Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC

[Bloodytears]

@Bloodytears the GT class is Tier 7.
You can grind to get there or unlock it with credits (32.500)
190E : R496 PIR
Carrera RSR : R458
924 : R494

For comparison, i'm in tier 1 and at the third event and have my Skyline at R294 with 127.258 credits so i could open the GT class and buy one of those cars.
Played about 3 hrs...

Thank you kindly! Sounds good.

 

[breyzipp]

Gave the game a try tonight and wow, the initial 4 races of Road E in the Toyota GT 86 were fun! I didn’t even mind the cornering icons (I hated them when the game was revealed), it even becomes a goal to rake those up during a race. Great handling on a controller although it’s not Dirt Rally 2.0 yet in that aspect. I was absolutely impressed by the livery editor too, normally I don’t waste any time with them because way too time consuming and I don’t care to line up shapes for hours. But the PC3 version basically does what Dirt 4 did and improves on it a lot! My tuned Toyota GT 86 already looks impressive from my first livery tryout.

Seems to run very smooth on the X1X in graphical mode as well, I saw 1 small stutter on Bannochbrae on 1 lap but it didn’t occur there any other lap. Haven’t tried performance mode yet, thought I’d start with resolution mode but so far I don’t see a reason to swap yet.

The game sure has been Codemastered with XP and credits added to career. But honestly I don’t mind, it feels more rewarding this way and it’s already a lot better than GRID 2019.

However, one downside is this “Draft an opponent for 5 seconds and then overtake” bullet point on Mojave Desert. I must have tried this 10 times or so and this seems impossible to do. Absolutely annoying goal as well! I can see “drafting” on top my my screen for split seconds but it gets interrupted by cornering, clean lap, overtaking (other car while I draft “my” car) and all that similar stuff. These bullet points are fun to do on the side, I don’t mind having to redo a race 2 or 3 times if I miss one. But seriously, they should never become a frustration!

Edit - aah yes, in context of that last point, why on earth when I restart a race after it has been finished am I not getting XP and credits? It’s not only frustrating already having to try (and fail) 10 races for that drafting nonsense, it’s even more annoying having to COMPLETELY exit and rejoin a circuit between every attempt unless you want XP and credit loss. By the way, ticked off bullet points do carry over between restarts, I don’t see why credits and XP shouldn’t.

Edit 2 - 2 lap rat races in career mode to go from last place to first are so NOT fun...

Edit 3 - opponents coming to stick to the player with superglue slowing both cars down is absolutely annoying!

Edit 4 - this perfect cornering thing is very inconsistent. An AI driver bumps into me and it prevents me from getting the perfect corner, not fun! Not that I would mind at all in previous PC games, but if you add these bullet points to the UI and reward XP to them, then I sure want to complete them

 

[Konan]

The drafting thing has been reported...

 

[breyzipp]

The drafting thing has been reported...

Added a few more things to my previous post I would like to report.

 

[Wolfe]

I find the game communicates the car's behavior to the player in very clear ways. It's easy to understand the relationship of power to oversteer/understeer and how to correct either condition. If there are back end assists working that's OK to me, as the feel is good and communicative. When handling a car well, I know how I'm managing that and when the car crashes or I commit to a mistake, I understand why and can correct that. I don't mind the helping hand because we're translating a facsimile of real-world performance to a gamepad thus some elements of the input/output behavior have to be tweaked to make the controls palatable. I find that the cars work in ways I expect i.e. if I drive on the grass I expect the car to be pulled towards the wheel in the grass, and the game does that. I can balance the car's weight easily with a combination of on-throttle and brake input. Slides are easy to catch, as they're intuitive to understand why they occur, how to cause them, and how to correct. Overall, it's a fun and engaging experience on the gamepad, and one I find rewarding as the vehicles feel pretty lively but in a way that is expected and intuitive. Someone earlier in the thread stated that Forza's driving model is very understeer-y and that is exactly how I feel. To me that doesn't translate as accurate or very fun (two very different things in my mind btw -- you can have both or one or the other depending on the intent of the product).

I think what's important to know is that high performance vehicles such as powerful cars or airplanes are genuinely easier to control than one would imagine. The difficulty is controlling them well in a repeatable, consistent fashion. Difficulty does not equal realism in most cases.

Overall, I think PC3 is a fun game that drives exceedingly well for gamepad users. It's rewarding, intuitive, and most importantly very fun tossing cars around or shaving tenths off a lap. I would say it's more engaging than a Forza 7 and a lot more lively than a GT Sport, which I felt was very muted. For the wheel users, I don't know how that translates for you.

