Project R

[MoparMike]

Mr. Latte, I've been following this project for a while and its good to see it going together.

I will share some of my experience with sub woofer enclosures since you welcomed it, and having built a number of them for car audio applications, I hope it is of some help.

Sealed enclosures are known for producing tight, high sound quality bass. The focus is to get the most sound from the air moving from the front cone of the speaker. To do this the internal volume of the enclosure is aimed to be at the point where the speaker can move the most air without over extending, in other words much like a good shock on a car, the dampening controls the maximum excursion. Uncontrollable speaker excursion produces distortion.

Ported boxes on the other hand are commonly used to get the most out of a speaker by emitting sound waves from both the front and back side of the speaker's cone. The port is tuned by its length and width inside the enclosure to achieve maximum results, so if you are trying to do this research the recommended tuned Hz of your speaker and build your port to match. Ported enclosures don't always sound as good as sealed, but they are usually louder and therefore don't have to be pushed as hard either. The size of the enclosure is typically larger in size than that of a sealed enclosure.

 

[Mr Latte]

Greeze, saying nothing, haa haa.

Right what we have here is the underside of the "Buttkicker EVO" base component from GamePod. I modified this to attach to my Cobra seat mounts.

The rubber isolators are "GAMEPODS" own and really while okay I think they are charging more for these than they are worth. Ebay has very similar looking ones "Engine Mount Isolators" for much less although I cant confirm their quality. These will attach to the seat runners. Although this picture only shows the BKA 300 that I will run from the LFE, I currently have 3x Mini Buttkicker LFE models for L/C/R attached underneath also. Had to use "Mini LFE Buttkickers" as they are smaller size and just about fit in.

Need to build my seat mount and looking to test a few more ideas to determine what is the best final configuration for the seats tactile and get those subs working well. Im not prepared after all this time to take for granted any given idea that I have had will just be fine and run with it. Testing will put to bed a few options I still want to try and get the best optimal setup from the installation options available so opinions and ideas from anyone with experience are appreciated.

MoparMike thanks...
The enclosure for the 12" sub may only be approx 17.5" square x 6" Deep.
Should I use any materials inside the enclosure to help improve its sound and chances of avoiding distortion?
Appreciate your thoughts...

 

[Mr Latte]

Today I spent some time working at the smaller "25mm Chrome Tubing" surround that will be mounted on the top of the wooden base. This is really just a style feature of the design thats going to highlight the actual cockpit frame which uses thicker "32mm Chrome Tubing". This surround is only 10cm (approx 4" high).

Below shows how this goes together and I started doing a mockup/practice for the cockpit entrance section.
The positioning is not final, just testing.

I want to have this mounted onto the base before the audio testing of the subwoofers to ensure their are no problems with annoying vibrations. Both this 25mm and the much larger 60mm side tubing have to be stepped over to enter/exit the cockpit. I have a bit of a concern how awkward this will be once the main cockpit frame is also added.

 

[bigbembem]

are you going to use this type of tubes and connections for the whole frame?
it looks fantastic!👍

 

[MoparMike]

Mr. Latte, for the enclosure, use silicon sealant where the walls meet so that you don't have any leaks. Small gaps that air can escape though will make a whistling noise. Also, are you using any sound deadening material like Dynamat or FattMat? Lining the inside of the enclosure with something like that will cut down vibration in your rig and focus the sound in the direction you want rather than down into the rig and floor. Less vibration and noise will give you better sound. Both of the products I mentioned come on a roll and are cut to size, but there are also products that can be sprayed on.

Build a sample box and test out the performance before and after using the sound dampening materials. You should see a positive result with them.

 

[Mr Latte]

Looking inside my dual 12" subwoofer box...
So this is what the silicone is for.

(Edit) I ended up buying a tube anyways.

 

[Mr Latte]

....

Got the "Plastic Port Holes" for the subs.
So if I covered the walls and bottom of the sub sections with Fattmatt it will help reduce the vibrations and improve the sound.

