PS3 General Discussion

[a6m5]

Sony has "sold the brick" to MS with the whole "Blu-Ray vs. HDDVD" hoax. Today it is claearly visible that Blu-Ray wil become the future HD standard for both movie, computer and entertainment industry. BR-R are being produced, the price is still very high but it will go stumbling down before 2008. And no real consumer or industry demand - except for the piracy-related issues - will not be so worldwide-high before the end of 2007 for all BR-Recordable media and devices. Toshiba and Sony were partners from 2002 and all this "BR vs. HDDVD" issues were just smart industry-move towards preparing the market for more expensive but still more versatile and advanced media. But, Microsoft had no choice and noe their position is very bad in that specific area.

I get into the "conspiracy theory" bit too much sometimes, but it always bugged me how Toshiba and Sony seemed to get along real well(cell chip), but they couldn't get along on the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD thing. It really did seem like HD-DVD didn't stand a chance against the Blu-ray DVDs, at least in the long run, but Toshiba camp was still putting up a fight, failing to work with the Sony camp on a format they can agree on. I really doubt that HD-DVD thing was some sort of hoax, but I do think you are definitely onto something there. Very sharp. 👍

 

[Sprite]

Do you get to watch it? What was shown? The link you provided has been blocked. The only video I know of so far is the one I provided, but if I find another one, if there is another one, I'll get it.

As i stated before in my other posts it just an audio file of the whole confrence, so its not that great. Im still waiting on more videons like the one you posted, but so im unable to find any at all. I will post the link to all the other links for that audio file here.

LINK

This is the link to all the other links just for that audio file.

 

[LaBounti]

You can tell how good a company is doing by the fact that Sony has never"Advertised" a free game with the three systems they have . Not ps1 not PS2. MS and nintendo have both whet mad with advertising free games and stuff. And look how MS has been giving away Xbox360's. Don't expect sony to have a gigantic show just to give 1000's systems away or lower the retail cost in some areas. MS is the first one out the gatres and they are already desperate. Sony is doing the right thing by delaying it but analysts have prediction November for a long time already.

Now, how long do I have to wait to get Front Mission 3 on my PSP? I dont see anything wrong with PSone on PSP. tha just makes the graphics even with DS . I think read somewhere that classic PS2 games will be downloadalbe to PS3.

 

[Tenacious D]

amar212: (Sorry for calling you Amaro by the way)

You and Solid Lifters bring some of the best, informative and most thoughtful posts to the boards. But the one about the XBox720 is kind of... meh.

I can't deny being an unabashed Playstation fanboy, and the 3 is definitely going to blow the video game/entertainment world wide open. The 360 isn't just suffering from shortages, it's also having to fight the shadow of that 100 ton gorilla called the PS3 which the whole world has been drooling for since the solid info came out at the 2005 E3 Expo. And Sony, those dastards, leading us on about a spring 2006 release has undoubtedly made many people not bother to think of buying the 360, especially with the shortages. Plus the fact that in the U.S., you pretty much have to pay $450 for a bundle package you might not want, and that's for the base 360 without the hard drive! Developers are hurting from this too, so it's some good news for everyone that supposedly the shortages of 360s are over.

Now I have to quibble a bit. The perception that the 360 is a weak system is definitely in the gamer's psyche, and to be sure, the PS3 is ridiculously powerful. But game wise, with the tools both camps have for their systems, the 360 is not all that different. The quality of games is astounding. I just frankly don't want any of them. If there was a Forza 2 forthcoming, I'd give it some serious consideration, but it's not that long before PS3 hits the shelves.

A new 720 system isn't needed. Nintendo is actually going to go the route of lesser power and more fun, old style games, and I'm sure the Revolution will do well, might even take the second place spot from Microsoft. Al MS has to do is start chunking those 360s out of the factory and putting them on shelves, and making developers happy. Plus, like Sega and Sony both did, make sure that the games which come out for the 360 are of the highest quality and most fun factor. Going with the DVD format... well, what could they do? HD-DVD wasn't ready and would be expensive, and most games take up little of a DVD disc anyway. And high content games have come on multiple discs before, we're used to it. Microsoft just needs to work on that game library, and they're good.

Oh, and as for Forza 2 (and I'm assuming it's an EA game)...
PLEASE! For God's sake, DROP the ignorant NFS:Ugly bumpercar bots! FIX the audio! FIX the 3D perspective! FIX the steering, car feedback to me and physics! FIX the camera system! I like Forza, but damn, that game is dramatically more irritating than anything in GT4! AARGH!

 

[tha_con]

amar212: (Sorry for calling you Amaro by the way)

You and Solid Lifters bring some of the best, informative and most thoughtful posts to the boards. But the one about the XBox720 is kind of... meh.