I appreciate your perspective. I expect my experience with the game to be much the same, based on everything I have seen and read. Intuitive, rewarding, engaging handling physics is my top priority with a sim. What I'm really interested in is driving, not so much fiddling with brake ducts or pit strategies just to survive a quick one-off race without cold tires, overheated tires, or a botched tire change. The extra details are great to have, but not so enjoyable if it's on the player to micromanage them with clunky interfaces and setups for every permutation.

The experience you described with slides, balancing the car on the throttle and brakes, and lively handling while tossing cars around is the whole reason I play sims. The fact that most sims on the more serious end of the scale are circuit-based motorsports sims is just a coincidence. I dislike the exclusive association of "sim" with motorsports.

It sounds like PCARS3 may indeed be watered down a bit from PCARS2, but PCARS2 was not a totally solid experience, either. Although most cars were controllable enough, only the better cars in its roster were at all rewarding to me. I hope I find with PCARS3 myself that the gains have outweighed the losses. I also hope it's in a bit better shape and offers some requested options when I get to it in September.

I was the one who made the comment about Forza, by the way. I'm also familiar with X-Plane -- a really fun and lively flight sim to play around in.

...That's one thing I would love to see in racing sims -- the influence of wind as a factor. I would imagine that would be difficult to communicate to a player though without a visual HUD element or a competent force feedback wheel.

Live for Speed simulates gusting wind. I don't know of any others.

 

[Konan]

Added a few more things to my previous post I would like to report.

You know where the forum is
There's a thread for reporting bugs.

 

[breyzipp]

You know, after playing a bit more, the contradiction of goals within races in career mode is something I really start to dislike. That contradiction is as follows:

* on one side you want to race clean, follow the perfect lines, line up those perfect corners to get those bullet points ticked off.

* on the other side, you start in 14th place for example on a narrow track like Oulton Park and have 2 laps to brutally force yourself to podium or first place. Failing to do so means no credits and no podium/first place finisher bullet point. To achieve this goal, everything from my first point is completely thrown into the water and I need to drive very aggressive to push the AI out of the way so I can get that podium finish of first place.

combining those 2 points together means it seems I have to do most races 2 times now, the first time to force myself to first place, the second race to tick off the remaining bullet points. I just did SUGO twice this way, first time to win and push the AI out of the way. But due to perfect corner inconsistency i had to do the race again, I let all AI pass me from the start so they don’t annoy me while I do my corners, then from last place I focus on my corners. This is not the most fun way to play a racing game career mode, but those 2 contradictions kinda force me to do it this way.

Something is really off about this game in regards to the fine balance between the amount of cars on track, the amount of laps to do, and the type bullet point goals attached to a race. Take that 2 lap Oulton park race for example. If it would be a race with 6 cars instead of 26 (14th start), then getting first place would be doable. Or else, if a bullet point would be something like “improve your starting place by 5 positions”, that would be feasible as well.

Anyway I summed up quite a bit of negative feedback in 2 posts now but overall I really do like the core of the game, I’m absolutely pleasantly surprised! And all the negative points I mentioned I think can be fixed with updates without to much effort (I think).

 

[PJTierney]

I went through all the lobby options I could find, here’s what’s there for those interested:

https://gameclips.io/PJTierney/acee2c4e-3bd5-4a16-8deb-33cd9631dcaf

 

[Zeitoss]

You know, after playing a bit more, the contradiction of goals within races in career mode is something I really start to dislike. That contradiction is as follows:

* on one side you want to race clean, follow the perfect lines, line up those perfect corners to get those bullet points ticked off.

* on the other side, you start in 14th place for example on a narrow track like Oulton Park and have 2 laps to brutally force yourself to podium or first place. Failing to do so means no credits and no podium/first place finisher bullet point. To achieve this goal, everything from my first point is completely thrown into the water and I need to drive very aggressive to push the AI out of the way so I can get that podium finish of first place.

combining those 2 points together means it seems I have to do most races 2 times now, the first time to force myself to first place, the second race to tick off the remaining bullet points. I just did SUGO twice this way, first time to win and push the AI out of the way. But due to perfect corner inconsistency i had to do the race again, I let all AI pass me from the start so they don’t annoy me while I do my corners, then from last place I focus on my corners. This is not the most fun way to play a racing game career mode, but those 2 contradictions kinda force me to do it this way.

Something is really off about this game in regards to the fine balance between the amount of cars on track, the amount of laps to do, and the type bullet point goals attached to a race. Take that 2 lap Oulton park race for example. If it would be a race with 6 cars instead of 26 (14th start), then getting first place would be doable. Or else, if a bullet point would be something like “improve your starting place by 5 positions”, that would be feasible as well.

