Presidential Election: 2012

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This has no relevance to the current posts, but I have to ask. I've watched the last five GOP debates, and I feel as if everything about Ron Paul is great. However, I'm questioning his foreign policy. The reason I'm questioning it is because every other candidate seems to disagree with him on his foreign policy. Since I know many libertarian reside here, I thought I'd direct this question toward you guys.
 
This has no relevance to the current posts, but I have to ask. I've watched the last five GOP debates, and I feel as if everything about Ron Paul is great. However, I'm questioning his foreign policy. The reason I'm questioning it is because every other candidate seems to disagree with him on his foreign policy. Since I know many libertarian reside here, I thought I'd direct this question toward you guys.

I agree with Paul on almost all domestic policy and some foreign policy, but he goes overboard with his isolationism.
 
This has no relevance to the current posts, but I have to ask. I've watched the last five GOP debates, and I feel as if everything about Ron Paul is great. However, I'm questioning his foreign policy. The reason I'm questioning it is because every other candidate seems to disagree with him on his foreign policy. Since I know many libertarian reside here, I thought I'd direct this question toward you guys.
I like a lot of ideas Ron Paul has and he is one of the few GOP members in Washington with a shred of honesty and wisdom.

Then again....

The guy doesn't accept the theory of ****ing evolution. He can get out, too.
 
I like a lot of ideas Ron Paul has and he is one of the few GOP members in Washington with a shred of honesty and wisdom.

Then again....

The guy doesn't accept the theory of ****ing evolution. He can get out, too.
He doesn't? And here I've been, thinking he was a bright fellow. :indiff:
 
I like a lot of ideas Ron Paul has and he is one of the few GOP members in Washington with a shred of honesty and wisdom.

Then again....

The guy doesn't accept the theory of ****ing evolution. He can get out, too.

Where did he say this? I remember a debate earlier this year where Bachman and Perry didn't but Huntsman and Paul said they accepted it.
 
And in what way would this even remotely effect how he would govern?

Alot of people are not comfortable with the idea of empowering someone with a shaky grasp on reality to the stature of POTUS.
 
Alot of people are not comfortable with the idea of empowering someone with a shaky grasp on reality to the stature of POTUS.
Exactly. But hey, Ron Paul wouldn't be the first president in the nation's history with such views, would he?

He is still the best choice I'd say.

Out of curiosity. Do you guys think that the USA will have an atheist president within the next 50 years? I don't have any figures on whether or not atheism is increasing over there. Sorry if I went slightly off topic.
 
Alot of people are not comfortable with the idea of empowering someone with a shaky grasp on reality to the stature of POTUS.

That has no effect on his governance. What Ron Paul believes outside of politics should be completely irrelevant in terms of electability.
 
That has no effect on his governance. What Ron Paul believes outside of politics should be completely irrelevant in terms of electability.
In heavily religious countries, religion has a tendency to be more or less part of politics though.
 
If he believed unicorns would come and eat him unless he prayed to his french fries everyday, would you not question his ability to run a country?
 
...Where did he say this?

I think it was in a town hall meeting a while back.

Ron Paul's quote was:

"I think its a theory...the theory of evolution, and I don't accept it as a theory. But I think the creator that I know, you know created us, every one of us, and created the universe and the precise time and manner and all. I just don't think we're at the point where anybody has absolute proof on either side."

I think there's a video of this somewhere on the web.

Edit update:
I've seen the quote as: "I don't accept it as a theory"
and written as: "I accept it as a theory"

I haven't seen the video, so I don't know which is correct.

GTsail
 
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I like a lot of ideas Ron Paul has and he is one of the few GOP members in Washington with a shred of honesty and wisdom.

Then again....

The guy doesn't accept the theory of ****ing evolution. He can get out, too.

Quote on evolution: "If that were the issue of the day, I wouldn't be running for public office."

In other words, who cares about what he thinks of evolution? He's not going to ban it from being taught in schools or something ridiculous like that.

