Project R

[Jav]

I know Mr.Latte must be busy but just wanted to drop a line and see how things are going here.

 

[Mr Latte]

Been hectic with work tbh and family life.

Nothing new to show, maybe all this Fanatec/Forza news will give me a kick in the backside as I have plenty I could be doing...

 

[Mr Latte]

Nothing much more to see in these but doing checks regards the base to ensure the subwoofers are not obstructed by the wooden runners supporting the base. Part A / B are screwed together for now but Im looking to bolt these together for a more secure fixing. The rest of the wood will be cut and screwed together.

These subwoofers are for the L/C/R
As mentioned before
2x 10" "L & R" for etiher side of the seat
1x 12" "C" for under the seat

 

[despawn]

Just a quick question: have you tested all your gear at once? I'm no electrician, but I imagine it will be quite a load in total, possibly popping fuses in no time?

 

[Mr Latte]

A mains conditioner with surge protection might be best.
I seen one used for AV /Hifi buffs (LINDY) that offers 6 plugs upto 3120 watts.
Couple of those might be ideal.

 

[despawn]

I don't know if that helps. Like I said, I'm no electrician. But here are my thoughts anyway: the standard electrical setup is a fuse box (is that the right term in English?) with several courses (fuses). One course for the kitchen, one for the living room, one for the bedroom, etc. A standard fuse is 16 amps - which I think is the main concern here. The wattage isn't really that important, if I'm not totally mistaken. Too many amps on one course, and you'll blow the fuse. My guess is you're going to have to split your setup over several courses. But like I said, I'm no electrician, just curious.

 

[Mr Latte]

I know what your saying, not sure yet the total amount of Watts needed. Every 1000 watts is approx 4amps. A standard 13 amp fuse is good for 3000 watts on standard cabling. Yes I may need to use some devices from a separate wiring loom from the board with separate fuse. This may not be an issue where it is going to be situated.

 

[despawn]

Okay, hopefully you've got this all figured out, just satisfying my curiosity :-)

 

[Mr Latte]

Okay, hopefully you've got this all figured out, just satisfying my curiosity :-)

Its a very good point and fire hazard/risk so does need to be considered.

 

[the_greeze]

If you're not sure of the loads being placed on the electrical system, I suggest putting lower-rated fuses in to the plugs on high-load items (amps etc). This way, at least you'll have an indication of what amperage could be a problem. If fuses blow, increase the size of the fuse (but not above the equipments recommended spec!) until it all runs without problem. Also, try and plug equipment in to different sockets around the room as opposed to having multi-plug adapters. Not always possible I know, but spread it around the best you can

I'm having a major re-wire at the moment and have replaced the 10a fuses from the Behringer amps with 5a. No problems so far 👍

 

[Mr Latte]

I think "despawn" is referring to the wiring that goes back to the circuit board. So using different plugs in the same room is not the solution as they will all be on the same cabling, running from the same fuse in the circuit board. I can look at the equipment take note of all the watts it all will require and decide how to split what is powered on what plug/room. If using 2x seperate cable runs back to the circuit board that is over 6000w (6kw) which can be used and I dont see the equipment going over that at all.

Really, Im not that bothered about this yet guys as I know not to go beyond the 3000w that a 15/13 AMP fuse on the circuit board will sustain. If I need to drill a hole in a wall to allow a cable coming from a different room/cable run that goes back to a seperate fuse in the circuit board it shouldnt be that big of a job.

Perhaps I can maybe get an electrician to look and give other advice/options.
Bottom line however if I want/need all this equipment running their will be a way to make it possible.

Hope to do some more work at the base tonight...

 

[the_greeze]

...however if I want/need all this equipment running their will be a way to make it possible.

Hack into a street lamp outside? 💡

 

[blown540ci]

Well Mr Latte things are at a point where i may be of some help as i am an Electrician .

What i will say to keep things brief , I would have this put on its own dedicated circuit from the distribution board (fuse board) a ring main supply rated at 32 amps controlled by an RCBO (if your distribution board is not up to 17th edition i.e no split load rcd's) i would recommend this . (Also you do not get interference when using dedicated circuits for sound control )
If you want more info you can pm me and i would be more than happy to help .

 

[Mr Latte]

Hack into a street lamp outside? 💡

Might be an idea, this part of the country has one of the most expensive rates for electricty in Europe.

Well Mr Latte things are at a point where i may be of some help as i am an Electrician .

What i will say to keep things brief , I would have this put on its own dedicated circuit from the distribution board (fuse board) a ring main supply rated at 32 amps controlled by an RCBO (if your distribution board is not up to 17th edition i.e no split load rcd's) i would recommend this .
If you want more info you can pm me and i would be more than happy to help .

