Project CARS 3 Developer Blog Explains New Tire Physics, Confirms Pit Stops Are History

[MroczMR]

Surely the timing of these statements looks like having some logic, releasing some news that SMS knew they would create turmoil in the community, letting this agitation to pass by, and then push the marketing for the game in the last few weeks before the release.

The pre-order window indeed did not open yet, and this already explains quite a lot.

It is also plausible that they were not expecting so much "ado" about the pitstops, and probably they were not even going to talk about this feature being removed, if the infamous trailer released one month ago was not clearly showing the pit lane closed at Interlagos (maybe an oversight? or they wanted to throw a hint and see how the community would react?).

That video generated a lot of talks on all dedicated forums and YouTube, so many that at some point Nathan had to intervene trying to convince all of us that pit-stops are the Incarnate Devil of the Motorsport, and SMS are the white knights sent by the Gods to restore the order, and protect all of us.

It makes a lot of sense. My other theory is that it was made purely to make better product on consoles. PCars 2 had some bugs on weaker systems like first Xbox One and by removing temperatures, tyre wear etc etc. They made calculations much lighter for the CPU. Which means better graphics, more stable game etc. They wanted to make PCars 3 for current gens so it was first thing to cut. I am still mad for removing this, but I am starting to accept this. I just hope they will back with full expirience on next gens with Pcars 4.

 

[Morbid65]

With all the anger, I think we're not even thinking what SMS have added. And that is tuning parts. To me, adding parts to a car is a massive shortcoming of GT and the other two project cars game. In my opinion, and I know I'm not alone - changing parts is better than pit stops and tire wear. There's nothing on the PS4 that does that except some straight up arcade games.

I know I've been supporting them in this thread, but this is not me approving of taking out pit stops and all that goes with it. I'm disappointed about that. But, there's some of us who are looking forward to this game in spite of these things

I disagree that upgrades are better than pitstops/wear in a racing game... Pitstops and wear help make the actual racing deeper and add more variety to the on-track experience, and for a racing game the actual racing should be the primary focus. I'm not saying the actual racing is going to suck in PC3 because we have upgrades now, but rather that adding upgrades won't necessarily save it if some of the valid concerns expressed in this thread end up being true.

Think of it like a fighting game... Mortal Kombat could add a new skill tree system where you can spend points to improve your characters stats, but it wouldn't make the game a better fighting game if they ended up making the actual fighting shallow and simplistic by cutting out special moves so all you could do was punch and kick.

I suppose it's a bit of a "grass is greener" situation though... I've been running and helping run organized racing in Forza since FM1, and building cars and balancing them stopped being enjoyable long ago, so I personally liked that the cars in PC2 I just got in and drove them and worked on tuning them without having to build them, then test them, then rebuild them with different parts, test again, then rebuild and so on until I found the best combo.

This is probably another area we can look at Forza and maybe build some expectations. Forza has had this upgrading and Performance Index thing going for 15 years... and after 15 years they still don't have it right. Some classes are very clearly dominated by specific cars, and the values associated with some parts make them completely useless and ignored by most of the community. Of course it isn't easy to balance an upgrade system, and nevermind a system with 900 or whatever cars in it, but it's something that is wearing on the community a bit to the point that some are discussing the upsides of doing away with it all together, which sounds crazy given it was one of the big selling points of the series in the past.

On top of that, the racing in Forza is pretty low quality for reasons I've already mentioned in this thread, and the fairly extensive upgrade system hasn't done anything to help that... and in some cases has actually made it so that lots of cars are completely useless for class-based racing in the game as after upgrades some other cars are far superior.

Of course those who played PC2 very much knew that their classes weren't perfectly balanced anyways, but with the injection of upgrades it is likely that a "meta" build style will be found and people will be annoyed and we will see those posts like "ugh A-class is so boring, everyone is driving that damn OP Mercedes" or whatever the leaderboard cars are.

I'm not meaning to say "no, upgrades are bad!" or that you shouldn't be excited, just pointing out that they don't necessarily make up for other failings, and that they bring their own issues and downsides.

 

[Zeitoss]

I disagree that upgrades are better than pitstops/wear in a racing game... Pitstops and wear help make the actual racing deeper and add more variety to the on-track experience, and for a racing game the actual racing should be the primary focus. I'm not saying the actual racing is going to suck in PC3 because we have upgrades now, but rather that adding upgrades won't necessarily save it if some of the valid concerns expressed in this thread end up being true.