Evolution has nothing to do with the Presidency, unless we decide to elect some kind of tyrannical fundie-- the EXACT OPPOSITE of Ron Paul. You guys are missing the point on what this whole Ron Paul thing is all about. He's not going to run the country or run our lives. He represents a sharp deviation from the norm in this respect. In recent history we have had a government looking to overreach its boundaries and invade every part of our lives. That's why things are so messed up. Ron Paul is the only candidate with a shot to run the government (NOT the country!) within its responsibilities and get us as a society back on our feet so that we can function properly.
 
Omnis
Quote on evolution: "If that were the issue of the day, I wouldn't be running for public office."

In other words, who cares about what he thinks of evolution? He's not going to ban it from being taught in schools or something ridiculous like that.

Evolution has nothing to do with the Presidency, unless we decide to elect some kind of tyrannical fundie-- the EXACT OPPOSITE of Ron Paul. You guys are missing the point on what this whole Ron Paul thing is all about. He's not going to run the country or run our lives. He represents a sharp deviation from the norm in this respect. In recent history we have had a government looking to overreach its boundaries and invade every part of our lives. That's why things are so messed up. Ron Paul is the only candidate with a shot to run the government (NOT the country!) within its responsibilities and get us as a society back on our feet so that we can function properly.

+1
I have no clue about American politics, but I would imagine a president would have things of greater priority to study rather than the 'Origin of Species'. :rolleyes:
 
How so? Biden isn't as progressive as Obama and Paul isn't as conservative as the tea party/neo-cons. Also some people know how to set differences aside. I guess I see where you're coming from, not what you would expect, but not that strange.
Family Christmas card with a family photo, which includes a non-family member. The fact that they are political opposites and these cards are going to donors, many from the tea party crowd, it seems an odd choice.

This has no relevance to the current posts, but I have to ask. I've watched the last five GOP debates, and I feel as if everything about Ron Paul is great. However, I'm questioning his foreign policy. The reason I'm questioning it is because every other candidate seems to disagree with him on his foreign policy. Since I know many libertarian reside here, I thought I'd direct this question toward you guys.
Here is a link to Ron Paul's foreign policy page, which explains his stance and why he takes it. Make of it what you wish.

http://www.ronpaul.com/on-the-issues/national-defense/

Alot of people are not comfortable with the idea of empowering someone with a shaky grasp on reality to the stature of POTUS.
In a country that, in its constitution, outlaws religious interference with government actions, and in a candidate who would likely be the first to uphold that document and has a history of not letting his personal religious views interfere with governmental policy, what effect would it have on his job performance?

He is also opposed to abortion, yet has voted against all federal laws to outlaw abortion because he knows his personal views do not override state sovereignty. He also has a traditional belief that marriage is between a man and woman, yet does not believe the government should define it as such.

If anything, you have a man who understands the difference between personal belief and freedom. While his "grasp on reality" as it applies to evolution is "shaky" he is the only candidate with a firm grasp on reality as it applies to individual liberty.

What is the worst a president could do by not accepting evolution? Create a policy to have it removed from school curriculum? His stance on education is "the elimination of the inefficient Department of Education, leaving education decisions to be made at the state, local or personal level."

Ron Paul
I think that the smallest level of government possible best performs education. Teachers, parents, and local community leaders should be making decisions about exactly how our children should be taught, not Washington bureaucrats.


I think it was in a town hall meeting a while back.

Ron Paul's quote was:

"I think its a theory...the theory of evolution, and I don't accept it as a theory. But I think the creator that I know, you know created us, every one of us, and created the universe and the precise time and manner and all. I just don't think we're at the point where anybody has absolute proof on either side."

I think there's a video of this somewhere on the web.

Edit update:
I've seen the quote as: "I don't accept it as a theory"
and written as: "I accept it as a theory"

I haven't seen the video, so I don't know which is correct.

GTsail
Your quote is accurate.


To go further, Reddit submitted 10 questions and he answered via video:
You can find the full video and transcript here.
http://www.ronpaul.com/2009-09-11/ron-paul-and-reddit-com/

This is the transcript of the part specifically referring to evolution, and his thoughts on the difference between personal belief and government policy.
With regard to evolution, I mean… I just don’t spend a whole lot of time on this, especially in politics. “Do you believe in evolution or don’t you believe in evolution? Yes or no? And then we’ll decide whether you should be President or not.”

