Project R

[Delphic Reason]

Quite a deal on those headphones. I was looking for a set of those a while back, but I didn't find anything close to that price.

Those speakers look a treat, as well.

 

[scutzi128]

Why didn't you just get a highend set of wired cans if everything is going to be contained in the cockpit? HIFI and wireless never mix too well imo.

 

[Mr Latte]

Why didn't you just get a highend set of wired cans if everything is going to be contained in the cockpit? HIFI and wireless never mix too well imo.

Well I have a pair of Sennisher HD600 that I use for music at times.

A problem I noticed with my AV amplifer at home is that when using the headphone output socket I didnt get any signal from the LFE from the amplifer for the Buttkickers. I dont know yet if this Sony 820 model Ive bought for the cockpit will do that or not.

However these headphones allow direct connection of the PS3 "Optical Output" to be used with the headphones own decoding/signal box. I can then use the HDMI output with the Sony AV amplifer to still produce the LFE bass to the Buttkickers with the headphones even if on the Sony the AV amps haeadphone socket cancels the LFE like on my amp at home. This way I can still get the immersion benifits in the Buttkickers going to the seat, wheel and pedals still enjoying playing the game in either stereo or virtual 7.1 surround.

I also wanted wireless headphones for the simple reason no issue with cables getting in and out or a cable getting tangled up all the time.

 

[scutzi128]

Ahh I see I have a set of HD650s and love them so Id be interested to see how you end up liking the sony compared to the Senns. I use a splitter and run the signal to both my buttkicker gamer 2 amp and my cans.

 

[Mr Latte]

Ahh I see I have a set of HD650s and love them so Id be interested to see how you end up liking the sony compared to the Senns. I use a splitter and run the signal to both my buttkicker gamer 2 amp and my cans.

I will certainly let you know what I think of them, although at the price they cant be bad I reckon even if the 7.1 feature is a bit of a gimmick.


Buttkicker Related
Spent a while this evening messing with the Technics graphic equaliser I got from ebay last week. Of course it allows me to alter the bass for the BK transducers but not to the amount of control I want, mmmm. I think part of the problem is the lowest control it gives is 63 Hz / 160 Hz / 400 Hz. These are fine for music but not really the Buttkickers.


So what do I do?
Well I change to plan B, thats what










Doing research and talking with a few other members here in other threads about these "transducers" I think I found the answer. Something that gives much more control of low end bass, really low bass which is what the transducers use. In comparison to the technics equaliser this gives control over 16 Hz to 150 KHz which is much more control of low and high frequencies.

* Benifits wanted are having control how much the transducers shake as well as what frequency range is sent to them.


Heres what it did for this guys Home Cinema

Digital Subharmonic Synthesizer
Generates musically consequential subharmonics that can be set to one or two octaves below the lowest frequencies present in the original signal. Based on waveform analysis, the generated tones harmonize perfectly with the original sound, giving you big, fat low end, while the integrated limiter effectively protects your system from overloading. Connected to tactile transducer amps for greater effect without the need for additional wattage.


Its now a discontinued item but is a highly regarded in audio fields.

Damn I need to stay off ebay but again this was resonably priced at £69
Although think I will now resell the Technics EQ to recoup most of the cost back.

 

[stega]

Sick find...

 

[Mr Latte]

Sick find...

Well yeah couldnt believe my luck, although the price was close to what they were new.

Racer XO
Would it be possible to get you to do a few experiements or help with a few queries I have regards the Clarke Transducers. Maybe give me a PM rather than clog up the threads and in turn I think we can also help each other regards the triple monitors.

 

[Mr Latte]

So another week guys....

Latest ebay purchases arrived in the headphones and AV amplifer.
Been so busy with work I havnt had a chance to do anything this week. Also find it hard to get into it as the monitor mounts is damn tedious work. I look more forward in getting the rest of the base built and starting on the seat and wheel uprights along with the rear section for the subs and amps. At that point it might start to remsemble a cockpit... I know it looks like Im just constantly just buying and adding to this and building nothing but I guess you will have to trust me that a lot of ideas/planning work is still being done at home.