Thanks for the info/advice.
As the plan is to keep this in my store area of the business I checked just now and all the sockets/rooms going back to the board are on 30 Amp Fuses. An extension was done recently and the room sockets in that part of the store are on 32Amp fuse. Its this room on 32 that I will likely have it, so what you recommend should this not be ample, (lol, amps/ample)

 

[20832]

Absolutly stunning Project!

This may be a little indescreet, but how much money do you've already put into all of this?
I mean, you bought like a s*itload of Behringer Stuff and such thing, and I mean, those are not cheap!

 

[blown540ci]

Thanks for the info/advice.
As the plan is to keep this in my store area of the business I checked just now and all the sockets/rooms going back to the board are on 30 Amp Fuses. An extension was done recently and the room sockets in that part of the store are on 32Amp fuse. Its this room on 32 that I will likely have it, so what you recommend should this not be ample, (lol, amps/ample)

LOL
Yes that should be fine , but make sure that the circuit is just doing the said room. In most AV applications (mainly high end installations ) which yours primarily is , it is always best to have a circuit just for this . It cuts down on the magnetic interference , which in turn results in bad sound quality . This will not be noticed with everyday HiFi as it is low quality , but in this instance i strongly recommend it as it would be a shame to go to the expense that you have and not get what it is capable of producing .I would also have no other equipment plugged into this circuit i.e plant , cookers etc.

This may be a little indescreet, but how much money do you've already put into all of this?

I am sure the thought of the money will soon evaporate when set up.

 

[Mr Latte]

Absolutly stunning Project!

This may be a little indescreet, but how much money do you've already put into all of this?
I mean, you bought like a s*itload of Behringer Stuff and such thing, and I mean, those are not cheap!

I reckon I will have spent over £337
Look and you will see much of what has been spent on AV/Audio is from ebay 2nd hand. Had that all of been new gees yeah it would of been crazy.

My target is to spend no more on the actual physical build (not counting equipment) than would be spent if buying something like a Gamepod GT2 or Rennsport cockpit. Lets use that as a target reference to see if my base/frame "own build" surpases those.

Afterall having big ideas is one thing, putting them into a good design is another.

Thanks to those who helped, any other questions for now lads?

 

[Mr Latte]

Forgot to ask Im considering using "Aluminium Tread Plate" for the top of the base now as the previously considered plastics are very easily marked and wont stand the wear/tear yet maintaing a nice finish.

Does anyone know a good supplier in the UK and available possibly in black?

 

[the_greeze]

You could try here, mate. I'm not confident that you'd be able to buy it off-the-shelf in black but it may be possible to have it anodized after you've cut it to size...

*edit* Actually, that eBay supplier looks as though they offer a pretty good service. They could probably cut it to size and drill it for you (saves a lot of hassle) and they may even be able to get it anodised for you too. Worth an ask...

 

[Jav]

Man even the base of the cockpit looks high tech! Looking good Latte! Can't wait to see the final product!!

 

[Mr Latte]

Gees 500th post in this thread...

I cant believe how sometimes you think something is going to take only a small amount of time but when you start physically doing it you realise it takes much longer, doh!!!

The two chrome tubing base poles
These originally were purchased with the idea of supporting the rear spoiler. That idea changed a long time ago as these were bought almost a year back. I thought a few months back to put them to use as these would be nice placed in the base. They are placed almost dead centre of the base and mainly to act as a style feature for the entry / step up section for the seat.

One end uses a large plastic threaded foot and the other approx 80mm threaded bolt. A job I thought would be simple just took 2.5 friggin hours...

So time for another late night coffee...

Threaded bolt end, easy to sort.

Other end is trickier as has a big plastic threaded end.
So we drill the wood...

Oh yeah, and heres the piece Im referring to.

Problem is the wood is too thick preventing tightening.

So we need to cut an approx 8mm square section out from the wood

Hey Presto, we have reduced the thickness of the wood so now the thread can connect to the other end.

Now to just go and do that all again for the other side...

 

[Jav]

Wow!! All I can say is that the post count is only a reflection of the quality of this build!
Awsome job!

 

[Mr Latte]

Okay well here are some updates.
Some of the work is a bit rough but really its all going to be hidden anyways and covered over.

Well got those side poles sorted. Try to picture these with a finished base, using a mix of black acrylic plastic and aluminium/chrome with some white LED ligthing. It will be both a style factor but also a practical one allowing the "Step Over" for getting in/out to be well lighted when playing in the dark.

Got most of the base frame built now

Currently thats the top on the floor as its upside down.
I will cover over the base with an under section, enclosing the subs much later.

With the hang over lip its as planed 90" long.

I look forward to the audio testing getting all the gear working. These subwoofers are ultra slim being only 4" deep so designed to work in more confined installs. They realy should add an extra dimension/presence enchancing the directional sound effects in games and particulary audio panning across L/C/R. I want these to give a wider spread of the effect that the tactile already produces. Early testing with subs last year seemed to really enchance the tactile and speakers.

