Project CARS 3 Developer Blog Explains New Tire Physics, Confirms Pit Stops Are History

[gregc]

OK, so that's buried it for me. The trailer set major alarm bells ringing, the Corvette video gave some hope, but this just cements that the direction they're taking is not for me no matter how good the underlying physics might be. It's not so much that I do loads of long races needing pitstops, I don't, but the wider implications that others have already mentioned. No damage? No point if it can't be repaired. Magical all-weather tyres that perform like slicks in the dry and wets when it rains? It's that or no variable weather, and magic tyres are about as not-a-sim as it gets.

Thing is, they keep banging on about "fun". They seem to have forgotten that for a lot of us, there is as much fun to be had in all the other bits of motorsport as the actual driving-fast-against-others.

For the record, I love pCARS2 - I wouldn't have 1100+ hours and counting in it if I didn't. The £100 I spent on a WMD2 membership all those years ago is probably the best £100 I ever spent, in terms of the enjoyment it gave me both during development and after release. Thiis just makes me sad as much as anything else.

pCARS3 was already a wait-and-see, now I'm just glad I bought AMS2 last week - there is at least still a proper, new sim to play based on the foundations I enjoy so much. I'm just sorry for my like-minded console buddies that are losing one of their few proper sim options going forward.

 

[MroczMR]

I’m so confused on how we’re expected to run endurance races. I’m hoping Ian chimes in soon to clarify the situation with pit stops. PLEASE!!!’

What to clarify? There are not there simple as that.

 

[NotMrJoker]

Here's a quote from Nathan Bell:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...-This-summer&p=1595875&viewfull=1#post1595875

Oh no, what did I just read? The compound changes automatically mid-race? How is this a Sim, at all?
I vaguely remember Formula One Arcade for the PS1 doing this. Jesus.

 

[Donnced]

Only one thing to say...

 

[Manasseh257NSX]

Here's a quote from Nathan Bell:
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...-This-summer&p=1595875&viewfull=1#post1595875

The difference with PC3 is - without Pitstops, the change in tyre compounds happens automatically. That doesn't mean you go from racing in a sunny environment to a wet environment and the car handles the same. Absolutely not. It just means you don't have to pit to put the wets on, therefore no break in the racing action. And from dry to wet you'll be able to feel the difference as always.

Excuse me?? I need to know who okay'd this idea..

I also need to know what other "Better Decisions" they made..

 

[csmirnoff]

Even the open wheel races on GTA V or F1 Race Stars have pitstops!

 

[gregc]

Magical all-weather tyres that perform like slicks in the dry and wets when it rains? It's that or no variable weather, and magic tyres are about as not-a-sim as it gets.

Lol. So as I was typing that, we got confirmation that magic tyres it is

 

[Bloodytears]

They said that some mystic sim racers who tested it, enjoyed this so much. I guess they will never go in public after this day.

 

[bleeder]

Not a deal-breaker for me as I tend to only do 8 or 10 lap quick races in pCARS but the 2 games have always been about options and customisation and to just flat out change it up like this is a real biggie.

Makes me wonder what other lovely surprises they have up their sleeves, although if their main focus is on better racing I look forward to seeing that in action. So we'll have the best AI in any racing game then please.

 

[Corsa]

I’m no conspiracy theorist, but getting that rushed feeling.

With new consoles releasing (probably 20 November) Forza 8 will most likely be a launch title. Gran Turismo, who knows.

Removing tire wear, fuel, and pit stops takes a lot off of a developers plate.

 

[evldave333]

I'm astonished SMS gave abandoned their customer base to readily.

Yes imagine wanting to survive as games developer and giving that up to sell to a tiny minority...

They ruined the game and showed a middle finger to their entire existing fan base by making these changes. I’m not sure if I even want to play project cars 2 anymore.

existing fan base... is the issue I dont think there is enough of you to keep the company afloat...

I always thought sim racing was going to expand in the next gen on console but now it really does feel like it's dead.
So that's it? Will the last person here shut off the lights. Lol.

Sim racing is so niche that its unsustainable it should be integrated into more user friendly titles so that it can continue, this might mean some compromises in the interim, but better that than no sim racing at all... You have capitalism to thank for this decision making, Im guessing if SMS sold off to codemasters they were struggling financially what can you do? At least this way the company survives to make more titles and hopefully sim racing will become a sustainable software type in the long run... I liken sim racing to underground music... its way better than pop music, but never makes money... so they go and crossover much to chagrin of the fans and make tons of money doing it...

 

[Scaff]

How will dynamic rain work then. Lets say I have a 10 lap race and on lap three heavy rain starts, how would I change from full slicks to rain tyres? Not a good move imo.

Holy crap so if you do a race with slicks, and it starts raining at any point you can't change to wets?

And what about damage? The website says you can do 24 hour races, so if something goes wrong you're SOL?

