisions he makes. and kerry really screwed up. he baisically stated that we would have been better off with saddamn in office. and i think bush did a good job considering he was on the defensive the whole time.

 

[the_cobbinator]

I thought Bush did a good job. As has been said, Kerry was definately more polished, but I think GW did a better job in answering the questions. It did get quite annoying though, when it seemed every question needed a preface that had little or nothing to do with the topic at-hand.

 

[wellyrn]

I said a while ago here that the US is over extended. Someone, I think Viper Zero denied that. Same thing in the debate, Kerry says yes, Bush says no. What do you think? Explain why US aren't able to control so many large areas of Iraq if they have ample force. Wouldn't having France, Germany and Russia help things?

 

[Danoff]

Wouldn't having France, Germany and Russia help things?

There was no way to get that to happen. And no it wouldn't, we'd still be paying 90% of the bill.

 

[High-Test]

Exactly. THe World expects the US to do something, and then they get all upset when it does. Ex: Kosovo. Milosevic was kicking out people by the thousands, and we wouldn't stand for it. the UN was thinking about doing something. did they? I'm pretty sure the answer is "not much"

 

[426 HEMI]

Exactly. THe World expects the US to do something, and then they get all upset when it does. Ex: Kosovo. Milosevic was kicking out people by the thousands, and we wouldn't stand for it. the UN was thinking about doing something. did they? I'm pretty sure the answer is "not much"

If I'm not mistaken, the "WORLD" didn't expect the US to do something, Bush went it alone by his own choosing. The thing that pisses most people off about the Irac invasion IMO is the BS over weapons of mass destruction we were all fed. Kosovo was taken care of by a joint task force of UN members who all agreed to do so.

 

[sUn]

Kerry was strong, very strong, I didn't watch it, but I saw a few of the clips. 👍

I may be mistaken but are there 2 more debates or something ?

 

[High-Test]

North Korea is an interesting issue and I won't even argue that Bush could have "won" that point. I think that almost everything else Kerry had an advantage on.

I doubt there is any point in me making a comment but here goes. Kerry won hands down (as the polls apparently show). He was not inconsistant.

Bush started slowly and fumbled at times but didn't look out of his league at all. I would say 60% of his debate was that Kerry is a flip flop. He didn't answer the questions as directly as Kerry either.

On missile defence and nuclear proliferation Bush didn't even respond pretending the issue doesn't exist.

The stupid "flip flop" bs really pisses me off. Its just not an issue! Changing your mind isn't a bad thing. What is bad is when you try to change original position afterward. You forgot Poland... BOOOO YAA biaaaaaaaaaaatch!

Once again, you have demonstrated your Innate stupidity. Changing your mind is not an issue? Changing your mind about how you are going to run the United States of america for people to vote for you isn't a problem?

And, you totally killed your own post. you just destroyed your entire point. "it isn't bad to change your mind" then, " its bad to change your original position" that is totally contradictory. They cancel each other out. first you say it isnt bad to change your mind, then you say it is. I'm impressed.

But john Kerry is almost excused for changing his position, Because so far, He doesn't have one . His entire Campaign is "bush is wrong" I haven't heard anything about what he's going to do, just that he thinks bush screwed up.

"I think it's wrong to send troops over without body armor."

THen he says he voted against the 87 billion dollars.; WHICH WAS FOR BODY ARMOR! Is it just me, or did he totally kill his point? Or did he have one in the first place?

 

[milefile]

Kerry was strong, very strong, I didn't watch it, but I saw a few of the clips. 👍

I may be mistaken but are there 2 more debates or something ?

Are you kidding? If you're not, you should be embarassed, just so you know.

 

[sUn]

Are you kidding? If you're not, you should be embarassed, just so you know.

Kidding about what?

 

[wellyrn]

I am stupid! You are in denial of crack addict proportions. You refuse to even accept the prospect of reality and instead continually spew republiganda out of every orifice. Think for a second about this...

Kerry, like everyone, assumed that the charges against Saddam were actually based on factual intelligence. When it was revealed that the intelligence was trash he re-evaluated his stance. Bush on the other hand decided to pretend that WMD and UN sanctions were not the reason for going to Iraq. Changing your mind based on new information is not the same as trying to deny your orginal position to fit the reality of a situation after the facts come out. I don't think that "kills" my post.

Watching the debate it was pretty clear that Kerry DOES have an opinion. I don't think you could have watched the debate and think this.

Voting against the money for body armor does seem contradictory but I wouldn't be surprised if Kerry had a good reason. There could be party obligations, or other sections of the proposal. He is in favor of arming the troops better so I would assume there is another factor I am not aware of.

Danoff: You seem pretty damn certain about that. If you argue that France, Germany, and Russia would not make any meaningful contribution how can you argue that England, Australia and Poland actually make a meaningful coalition? Also, i think losing Russia was especially stupid because they already are already fighting Jihadists.

 

[Solid Fro]

Voting against the money for body armor does seem contradictory but I wouldn't be surprised if Kerry had a good reason. There could be party obligations, or other sections of the proposal.

Putting politics before protecting our troops? Sounds like a sleezball Liberal.

 

[wellyrn]

Why do you scrutinize the actions of a SENATOR more than your PRESIDENTS? Do you think Kerry's mistakes are more crucial than the ones Bush makes? I think they have got you hating all your "enemies" so much that you don't have time to self evaluate.

 

[Solid Fro]

John Kerry put politics before protecting our troops, plain and simple.

 

[ledhed]

Read this sentence and try to understand it . Kerry and all of the rest of the American congress saw the EXACT SAME INFORMATION compiled by our intelligence services and others, and came to the SAME CONCLUSION. To vote for the use of force to remove Saddam. There is no seprate info . Nothing hidden. To say " he misled us " is a bogus and very revealing statement in itself. kerry is a beady eyed weasel . He will not ever make a good carpool leader , never mind a President. He blows with the politics of his party and will change his stance at the drop of a polling result. I watched the debate . If you go by style and presentation Kerry won big. IF YOU LISTEN TO WHAT HE SAID you will want to vote for someone else besides Kerry.

 

[High-Test]

wellyrn, to you, ledhed is a one-sided fool. But alot of what he said is true. You yust think bush was wrong and needs to go. WHAT THE HECK IS KERRY GOING TO DO FOR THE COUNTRY?????? kerry's whole campaign strategy is "bush is wrong and I wont screw up like him." have you and your liberal friends heard what he is going to do for the country at your windsurfing parties? probably not. all I've heard is that he's goin to pull out of Iraq, and bring more foreign powers to the table. don't these two statements contradict??