You know it is a theory, nobody has concrete proof of any of this. But quite frankly I think it’s sort of irrelevant, that because we don’t know the exact details and we don’t have geologic support for evolutionary forms, it is a theory, even though it’s a pretty logical theory. But my concept of understanding of a creator is not related one bit to whether or not I or anybody has to believe in evolution or not believe in evolution.

The idea that if you don’t [?] believe in evolution means that you don’t believe in a creator is total nonsense. So I think this once again is overly played and we spend too much time on it. And besides, if you’re in politics it shouldn’t be a bother. This is something maybe not dealing with science as much with your own spiritual life, your personal beliefs. The important thing is that you have a political system where you can debate this and make a decision and government rule shouldn’t be based on this. If you have governments basing their rules on this, then it becomes very important. But in a libertarian society these beliefs aren’t nearly as critical.

When you have government schools it becomes important. “Are you fair in teaching that the earth could have been created by a creator or it came out of a pop, out of nowhere?” In a personal world, we don’t have government dictating and ruling all these things; it’s not very important. So the problem is the political environment that makes these issues so important in deciding what one believes in.
 
If he believed unicorns would come and eat him unless he prayed to his french fries everyday, would you not question his ability to run a country?

Yes. Why? Because it has nothing to do with running a country. That's like asking if someone's tennis skills will attribute to their ability to run a car dealership.
 
Its been my experience that most smart politicians (and I would include Ron Paul in this category) usually "fudge" their answers to a question about the theory of evolution.

They usually want to play the "religious card" at some point, so they don't want to answer too specifically about evolution, lest it limit their answers in the future to other questions about their religious beliefs.

Others (in the not so smart category, like Michele Bachmann - IMO), like to push their "strong" religious beliefs, so they stress their opposition to the theory of evolution in an effort to win the evangelical vote.

Respectfully,
GTsail
 
Yes. Why? Because it has nothing to do with running a country. That's like asking if someone's tennis skills will attribute to their ability to run a car dealership.
No it's not. Being a tennis player does not invlove responsibility of any kind. Being the president of the United States does. The POTUS happens to be the world's most powerful position, and I'd say denying evolution has a lot more to do with running a country than you want to think.

To me knowledge is something very important, and how is a creationist supposed to support knowledge? I'm not saying that Ron Paul will cut down on science if he will be elected, but he will have the power to do so.
 
No it's not. Being a tennis player does not invlove responsibility of any kind. Being the president of the United States does. The POTUS happens to be the world's most powerful position, and I'd say denying evolution has a lot more to do with running a country than you want to think.

Then give me an example of how Ron Paul could use his creationist beliefs in office in such a way that it effects us (And try not to be unrealistic, Ron Paul's a pretty bright guy).
 
Then give me an example of how Ron Paul could use his creationist beliefs in office in such a way that it effects us (And try not to be unrealistic, Ron Paul's a pretty bright guy).
I am entirely O.K. with Ron Paul's personal beliefs in his Lord and Saviour.

What I am not O.K. with is the casual shrugging off of volumes of scientific theory and point blank, in-your-face evidence that we see daily that justify evolutionary theory while doing such mundane things like strolling through the park or watching a BBC nature documentary while munching on chips coming from crops that were bred to be more resilient than "god's will" originally had them.

What I am not O.K. with is a lifelong practising doctor caring for organisms composed of trillions of individual, specialized cells working in unison...and he believes it came from a flying spaghetti monster. That is not someone I want with the launch codes, frankly.

His questioning of the theory of evolution is probably a moot point if he were ever to be elected, ironically, as I believe he wants to abolish the Department of Education. That would lead to Evolutionary vs """Creationist""" debates being relegated to the local level, and less religious parts of the country excelling in life sciences. 💡

Do I think Dr. Paul would make a decent prez out of the current GOP crop and the mediocre Dem Obama? Sure. But that's more a comment on how terrible and devoid of integrity D.C. is.
 