Closer look at the Sony 7.1 Headphones
The headphones while not giving true surround positioning certainly do offer a greater presence than normal stereo. Their is a bigger scale to the soundstage like some AV amplifers use good DSP modes to like 7 Channel stereo in creating a more envoloping audio experience. Im surprised Sony never released these for the UK/European market.

More testing to be done but although these will never have the stereo fidelity of good headphones they are more than pleasing in games I tried. Beautiful appearance quality build and quite a satisfying purchase.
Using the Cinema and Game mode available offer differences with Cinema giving a sense of scale like a theatre, a bit like Yamaha's Cinema DSP modes and the Game mode is less in sense of scale but very effective compared to the units normal stereo operation.

A good purchase at this price and they look great too particulary with the shiny gloss black and chrome Sony logo.
These will not only complement the desired high quality looks of the cockpit but be a great addition when wanting to game with the speakers off but still get a high level of audio experience/depth from the games.

 

[Mr Latte]

I was itching to see GT5 in multiscreens at E3 and with talking about it recently and Im a bit concerned if its in the game or not.

Well Ive discovered a way to get Prologue to show cockpit view in multiscreen mode.
Prologue has some issues mainly being the views are not aligned properly as the Left/Right views have approx 20% of the centre screen showing in them
So I had to reposition the monitor partially across the centre screen to align them.

I think this is pretty much an exclusive showing for the first time screen shots simulating what GT5 will be like in Multiscreens. 👍
These are not fake but from the game running taken from replay mode.

For now here is some screenshots of footage taken during a test at Suzuka.
What Ive learned from this is that if GT5 doe not support a multiscreen mode directly wthin the game it may be possible to still get it from "Spectator Mode"

F40 Suzuka

F599 Suzuka

F1 2007

Video Of 599 Suzuka


This can be discussed here

 

[No46_TheDoctor]

Well I have a pair of Sennisher HD600 that I use for music at times.

A problem I noticed with my AV amplifer at home is that when using the headphone output socket I didnt get any signal from the LFE from the amplifer for the Buttkickers. I dont know yet if this Sony 820 model Ive bought for the cockpit will do that or not.

However these headphones allow direct connection of the PS3 "Optical Output" to be used with the headphones own decoding/signal box. I can then use the HDMI output with the Sony AV amplifer to still produce the LFE bass to the Buttkickers with the headphones even if on the Sony the AV amps haeadphone socket cancels the LFE like on my amp at home. This way I can still get the immersion benifits in the Buttkickers going to the seat, wheel and pedals still enjoying playing the game in either stereo or virtual 7.1 surround.

I also wanted wireless headphones for the simple reason no issue with cables getting in and out or a cable getting tangled up all the time.

How are you going to get your PS3 to output audio from both the optical and HDMI ? Just curious.

 

[Mr Latte]

How are you going to get your PS3 to output audio from both the optical and HDMI ? Just curious.

Thats simple by using the multi audio output setting on the PS3

PS3 had a trick way of getting it to work a couple of years ago as well before being officially available.


UPDATE:

With GT5 not out till November Its really taken the wind out of my sails so to speak in progressing much.
If anything the longer release date has allowed more hardware ideas be implemented.

Mentioned in I think Stega's thread recently that I had new ideas for the audio.
So instead of having the dual 12" subwoofers at the back Im going to have a 12" subwoofer to the left and right of the seat.
A larger single 15" subwoofer will now be directly behind the seat and will allow the back of the cockpit to be neater.

With so much bass Ive decided to not have the amplifers and AV equipment housed in the cockpit as vibrations might not be good for the electronics.
These can be placed on a rack in the same area/room. Doing this means new changes to the design for the back of the cockpit but will eliminate heat issues and also reduce the weight.