As shown in diagrams dual 12" subs running from the LFE channel will also go behind these but contained within their own bass box and angled to be firing up into the race seat.

The split wooden sections might help contain the bass for each of these L/C/R channels. The purpose of using subs combined with L/C/R speakers is to further enchance the tactile and audio experience. The problem is will it be overkill, can I get these to work well and not be out of control or badly reverberate within this base? Additional materials will help with this but really it could be an issue to overcome.

Everything pretty much went to this basic layout/plan rather well dont you think guys?

 

[the_greeze]

Looking good so far 👍

You do know we went metric in the '70s don't you?! What's with all the dimensions in inches?

On a more serious note; are those subs going to get enough 'free air' to push if they're enclosed under the floor? Don't they need to be able to 'breathe' to work effectively? Just wondering 'cos bass enclosures for vehicles are always ported and, come to think of it, so are the home cinema subs I have had.

 

[Mr Latte]

Looking good so far 👍

You do know we went metric in the '70s don't you?! What's with all the dimensions in inches?


On a more serious note; are those subs going to get enough 'free air' to push if they're enclosed under the floor? Don't they need to be able to 'breathe' to work effectively? Just wondering 'cos bass enclosures for vehicles are always ported and, come to think of it, so are the home cinema subs I have had.

Good Morning...
Nothing wrong with inches, force of habbit Im afraid.
Its good to question things, I wish more would voice their thoughts/opinions.

Sony's own instruction/installation guide mentions nothing about enclosures for these products for required distances/sizes or enclosure types. I think really part of it is going to come down to testing. I can raise one of the subs a couple of inches to give a bigger enclosure during testing to see if it makes much difference. The above photos do not represent the installation more really for positioning.

More to come on a further update but other things to do before starting audio testing.

Have a read here at this guys info on subs.

"Sealed Enclosures
Straightforward in design, the sealed box is nothing more than an airtight enclosure whose purpose is to enhance speaker performance. When a woofer is installed in one, the sound waves that emanate from the front of the speaker cone are separated from the rear-firing waves. This improves bass response, since opposing waves can cancel each other out when they aren’t isolated. Superb damping, good power-handling capability, and simplicity of construction make the sealed-box enclosure an ideal candidate for a variety of installations.
A sealed enclosure will be the smallest (for a given response shape) and will have good low frequency extension but may not have the best low frequency extension. If space is limited, this may be your best choice."

Dont forget these subs are utilising L/C/R channels so they do not necessarily need really low end frequency extension performance. I had to keep that in mind. I dont really have much options for size of enclosure but could also try a ported option on one side during testing.

What you think?

 

[the_greeze]

I only bought up the inches thing as I work in the offshore oil & gas industry and every time I see a construction drawing from a client that is (still!) in bloody inches, I want to scream!

I guess testing is the only real way to be sure. Is that framework going to sit directly on the floor or are you going to have a gap under it (maybe mount it on short legs)? I'm no expert on subs (reading some of that guys blog has confirmed that!) it's just that all the examples I've ever owned (in cars, home cinema etc) have been ported...

 

[Mr Latte]

I only bought up the inches thing as I work in the offshore oil & gas industry and every time I see a construction drawing from a client that is (still!) in bloody inches, I want to scream!

I guess testing is the only real way to be sure. Is that framework going to sit directly on the floor or are you going to have a gap under it (maybe mount it on short legs)? I'm no expert on subs (reading some of that guys blog has confirmed that!) it's just that all the examples I've ever owned (in cars, home cinema etc) have been ported...

No worries man, bit of fun on the inches I know that. My wife prefers to measure in inches as well.

I think a lot of subs and sometimes floorstanding speakers use ports as a style feature more than actual performance one. All my own subs have been ported as well your right. Testing will be the only way and I will use music and games to put them through their paces. If anything Im more worried about the performance of the main speakers being good enough.

Anyone reading has experience in this area then their advice would be welcomed.

Yes I have metal feet used on factory machinary to support the base and are designed to reduce vibrations.
Here we go, 10x of these will be used, they are really solid heavy and IIRC these cost me almost £70.
So they better be damn good at reducing vibrations and taking all the weight, they also allow for the thread to pivot.

 

[blown540ci]

I would say ported would be better but as the Greeze i am no expert and am speaking from my own previous experience .

If you do port how about these to keep the holes nice and tidy .

Taken from desk management system .

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks, although

I just bought 4x 2" ports on ebay for £5, what the heck.
Went with 2" instead of 3" as these are small subs and can use 2 for the 12" if needed.

Lets see if it makes a difference.

 

[the_greeze]

My wife prefers to measure in inches as well...

Oddly enough, I prefer it when mine does that too!