Anyway I summed up quite a bit of negative feedback in 2 posts now but overall I really do like the core of the game, I’m absolutely pleasantly surprised! And all the negative points I mentioned I think can be fixed with updates without to much effort (I think).

This is really annoying and shows COMPLETE lack of design, testing and quality control.

Forza 7 has the same exact problem in the Career, forcing you to win races starting from the back, in three laps.
The only way to do that is to push away the AI.

And then, people complain of races online full of rammers.
Surely, the game prompts you to do from the beginning.

 

[Northstar]

The only way to do that is to push away the AI.

There's also the option of changing the length of the race, something it seems SMS should have done with PC3.

 

[Matt Stephens]

Really hope they can add adjustable race lengths and possibly a qualifying mode in subsequent patches for the game (even if it was just a one shot quali lap similar to Grid 2019).

Sounds like the pad handling is definitely the main strong-point for the game but graphically looks horrendous (from the console footage I’ve seen anyhow, crazy how much better the original Project Cars looks on base PS4). if they can drastically improve the visuals and aliasing with patches then I think it could definitely be a solid game but definitely appears a very mixed bag at the moment.

 

[Zeitoss]

There's also the option of changing the length of the race, something it seems SMS should have done with PC3.

Yeah, but not many people may see or use the option, as it is hidden in one of the menus.
Even myself, and I played Forza for long, I found it out only after a while (and because I read it from a forum).

Imagine if they were designing a Career mode like that you start as a driver of an amateur Racing Garage, building up your path, but keeping an eye on finances. So for example, at the end of the race the damage you have taken needs to be repaired and costs some money.

To the point that, if you destroy your car too many times, you need to re-do the championiship at the end, and you cannot move upward in the Tiers.
Or, on the opposite side, to get the best cars you need to drive clean and save as much money as needed.

This, combined with the idea that you don't need to win at any costs. But even a fourth or fifth position (out of twenty) is a good achievement, and grants you some sponsors.

Dirt Rally 2 has already something like this in place.

All games I played in the last 10 years have such anonymous Career modes, with small and insifignicant variations to each other, and an empty of progression (race after race, but no sense of story behind).
The last truly enjoyable game with a good and immersive Career mode was Toca Race Driver for Xbox, almost 20 years ago.

 

[IfAndOr]

I went through all the lobby options I could find, here’s what’s there for those interested:

Thanks, I wondered what was available. It's slicker than PC2 but there are less options. The weather settings are particularly reduced, you used to be able to go from dry to wet and back to dry again! Or random even. The penalties seem a bit vague too, on or off, again missing various options.

And still no text chat it seems. I wonder if there is voice chat?

 

[GTsimms]

Cool, that helps. Too late in the day to get on the wheel but I’ll give it a go tomorrow.

Any car/track will do, or should I get into something like a Formula Ford?

You can try it on the Formula Ford.

I probably needed to update. I use the Sparco Rally Mod add-on and I lowered it to 60, afterwards.

IIRC PC2 Recommended by Fanatec was 100/60/50/50. So, it seems to be the same but the tire model works better to me.

I messaged Yorkie and he said that he was using 55. But, it felt a little light to me. I think around 60 seems to be good with the Thrustmaster Control panel at 1080 deg, 75 gain, and 100/100/0/0.

 

[Zeitoss]

Seems to run very smooth on the X1X in graphical mode as well, I saw 1 small stutter on Bannochbrae on 1 lap but it didn’t occur there any other lap. Haven’t tried performance mode yet, thought I’d start with resolution mode but so far I don’t see a reason to swap yet.

This is confirmed also by MotoGamesTV streams, both Graphics and Framerate modes run at 60fps with some occasional drops, and apparently same resolution (not sure which one is) and details.

I am looking at some videos for the X1X and it does not look that bad.

However, there is a comparison video of the Corvette C8R at Brands Hatch Rain conditions, between PC3 and Grid 2019.
And PC3 looks so flat in color depth and reflections compared to Grid.
But again, I would take with a grain of salt video comparison among different titles.

More interesting are the videos from Scaff comparing PC1 / PC2 / PC3, which share the same (similar at least) complexity of the physics model.

Guess the only way is waiting on Friday, and judge by myself.

 

[Benny44]

Thanks for going through that @PJTierney - I was wanting to know those details. Glad you can do same PIR range. When it says range, do you know if that means basically same class? Or is it within a range of PIR points of yiur car?

 

[Senna52]

Yeah, but not many people may see or use the option, as it is hidden in one of the menus.
Even myself, and I played Forza for long, I found it out only after a while (and because I read it from a forum).

Imagine if they were designing a Career mode like that you start as a driver of an amateur Racing Garage, building up your path, but keeping an eye on finances. So for example, at the end of the race the damage you have taken needs to be repaired and costs some money.

