Presidential Election: 2012

[Joel]

Are you just plain dumb? I pointed out cultural diversity.

It's worth noting danoff thinks a document written by racist is the difference. x2

As Danoff said, the 15 or 16% non-hispanics in El Paso make the difference? You really shouldn't be surprised people are calling you racist, because it's a pretty blatantly racist statement. It'd be like me saying Canada's banking system is less volatile because there's less black people here.

 

[Dapper]

You seriously think that the 20% non-hispanics in El Paso are the reason it doesn't look like Jaurez Mexico??

It has nothing to do with the number, it is more diverse. More ways of solving problems the better for everyone. Different cultures and people are the only way to truly be progressive.

It has nothing to do with the corrupt Mexican government and police. Or the rampant drug wars going on which are causing a massive exodus from Jaurez. None of that could be it, it must be attributable to the small portion of the population who aren't hispanic??? 100% racist.

One wonders why the extremely diverse US Government (compared to Mexico), right beside Mexico, and police aren't quite so corrupt.

As Danoff said, the 15 or 16% non-hispanics in El Paso make the difference? You really shouldn't be surprised people are calling you racist, because it's a pretty blatantly racist statement. It'd be like me saying Canada's banking system is less volatile because there's less black people here.

Your analogy is not an equivalent. 15% of a population is a lot, plenty enough to change the way that population works, obviously. Besides, most of Texas is non-Hispanic, meaning more diverse, like I mentioned and you and danoff ignored, and that too will affect things, obviously... just like the diversity of the nation. Different points of view are how things get better for everyone, a small percentage can offer that.

That's about as racist a statement as you can make, whether you grasp that or not.

But it has nothing to do with any one particular race. Do you need me to list every single nation with no diversity and a terrible quality of life (there are a lot with many different colored people, Mexico just happens to be one and right beside El Paso-where my mother was born)?

 

[Joel]

What about Finland? The country is pretty much completely Finns, so why aren't they running into the same problems as Mexico? I bet per capita there's more foreigners in Mexico than in Finland, yet Finland is a highly developed, rich, safe, and clean country. If a lack of ethnic diversity caused poverty, surely Finland should be a poor country, right?

Edit: Japan's population is 98.5% Japanese. Japan must be a poor, corrupt, and dangerous country then, right?

 

[Dapper]

What about Finland? The country is pretty much completely Finns, so why aren't they running into the same problems as Mexico? I bet per capita there's more foreigners in Mexico than in Finland, yet Finland is a highly developed, relatively rich, safe, and clean country. If a lack of ethnic diversity caused poverty, surely Finland should be a poor country, right?

It seems to me most homogeneous countries have the highest suicide rates. A true indicator that life must be great apparently? And I never said "a lack of ethnic diversity caused poverty".

The difference between the US and every other country is it's diversity, nothing more. There are certainly better constitutions, but no other country is more fruitful.

 

[Keef]

If Ron Paul ends up any lower than a close 2nd place finish tonight, I guarantee you there will be strong accusations of vote fraud. The Iowa state GOP has a history of using the buddy system when it comes to caucus votes and tabulation.

 

[Danoff]

There are certainly better constitutions, but no other country is more fruitful.

Elaborate.

 

[Dapper]

Elaborate.

How? Neither clause debatable in my opinion.

 

[Danoff]

How? Neither clause debatable in my opinion.

Which countries have better constitutions and why?

 

[Keef]

Pretty sure almost every constitution around the world is based on the American example, except for the fact that they didn't fully understand our example so they added things which are useless and contradictory. Kinda like the UN document, which is nothing more than leather-bound asswipe.

 

[Dapper]

Which countries have better constitutions and why?

Any constitution that's been fully revised recently is better.

 

[Dotini]

Any constitution that's been fully revised recently is better.

Hungary has a new constitution. But it's not a total success.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ers-first-joint-opposition-demonstration.html

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

 

[Danoff]

Any constitution that's been fully revised recently is better.

Incorrect. Let's take the UN bill of rights, which as keef points out is self-contradictory and impossible to implement chock full of items that can only be listed as "wants" rather than "rights". The items added to that list of "rights" have only done damage.

