Project CARS 3 Developer Blog Details Tuning and Upgrades

[05XR8]

What this relegates the game to, is an arcade. Put your quarter in, select your choice in the menu, stock or upgrade, manual or auto and play.

Well, the people that purchase this game(myself included), are just going to have to get over it. There will continue to be complaints, but it'll be chalked up as one for the racing game history books: "Remember when PC3 was the only 'sim' without a pit stop option? What were they thinking?!".

 

[MagpieRacer]

"sim racing" is about the PHYSICS.
Period.

Nothing to do with car count, tracks, mods, pits, graphics, etc.

You guys need to quit bitching about it. Its a simulator plain and simple. Grow up!

As long as they are simulating how a car handles relative to its real world counterpart then its a simulator.

I've been a stout defender of this game but sim racing is much more than just the physics. There's a lot of elements of racing PC3 is missing, so while jts driving model may be 'sim', the racing aspect is lacking.

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

I've been a stout defender of this game but sim racing is much more than just the physics. There's a lot of elements of racing PC3 is missing, so while jts driving model may be 'sim', the racing aspect is lacking.

The aspect of racing doesn't have anything to do with the core handling model. That's just racing and IA. The physics of the car on the track and how that correlates to real life is what make it a "sim" vs arcade.

You can have the most basic handling like cruising USA does but with the best AI in the world. Its still not a "sim" due to the physics not being a relative correlation of the real world.

The argument people are pissing on about here is the physics of the tires and pit stops. The racing aspect is all AI (if youre playing single player or course), no need to bring that into the discussion

The pit stops being axed also has nothing to do with the game being classified as a "sim". People just want to whine and bitch and jump on the bandwagon.

 

[MagpieRacer]

The aspect of racing doesn't have anything to do with the core handling model. That's just racing and IA. The physics of the car on the track and how that correlates to real life is what make it a "sim" vs arcade.

You can have the most basic handling like cruising USA does but with the best AI in the world. Its still not a "sim" due to the physics not being a relative correlation of the real world.

The argument people are pissing on about here is the physics of the tires and pit stops. The racing aspect is all AI (if youre playing single player or course), no need to bring that into the discussion

The pit stops being axed also has nothing to do with the game being classified as a "sim". People just want to whine and bitch and jump on the bandwagon.

No. Your talking about driving physics. Driving physics - racing. 2 different things.

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

No. Your talking about driving physics. Driving physics - racing. 2 different things.

Correct,

Im talking about the driving physics and how it its what determines whether it should be classified as a sim.

The racing is its own thing. I may have mixed my words, im on my phone in a class for work. So im sorta hiding it, dont tell the teacher

 

[warp9engage]

All this complaining is because of the line: "all the sim you could want". The sim-racing community just assumed that meant what they typically understand as a sim, with all the bells and whistles. So they were disappointed when they didn't get that. I suppose you should never assume, as we all know what happens we assume things, but it was a marketing mistake on the part of SMS, nonetheless.

There's also the fact that it's called Project CARS 3, instead of something like Project CARS Revolution. One of them gives the idea of 'direct sequel', while the other gives the idea of 'spin-off'. Calling it PCARS Revolution would have made the game's removal of pit-stops much more defensible, after all, in a spin-off, certain elements are expected to be changed. And it's called 'Revolution' for a reason.

This is another example of the importance of naming and branding, regarding the appeal of a product, especially if the branding is already established and has certain expectations associated with it.

 

[Wolfe]

Physics are dependant on a lot of dynamic elements in the tire model. PC3 has taken away some of those dynamic elements (locked core temperature, no wear etc). Therefore it will not be able to properly simulate handling relative to real life.

PCARS3 will not simulate handling as impacted by the dynamic elements it has dropped. That does not mean it does not simulate handling according to the variables that remain.

All this complaining is because of the line: "all the sim you could want". The sim-racing community just assumed that meant what they typically understand as a sim, with all the bells and whistles. So they were disappointed when they didn't get that.

"All the sim you could want" was indeed an irresponsibly misleading phrase for a follow-up to a title that included these details.

On the other hand, what a certain portion of the sim racing community "typically understands as a sim" is needlessly restrictive and insular. The loss of pitstops is a poor decision. But it does not disqualify any title from being a simulator by any rational definition I can come up with. "Sim" is not strictly exclusive to motorsports simulators and never has been.

 

[IfAndOr]

That does not mean it does not simulate handling according to the variables that remain.

Indeed. And actually with what's been added to both the tyre and overall car physics* I'm thinking/hoping it's going to be superior in "feel" to PC2. Especially for someone like me who mainly uses the default setups, having the "correct" tyres will be a blessing!