Think of it like a fighting game... Mortal Kombat could add a new skill tree system where you can spend points to improve your characters stats, but it wouldn't make the game a better fighting game if they ended up making the actual fighting shallow and simplistic by cutting out special moves so all you could do was punch and kick.

I suppose it's a bit of a "grass is greener" situation though... I've been running and helping run organized racing in Forza since FM1, and building cars and balancing them stopped being enjoyable long ago, so I personally liked that the cars in PC2 I just got in and drove them and worked on tuning them without having to build them, then test them, then rebuild them with different parts, test again, then rebuild and so on until I found the best combo.

This is probably another area we can look at Forza and maybe build some expectations. Forza has had this upgrading and Performance Index thing going for 15 years... and after 15 years they still don't have it right. Some classes are very clearly dominated by specific cars, and the values associated with some parts make them completely useless and ignored by most of the community. Of course it isn't easy to balance an upgrade system, and nevermind a system with 900 or whatever cars in it, but it's something that is wearing on the community a bit to the point that some are discussing the upsides of doing away with it all together, which sounds crazy given it was one of the big selling points of the series in the past.

On top of that, the racing in Forza is pretty low quality for reasons I've already mentioned in this thread, and the fairly extensive upgrade system hasn't done anything to help that... and in some cases has actually made it so that lots of cars are completely useless for class-based racing in the game as after upgrades some other cars are far superior.

Of course those who played PC2 very much knew that their classes weren't perfectly balanced anyways, but with the injection of upgrades it is likely that a "meta" build style will be found and people will be annoyed and we will see those posts like "ugh A-class is so boring, everyone is driving that damn OP Mercedes" or whatever the leaderboard cars are.

I'm not meaning to say "no, upgrades are bad!" or that you shouldn't be excited, just pointing out that they don't necessarily make up for other failings, and that they bring their own issues and downsides.

Agree with you on the pitstop and tire wear vs. upgrade.

And also on Forza, that game is a messy Babylon of car categories.
It is so badly arranged that could be used as a manual of DON'T, to be remembered by any racing game developer.
Brainy, messy and still unbalanced.
In this particular aspects, GTS is miles ahead.

 

[Benny44]

@Morbid65 I did say that is my opinion. Whether you agree or disagree, tuning parts are better than pit stops. To me. And to almost everyone I race with. But, I don't race in public lobbies. I race with mostly my friends IRL. So we race all sorts of different vehicles.

I think part of that is because I'm a much bigger car guy than a motorsports guy. It seems every game that takes itself somewhat seriously has been focused on GT3 racing. At least lately. Quite frankly, it's not my thing. And not something the ones I race with are interested in either.

The balance of performance doesn't matter to me that much. It's enjoyable to me to see completely different types of cars racing each other, rather than everyone driving the same thing. GT sport is ok, but for me it stripped a lot of the fun bits away in favor of even racing.

 

[AlexWilmot]

With all the anger, I think we're not even thinking what SMS have added. And that is tuning parts. To me, adding parts to a car is a massive shortcoming of GT and the other two project cars game. In my opinion, and I know I'm not alone - changing parts is better than pit stops and tire wear. There's nothing on the PS4 that does that except some straight up arcade games.

I know I've been supporting them in this thread, but this is not me approving of taking out pit stops and all that goes with it. I'm disappointed about that. But, there's some of us who are looking forward to this game in spite of these things

Have you tried Forza motorsport at all?

 

[MagpieRacer]

@Morbid65 I did say that is my opinion. Whether you agree or disagree, tuning parts are better than pit stops. To me. And to almost everyone I race with. But, I don't race in public lobbies. I race with mostly my friends IRL. So we race all sorts of different vehicles.

I think part of that is because I'm a much bigger car guy than a motorsports guy. It seems every game that takes itself somewhat seriously has been focused on GT3 racing. At least lately. Quite frankly, it's not my thing. And not something the ones I race with are interested in either.

The balance of performance doesn't matter to me that much. It's enjoyable to me to see completely different types of cars racing each other, rather than everyone driving the same thing. GT sport is ok, but for me it stripped a lot of the fun bits away in favor of even racing.

Same. But its nice to also see that implemented in a game with pCars driving dynamics, and if the track and car list is anything like Pcars2 its gonna be awesome to upgrade those cars.