Having so much happening on the audio side for this project the decision now is not to build the audio into the cockpit but build the cockpit around the audio.
So the objective is to have full 7 channel surround onboard speakers but also have effectively what will be surround/bass coming from combined subwoofers and multiple tactile transducers.
The complete cockpit is going to allow upto approx 3000 watts of amplification and possibly more for the combined speaker/tactile entertainment experience.

I guess I will build the main wooden base section next and to position the seat with lots of testing on the audio to determine exactly where the subs and Buttkickers etc will be placed.
Look forward to my firend bringing me the Clarke TST's from the USA in August and test these with the Buttkicker and subs. The guys here are reporting them to be different in the sensation they produce to the Buttkickers and when testing is done then I can determine what next has to be done possibly with controlling vibrations to ensure their is no unwanted rattling or noises.

A 2nd Ultrabass Pro was also purchased on ebay to give control of the new sub.
The Ultrabass has been working great for me really allowing the bass to be given a much deeper impact from LFE effects.

 

[Mr Latte]

Clubsport Pedals / Mr Latte Remix
Increased Rumble Force

I mentioned recently before about this tiopic and on some of the Buttkicker related threads but want to give you guys a little more input on it.


For those unaware the Clubsport Pedals have a "Unique Brake Feature" giving a rumble sensation when applying full brakes.

One of the many great benifits that only Fanatec provide in these pedals.

How It Works
A small motor is given an electrical current when the wheel detects when full brakes are applied. This spins a small weight which creates minimal vibrations that can be felt in the pedal. It was a feature I applauded Fanatec for but it has some limitations.


My Mission Begins
Ive looked in the past in different forums but have found nothing on nobody looking at upgrading or modifing this feature to enchance it?
The downside of this feature is that it is rather weak sensation and if your using a Buttkiker type device in your cockpit then the Buttkickers own vibrations coming from the games audio can drown out the seperate vibration of the pedals. So I looked into thinking what if a Buttkicker device can be triggered to work from this feature. This would allow a much stronger sensation to be felt working in realtime with only the brakes locking up.

How though could this work as a Buttkicker needs a non digital but audiable amplified single to operate. The answer is quite simple something that can record/monitor audio of the motor spinning on the pedals, yes its as simple as using a microhpone.

Below is images from early testing to determine if its possible, does the theory work?

The answer is yes I successfully got a response from a subwoofer working off my LFE output from my AV amplifer when the pedals were in full lock. So the microphone was working as expected. What is likely going to be needed is using a smaller microphone along with the motor in an enclosed casing. The reason for this is twofold. Firstly to contain the audio/hum from the motor/weight spinning to strengthen the audio signal it produces which in turn has to be amplified and secondly to ensure general noises within the room, being the games audio, the players feet on the pedals are not detected via the microphone.

I know Im onto something here in getting this to work effectively which will be possible even if additional hardware in something like a microphone amplifer with EQ may be needed.
Having this working will make it possible to have the whole front end of the cockpit vibrate under full locking brakes possibly giving a simulation of the inertia of a car. Although at this stage I'd propose that also using a graphic equaliser to enable giving this "Brake/Buttkicker" signal a different audible signature. Why well to differentiate how this feels making this effect feel different to the main Buttkicker's vibration being used working from the games audio. That way the cockpit wont end up having a whole mash of just mad vibrations/rumble.


This wont be how the mod will end up loooking, lol but from early testing.

 

[snazzyles]

I am also looking at improving the output from the motor but I plan on using a relay to turn on a larger motor with similar weight. The motor will be fixed to the back of the steel plate my pedals are bolted on to.

 

[Harbinja]

This looks frickin awesome dude!!! Will be watching avidly...

Paul

 

[Mr Latte]

This looks frickin awesome dude!!! Will be watching avidly...

Paul

I will be keeping an eye on yours too mate.

Snazzyless, that sounds good, keep us all posted on the progress.
Im going to compare using a Clarke TST and Mini Buttkicker for the pedal section. See if one feels better than the other with this method but have to wait to mine arrives from USA.