Magic tyres that change without you having to pit, I’m no ****ing ******** you at all, that’s how they are going to manage this with tyres than magically change compound without a pit stop.

I really wish I was joking, but I’m not.

 

[c172fccc]

Removing tire wear, fuel, and pit stops takes a lot off of a developers plate.

It sure does, I feel like this game will be a lot more polished.

 

[Bloodytears]

Yes imagine wanting to survive as games developer and giving that up to sell to a tiny minority...

You're right, but the problem is Project Cars only have this as real deal, because where they going to go - all of the flashy names and strong participants. Again is example GRID, that supposed to pull over GT Sport, Forza, and other games about racing. What happened you already know. Yet, on PC there is a lot of sims, and even there game like GRID didn't found its place. Currently, if this new game will not be a blast, they will loose every one. Better have some than none, you know it. And the most important, this foundation has been build on that minority in a first place, none of current audience participated in a creation of Project Cars 3.

 

[maximax]

Why do people request damages, oil change and brake fade in every sims or Gran Turismo iteration if they do not want to manage mechanical wear? Also, slick to wet tire compounds changing automatically mid-race sounds bizarre.

If they wanted to focus on tire heating up and racing without pit strategy, it could have been at least been an option. In a coming update maybe? If not, please let AMS2 get all the content and actual improvements from pCARS3 because we also want REALISM.

Thank you SMS for being transparent btw! I enjoyed PGR, pCARS2, DriveClub ; if only pCARS3 could be as beautiful as the recent NFS demo...

 

[FT-1]

It sure does, I feel like this game will be a lot more polished.

Seeing as SMS is currently at odds with its core fanbase, I would hope this game is a far more polished experience than Project CARS 2 was at release. The last hope for SMS is for this game to get good reviews from critics and day one bugs need to be at an absolute minimum for Project CARS 3 to score better than its predecessor (82-84 on Metacritic).

 

[GaLbaNoryes]

This is such a bizarre decision. I'd be fine if it was because of time or budget constraints, but if that was the case I'd also rather have them be honest about it rather than some weird "it's about simulating the driving experience" excuse.

Hell, Gran Turismo Sport arguably already achieved this vision of "pure racing without the annoying stuff". What market are they focusing on? The people that want a game that has the lack of accessibility of a sim without the actual sim elements?

 

[the_greeze]

...annnnnnddd, I'm out. What a crock of ****.

 

[davidt33]

I quite like this idea of no need for fuel change and tyre change. Two less things to worry about. As they said...focus more on the racing. I'm good with that.
What about damage though? Are the cars not going to suffer damage? And if so, following collisions, wouldn't there be a need to go to pits to fix whatever damage? And if there is no damage wouldn't that lead to reckless driving and bum rushing?

 

[Jezza819]

I think I've been through pitlane once in PC2 and that's because I spun into it at Watkins Glen and had to go through. So no pitstops are not a deal breaker for me but I can certainly understand it's been a huge part of the last two games for a lot of people and it sounds like a bizarre change to make.

 

[Mixolydian]

Well, I think it is actually good news. Imagine that you are a gamer at first and you like to drive a car too.
What are you gonna play? Need for Speed, Burnout or a game that pretents to be a sim?
If you choose the last, you are all alone in the world of racing, setting up cars, making strategies etc...
You like to drive like people IRL, but ofcourse you are not even close. You don't have a team build up around
you to support you with every aspect of racing. A team you can rely on when something goes wrong, who makes
decisions that makes you a better competitor and who takes you to the limit of your capabilities.
You don't have all of that. You are all alone and you have to know everything about specific setups, strategies and
decisions before, during and after the race.
Ofcourse there are some people who know that all, but the majority is not like that. They may think that they are
the new Michael Schumacher, but they simply are not. We can not all be that good in setting up cars making the right
decisions. Even a lot of people on iRacing buy setups from websites or just use other's setups. That is not a bad thing
at all. Tire wear and therefor making decisions is the same. What to do? Some may know and some not.
So, I think it's a good thing that PC3 helps you with that. So, you can do what you really like to do: race a racingcar
with hopefully good physics!!!

 

[MroczMR]

Well, I think it is actually good news. Imagine that you are a gamer at first and you like to drive a car too.
What are you gonna play? Need for Speed, Burnout or a game that pretents to be a sim?
If you choose the last, you are all alone in the world of racing, setting up cars, making strategies etc...
You like to drive like people IRL, but ofcourse you are not even close. You don't have a team build up around
you to support you with every aspect of racing. A team you can rely on when something goes wrong, who makes
decisions that makes you a better competitor and who takes you to the limit of your capabilities.
You don't have all of that. You are all alone and you have to know everything about specific setups, strategies and
decisions before, during and after the race.
Ofcourse there are some people who know that all, but the majority is not like that. They may think that they are
the new Michael Schumacher, but they simply are not. We can not all be that good in setting up cars making the right
decisions. Even a lot of people on iRacing buy setups from websites or just use other's setups. That is not a bad thing
at all. Tire wear and therefor making decisions is the same. What to do? Some may know and some not.
So, I think it's a good thing that PC3 helps you with that. So, you can do what you really like to do: race a racingcar
with hopefully good physics!!!