Could you recommend a cheap tool for cutting out the holes for the subs. I dont have a router and not wanting to spend a lot of money on a tool that is only needed for a few holes.

are you going to use this type of tubes and connections for the whole frame?
it looks fantastic!👍

Yes, just read and look back a bit.

 

[jswilli1]

Got the "Plastic Port Holes" for the subs.
If I covered the walls and bottom of the sub sections with Fattmatt would I really need the silicone?

Could you recommend a cheap tool for cutting out the holes for the subs. I dont have a router and not wanting to spend a lot of money on a tool that is only needed for a few holes.


Yes, just read and look back a bit.

Latte,

I would use a Drill Bit and a jig saw if you have one. Drill a hole large enough to put the jigsaw blade in and cut the hole. You can make a template first or use a plate to draw the hole for the sub. Better yet a nail/screw and a piece of string with a pencil will work better. Put the nail/screw in the center where you want the sub, Cut the string to the desired Diameter (where the sub will sit flush afte hole is cut), and tie the string on the end and Draw your line to cut!

 

[360hype]

I can't wait to see the finished product! Nice massive rig! 👍

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi jswilli,

Yeah it may be that using a jigsaw is the simplest way to do it. The subs come with a template. I may need new boarding for the top because of the centre sub as currently it will need cut through the L/C/R boarding. Need to look at this for options and may include a secondary board to raise the subs a little more.

Originally when purchased last year I had approx 20mm boarding for the top but only 10mm for the bottom.
I may now get more and not use the thinner boarding on the bottom.

More updates / photos later today...

 

[Dan_]

God! I've been absent from your thread for a long time and it is still being built.

Apparently, the long build time is plainy justified by the excellent craftsmanship. Well done, it's a joy look at the chrome structures.

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi Dan, yes this will be like a good wine...
I can tell you its nice feeling putting the ideas/plans into action.
Do love also how when building you get new inspiration and improve on the original planned idea. It has happened with several things so far.

Regards physical construction yeah, expect to see more in these recent updates than over the past year.

Okay so earlier I mentioned using bolts for connecting section A & B

These are 8mm x 100mm long

Have three in place so far but will drill 2x more when these are connected.
The two base sections should then be rock steady.

Section B with the top on. I need to cut out a section to allow those big chrome tubes to be visible.

I've left a small gap for possible movement / expansion and will likely use the silicone on the inside to seal this.
The subwoofer holes need to be cut but Im looking now at adding a new shaped layer on top

One of the Subwoofer "Port Holes" and a suitable drill bit. I am likely going to have the port hole exhaust on the underneath flooring. Also purchased 20ft of the "FattMatt" insulation material. Cost me £73 so this better be good but it will be a few days before it arrives.

Here is the awkward area I started with for attaching the 60mm chrome side poles.
It is still possible to get my fingers in to tighten this end.

This bracket will help secure it in place and offer more support to the wooden structure.

At the front end as mentioned earlier it is a simple M8 thread.
I had to leave enough room at each end for the "Black Acrylic" finish that will be glued to the wood.


Also ordered some "Knock-In 'Woodfit' inserts (also known as 'Dynafix' inserts)" for attaching the feet shown earlier.
Thats it for now, another update later tonight...

 

[Jav]

So good to see progress being made on this amazing project! Keep it up man!

 

[Mr Latte]

So while this is still not completed it is close to giving you a general idea.
The base is now very heavy, solid and to this point is about 30hrs work.

Hope you enjoy these anyways.

A & B now bolted, so far the 3x Bolts seem fine.

It is all going to plan quite well so far.

An early idea was to have the wooden top cover over the large 60mm poles like this.

However I preferred them being shown so will cut these later and with the lighting they should look great.
Additional middle support for the 25mm section up top.

Another look at it here on the other side.

WRX front wing trial for position, will fit inside the surround tubing no problems.