Ive decided to drop the "Joystick" for menus and possible look left/right.
Head tracking seems to be good from what we have seen but Id still like a nice way to control the menus of the game.
It looks like the "Move Sub Controller" will be ideal for navigation and quick setting changes and could still be programmed to do look left/right via analogue if needed.

Maybe a nice cup type holder to put this in beside the seat or attach it to a a side platform with velcro.
Anyone else considered this for the same uses?

 

[stega]

I will be keeping an eye on yours too mate.

Snazzyless, that sounds good, keep us all posted on the progress.
Im going to compare using a Clarke TST and Mini Buttkicker for the pedal section. See if one feels better than the other with this method but have to wait to mine arrives from USA.

Ive decided to drop the "Joystick" for menus and possible look left/right.
Head tracking seems to be good from what we have seen but Id still like a nice way to control the menus of the game.
It looks like the "Move Sub Controller" will be ideal for navigation and quick setting changes and could still be programmed to do look left/right via analogue if needed.

Maybe a nice cup type holder to put this in beside the seat or attach it to a a side platform with velcro.
Anyone else considered this for the same uses?

Awesome idea w/ the Move controller. You could easily make a holster type thing to hold it. I am now thinking of the same thing!

I have been discussing your "Clubsport Pedals / Mr Latte Remix Increased Rumble Force" idea w/ a few friends they think that an easier way to go about all this would be just to buy a larger vibration motor and attach it to the pedal tray and use the same signal it uses right now to activate.

I think your mic idea is great and very creative but would not work for me as there is just way to much sound in the rest of the room.

I know some people were worried/wondering how to mount the ps eye for head-tracking. Sony has come out w/ a tv clip for the ps eye that looks like it may solve that dilemma but I suppose some Velcro could do the same.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yeah, its worth looking into the possibility of a larger motor however that would need to be checked with Thomas. For instance what load and voltage will the PCB accept and what about warrenty if a new larger motor blows the PCB?

If a mic is sealed with the motor part in a small box type enclosure then I dont think external noises will be much of an issue. The advantage of using a Buttkicker or indeed one of the Clarke models is that with its own amplification and tailored equalisation then we can play about more with it for the desired strength of effect we want.

This will always be more powerful than just a larger motor and the problem I see with a larger motor is that it could still have a small area in the spread of rumble it produces but then have too much vibration on the pedal its attached too.

Worth looking into the options and seeing what can be done with both ideas.
In the meantime can you compare the Clarke TST against the Mini LFE for me on the pedals using just ingame audio.

btw nice find for the PS Eye, also see the charger unit for Move it might be perfect for the cockpit to hold it in place.

 

[snazzyles]

I was thinking about using a 12v power supply for the larger motor using the signal from the pedals to activate a relay that will then switch on the motor.

 

[Mr Latte]

I was thinking about using a 12v power supply for the larger motor using the signal from the pedals to activate a relay that will then switch on the motor.

Yeah I forgot about that and it is one way of avoiding warrenty issues I suppose. However you get my point about using this gives no real control in changing or altering whatever vibration a larger motor produces or am I missing something?

The benifit with the BK's and using audio equipment means its possible to tweak to a user preference both in the sensitivity and force how the rumble feels with simple volume or equaliser settings.

Look forward to what you come up with though mate.

 

[stega]

Yeah I forgot about that and it is one way of avoiding warrenty issues I suppose. However you get my point about using this gives no real control in changing or altering whatever vibration a larger motor produces or am I missing something?

The benifit with the BK's and using audio equipment means its possible to tweak to a user preference both in the sensitivity and force how the rumble feels with simple volume or equaliser settings.

Look forward to what you come up with though mate.

There must be a way to adjust the speed on most vibration motors and that should equate to more or less power/shaking???

 

[snazzyles]

I never thought about changing the force of the motor but I could use a speed controller.