I can't deny being an unabashed Playstation fanboy, and the 3 is definitely going to blow the video game/entertainment world wide open. The 360 isn't just suffering from shortages, it's also having to fight the shadow of that 100 ton gorilla called the PS3 which the whole world has been drooling for since the solid info came out at the 2005 E3 Expo. And Sony, those dastards, leading us on about a spring 2006 release has undoubtedly made many people not bother to think of buying the 360, especially with the shortages. Plus the fact that in the U.S., you pretty much have to pay $450 for a bundle package you might not want, and that's for the base 360 without the hard drive! Developers are hurting from this too, so it's some good news for everyone that supposedly the shortages of 360s are over.

Now I have to quibble a bit. The perception that the 360 is a weak system is definitely in the gamer's psyche, and to be sure, the PS3 is ridiculously powerful. But game wise, with the tools both camps have for their systems, the 360 is not all that different. The quality of games is astounding. I just frankly don't want any of them. If there was a Forza 2 forthcoming, I'd give it some serious consideration, but it's not that long before PS3 hits the shelves.

A new 720 system isn't needed. Nintendo is actually going to go the route of lesser power and more fun, old style games, and I'm sure the Revolution will do well, might even take the second place spot from Microsoft. Al MS has to do is start chunking those 360s out of the factory and putting them on shelves, and making developers happy. Plus, like Sega and Sony both did, make sure that the games which come out for the 360 are of the highest quality and most fun factor. Going with the DVD format... well, what could they do? HD-DVD wasn't ready and would be expensive, and most games take up little of a DVD disc anyway. And high content games have come on multiple discs before, we're used to it. Microsoft just needs to work on that game library, and they're good.

Oh, and as for Forza 2 (and I'm assuming it's an EA game)...
PLEASE! For God's sake, DROP the ignorant NFS:Ugly bumpercar bots! FIX the audio! FIX the 3D perspective! FIX the steering, car feedback to me and physics! FIX the camera system! I like Forza, but damn, that game is dramatically more irritating than anything in GT4! AARGH!

Um...I'm pretty sure he was joking about the 720.


As for people "not buying" the 360 because of Sony's "Spring Release". That really has very little to do with it. The fact that there aren't a lot of games out for it, plus it's higher price point than typical consoles, has had it selling less. The PS3 will sell just about the same as the 360 has, that is unless there are no shortages, in which case I think the release hype will sell a lot of them. But Sony has very little to do with the sales of the 360, in comparison to their short numbers.

 

[code_kev]

Amar212, your post was pretty far off the mark tbh. If you really think that they are gonna do that (replace the 360 any time soon), then your pretty naive.

X360 is a great piece of hardware, but is produced for "now". PS3 is fully produced for "tommorow". Without some serious revamping of hardware - or even launching a brand new console - X360 will lost the 2nd NG War big time. Nintendo could easily take the 2nd place on the market from them.

You are aware that the Nintendo Rev will have less power then both machines right?

As shown by the ps2 vs xbox, specs didn't make that much of a difference, and I seriously doubt they will here.

 

[tha_con]

are you people really taking his words SERIOUSLY? I mean, do you really believe that he was not JOKING when he said that? It was a joke. A jab. *teehee*.

Also, code, I'm pretty sure that power has nothing to do with sales, as you later pointed out, so why the need to point out that the Rev has less power? I'm honestly thinking it'll do wonderful due to the fact it'll probably be $100-$150 cheaper than both of these consoles easily. Parents will eat that up, plus all the neat gimmick stuff. When I a kid, I absolutely LOVED things like that, the Track Pad, the Power Glove, the Lite Gun, heck even wireless controllers were amazing to me. This, my friend, will buy up a lot of parents and children, IMO, easily, and that market, which is widely untapped these day's, could possibly put nintendo in a very nice position.

 

[code_kev]

Oh god, reading it again properly, I can now see all the spelling mistakes put in on purpose haha, doh, in future I should pay more attention, but you can't blame me man, I was wasting valuable oblivion time . Thing is, there REALLY are people on the internet who think like that!

And I only mentioned the revs power to correct a fact, I now realise he was taking this piss, so no matter.

 

[Tenacious D]

Well, he is from Croatia, but his english was about as good is mine.

Just having some fun with letters amar, no offense, and your english really is excellent, but now I wonder if he hasn't played a huge joke on us.

About the Revolution, I have to think that Nintendo is making a wise move. Frankly, if Resident Evil 4 on the mere GameCube will still be a superb game four or five years from now, the Revolution doesn't have to try and be as powerful as the other two to look utterly fantastic, and about as good as the 360 and PS3.