So did you have something specific in mind?

One wonders why the extremely diverse US Government (compared to Mexico), right beside Mexico, and police aren't quite so corrupt.

...because in the end the US government is accountable to the people (because of the constitution).

 

[Tornado]

Any constitution that's been fully revised recently is better.

Failing to see the "why" part here.

 

[Dapper]

Incorrect.

It is my subjective opinion which can't be incorrect.
I guess you can tell me how something taste too?

Failing to see the "why" part here.

Things change over time, especially 200 years.

 

[Danoff]

It is my subjective opinion which can't be incorrect.

Things change over time, especially 200 years.

Rights don't change over time. Slavery was as wrong then as it is today. The fact that it was practiced or that many saw it as acceptable doesn't change anything.

 

[Bram Turismo]

Pretty sure almost every constitution around the world is based on the American example, except for the fact that they didn't fully understand our example so they added things which are useless and contradictory. Kinda like the UN document, which is nothing more than leather-bound asswipe.

Except some things here in Europe actually make sense

 

[YSSMAN]

If Ron Paul ends up any lower than a close 2nd place finish tonight, I guarantee you there will be strong accusations of vote fraud. The Iowa state GOP has a history of using the buddy system when it comes to caucus votes and tabulation.

In my opinion, the constant rotation of front-runners has demonstrated the basic idea that the system has been rigged in favor of Romney from the start. Considering that they dug up the issue of racism in regard to Paul in order to discredit him, again, showed that they were quite desperate to get ahead in Iowa.

The thing is, even if Ron Paul did win, the Republicans would have written off his performance as nothing more than a misnomer. Because he challenges the very basis of what "modern" Republicans stand for, they won't let him go on the national ticket. Paul would need to do a lot of winning in order to be taken seriously, and even if he did win several primaries, I still doubt they would allow Romney to be out at any point.

What is most-curious is that Murdoch threw his support behind Santorum today. Not only did he choose the most-clueless candidate, he chose the one who associates least with younger voters, and has little appeal outside of the bible-belt. It is demonstrating completely that it is a numbers game, and the only thing they care about is being elected and maintaining power. Paul is a direct threat to what they want, and they will not deal with it.


We'll see tonight. Fingers crossed that Paul can take it, use that momentum to push out the crazies like Santorum or Bachman. I'll still be voting for Paul on the 28th (February), just like in '08, even if it is an uphill battle against Romney like before.


=-=-=-=-=
EDIT: Interesting Post on FiveThirtyEight.com
Why I'd Bet On Santorum (And Against My Model)

Basically, the folks in Iowa don't have the advantage of time when considering candidates, and rarely is an accurate barometer for states in other parts of the country. He looks at the past swings with other candidates ('00, '04 and '08 specifically) and applies the math to his own polling model. The results?

Believable, I'd say.

 

[Dapper]

Hungary has a new constitution. But it's not a total success.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-...ers-first-joint-opposition-demonstration.html

Respectfully submitted,
Steve

Burn! But-

Fifty-five percent said they’re “unsure or wouldn’t vote.”

Not too man people are real worried. It sounds like more people are turning against that dude though, so maybe some good will come out of this. 👍 People protested, and still are, all across this country and no one has catered to them. Maybe there is little concern in Hungary... and their constitution is only 2 days old!

 

[Keef]

We'll see tonight. Fingers crossed that Paul can take it, use that momentum to push out the crazies like Santorum or Bachman. I'll still be voting for Paul on the 28th (February), just like in '08, even if it is an uphill battle against Romney like before.

I'm trying my best to not get excited, but I can't help it. I'll be watching the action on FOX and CNN tonight, trying to ignore everything that comes out of pundits' mouths. Of course I'll be voting for him, as will many people I know who have converted within the past few months. As a libertarian, it takes quite a lot for me to get discouraged and give up.

EDIT: This guy Lanny Davis on FOX thinks Santorum will eke out a win over Romney and Paul in Iowa.

I've got news for you Lanny: You're a washed up moron. Stop talking nonsense and leave us all alone.