Only now will things start to get interesting, mmmmm.

The main cockpit tubing will be inline with the tips, of the WRX spoiler.

Just a teasing glimpse for now.

Im happy I decided to go for the "Double Barrell" effect for the main frame.
The step over is still a concern but although not hard to step on/off it has the possibility of needing care not to trip.



Thats it for a while guys...

 

[Mr Latte]

Im looking to do one side of the cockpits 10" subwoofer section with this along with the silicone and subwoofer port as advised by you friends. Can then compare how one side is against the other without and post the results here. Im a bit sceptical how much of an improvement it might make in audible improvements.

Although I have purchased enough of this to cover all subwoofers for the base. I am sure it will help with the major problem of unwanted irrating vibrations being controlled. This is a must objective, so fingers crossed.


Any other recommendations?

Fatmat eXtreme
Info:

Rubberized Compound-Fatmat sound deadener has a rubberized compound that is fused with a 1 mil Acrylic PSA "Pressure Sensitive Adhesive" Backing. This is the barrier used to absorb the nasty noises you don't want to hear (Rattles, Road Noise, Ect). The PSA backing is strong and very effective in keeping your mat where you want it. Unlike other products on the market with Fatmat you will not need any heating guns or other tools to install it, it's made to form and fuse to just about any surface possible, and it adheres better than any other mats on the market as our customers all agree. The last thing you want is for your mat to fall off in a week after you worked so hard installing it right? The nightmares of using other brand mats would make anyone wish they had used fatmat first.
Aluminum Layer-This is a 3 mil aluminum constraining layer fused to the top of the rubberized compound. Using this layer allows our product to become thinner, lighter yet more effective than other deadeners on the market.
Paper Release Liner-Our paper release liner is a waxed paper for easy release. It's so simple to install, simply peel and apply. And being that you don't need those hot messy heating tools to warm up our product first your install just become fun and easy.
Damping vibrations with Fatmat

Fatmat Sound Deadener is made to absorb the vibrations and noises that travel through it, giving you a dramatic reduction in irritating noises. Applying Fatmat to quiet vibrations can result in as much as a 3 dB gain in sound. This result means that your music would sound twice as loud, as if you'd doubled your amplifier power!

Fatmat sheets are simple to cut, so you can apply them in all the odd-shaped nooks and crannies in your vehicle. Fatmat comes in a variety of kits and bulk packs so you can get the most appropriate pieces of Fatmat for each part of your car, with little waste of material or money.

 

[MoparMike]

The improvements are two fold when using sound deadening materials. On one hand, less of the sound waves will be transferred into the frame you are building so there could be ~1-3db of an improvement in volume. On the other hand, since you are lessening the vibration that could be created, which is audible, your speakers won't have to overcome that unwanted sound. In other words, they will sound louder and have more clarity.

I have had great results when using FatMat in my cars. The first time around it was for the inside of a box holding two 12" subs and the improvements were mainly in cutting down the vibration in the enclosure itself, and the speaker sounded much cleaner. With the next truck I bought, the interior was completely removed from the cab down to the dash board and every surface was covered with at least one layer of FatMat. After that a 4000w system went in and it was the loudest I have had yet. There is no doubt in my mind that that system was louder because all I heard was the speakers, not the sound of the truck being shaken apart and everything else rattling.

 

[Mr Latte]

So Mike, should I do the bottom and side walls only or do the complete inside?

Thanks for the help btw.

To go with the triple screens, Im keeping an eye on this releasing in the UK around August/September.
Hopefully it will be close £600 - £650. It seems though one of the best entry level options to enjoy 3D at a budget.

This could provide a 60" screen from only 3ft projection distance.
The idea is to have a 60" - 65" screen about 40" from the centre of the seat.
A screen could be placed in front of the multi-monitors with the monitors pushed as far back as possible.