And as pointed out, the market is more than likely going to be VERY happy with a powerful next gen system at half the price or so. Plus Nintendo knows good games and has a relationship with developers that goes back well over a decade. The games will be fantastic. I'm definitely getting one.

 

[Max_DC]

I don't think that amar212 was joking tbh. I'm not sure if it will be that way, but one thing is for sure : 10 GB are not 50 GB, which some day in the near future will limit the possibility for developers to produce games with equal content and quality for PS3 and Xbox360. Of course the Revolution has even less power, but they have other ambitions ( low price, easy access over the remote-control pad, Nintendo exclusive classic... XBLA is nice, but SNES classics for example have huge fanbases all over the world).
So the XBox360 has this huge disadvantage (DVD) and that's why I also don't think, that MS will stand by the 360 for several years. 2008 or 2009 imo is the time for a new Xbox . And no, I'm not joking... .

 

[Tenacious D]

Well....... we'll see. Just keep in mind what developers have done with the PS2, which to this day, developers are still grouching over. Even mentioned this in an interview at the GDC a couple of days ago. I think the only thing developers are grouching over in regard to the 360 is the shortage. Maybe the hard drive size, but who knows. Like I said with the PS3 system ram, more is always better, but maybe MS will allow an affordable upgrade.

I do think that most of the development community attention is going to swing towards the PS3 in a huge way. I have little doubt that unless they invest in high level development kits for both systems, you'll see many more games ported to the XBox360 in the coming years than the other way around. However the 360 isn't going away any time soon, and I'm sure that the developers will develop for both pretty solidly till 2011-12, when the next next-gen systems appear, or God shows up to make us behave.

 

[tha_con]

Actually, I'm a little stupid, and my apologies to code_kev and TD.

I didn't read amar's post, and only saw the joking bit from Maven, and kind of *assumed* that amar was on the same page, apparently he wasn't, I skimmed pieces of his post, so again, my apologies, I don't know what his intentions were.

I'm not going to say I agree or disagree, it's up to MS to let us know when they'll release another console. Provided the Xbox was sort of short lived, I dont' think MS will keep the 360 around TOO long, but I also don't think they'll dump it by 2008 by any means.

 

[Tenacious D]

Yeah, seriously. They put a ton of work and investment into the 360. This has GOT to be their baby till 2011. But it's good enough that it's not going to fail or anything. Microsoft is like Sony, a huge megacorporation which owns small countries. They won't let it fail.

 

[tha_con]

Well....... we'll see. Just keep in mind what developers have done with the PS2, which to this day, developers are still grouching over. Even mentioned this in an interview at the GDC a couple of days ago. I think the only thing developers are grouching over in regard to the 360 is the shortage. Maybe the hard drive size, but who knows. Like I said with the PS3 system ram, more is always better, but maybe MS will allow an affordable upgrade.

I do think that most of the development community attention is going to swing towards the PS3 in a huge way. I have little doubt that unless they invest in high level development kits for both systems, you'll see many more games ported to the XBox360 in the coming years than the other way around. However the 360 isn't going away any time soon, and I'm sure that the developers will develop for both pretty solidly till 2011-12, when the next next-gen systems appear, or God shows up to make us behave.

*sigh* again...

A console upgrade will never happen, never in a million years. NEVER. Not today, not tomorrow. The entire purpose of a console is to have established system specifications in which the developers can work for to ensure the largest possible userbase and the smallest amount of variables in which to work.

Second, we've gone over the system memory thing time and time again, and only now do I wonder why you never say such things in respect to the 360, which shares the exact same amount of memory as the PS3, with the only difference being that the 360 cannot share from either, it's a strict 50/50 split (unless of course developers work their way around it through funny programming).

Also, I doubt we'll see either system really swing ports aside from sports titles, simply because both have their strength's and weaknesses, I think we'll see more similar games with different names than we will see direct ports.

And as far as Sony providing good development tools, it's rather obvious to see you do not keep up with any news in regards to development assets, SDK's, and assistance from other 3rd party teams. Even IBM is writing scripts, documentation, and putting together compilers for the Cell processor for Developers to utilize. But, again, you are have yet to really delve into the subject, focusing only on rumor and speculation, most likely generated by the infamous Kikizo.


I don't mean to sound harsh...but I am an ass hat, so bear with me.

 

[Tenacious D]

Actually, both Sega and Nintendo had upgrades to their consoles. Nintendo in a small way with a memory cartridge for the N64 which wasn't all that and a bag of chips, and Sega in a big way, with add-ons for the Genesis, with quite a bit of success. And Sony is saying that an upgradeable hard drive will be available. Now, it may not happen. I think 60 gigs is plenty, but then again I'm not aware of what Sony has in store for us to load onto it. If we get permission to back up our data onto our PCs and Macs, then 60 gigs should be plenty, but we'll see.