To the point that, if you destroy your car too many times, you need to re-do the championiship at the end, and you cannot move upward in the Tiers.
Or, on the opposite side, to get the best cars you need to drive clean and save as much money as needed.

This, combined with the idea that you don't need to win at any costs. But even a fourth or fifth position (out of twenty) is a good achievement, and grants you some sponsors.

Dirt Rally 2 has already something like this in place.

All games I played in the last 10 years have such anonymous Career modes, with small and insifignicant variations to each other, and an empty of progression (race after race, but no sense of story behind).
The last truly enjoyable game with a good and immersive Career mode was Toca Race Driver for Xbox, almost 20 years ago.

The TOCA series has the best career of any console racing games ever. The story was fun, the progression was great, and the breadth of series to race in isn’t matched, even still, by anything other than iRacing.

I spend most of my racing time in iRacing (and some GT for fun, photos, painting, etc), but every now and then I’ll fire up the PS2 and play TOCA. Such a great game.

 

[Nacho Libre]

So the Fiorano track only opens when you pick a Ferrari? Did PC2 did this too?

 

[Jezza819]

So the Fiorano track only opens when you pick a Ferrari? Did PC2 did this too?

Yes it does I think. It's been a long time since I've driven that track but I think you have to pick a Ferrari to use it.

 

[imported_rik19]

To the guys who have this already, have you got the day one patch yet or is that not available yet, also those corner markers and stuff like that, you can turn them off?? or not...

 

[MroczMR]

That moment when you are upgrading Fuel Injection in an Electric Car...

 

[MagpieRacer]

To the guys who have this already, have you got the day one patch yet or is that not available yet, also those corner markers and stuff like that, you can turn them off?? or not...

Yeah day 1 patch was live pretty early on. The corner markers can be turned off in the assists menu.

Most visual things can be turned off except motion blur. However I have found reducing the camera shake also reduces the motion blur as it seems to bd dynamic based on movement. Less camera movement. Less motion blur. So if anyone is struggling with the motion blur, turn camera and hud shake down or off.

 

[Konan]

To the guys who have this already, have you got the day one patch yet or is that not available yet, also those corner markers and stuff like that, you can turn them off?? or not...

Yes you can turn those off.
As for the day one patch, all systems had the 30GB one but Xbox had an additional patch (3GB)
So Xbox is now on version 1.03 while ps4 is still on 1.02.
Pc i'm not exactly sure...

 

[Bloodytears]

The last truly enjoyable game with a good and immersive Career mode was Toca Race Driver for Xbox, almost 20 years ago.

Try Prostreet, it is the 10 years old game that made all what you wanted and made all what Project Cars 3 tried 10x times better.

 

[MroczMR]

Random Callsign was very optimistic about Project Cars 3 and after playing it he end up hating it. Well... That is another person whose point of view I respect.

SimRacing604 also did firs impressions and also didn't like it

 

[PJTierney]

Thanks, I wondered what was available. It's slicker than PC2 but there are less options. The weather settings are particularly reduced, you used to be able to go from dry to wet and back to dry again! Or random even. The penalties seem a bit vague too, on or off, again missing various options.

And still no text chat it seems. I wonder if there is voice chat?

Bear in mind this is Xbox; I haven’t looked at PC options yet.

You can try it on the Formula Ford.

I probably needed to update. I use the Sparco Rally Mod add-on and I lowered it to 60, afterwards.

IIRC PC2 Recommended by Fanatec was 100/60/50/50. So, it seems to be the same but the tire model works better to me.

I messaged Yorkie and he said that he was using 55. But, it felt a little light to me. I think around 60 seems to be good with the Thrustmaster Control panel at 1080 deg, 75 gain, and 100/100/0/0.

I’ll give that a go as a base, and do some research, thanks

Thanks for going through that @PJTierney - I was wanting to know those details. Glad you can do same PIR range. When it says range, do you know if that means basically same class? Or is it within a range of PIR points of yiur car?

I don’t know right now, didn’t try in great detail to find out.

 

[Scaff]

So the Fiorano track only opens when you pick a Ferrari? Did PC2 did this too?

It did indeed, its a requirement of the licence from Ferrari.

 

[Maskmagog]

@PJTierney: Ah, that was on console? So we get to name the lobbies, and set passwords? That wasn't possible in PC2 if I recall? Good news.
Here's a nice video of the Alpine, looks superb.

 

[PJTierney]

Ah, that was on console?

Yes, Xbox.

 

[Boxout]

I don't understand how the economy in this game works, like you only get money when you level up? So is there a level cap? Because if that's the case then the amount of credits you can get is a finite amount.