Project CARS 3 Developer Blog Details Tuning and Upgrades

[Chikane_GTR]

I don't think that the game has the phisycs under the hood from Pcars 2,and sure not improved.

Cause, without fuel consumption (and cars weight differences due it), more simple damage system, and no tyre degradation working always on the optimal temprature and performance..is for me a complete dumbbed down phisycs engine.

Hopefully they nail the FFB per every car (something that they never achieved in the first 2 games)

About the news.... I'm sorry, just prefer racing simulator than an arcady car tuning/upgrading..
All news and lack of pitstops (sooo necessary for good online racing leagues) don't make me to want this game and sure is that it shouldn't be named project cars 3.

@Chikane_GTR you have also the McLaren 720S GT3 together with the McLaren 650S GT3 in Assetto Corsa Competizione

But caution...it wears his tyres and consumes fuel..

Great car on the mount panorama track BTW

I know but i only have 70 bucks on my psn and i'm waiting for the car list for pc 3 to make my decision.

 

[MroczMR]

If they'd have left pitstops and fuel/tyres in the game but made them optional there wouldn't have anything like this level of backlash

They could have made them just simpler. Like GT Sport ones. I love this animations:

 

[Bloodytears]

Yeah, on positive side - no more terrible management menu, adjusting strategy live is a hell in Project Cars. Miss Gran Turismo Sport approach on this side of a process.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

Yeah, on positive side - no more terrible management menu, adjusting strategy live is a hell in Project Cars. Miss Gran Turismo Sport approach on this side of a process.

On a controller it's easier using the right analogue stick than the d-pad for the icm menu, just press it to activate aswell.

Obviously on a wheel the d-pad is ok, even better if you got a button box/keypad/keyboard though.

 

[Bloodytears]

On a controller it's easier using the right analogue stick than the d-pad for the icm menu, just press it to activate aswell.

Obviously on a wheel the d-pad is ok, even better if you got a button box/keypad/keyboard though.

I'm using analog to look around, and up for view changing. But never thought about it, it might be faster to change fuel with analog if it doesn't need to be pressed for each liter. Though I had a usb keyboard somewhere, but found only standard one, 20 years old, unfortunately.

Still they could make it much easier, at least by leaving PC1 version, or better something similar to GT sport.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

I'm using analog to look around, and up for view changing. But never thought about it, it might be faster to change fuel with analog if it doesn't need to be pressed for each liter. Though I had a usb keyboard somewhere, but found only standard one, 20 years old, unfortunately.

Still they could make it much easier, at least by leaving PC1 version, or better something similar to GT sport.

It's dual assignment, so you can set it for looking around & control of the icm menu, you can still look around with the analogue stick but as soon as you enter the icm menu it switches control over to the menu.

It's the only option that allows dual assignment.

 

[PJTierney]

Upgrades are the most enjoyable part of Forza in the long-term, so hopefully they turn out well here too.

I still race with my Forza friends every Monday (nearly 3 years after launch) purely because the upgrade system lets us drive what we want.

 

[Nacho Libre]

In Forza 6's solo campaign it was still possible to manually build your car to meet the restrictions of the event (no more than 600 in A class for Sport Tourers for example); however the introduction of mod cards made possible to get more power/braking/grip beyond the rating... so it's was not really a true upgrade system anymore. Forza 7 homologation was even more restrictive as you not only had to meet the points restrictions, but it also limited your equipment choices (say race in standard tires only).
If PC3 can pull this off...

 

[Morbid65]

Edit: nvm

 

[LogiForce]

It is the same physics engine. The locked core tyre temp will change how you drive the car, not how the car drives.

I also fail to see how car tuning and upgrading can be classified as arcadey.

Eh... dude. If you don't understand that tyre heat and wear changes influence the car's behavior than it's time for you to do some studying.


Lastly I just wish to throw my opinion on the Project CARS 3 fiasco in the mix. When a developer decides to alter or lock physics elements for their gameplay desires, they are no longer creating a simulation of reality and therefor are no longer creating a simulator. Thus essentially by putting gameplay before reality they are simply creating an arcade game, and I don't even care how good that game engine is under the hood if the game system on top isn't utilizing it for simulation creation purposes.

 

[Wolfe]

Lastly I just wish to throw my opinion on the Project CARS 3 fiasco in the mix. When a developer decides to alter or lock physics elements for their gameplay desires, they are no longer creating a simulation of reality and therefor are no longer creating a simulator. Thus essentially by putting gameplay before reality they are simply creating an arcade game, and I don't even care how good that game engine is under the hood if the game system on top isn't utilizing it for simulation creation purposes.

It's not that simple. There is an ENORMOUS gulf between the expectations of an arcade-style racing game and a simulator that happens to fall short of simulating tire wear/temperature or fuel consumption, no matter how unjustified the absence of those details may be.

I do not agree with SMS's reasoning for backtracking these features, but I cannot agree that what remains is in any sense an "arcade" game either. It is more sensible to criticize PCARS3 for what it lacks as a simulator. To say it's an "arcade game" leaves no useful meaning for either of the two terms.