Have you tried Forza motorsport at all?

Whether he's tried it is irrelevant to looking forward to upgrades being in PC3. I would definitrly rather have a more comprehensive catalogue of upgrade parts than pit stops, IF it came down to that choice.

 

[AlexWilmot]

Whether he's tried it is irrelevant to looking forward to upgrades being in PC3. I would definitrly rather have a more comprehensive catalogue of upgrade parts than pit stops, IF it came down to that choice.

Are you just out to look for an argument? the man wants upgrades to cars, forza can do that so I was merely asking if he had tried it

 

[Tool1312]

I see the faq isn't forthcoming

 

[Wolfe]

Same. But its nice to also see that implemented in a game with pCars driving dynamics, and if the track and car list is anything like Pcars2 its gonna be awesome to upgrade those cars.

That's the big thing. I'm expecting this game to really shine in its handling physics, elevating it above other games with similar features or gameplay.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Are you just out to look for an argument? the man wants upgrades to cars, forza can do that so I was merely asking if he had tried it

No but if wants to try Forza he can, I'm sure he's aware what Forza offers as everyone is. Doesn't mean project cars 3 cant offer it with its own flavour of gameplay.

 

[Sam714]

I see the faq isn't forthcoming

I wouldn't be too hopeful when it comes out it will be cherry picked questions, they won't want too much heat from anymore missing features. The questions will probably be mostly "wow this game looks great, does it have cars? YES it does! "

 

[Benny44]

@MagpieRacer @AlexWilmot I have tried Forza! I'm not an Xbox guy, but I did have a 360. I was a longtime 'Gran Turismo or nothing' kinda person until then. But Forza 4 is still quite possibly my favorite driving game ever. Engine swaps were something I hadn't seen in games before. That, combined with the livery editor, the marketplace and excellent online features made it great, to me.

You're right Magpieracer, I hope to see that combined with the much more advanced physics engine SMS has.

I know Assetto Corsa is kinda the holy grail around here, but I found it.....boring. It felt unfinished. The driving is outstanding. But not much in the way of options, livery editor, parts, etc. And the online, at least for PS4,was clunky. It's like a mad scientist who made a human perfectly. And then forgot to give it a personality. I'm not trying to pick on the game, just trying to show where I'm coming from in what I'm hoping for in PCars3. And why I'm cautiously optimistic

 

[sgohsixthree]

I know Assetto Corsa is kinda the holy grail around here, but I found it.....boring. It felt unfinished. The driving is outstanding. But not much in the way of options, livery editor, parts, etc. And the online, at least for PS4,was clunky. It's like a mad scientist who made a human perfectly. And then forgot to give it a personality. I'm not trying to pick on the game, just trying to show where I'm coming from in what I'm hoping for in PCars3. And why I'm cautiously optimistic

Completely true. And that's one reason I, and maybe so many others are disappointed by pCars3.

When pCars 2 came out we said:
It's good. But it doesn't drive as well as AC.
It's good. But GT Sport's graphics blow it away.
It's good. But the mulitplayer should be more like iRacing.

I think we were hoping pCars3 would be the game to finally get it all right.

 

[Benny44]

Completely true. And that's one reason I, and maybe so many others are disappointed by pCars3.

When pCars 2 came out we said:
It's good. But it doesn't drive as well as AC.
It's good. But GT Sport's graphics blow it away.
It's good. But the mulitplayer should be more like iRacing.

I think we were hoping pCars3 would be the game to finally get it all right.

As vocal as I've been in support, I'm pretty surprised they went this direction. I genuinely want pit stops. But, on the other hand, if they just tweaked Pcars3 and added a couple features it would have been easy.....or at least easier. So, the question is, why did they go in this direction? They must have something they really like and feel will work. Contrary to what most think, it's a pretty gutsy move. It may pan out for them. Or it may not. Nathan Bell hinted we'll get some more news tomorrow, though he didn't specify for sure if it is the FAQ

 

[Tool1312]

Don't get your hopes up for faq just yet.

Just had a interesting shall we call it exchange with him on PCars discord.
Here's a few excerpts....
I asked about magic tyres..

As the tyres aren't magic.....
They still interact with the environment
there's just no need to pit to change them
they adjust to the environment and weather
Resulting in no break in the action

Any weather condition, yes
You no longer choose the tyre compound
the game does that for you


@Tool1312 You'll never hear me call it magic. Automatic, sure. Magic? It's coded buddy. Nothing's magic or unpredictable. We know what's going to happen. We built it that way.