*You'd need to read past the "no tyre wear" part to know about this though.

I saw the Laguna video had a default tuning option on the menu. I wonder if that's purely just the car setup or whether that removes any added upgrades as well. I presume the video showed a free run in the sandbox mode.

Sim" is not strictly exclusive to motorsports simulators and never has been.

Farming simulator seems quite popular. I don't think that has tyre wear either.

 

[Wolfe]

Indeed. And actually with what's been added to both the tyre and overall car physics* I'm thinking/hoping it's going to be superior in "feel" to PC2. Especially for someone like me who mainly uses the default setups, having the "correct" tyres will be a blessing!

Same. I expect PCARS3 to ultimately be more intuitive and refined than PCARS2, making it more enjoyable and a more realistic experience in every way except for you know what.

That's on SMS now. Here's hoping they don't disappoint.

 

[fernandito]

People just want to whine and bitch and jump on the bandwagon.

I own two tractors, one god-sized for the most demanding jobs on hard terrain, and a very small one for my own and also very small agro plot.

I recently installed farming simulator and found it to be very realistic, regardless it doesn't have tractor pitstops where I can stop and crack open a beer and smoke some weed before resuming work ,as I do in real life. Even then, I still consider it a sim.

Do you think PC3 without pits and tyre calculations will have such serious level of simulation as that found in farming simulator?

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

I own two tractors, one god-sized for the most demanding jobs on hard terrain, and a very small one for my own and also very small agro plot.

I recently instaled farming simulator and found it to be very realistic, so I consider it a sim.

Do you think PC3 will have such serious level of simulation as that found in farming simulator?

I dont know, i haven't played either one.

 

[Scaff]

"sim racing" is about the PHYSICS.
Period.

Nothing to do with car count, tracks, mods, pits, graphics, etc.

You guys need to quit bitching about it. Its a simulator plain and simple. Grow up!

As long as they are simulating how a car handles relative to its real world counterpart then its a simulator.

Sort of.

The issue as I see it is that we have three areas of simulation if we look at the type of titles we commonly associate with this genre.

Driving Simulation
This one I would agree is dominated by the physics side of how vehicle dynamics and tyre models are recreated.

Racing Simulation
This one is a mixture of the quality and awareness of the AI

Motorsport Simulation
This one is a made up of how well real-world motorsport disciplines are recreated, it can be very focused (such as the F1 series, WRC series or ACC) or more of a sandpit (such as PC). Its also often perceived as requiring the correct use of vehicles, tracks/stages and regulations

Now, these three will at times merge, but allow us to make quite a good scale for various titles, such as (my own view only).

F1 2020: Driving Simulation - Middle / Racing Simulation - High / Motorsport Simulation - Very High

Gran Turismo Sport: Driving Simulation - Middle / Racing Simulation - Low / Motorsport Simulation - Middle

ACC: Driving Simulation: Very High / Racing Simulation - High / Motorsport Simulation - Very High

Enthusia (for its time and for @Wolfe): Driving Simulation - High / Racing Simulation - High / Motorsport Simulation - Low

Ridge Racer 4 (as an 'arcade' example): Driving Simulation - Very Low / Racing Simulation - High / Motorsport Simulation - Low


Now looking at Project Cars 1 and 2 I would rank it as follows:

Driving Simulation - High
Racing Simulation - Middle/High
Motorsport Simulation - High

Now, given what we know right now the directional changes PC3 will bring could be looked at as follows (and assuming that SMS don't mess anything up).

Driving Simulation - Increases
Racing Simulation - Increases
Motorsport Simulation - Decreases

Now depending on which one of these a persons focus is on in terms of needs from a title will determine how they see the change of direction from PC1&2 to PC3.

 

[fernandito]

I dont know, i haven't played either one.

Do you think people in this and other threads here don't like this sim features removal for the sake of whinning and bitching and jumping on the hate banwgon, was it?

Then you also told them to grow up. I mean you have admitted you're attending class, while secretly writting these messages with the phone under your desk. You know, by the time of many here as kids there weren't mobile phones, but we used to getting distracted with other things in class too, and when we were caught we usually got our smooth little faces slapped by, first the teacher, and then when coming home by mom, dad, or both. I mean I don't think this happens to you these days, so could you please tell us to grow up again?

Do you have any of the considered sim tittles, as well as playing them with *ELITTTISST sim fan gear such as a wheel and pedals, so you can have a grown up opinion on what it is like, in order to tell others to grow up their opinions?
_____________________________________
* Screen rumbles

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

Do you think people in this and other threads here don't like this sim features removal for the sake of whinning and bitching and jumping on the hate banwgon, was it?