There's already a big enough gap between the likes of GT Sport and what we know of PCARS3. To lump PCARS3 in with everything else in the arcade hemisphere is simply beyond reason.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Eh... dude. If you don't understand that tyre heat and wear changes influence the car's behavior than it's time for you to do some studying.


Lastly I just wish to throw my opinion on the Project CARS 3 fiasco in the mix. When a developer decides to alter or lock physics elements for their gameplay desires, they are no longer creating a simulation of reality and therefor are no longer creating a simulator. Thus essentially by putting gameplay before reality they are simply creating an arcade game, and I don't even care how good that game engine is under the hood if the game system on top isn't utilizing it for simulation creation purposes.

I'm well aware of how certain dynamics change. However, as the first 3 layers of tyre temperature will still be modelled there will still be a feeling of tyre temps changing. Locking the core temperature to a real world optimal value doesn't suddenly turn it into Ridge Racer. Its the same core physics engine underneath powering it all, plus improvements. What's funny is no one has played it yet, and I'm willing to bet that the difference in feel to PC2 will be almost imperceptible.

Maybe you should go back and do some studying on the development diaries?

 

[MroczMR]

I think that Arcade or Simulation game type isn't just 0 and 1 value. Every game can have some elements of both worlds. I think of it like Variable axis. Where on one side you have 100% arcade games like Ridge Racers and on other side you have 100% sims like iRacing/Rfactor.

There is youtuber viperconcept who made video about it and I completely agree with him.



For now it looks something like this:

How does this relate to the PCars 3 discussion? I just think it will go on this Axis a little into Arcade. It will be somewhere between GT Sport and F1 2013/Forza 6)n so still no 100% Arcade but it is more arcade than PCars 2 imho.

 

[T0MMY3688]

the split on arcade and sim is way too wide and restrictive, pCARS 3 will fall on where that graph put the "sim arcade" side. The 3 dev blog so far, it still have way more "sim" element compared to the usual arcade racer like NFS and The Crew but lack many bits and pieces of a sim. I'm quite surprised that WRC 8 is that far in the "sim" of that scale.

The sim community love calling pCARS 1 and 2 simcade the last few years, now pCARS 3 just decided to make the game into a simcade. Disappointing for a sequel but a fun game might still be in there.

 

[Ak1504]

Forza 7 homologation was even more restrictive as you not only had to meet the points restrictions, but it also limited your equipment choices (say race in standard tires only).

And it is a great system imo because it prevents those 5k hp on wood tires kiddy cars in official multiplayer lobbies

Hope this system is in Forza 8 too.

 

[nicefrog]

I'm not sure why this game needs to exist with Automobilista 2 already out and running so sweet on minimal hardware

 

[Scaff]

I'm not sure why this game needs to exist with Automobilista 2 already out and running so sweet on minimal hardware

Great, can you let us know where we can buy it for consoles?

 

[nicefrog]

Great, can you let us know where we can buy it for consoles?

Give it time man, it only just got out of beta a couple weeks ago. Looks and runs like a console game, hopefully they don't hold out long. Maybe they will wait for next gen but I'm sure it would run sweet on a ps4

 

[AudiMan2011]

Give it time man, it only just got out of beta a couple weeks ago. Looks and runs like a console game, hopefully they don't hold out long. Maybe they will wait for next gen but I'm sure it would run sweet on a ps4

The first AMS never got a console release so I doubt AMS 2 will get one.

 

[FT-1]

I'm not sure why this game needs to exist with Automobilista 2 already out and running so sweet on minimal hardware

Even besides the argument AMS 2 doesn't have a console port (yet), Project CARS 3 is shifting the focus of the franchise, targeting players who enjoy more accessible sims with a structured career mode such as Forza Motorsport and Gran Turismo.

AMS 2 on the other hand, has a greater focus on realism. There is no reason the two can't exist side by side.

 

[nicefrog]

The first AMS never got a console release so I doubt AMS 2 will get one.

Times have changed since then, there wasn't a single realistic sim on consoles back in those days. I don't think any sim developer can ignore the console market anymore with 200 million current gen PC based consoles out there. They happen to have a game that runs on a engine that would do 60 frames on those machines.. You'd be silly to not run with it.

 

[gregc]

Times have changed since then, there wasn't a single realistic sim on consoles back in those days. I don't think any sim developer can ignore the console market anymore with 200 million current gen PC based consoles out there. They happen to have a game that runs on a engine that would do 60 frames on those machines.. You'd be silly to not run with it.

Reiza are a small team with a multi year development roadmap for AMS2 post release. I'm sure they'd love to do a console port (especially as we already know the underlying engine works pretty well on current gen hardware) but I also suspect that all their resources are focused on the PC version. I'd love to be proved wrong and see it release on console, but I very much doubt it will be.

Also, in it's current form at least, while AMS2 is a really good sim it's in kind of the same place as Assetto Corsa was - if you want to hotlap or do single races it's great, but there's no "game" there beyond that really.

 

[greenlightning]

Reiza are a small team with a multi year development roadmap for AMS2 post release. I'm sure they'd love to do a console port (especially as we already know the underlying engine works pretty well on current gen hardware) but I also suspect that all their resources are focused on the PC version. I'd love to be proved wrong and see it release on console, but I very much doubt it will be.