 

[CSLACR]

What about Finland? The country is pretty much completely Finns, so why aren't they running into the same problems as Mexico? I bet per capita there's more foreigners in Mexico than in Finland, yet Finland is a highly developed, rich, safe, and clean country. If a lack of ethnic diversity caused poverty, surely Finland should be a poor country, right?

Edit: Japan's population is 98.5% Japanese. Japan must be a poor, corrupt, and dangerous country then, right?

I never said "a lack of ethnic diversity caused poverty".

Wrong.

Do you need me to list every single nation with no diversity and a terrible quality of life?

That's exactly what you meant.
It's called "backpedaling".

 

[Tornado]

Wrong.

That's exactly what you meant.
It's called "backpedaling".

Just let it go. It's not worth it.

 

[Dapper]

Wrong.

That's exactly what you meant.
It's called "backpedaling".

What I said was, "There is a big difference..."
Besides, poverty and quality of life are not the same thing as you seem to think.

Just let it go. It's not worth it.

You are the least constructive person and with poo colored text. Congrats.

Oh, and CNN is just hilarious covering this caucus. It's like the presidential vote.

 

[Keef]

I can't stand this commentator on FOX with the big white teeth. All he can talk about is how Paul doesn't do well with anybody except "his core voters". Something about real Republicans not wanting to vote for him, and therefore this Iowa caucus means nothing for him. As if Iowa isn't a state full of real Republicans - the whole point of making Iowa a big deal is that it's one of the most heavily Republican, traditional, religious states.

 

[Tornado]

See, CSLACR?

What I said was, "There is a big difference..."
Besides, poverty and quality of life are not the same thing as you seem to think.

You are the least constructive person and with poo colored text. Congrats.

Exactly as I said. Not worth it. You can have him dead to rights over something even more obvious than that (the discussion about Libya was a really good example) and he'll just claim that you are taking what he said out of context and try to insult you to change the topic.

 

[Dapper]

See, CSLACR?

Exactly as I said. Not worth it. You can have him dead to rights over something even more obvious than that (the discussion about Libya was a really good example) and he'll just claim that you are taking what he said out of context and try to insult you to change the topic.

Almost constructive! And he did take what I said out of context, he erased more than half my post. And what about Libya? The US dropped bombs on Libya, played a part in the regime change by doing so and no soldiers were killed... all because of the Commanderin Chief. So what?

And if I said "a lack of ethnic diversity caused poverty" just quote me.

 

[Keef]

I'm rather amazed at how well Santorum is doing. And by amazed I mean disgusted. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

 

[CSLACR]

I'm rather amazed at how well Santorum is doing. And by amazed I mean disgusted. I don't want to live on this planet anymore.

Same Rick Santorum I saw in Pennsylvania a while back?
NM, I googled it.

After reading a bit I then recalled that I don't like any of them, so I guess the trick is to find anyone that can knock Obama out of office. That's my goal, anyway.

 

[Keef]

After reading a bit I then recalled that I don't like any of them, so I guess the trick is to find anyone that can knock Obama out of office. That's my goal, anyway.

Ron Paul has been at those top of those "vs. Obama" polls for months now. He's the only one that really believes in anything different than Obama. All the other candidates are virtually the same as Obama, but are less good-looking, smooth-talking, or clever.

EDIT: Honestly I shouldn't be surprised that Santorum is doing well in Iowa. He does hate gays and Muslims, after all, as do about 24% of Iowans.

 

[CSLACR]

Ron Paul has been at those top of those "vs. Obama" polls for months now. He's the only one that really believes in anything different than Obama. All the other candidates are virtually the same as Obama, but are less good-looking, smooth-talking, or clever.

EDIT: Honestly I shouldn't be surprised that Santorum is doing well in Iowa. He does hate gays and Muslims, after all, as do about 24% of Iowans.

Hmmm, I don't find Obama to be any of those things. Just arrogant and elected for the color of his skin.
But then I was apparently a minority on those matters 3 years ago.

 

[paracefan2002]

OBAMA 2012!!!!! The conservatives scare the crap out of me, especially Rick Perry!