Then you also told them to grow up. I mean you have admitted you're attending class, while secretly writting these messages with the phone under your desk. You know, by the time of many here as kids there weren't mobile phones, but we used to getting distracted with other things in class too, and when we were caught we usually got our smooth little faces slapped by, first the teacher, and then when coming home by mom, dad, or both. I mean I don't think this happens to you these days, so could you please tell us to grow up again?

Do you have any of the considered sim tittles, as well as playing them with *ELITTTISST sim fan gear such as a wheel and pedals, so you can have a grown up opinion on what it is like, in order to tell others to grow up their opinions?
_____________________________________
* Screen rumbles

Trust me, i have more life experience and maturity than you might expect.

Im not sitting in a high school class, im over 30, im in a class getting my CDL, waiting on the other guys to take their turn in the truck. We're all sitting here on our phones. It was literally a joke.

You'd be surprised how many people are swayed my the masses and do not truly think for themselves. Its not uncommon.

I have a PS4 and a T300 wheel. I would never call myself an "elitist" just for owning equipment that enables me to enjoy playing the games that i want.

And telling people to grow up was aimed at those that are constantly moaning about "im not gonna buy this game because they took out pitstops, and we have set core tire temperatures now". They need to grow up and reconsider. Im sure most of them will buy the game on sale in 6 months or a year and have plenty of fun playing it.

Sitting here saying youre mot gonna buy it because of pits stops and tire temps is ignorant. They core physics are there and its in all likelihood gonna be a good game.

If you want to rant and rave and piss and moan then feel free. I'll just look at you as an ignorant fool on the internet. That's my opinion and viewpoint. Which i believe in entitled to, and i have definitely fought for those rights so I'll continue to utilize them.

 

[gregc]

Sitting here saying youre mot gonna buy it because of pits stops and tire temps is ignorant. They core physics are there and its in all likelihood gonna be a good game.

Rubbish. It is a considered decision based on the fact that SMS have chosen to remove simulation of a core element of motorsport, effectively removing any possibility of race strategies. There's nothing ignorant about deciding not to spend my hard earned cash on something which doesn't fulfil what I want from a racing sim.

 

[IfAndOr]

Do you think PC3 without pits and tyre calculations will have such serious level of simulation as that found in farming simulator?

If this was supposed to be directed at me, since I mentioned Farm Sim earlier, then no it won't have such a degree of agricultural simulation (although it does seem to have a bandwagon).

But it will have a much greater degree of vehicle dynamics, vehicle damage, track condition, weather effects, lighting, AI cars and time of day/year acting on everything. But it's not a simulation of course!

There's nothing ignorant about deciding not to spend my hard earned cash on something which doesn't fulfil what I want from a racing sim.

Absolutely, I agree. If it's not what you want then don't buy it. It's just a bit odd that after each blog post or video everybody who originally have said they are not going to buy it keep telling us they are not going to buy it. I think we've got the message now.

I'm firmly in the maybe I'll buy it, maybe I won't camp.


I like your ratings scale @Scaff. Although I would add into the mix the scope of the simulation. Games like F1 and ACC have a very narrow class of racing to replicate whereas other titles have a much wider range of activities - In theory the narrower the scope the easier it is to get right. So the overall motorsports simulation aspect might be better on some titles.

 

[gregc]

Absolutely, I agree. If it's not what you want then don't buy it. It's just a bit odd that after each blog post or video everybody who originally have said they are not going to buy it keep telling us they are not going to buy it. I think we've got the message now.

I'd like to think I'm not being 'that guy' I'm generally staying quiet unless somebody makes a statement that I won't let slide, in this case someone throwing ignorant around to define a no-buy decision based on announced information

 

[Wolfe]

And telling people to grow up was aimed at those that are constantly moaning about "im not gonna buy this game because they took out pitstops, and we have set core tire temperatures now". They need to grow up and reconsider. Im sure most of them will buy the game on sale in 6 months or a year and have plenty of fun playing it.

Sitting here saying youre mot gonna buy it because of pits stops and tire temps is ignorant. They core physics are there and its in all likelihood gonna be a good game.

If you want to rant and rave and piss and moan then feel free. I'll just look at you as an ignorant fool on the internet. That's my opinion and viewpoint. Which i believe in entitled to, and i have definitely fought for those rights so I'll continue to utilize them.

I'm with you on physics being paramount, but not this.

You have your rights, and others have the right to their choice not to buy. The issue I have is with the apparent need to rationalize that choice by first derisively casting PCARS3 as "arcade". That does strike me as ignorant and immature.