Then accused me of trolling and said faq closer to launch

Make of that what you will.

 

[Morgoth_666]

Annoying questions feel like trolling when you've been asked them four hundred times. Also of course the tone of a question is important. And of course crying "troll" to avoid people who want to talk about things you don't want to talk about isn't exactly a new tactic...

 

[slthree]

The moment it was announced that pitstops were a thing of the past I stopped following PC3

And, if you view my postings for the past two years you would quickly ascertain that I had, and still have, a strong love affair with PC2. I have also praised, thanked, and defended Ian Bell.

However, circumstances change.

Opinions cannot be wrong. I am now speaking in the strictest sense of definition of the word opinion. I’m speaking in legal terms. That said, there is a legal difference between an opinion and a fact. One of us says “I don’t think it’s sim because of this“ and another says “it is sim because of that“. Those are opinions that don’t have to be justified and would not be assailable in a court of law.

Now, if you strictly place this conversation in a legal arena, PC3 would not hold up as a simulation. I’m sorry for those who disagree but the experts that would be brought in on the subject would be from the auto racing industry and possibly a linguistics expert. That expert witness would explain what the word “simulation“ means and what criteria would have to be met for something to be a simulation.

The removal of tire wear and fuel depletion and pitstops would be the subject of cross and examination in court. If it can be established that those three things are essential across auto sport racing then it would follow that a simulation would have to have those things. Clearly, to establish that those three things are an essential aspect of auto racing, Racecar drivers and team owners and mechanics and those in the media who have covered the sport for many many years would all be called to testify. There would not be a single person from that group who would say those three items are not an essential part of the sport. Therefore, a simulation would have to have those three things.

A smart lawyer would say that SMS is, in effect simulating those three things, but doing them in an automatic fashion. Some would agree with that. But, a smarter lawyer would bring every one of those witnesses back on stand and ask them what exactly makes a pitstop an essential component of auto racing and do physical pitstops affect the outcome of an auto race? We all know that, definitively, the answer will be yes and you could have hundreds of hours of testimony on stories of real life situations and sim racing esport situations over many many years where a pit stop or pitstops were the difference in winning or losing a race or in gaining or losing position in overall standings.

PC3 May be a great game and it may be great fun for many people. And, some people may not need pitstops or tire wear or fuel depletion to enjoy the racing game. I think that’s fantastic for them.

Still, personal opinion or emotion does not alter the fact that the game, without those three things, is really NOT a simulation. Worse, still, is the fact that they double down on calling it a simulation by saying that it is even MORE sim than their previous titles, which is wholly indefensible.

I remain heartbroken over this decision they have made but I’m guessing they have done it to sell more games to more people and that’s what capitalism is all about. If any of us made a product and we stood to make money by selling that product, and we had an opportunity to sell it to X amount of people or quadruple that amount of people, wouldn’t we do the same?

 

[Sentry87]

Don't get your hopes up for faq just yet.

Just had a interesting shall we call it exchange with him on PCars discord.
Here's a few excerpts....
I asked about magic tyres..

As the tyres aren't magic.....
They still interact with the environment
there's just no need to pit to change them
they adjust to the environment and weather
Resulting in no break in the action

Any weather condition, yes
You no longer choose the tyre compound
the game does that for you


@Tool1312 You'll never hear me call it magic. Automatic, sure. Magic? It's coded buddy. Nothing's magic or unpredictable. We know what's going to happen. We built it that way.

Then accused me of trolling and said faq closer to launch

Make of that what you will.

I don't know what's more disappointing. The decision they made to remove these features or the way they're justifying these decisions trying to convince us it still simulates what happens in reality.

I'd feel much better about their decision if they called a spade a spade.. it's an arcade/casual solution to a problem that wasn't a problem in the first place. I mean... I still wouldn't be buying the game if they were to call it what it actually is, but I'd respect their decision at least. Now I have no respect.

 

[Mr Grumpy]

I do actually believe this is more to do with the name than the game.

Imagine GT sport being sold as GT7 instead of a spinoff title...

Imagine there was no Forza horizon & suddenly they presented that idea as a Forza motorsport product....