Also, in it's current form at least, while AMS2 is a really good sim it's in kind of the same place as Assetto Corsa was - if you want to hotlap or do single races it's great, but there's no "game" there beyond that really.

Fully agree with you on AMS2. I baught in to hype of some game play videos etc. Also one of the factors that switched to PC gaming. There are hints of goodness in AMS2, but to many other things are lacking/incomplete or buggy or poor programing. I expected interface wise to be similar to PC2. PC2 is much better - all things considered.

Regarding PC3 - all can say is hopefully physics will not be reduced to much. Just maybe it can be something to help convince some only Forza or only GT players that there is more options out their. Options that yes are more closer to real racing and naturally will be more difficult. The reward though is once you have given more sim racing games a chance (a few months or more). It is night and day compared to Forza and GT - so much more entertaining. Unless your not into trying to be more like real racing instead of arcade (anything goes).

 

[nicefrog]

Well I suppose if they know about and can fix all the things that are wrong with PC2 then they can fairly easily make a better game than GT sport this time around with PC3 and that'll be something even if they aren't going for full sim.

 

[evldave333]

And the arcade sim debate rumbles on... I think its too simplistic to be talking about individual elements in a game when making judgements. I'd argue as a pad user just having a playable pad set up will trump whatever sim/arcade elements are in/excluded in this game as the most important factor. Im sure wheel users will have a different opinion, as they will be able to feel the sim elements better through force feedback etc... I wonder if all this debate is moot because the game is actually quite good / terrible... Fancy a demo to be sure with this one...

 

[Wolfe]

@MroczMR -- You are right that it is not binary, but it's difficult to pin down the criteria for laying games out on a specific scale, much less criteria that we can all agree on...

I would leave arcade-style games off and make it a scale of sim realism at varying levels of accuracy and detail -- with old, dated sims and bargain bin also-rans at the bottom, sims like PCARS or AC(C) around the top, and sims like GT/Forza somewhere in between. No "simcade" or "sim-arcade". Fundamental handling characteristics are the most important. Finer details (like tire wear/temperature) are more like tie breakers. Motorsports features are only gameplay features; a sim either has pitstops or it doesn't. Real & licensed circuits or cars are not necessary.

With that laid out, it's challenging to rate a group of sims like PCARS2, Enthusia Professional Racing, and Live for Speed against each other. They're all in the ballpark in terms of handling, but with different advantages over each other. In terms of overall handling characteristics, as well as distinguishing the nuances between similar cars, I would rate them like this:
PCARS2 < EPR < LFS

But for simulating racing slicks, this might be more accurate. The same goes for simulated details (tire wear, thermal simulations, LiveTrack, etc.):
EPR < LFS < PCARS2

And in the end, I enjoy EPR the most.

Others here wouldn't even consider EPR a sim because it lacks the things PCARS3 lacks (and has even more limitations), even though its handling is still more realistic than GT Sport. Some would say LFS isn't a sim because it mostly features fictional cars and tracks.

 

[Veasna Phen]

I think that Arcade or Simulation game type isn't just 0 and 1 value. Every game can have some elements of both worlds. I think of it like Variable axis. Where on one side you have 100% arcade games like Ridge Racers and on other side you have 100% sims like iRacing/Rfactor.

There is youtuber viperconcept who made video about it and I completely agree with him.



For now it looks something like this:
View attachment 942917

How does this relate to the PCars 3 discussion? I just think it will go on this Axis a little into Arcade. It will be somewhere between GT Sport and F1 2013/Forza 6)n so still no 100% Arcade but it is more arcade than PCars 2 imho.

Project Cars 3 can be on Automoblisita 2 level since both game use exact same game engine and live track, but they need to focus their main target for Project Cars 3 by keeping it bit simple for the new players. Maybe in the future game they might change once they settle with everything..

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

"sim racing" is about the PHYSICS.
Period.

Nothing to do with car count, tracks, mods, pits, graphics, etc.

You guys need to quit bitching about it. Its a simulator plain and simple. Grow up!

As long as they are simulating how a car handles relative to its real world counterpart then its a simulator.

 

[AudiMan2011]

"sim racing" is about the PHYSICS.
Period.

Nothing to do with car count, tracks, mods, pits, graphics, etc.

You guys need to quit bitching about it. Its a simulator plain and simple. Grow up!

As long as they are simulating how a car handles relative to its real world counterpart then its a simulator.

Physics are dependant on a lot of dynamic elements in the tire model. PC3 has taken away some of those dynamic elements (locked core temperature, no wear etc). Therefore it will not be able to properly simulate handling relative to real life.

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

Physics are dependant on a lot of dynamic elements in the tire model. PC3 has taken away some of those dynamic elements (locked core temperature, no wear etc). Therefore it will not be able to properly simulate handling relative to real life.

It is still simulating driving physics without there being dynamic wear or core temperature. Those are just additional layers within the physics engine. Its still a simulator without those things.

Is it as deep of a simulator without them? Perhaps not, but its still a simulator.