I've bitched about Gran Turismo's and Forza's physics for years, but I still regard them as sims. Not even "simcade". I think there ought to be room on the scale for sims that fall short of one's own expectations...or else it's pretty much just labels for games you like or dislike, isn't it?

 

[Scaff]

I like your ratings scale @Scaff. Although I would add into the mix the scope of the simulation. Games like F1 and ACC have a very narrow class of racing to replicate whereas other titles have a much wider range of activities - In theory the narrower the scope the easier it is to get right. So the overall motorsports simulation aspect might be better on some titles.

Thanks, and I quite agree it's easier to get it right in a narrower scope.

May well use it as the basis of a rating system for my videos when I review titles, just throw in accessibility, Content and Value and bingo you have a comparison system that goes beyond a single number. with the content taking into account the focus on a single series and narrow scope.

So on that basis, PC2 would look like (to me) this:

F1 2020 like this:

and ACC this

 

[gregc]

Thanks, and I quite agree it's easier to get it right in a narrower scope.

May well use it as the basis of a rating system for my videos when I review titles, just throw in accessibility, Content and Value and bingo you have a comparison system that goes beyond a single number. with the content taking into account the focus on a single series and narrow scope.

So on that basis, PC2 would look like (to me) this:

View attachment 943315

F1 2020 like this:

View attachment 943317

and ACC this

View attachment 943318

Just for laughs, what's the chart look like for Racing Bros?

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

I'm with you on physics being paramount, but not this.

You have your rights, and others have the right to their choice not to buy. The issue I have is with the apparent need to rationalize that choice by first derisively casting PCARS3 as "arcade". That does strike me as ignorant and immature.

I've bitched about Gran Turismo's and Forza's physics for years, but I still regard them as sims. Not even "simcade". I think there ought to be room on the scale for sims that fall short of one's own expectations...or else it's pretty much just labels for games you like or dislike, isn't it?

I agree, all of a sudden its being labeled an arcade game due to 2 things being simplified or removed. Which is ridiculous.

Rubbish. It is a considered decision based on the fact that SMS have chosen to remove simulation of a core element of motorsport, effectively removing any possibility of race strategies. There's nothing ignorant about deciding not to spend my hard earned cash on something which doesn't fulfil what I want from a racing sim.

From the racing strategy side yes, sure you are gonna miss some strategy. But im talking about the core physics, and how the game is still a sim.

Thanks, and I quite agree it's easier to get it right in a narrower scope.

May well use it as the basis of a rating system for my videos when I review titles, just throw in accessibility, Content and Value and bingo you have a comparison system that goes beyond a single number. with the content taking into account the focus on a single series and narrow scope.

So on that basis, PC2 would look like (to me) this:

View attachment 943315

F1 2020 like this:

View attachment 943317

and ACC this

View attachment 943318

I remember a year ago or two Ricciardo said in an interview that the simulators they use are about 80% there vs real life, and the codemasters game is about 20% there. In terms of realism/physics.

 

[Scaff]

Just for laughs, what's the chart look like for Racing Bros?

I’m doing that one later

 

[IfAndOr]

just throw in accessibility, Content and Value

Value is a difficult one to define. It means different things to different people. Someone might value the Blancpain GT approach of ACC over the extra content of PCars. And it depends on how much you paid for it (and what you can afford). But the other "throw ins" 👍

How's that new top down racer rate? Actually that might score high on value!

 

[fernandito]

Trust me, i have more life experience and maturity than you might expect.

You don't sound like that; pretty much the opposite and the one who need to grow up. But I always try to respect others as it is my way, so the benefit of the doubt shall be yours as well.

Im not sitting in a high school class, im over 30, im in a class getting my CDL, waiting on the other guys to take their turn in the truck. We're all sitting here on our phones. It was literally a joke.

Like mine with the *elitist thing. Was also a joke (I do have a t300 as well), but they say irony is difficult on the internet, like in the radio. Also 30?, well you're still a virgin about many matters, but hey in the good sense don't get offended.

You'd be surprised how many people are swayed my the masses and do not truly think for themselves. Its not uncommon.

You have some tendency to speak like a master and pontificate both your opinions and some certain aspects about life; about what others should think and what not. And look that might sound respectable and even intimidating in the beginning, but then you end up disrespecting and looking down on others opinions and telling them to grow up just because they don't commune with your school of thought then that's not that cool at all, and speaks volumes about some things.

I have a PS4 and a T300 wheel. I would never call myself an "elitist" just for owning equipment that enables me to enjoy playing the games that i want.