If they came out & said PC3 will not be out until next gen so we can deliver the best sim experience on all formats, however we have a spinoff title due out in August to encourage new racers into the world of Project Cars, we hope they'll enjoy it & look forward to moving up a step in their sim racing experience when Project Cars 3 becomes available early next year.

It'll be called Project Cars light/go/drive whatever

This will be a cut down version of the full Project Cars experience, it'll will keep all the best bits from a wide variety of cars & tracks with dynamic weather & time but there will be no need to worry about some of the full sim aspects that will be available in PC3, like pit stops & tyre degradation etc, so you can just enjoy the driving/racing & if you feel you fancy a bit more of this experience then we look forward to seeing you on track when PC3 is available.

I do think this would've gone down a lot better with a lot of people. The idea isn't that bad, it's a tried & tested formula that appeals to a lot of people.

It just shouldn't carry the PC3 name imho.

PC3 should have been.....
More tracks
More cars (certain groups filled out more)
More polished (locked 60fps, 4k, ffb, etc)
More weather settings (without going ott)
More cars on tracks (obviously track pending like PC1)
AI use the same tyre model as the player or the option to use the same simplified tyre model when racing against the AI.
Unscripted single player career (for replayability)
Custom championship (single & multiplayer)
Full race flags & rules (with safety cars)
Just more than PC2, nothing should be taken away.

 

[slthree]

If they came out & said PC3 will not be out until next gen so we can deliver the best sim experience on all formats, however we have a spinoff title due out in August to encourage new racers into the world of Project Cars, we hope they'll enjoy it & look forward to moving up a step in their sim racing experience when Project Cars 3 becomes available early next year

Perfectly stated! Extremely reasonable!

 

[Tool1312]

Plus I got the .....

@Tool1312 Again man I'm sorry if it's not the product for you.... There are many out there as you know. Maybe the next iteration will be the one for you. I would say though, give it a go. If you don't like it, refund it

@Tool1312 this really is the last time I'm gonna try. I was nothing but nice to you all night. I answered your questions. But after all that, you were opposed to the game. That's your right, but say so in a civil manner. You didn't, which is why I got annoyed.

At no time did I use foul language, just questioned the fuel, tyres,pitstops decision like a lot of people.

 

[Wolfe]

...the experts that would be brought in on the subject would be from the auto racing industry and possibly a linguistics expert. That expert witness would explain what the word “simulation“ means and what criteria would have to be met for something to be a simulation.

What does the word "simulation" mean?

The removal of tire wear and fuel depletion and pitstops would be the subject of cross and examination in court. If it can be established that those three things are essential across auto sport racing then it would follow that a simulation would have to have those things.

There's a gap there between "essential across auto sport racing" and "essential to a simulation" -- the association of "simulation" with motorsports or circuit racing, which doesn't apply to everyone.

PCARS3's tire model and the fixed fuel load are objectively a simpler simulation than that of PCARS2; there is no disputing this fact. Does that really mean the whole thing is no longer a simulation at all? Or is it more accurately just not what you look for in a racing simulator? Because that's perfectly understandable, of course.

 

[slthree]

What does the word "simulation" mean?


There's a gap there between "essential across auto sport racing" and "essential to a simulation" -- the association of "simulation" with motorsports or circuit racing, which doesn't apply to everyone.

PCARS3's tire model and the fixed fuel load are objectively a simpler simulation than that of PCARS2; there is no disputing this fact. Does it really cease to be a simulation at all? Or is it more accurately just not what you look for in a racing simulator? Because that's perfectly understandable, of course.

If it does not REPLICATE the multiple variables of a physically conducted pit stop, it is NOT a simulation

Anyone who knows racing more intimately than I do, can list the number of different things that make for a less than perfect pit stop. I will list five but there are thousands more

Robby Gordon Baja 500
Ferraris pitstop disaster two years ago in Bahrain
Team Jaguar British GP 2000
Lando Norris Nexican GP
Lewis Hamilton Japanese GP

it is not a simulation if they cannot duplicate pitstop errors. They might be able to get away with calling it an approximation but not a simulation

With so many drivers being equal, pitstops are sometimes the only drama we have left in Motorsports.

 

[Wolfe]

I don't think you're hearing (reading) me, @slthree. Why is a simulation without pitstop motorsports drama an "approximation"? What if you're simulating racing without pitting -- like rallycross, street racing, or autocross? What if you're simulating an open run-what-you-brung track day? What if you're simulating a Sunday drive, but on a closed course because it's a videogame? Can there only ever be "approximations" of anything not involving pitstops while lapping a circuit? Do you get me?