Then give me an example of how Ron Paul could use his creationist beliefs in office in such a way that it effects us (And try not to be unrealistic, Ron Paul's a pretty bright guy).
He can choose to support religious schools that teaches creation more than less religious schools that teaches evolution. That's one thing. Who knows what else he can do?

As I said earlier though, he's not the first president with creationist beliefs, so I guess not much would change at all. What bugs me however, is that the president of the US of A always has to be religious. Why do you think that is?
 
Do I think Dr. Paul would make a decent prez out of the current GOP crop and the mediocre Dem Obama? Sure. But that's more a comment on how terrible and devoid of integrity D.C. is.

This.

I'd rather have an atheist, or at least a theist who accepted evolution. Doesn't matter though, as the competition is pretty grim. It's not like I'd rather have Rick Perry or Barack.
 
I'd rather have an atheist, or at least a theist who accepted evolution. Doesn't matter though, as the competition is pretty grim. It's not like I'd rather have Rick Perry or Barack.
Ron Paul thinks your preference for an evolutioner is pointless, because that should not be an issue decided by the Federal government anyway, and personal beliefs should never be pressed on the public either.

Or are you saying that you'd rather have an athiest...who didn't necessarily uphold his oath to defend the Constitution? Because religion isn't required to violate that.
 
He can choose to support religious schools that teaches creation more than less religious schools that teaches evolution. That's one thing. Who knows what else he can do?

Although he would have the power to do such, that wouldn't be something he would do. Ron Paul supports state's rights. So favoring given from a federal level would be very unlike him.

What bugs me however, is that the president of the US of A always has to be religious. Why do you think that is?

Because the majority of Americans are religious. Electing an atheist candidate in America would be the equivalent of electing a christian prime minister in Iran.
 
Ron Paul thinks your preference for an evolutioner is pointless, because that should not be an issue decided by the Federal government anyway, and personal beliefs should never be pressed on the public either.

I completely agree that it shouldn't be an issue of law or legislation. It is, however, a character flaw and a demonstrated failure of reasoning. I held Barack's smoking habits against him for the same reason. Maybe it won't affect anything at all, but it is a demonstrated failure of reasoning.

Or are you saying that you'd rather have an athiest...who didn't necessarily uphold his oath to defend the Constitution? Because religion isn't required to violate that.

I think I answered that.
 
Because the majority of Americans are religious.
Bingo. And why are they religious? Because they're raised to be, and then in school they're taught that God created everything. If you want this to go on and have the majority of the American people believing in a fairy tale instead of accepting facts, then you're right, a creationist president is not a problem.
Electing an atheist candidate in America would be the equivalent of electing a christian prime minister in Iran.
Not really, but rather the equivalent of electing an atheist prime minister in Iran.
 
I completely agree that it shouldn't be an issue of law or legislation. It is, however, a character flaw and a demonstrated failure of reasoning. I held Barack's smoking habits against him for the same reason. Maybe it won't affect anything at all, but it is a demonstrated failure of reasoning.
Hey, nobody's perfect. From what I've read about his understanding of human rights, it seems to me he's reasoned himself as well as anyone ever has, and therefore his theory of how we got here is completely irrelevant. Life, Liberty, and Property exist whether we adapted for survival or were placed here. After all, who's to say he has demonstrated a failure of reasoning? Maybe he has simply demonstrated that he chooses to not ponder things that he deems unimportant, like I often do.
 
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Bingo. And why are they religious? Because they're raised to be, and then in school they're taught that God created everything.

First of all, not many schools strictly teach creationism (At least none that I can think of). In fact, most teach evolution only. Secondly, there are many christians who accept evolution. (Mostly Catholics)

If you want this to go on and have the majority of the American people believing in a fairy tale instead of accepting facts, then you're right, a creationist president is not a problem.

What does this have to do with what our president believes? Are you suggesting that an atheist president would ban creationism from being taught? (And vise versa)?
 

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