Like I said two paragraphs above, I do too own a t300, and the *elitist comment was just..., ugh. Irony difficult online ok.

And telling people to grow up was aimed at those that are constantly moaning about "im not gonna buy this game because they took out pitstops, and we have set core tire temperatures now". They need to grow up and reconsider. Im sure most of them will buy the game on sale in 6 months or a year and have plenty of fun playing it.

You really have a thing with telling others to grow up do you

Sitting here saying youre mot gonna buy it because of pits stops and tire temps is ignorant.

In your opinion. For them those are critical features for a game that wants to be a sim. And again you disrespect them, so hey who needs to grow up

They core physics are there and its in all likelihood gonna be a good game.

Core physics are inevitably dumbed down when removing that stuff, as long as you label your game as a sim. Likehood to be a good game?, that's another story. Yeah it will probably be a fun game as seen in the corvette video, but the simulation factor will be watered down obviously.

If you want to rant and rave and piss and moan then feel free. I'll just look at you as an ignorant fool on the internet.

You forgot to tell them to grow up in that sentence too. Don't you realize they don't moan for the sake of doing it?, I'd say you can't accept the concerns of others even if they are as legit as seen on these topics.

That's my opinion and viewpoint. Which i believe in entitled to, and i have definitely fought for those rights so I'll continue to utilize them.

Yeah but the difference between them and you is that they do not disrespect you, so your opinion and point of view count a little less from the point of view of those who are truly grown up

But im talking about the core physics, and how the game is still a sim.

Because you've played the game already, I presume.

 

[SlowGrayAudi]

You don't sound like that; pretty much the opposite and the one who need to grow up. But I always try to respect others as it is my way, so the benefit of the doubt shall be yours as well.

Like mine with the *elitist thing. Was also a joke (I do have a t300 as well), but they say irony is difficult on the internet, like in the radio. Also 30?, well you're still a virgin about many matters, but hey in the good sense don't get offended.

You have some tendency to speak like a master and pontificate both your opinions and some certain aspects about life; about what others should think and what not. And look that might sound respectable and even intimidating in the beginning, but then you end up disrespecting and looking down on others opinions and telling them to grow up just because they don't commune with your school of thought then that's not that cool at all, and speaks volumes about some things.

Like I said two paragraphs above, I do too own a t300, and the *elitist comment was just..., ugh. Irony difficult online ok.

You really have a thing with telling others to grow up do you

In your opinion. For them those are critical features for a game that wants to be a sim. And again you disrespect them, so hey who needs to grow up

Core physics are inevitably dumbed down when removing that stuff, as long as you label your game as a sim. Likehood to be a good game?, that's another story. Yeah it will probably be a fun game as seen in the corvette video, but the simulation factor will be watered down obviously.

You forgot to tell them to grow up in that sentence too. Don't you realize they don't moan for the sake of doing it?, I'd say you can't accept the concerns of others even if they are as legit as seen on these topics.

Yeah but the difference between them and you is that they do not disrespect you, so your opinion and point of view count a little less from the point of view of those who are truly grown up

Because you've played the game already, I presume.

No i just speak my mind, and i dont filter my opinions. Like you said, some things are hard to convey on the internet.

If people perceive it incorrectly then they can inquire if theres confusion. If its misinterpreted due to it being on the internet then i cant do much about it.

The term grow up, i am using in the sense that people are literally up in arms and crying on the internet about a video game. If its not the game you want it to be then dont buy it. Your wallet speaks louder than anything.

If anyone finds my opinion disrespectful, which is on a message board on the internet talking about a video game, then they should reevaluate how sensitive they are.

Im not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but im not gonna sit here and try to filter my opinions so that potentially sensitive people on the internet are appeased.

If you want to nit pick on me then feel free. But it wont do you any good.

 

[fernandito]

Oh!

 

[Scaff]

Just for laughs, what's the chart look like for Racing Bros?

Here you go, I was kind and gave it a minor boost on accessibility and a big one on value as its free, the rest, nah it still sucks.

How's that new top down racer rate? Actually that might score high on value!

Does quite well, it's cheap, accessible, has a lot of content, balanced AI and even throws in pit stops and tyre wear.

 

[PJTierney]

Stick DiRT Rally 2.0 and Forza Motorsport 7 on one of those, I'm curious

 

[MagpieRacer]

@Scaff we need a whole thread section dedicated to these charts! Love em.

Also makes a decent structure for your reviews videos? Really good breakdown.

 

[fernandito]

Stick DiRT Rally 2.0 and Forza Motorsport 7 on one of those, I'm curious

He'd need to add "DLC politics" to those charts then. That cannot be ignored when it comes to dr2.