What if Project CARS 3 simulates driving a car, and you drive that car in simplified races that, unfortunately, have no pitstop drama...does PCARS3 not simulate driving a car? There is value in tire wear/temperature and fuel consumption in the simulation of driving a car, no doubt, but I don't think they are utterly essential elements in simulating driving a car. To reiterate: that is not a defense of SMS's decision.

 

[Zeitoss]

Plus I got the .....

@Tool1312 Again man I'm sorry if it's not the product for you.... There are many out there as you know. Maybe the next iteration will be the one for you. I would say though, give it a go. If you don't like it, refund it

@Tool1312 this really is the last time I'm gonna try. I was nothing but nice to you all night. I answered your questions. But after all that, you were opposed to the game. That's your right, but say so in a civil manner. You didn't, which is why I got annoyed.

At no time did I use foul language, just questioned the fuel, tyres,pitstops decision like a lot of people.

@Tool1312, evidently you have been a nuisance for him.
He thought he could get away with nice non-sense explanations, and he got annoyed by your perseverance.

My two cents, leave this game alone.
The next gen is literally behind the corner, I believe in few months from now we will forget PC3 and its magic (ops, no sorry "automatic") tires.

The next step will be the removal of the manual gear, only use the automatic gear.
Then the removal of braking, only accelerate and use automatic braking.
And here we go, with a perfect mobile game.

 

[greenlightning]

I think a lot of us would of been okay with just upgrading PC2 as it is, which is a good game.
More cars, race car classes, some more tracks.
A simplistic livery editor would be fine. Polish up things where you can, fine tune/adjustements to phyics, force feed back etc. Improve the A.I. especially with regards to the 1st lap. Then add better structure to the game, career mode, quick mode etc. I would also like to see a mini race event creater that is pretty wide open with respect to configuratiom of a race series.

Compared to some other Sims AC and even AMS2 the menus configuration in PC2 is pretty nice.

 

[slthree]

I don't think you're hearing (reading) me, @slthree. Why is a simulation without pitstop motorsports drama an "approximation"? What if you're simulating racing without pitting -- like rallycross, street racing, or autocross? What if you're simulating an open run-what-you-brung track day? What if you're simulating a Sunday drive, but on a closed course because it's a videogame? Can there only ever be "approximations" of anything not involving pitstops while lapping a circuit? Do you get me?

What if Project CARS 3 simulates driving a car, and you drive that car in simplified races that, unfortunately, have no pitstop drama...does PCARS3 not simulate driving a car? There is value in tire wear/temperature and fuel consumption in the simulation of driving a car, no doubt, but I don't think they are utterly essential elements in simulating driving a car. To reiterate: that is not a defense of SMS's decision.

Please enlighten all of us and show us the footage that SMS has made public where they are claiming to simulate those disciplines that you just listed.

I am unsure what your agenda is but you have done what most people who don’t have a good point do, they play the what if game as opposed to focusing on the facts at hand. You are not likely to find more than a handful of people who believe that a game without pitstops and a game without tire wear and a game of without fuel depletion is SIM.

 

[Sentry87]

I do actually believe this is more to do with the name than the game.

Imagine GT sport being sold as GT7 instead of a spinoff title...

Imagine there was no Forza horizon & suddenly they presented that idea as a Forza motorsport product....

If they came out & said PC3 will not be out until next gen so we can deliver the best sim experience on all formats, however we have a spinoff title due out in August to encourage new racers into the world of Project Cars, we hope they'll enjoy it & look forward to moving up a step in their sim racing experience when Project Cars 3 becomes available early next year.

It'll be called Project Cars light/go/drive whatever

This will be a cut down version of the full Project Cars experience, it'll will keep all the best bits from a wide variety of cars & tracks with dynamic weather & time but there will be no need to worry about some of the full sim aspects that will be available in PC3, like pit stops & tyre degradation etc, so you can just enjoy the driving/racing & if you feel you fancy a bit more of this experience then we look forward to seeing you on track when PC3 is available.

I do think this would've gone down a lot better with a lot of people. The idea isn't that bad, it's a tried & tested formula that appeals to a lot of people.

It just shouldn't carry the PC3 name imho.