How this is a good option? If they could just make an option to turn it on/off like for example in... PCars 2? Then there are both sides happy.

 

[Wolfe]

Why on Earth isn't this scheme just a new function above and beyond "Automatic by Weather" for tires in setups? Implement it under the assists menu -- call it "Dynamic by Weather". We can already turn tire wear, fuel consumption, and damage off. This didn't need to be so drastic.

What could be wrong with doing it that way?

 

[Mixolydian]

How this is a good option? If they could just make an option to turn it on/off like for example in... PCars 2? Then there are both sides happy.

I am not arguing people who are disappointed in this decision. I can understand that. It's just my opinion. I like the daily races B over the daily races C in GT Sport, just for that reason.

 

[Sick Cylinder]

Well, I think it is actually good news. So, you can do what you really like to do: race a racingcar with hopefully good physics!!!

I agree with most of what you say.

I host series which only use default setups so I fully agree with you on making games more approachable and easier to use - most of the people I race with are mature in years and don't have the time or inclination to fiddle with setups. What I don't understand is the decision to remove the option of pit stops - to me that makes no sense! They could still have no tyre wear or fuel usage and have a pit stop option. It is needed in league racing for strategy and in long races to provide a comfort break - the absence of this option eliminates the game from consideration by league hosts - surely that can't be what SMSand @IanBell wanted?

 

[gregc]

I am not arguing people who are disappointed in this decision. I can understand that. It's just my opinion. I like the daily races B over the daily races C in GT Sport, just for that reason.

And isn't it great that you have option B, and those who like something different to you have option C? In those terms, this decision by SMS is the same as PD going "actually, we'll just remove option C". How is that a good thing?

 

[MroczMR]

I am not arguing people who are disappointed in this decision. I can understand that. It's just my opinion. I like the daily races B over the daily races C in GT Sport, just for that reason.

I prefer those with Pits to be honest. But as you see... Giving people an option to choose is never a bad thing. Getting rid of one of the choices is always bad thing...

 

[EleSigma]

I like my sims, I also like sim-cade games with career modes that give strategy and immersion like F1, WRC, Dirt Rally, etc.

PC3 seems to have just jumped from a (flawed) Sim, skipped sim-cade, skipped arcade, and went straight for Crusin' USA for the N64.

 

[Sick Cylinder]

Why on Earth isn't this scheme just a new function above and beyond "Automatic by Weather" for tires in setups? Implement it under the assists menu -- call it "Dynamic by Weather". We can already turn tire wear, fuel consumption, and damage off. This didn't need to be so drastic.

What could be wrong with doing it that way?

Nothing - unfortunately they didn't have your wise head to guide them - presumably some bad decisions were made while working from home during the Coronavirus outbreak!

 

[sayba2th]

@IanBell

An impassioned plea from one of the many P Cars core customer base.

Ian, Now would be an ideal time for you to address a lot of the people who have supported SMS from the get go and shelled out for the two prior releases you have delivered thus far. (Personally both games pre ordered and deluxe pcars 2)

As many here who have purchased both, I was greatly looking forward to the third installment to see where you were going to take this series but now I am not so sure. Remember that your core audience are "sim" peeps but yet you are now removing a core element that represents that - pit stops and tyre wear. Why you would not have the option to disable that side of the game if you are trying to attract the casual player has, if you read through this thread, left most of us scatching our heads?

If you are making a spiritual successor to Shift then just make Shift *whatever you want to call it*. If you are making PCars 3 then please make it that and do the francise the justice it deserves. I strongly urge you and the team at SMS to roundtable ASAP and reconsider this which comes across as a poor and hastily made decision. Stop with the cash grab and move the date out and address this game as what PC3 should actually be. Feel free to make it accessible to a wider audience by all means but don't do that at the expense of your core base of customers that helped to get you guys to where you are today.

Some have alluded to this already and I will speak further on this as it appears you guys are underestimating your client base here. We are smarter than you seem to have given us credit for. This really is rushing to get the game out for the sake of the almighty dollar at the expense of your target audience. it's a glaring oversight and saying anything less is like trying to sneak the ball into the back of the net when you think no one is watching. It makes you guys come across as being ignorant and greedy by serving up a half baked cake and trying to call it by any name other than what it truly is. I am too old to not see the old okie doke that is attempting to be pulled here. Like Hall and Oates once said I can't go for that.

Please do the right thing here, address and fix this situation by at least patching this into the game after release and make sure you advise us the fans that this is something you will do in due course so that many of us will rethink our decision to purchase it or risk PCars going the way of the dinosaur.

Sincerely

Damien