 

[stega]

I never thought about changing the force of the motor but I could use a speed controller.

Perhaps adding some speed or a new counter weight to the current motor could make a difference.

 

[Mr Latte]

Oh great then excelent if you thnk this can be easily done. "Make it so" guys.
Look forward to the progress on how it goes.

Your option might be a cheaper solution and maybe some RC car parts would be ideal.

 

[snazzyles]

I was also thinking about some old rc parts that I have but a quick look at Maplin and I found a panel mounted speed controller for £15 they also have a selection of motors for less than £10. I was thinking of using an old laptop power supply so I think £35 would cover all the parts I need to get it working.

 

[stega]

Oh great then excelent if you thnk this can be easily done. "Make it so" guys.
Look forward to the progress on how it goes.

Your option might be a cheaper solution and maybe some RC car parts would be ideal.

My experience w/ electronics is very limited so I would have to ask my engineering buddy on this one.

 

[Mr Latte]

Interesting lads, Im liking it...

 

[Typhoons]

Any progress on the construction side?

 

[Mr Latte]

Yes I did get a few other things further advanced and got some other components purchased as well. Just not been updating with more boring stuff.

I had some twit on ebay not send me the 15" subwoofer I purchased so here I am with box purchased to house one and no sub. Again got my funds back via appeal but not what I wanted. Also an amplifer decided to go pop and burn out that has to go back but I did get the 2nd Beherringer Ultra Bass delivered.

Another Issue:
The speakers previously shown were only 3ohm and this could be a problem with overheating the 8ohm amp I got which wont allow 4ohm switching, mmm.

So I also seen about purchasing some small Sony cube speakers at 4ohm with the idea these could be included and wired in sequence to have a total of 7ohm rating between both speakers combined. It means however the cockpit would in effect now have dual sets of speakers with 14 speakers and 2x 12" subwoofers (going back to the original sub idea).

All I can say is I find myself shaking my head. So instead of making good progress it seems ideas and the inclusion of onboard speakers that I have a tendency to creating more problems for myself as one thing has lead to annother.

These speakers/amps are laying just havnt been able to get motivated in wiring them all up to see if it works or not with my amp.

Im at a difficult stage as Ive waited and weve had no word if "multiscreens" will be supported. The problem being this project is driven mainly for my desire to play GT5 and not for other PC sims. The triple screen aspect was a big part of this and I feel uneasy that it may not be included or when do they confrim it to be included. The cockpit can function without the front monitor section as explained in the early posts but damn thats the way I really want to play it and this section plays a big part in the projects looks and my inspiration for it.

On top of that uncertainty Ive just been so consumed with issues of my business and a lot of stress lately with work. Well owning a business is usually always stressful but the recession is adding to things. Excuses no, as anyone with thier own business will know how different this is to being an employee.

It just seems I have other priorities to take care of over worrying about this right now.

 

[AVF_AmbientFish]

Hi BR, just skipped through your thread here, nice work mate, I posted in your thread over on AV Forums then noticed you hadn't been on there for about 4 months, now I know why lol. look forward to racing you when you get your rig to-gether, I see you are using the Fanatec wheel, just got one myself and looking for some tips on set up to get smooth responses in GT5P, it's great on FM3 but a bit strange on GT5P, sorry for the off topic request mate I'm just anxious to get the best from the Fanatec, best of British with the build, see ya at the races.👍

 

[stega]

Hi BR, just skipped through your thread here, nice work mate, I posted in your thread over on AV Forums then noticed you hadn't been on there for about 4 months, now I know why lol. look forward to racing you when you get your rig to-gether, I see you are using the Fanatec wheel, just got one myself and looking for some tips on set up to get smooth responses in GT5P, it's great on FM3 but a bit strange on GT5P, sorry for the off topic request mate I'm just anxious to get the best from the Fanatec, best of British with the build, see ya at the races.👍

Set a small dead-zone with the settings on the wheel.