Link

 

[MoparMike]

I would do the complete inside. Line the interior walls and floor of your enclosures and cover the underside of what will be the floor of your rig to cut down on vibration throughout.

Its too bad you are across the pond, as I would love to see the rig in action when it is finished, guess I'll have to settle for pics.

I had built a PVC rig based off of Simul8tr's design but am currently planning an arcade style dedicated cabinet and have been following your surround tactile related posts. Might be sending you some PMs with a few questions in the future. Good luck with your build.

 

[Mr Latte]

Right, as expected then.

When the cockpit is finished (which will take several more months yet) I'm considering doing a new thread that showcases it off. Lots of photos and a few HD videos. Really though, while I want to have a well finished and immersive rig. It will be rather simple compared to some of the things shown on X-Sim forums etc.

By all means send a PM on the tactile Ive been helping several members lately all wanting to get into it.

 

[Spagetti69]

Latte I expect the moon, and you to deliver it.

No less.

 

[Mr Latte]

Speaker Positioning

The heights are to be sorted yet, popcorn boxes might not make it into final build
Centre speaker is absent but likely will have to be horizontal because of pedals and height of monitors.

Before anyone asks, err no the rear spoiler wont be sitting ontop of the back surround speakers.
Just sat it on those to give an idea for you guys as to how the final setup will go.

Again some changes as to what was planned on paper but I seem to be a person that prefers to have the thing in front of me and then change around physically to get new inspiration or a suitable option. Not going to attach the side surrounds to the double barrell main frame.

The speakers will be connected on chrome tubing uprights. Cables will be hidden and they can be rotated inwards or kept straight.

 

[seadog777]

WOW! That is some project! It looks amazing, and I can't wait to see the thread when it's finished.

Just one question though (which might have been asked already).....

Wouldn't it be easier, and perhaps cheaper, to just go and buy a Ferrari??

 

[360hype]

Oooohh popcorn!

Damn that is one killer setup! If that thing doesn't give you full immersion then I either you're deaf, or numb... or both LOL!

 

[12thgear]

You should toe-in the front speakers so the drivers are facing your ears. Since this is a cockpit and seats one, you know where the sweet spot is going to be.

 

[Mr Latte]

Oooohh popcorn!

Damn that is one killer setup! If that thing doesn't give you full immersion then I either you're deaf, or numb... or both LOL!

The question is what fatty ate all the popcorn?

Ta, lads.
Hope it gives you a bit more of a visual impression.

 

[Mr Latte]

You should toe-in the front speakers so the drivers are facing your ears. Since this is a cockpit and seats one, you know where the sweet spot is going to be.

Sorry mate, I just added that this will be possible.

I was joking with a firend earlier today showing him and discussing whats still to come. We pondered as to what is missing and he reckons I should add a footspa and blow heater for when not playing, lol.

 

[Jav]

Wow! Loving what I'm seeing! can't wait! Awsome work Mr.Latte!

 

[Mr Latte]

Wow! Loving what I'm seeing! can't wait! Awsome work Mr.Latte!

Glad your liking it so far.
I want to get my seat with the tactile moved from home to the business storeroom where this is and build my seat mount from the chrome tubing. Awaiting some more parts or tubing etc to arrive.

This tubing isnt the cheapest. The 25mm surround tubing shown (not all added yet) costs about £150 / $245 for all the fittings. The seat fittings in the thicker 32mm chrome tubing alone will be almost £100 / $160. Some may see this as crazy but I did however always state my intentions that the finished look had to be quite professional.

Got a couple of ideas for the seat mounting frame and while I need to install the subs also have to sort out positioning where the seat/wheel and pedals need to be placed.

 

[gslooney]

Now we can see the outline, it's looking good. Good luck on the rest of the build, it's an experience in itself reading this thread. good job.

Cheers

Maurice.

 

[lunarwolf]

damn that is getting to be a big rig. is it movable? or will you need to dissassemble and rebuild?

keep up the great work