PC3 should have been.....
More tracks
More cars (certain groups filled out more)
More polished (locked 60fps, 4k, ffb, etc)
More weather settings (without going ott)
More cars on tracks (obviously track pending like PC1)
AI use the same tyre model as the player or the option to use the same simplified tyre model when racing against the AI.
Unscripted single player career (for replayability)
Custom championship (single & multiplayer)
Full race flags & rules (with safety cars)
Just more than PC2, nothing should be taken away.

Ok, but they didn't do any of this. Even if they did say the next PCars would be the sim game we all want it wouldn't be the point. It's the fact that after the first gameplay footage was released they tried to reassure us that "all the sim goodness we want/expect is still in the game". But then weeks later, it turns out that is not the case and they were just blowing smoke.

They should have turned and said "Yeah guys, we decided to go in a different direction with PCars 3 as you can see. This may not be the game for you if you were expecting us to further refine the simulation aspect our Project Cars franchise, however we'd like to thank you for supporting the franchise these past 5 years maybe try Assetto Corsa Competizione if you still want "sim goodness".

 

[Zeitoss]

I don't think you're hearing (reading) me, @slthree. Why is a simulation without pitstop motorsports drama an "approximation"? What if you're simulating racing without pitting -- like rallycross, street racing, or autocross? What if you're simulating an open run-what-you-brung track day?

This would have been perfectly plausible, and let me add, intriguing as well, if no magic (ops, sorry again, automatic) tires were involved.

For example, a nice track day racing sim, where you bring the car and the tires that you have, you start racing/driving/cruising/whatever, and if it start raining you simply deal with it!

Meaning, you have to slow down and drive more carefully avoiding to push the cars to its limits.

Because the car keeps its original tires regardless of the weather.
This would have been much more realistic of certain track day conditions.

Do you realize that by SMS design choice, they have basically relegated the rain (or in general weather conditions rather than dry) to a mere cosmetic affair?

Because back to the bone, this is what they are clearly telling us that they have done.

 

[MagpieRacer]

What does the word "simulation" mean?


There's a gap there between "essential across auto sport racing" and "essential to a simulation" -- the association of "simulation" with motorsports or circuit racing, which doesn't apply to everyone.

PCARS3's tire model and the fixed fuel load are objectively a simpler simulation than that of PCARS2; there is no disputing this fact. Does that really mean the whole thing is no longer a simulation at all? Or is it more accurately just not what you look for in a racing simulator? Because that's perfectly understandable, of course.

I don't think you're hearing (reading) me, @slthree. Why is a simulation without pitstop motorsports drama an "approximation"? What if you're simulating racing without pitting -- like rallycross, street racing, or autocross? What if you're simulating an open run-what-you-brung track day? What if you're simulating a Sunday drive, but on a closed course because it's a videogame? Can there only ever be "approximations" of anything not involving pitstops while lapping a circuit? Do you get me?

What if Project CARS 3 simulates driving a car, and you drive that car in simplified races that, unfortunately, have no pitstop drama...does PCARS3 not simulate driving a car? There is value in tire wear/temperature and fuel consumption in the simulation of driving a car, no doubt, but I don't think they are utterly essential elements in simulating driving a car. To reiterate: that is not a defense of SMS's decision.

Exactly the points I've been trying to make as well. Its still simulating everything it needs to simulate to qualify as a sim. Some are dynamically simulated and some are in a static state of simulation but they are still being simulated regardless.

Nice to see someone else can see that.

Please enlighten all of us and show us the footage that SMS has made public where they are claiming to simulate those disciplines that you just listed.

I am unsure what your agenda is but you have done what most people who don’t have a good point do, they play the what if game as opposed to focusing on the facts at hand. You are not likely to find more than a handful of people who believe that a game without pitstops and a game without tire wear and a game of without fuel depletion is SIM.

Well RX was in PC2 and hasn't not been confirmed, street racing is clearly evident in the trailer and gameplay videos.

I still find it funny that just because someone can see the other side and is looking firward to seeing and hearing more about the game, they suddenly have an agenda, like its impossible to have a different opinion or view on the game.

As I say above, some variables may be fixed, like core temperature and tyre wear, but they are still correctly simulating the tyre physics, including the core temps, its just locked into a optimal state, the 3 layers of tyre around it will still heat and cool etc.

We're just more open minded to the approach than some i guess.