As for the porting issue, developers have been talking about porting to the PS3 from 360 for months now, since the 360 is out and the PS3 availability was uncertain. Plus they had 360 dev kits, and the PS3 kits still had to be brought to 1.0 release specs. I do expect that most games will be system specific, but I don't know. Porting may be a headache, but it saves a lot of development work, and only the bigger companies will be able to afford 360 and PS3 teams.

As for the development kits, I'm unaware that I said Sony didn't have any. Maybe because I didn't say they did have them, you assumed that I was saying they didn't exist? I'm unclear as to what exactly you're driving at, but I do know that even the big third party developers like Konami and Capcom have just recently received the full dev kits from Sony.

Sigh.

 

[Sprite]

I dont want to sound all Gehy but, MS will not bring another console to the table for atlesast 3 to 4 years. It would prove to be a good move in theory but the chance to compete against an established console such as PS3 with something new would angry the fanboys and other consumers, and also the developers. I can see however a upgrade in the form of next gen HD-DVD drive coming, and also upgradable HDD, along with a revised price plan for LIVE. But new hardware is a No in my book, look at the other consoles who brought an addon to the table a third of the way through there consoles life cycle, mega cd anyone??? MS maybe still learning to walk, but they arnt stupid enough to enter the London Marathon

Oh ye BTW here is the audio file of the full GDC for anyone having problems with the other links.

LINK

 

[Jedi2016]

And Sony is saying that an upgradeable hard drive will be available. Now, it may not happen.

Huh? They just reiterated that again at GDC. The system will include the 60GB hard drive, but it's a removable drive.. you can upgrade it at will. Buy a bigger drive and slap it in there, done. Of course, there's the issue of transferring game saves, but I'm sure Sony's thought of that. Probably use the network to save important data to your PC, then put it back onto the new drive once it's installed.

As for Microsoft releasing a new box... not going to happen. The industry can't support it. Right now, we've got a rift of one year between 360 and PS3. I think that's about all the industry can support.. any longer, and there's just no point to any of it. Companies like EA rely entirely on being able to support all consoles simultaneously. Which requires that all consoles be of approximately equal power, allowing for easy porting. Having a generational rift of three years or more prevents that. Multiplatform companies would drop Microsoft like a bad habit if they did something like that, and the console would die a very quick, very painful, death.

 

[Tenacious D]

Jedi: Well... here's hoping. The thing is that the hard drive will have a version of Linux running the system. But it can still be user upgradeable, and since it will apparently use laptop drives, I sure hope so because those guys aren't as cheap. Sony can give us an install CD/Blu-Ray disc with the Linux OS on it, and that would solve everything. We could get our bigger drive, install the OS just like a Mac, put in our user info, go to a Sony website to validate our upgrade and we'd be good to go. If they have any sense and want to be a customer friendly company, this is what they'll do. *crosses fingers*

Oh, and I say "just like a Mac" because PCs have a mind boggling variety of CPUs, motherboards, graphic cards, sound cards, network cards, yadda yadda, while Macs have basically a couple of families. I like my PC, but I do wish Apple had taken over the world. Life would be SO much easier!

 

[Jedi2016]

I think that Linux is only there for non-game stuff. Going online, streaming media, etc. I don't think it's "running the system" per se.. games will run off the disc and the hardware, using the hard drive only for caching, game saves, or whatever the thing's there for.

Me, I don't really care one way or another. I'll probably just install the thing and forget about it.

 

[Pebb]

Guys you can see photos of the PS3 system hud here:

http://boardsus.playstation.com/pla...ssage.id=308313&view=by_date_ascending&page=1

 

[Tenacious D]

Well..... (again), I don't know. The PS3 will be a terribly complex system. I'm not how tidy it would be to burn a master OS onto a PRAM chip to handle all that but we'll see. PRAM can be huge, and that's evidently where the OS resides on the 360. It does load very fast too.

I'm thinking that the easy thing for Sony to do is since Linux is probably going to be running anyway is to have it be the OS. It's fast and clean, and it can be upgraded too, if the opportunity and cleverness arises. But we'll see in May with the E3.

Oh, and TVR, thank's loads! That's an impressive bunch of screens. I really should race, but I'd like to surf juuuust a bit more...

 

[Sprite]

TVR Thanks for the pics I personally think that shot of motorstorm (one with the buggy) looks better than the FMV shown at E3, the depth of field look is cool.

 

[Pebb]

I always had faith in the PS3 graphics for games like Motorstorm. As well as the graphics being shown in the car tech demo, and if anyone thinks the 360's 3 cores makes it faster then the PS3.

Well no because the PS3 has more teraflops, while having 8 CPU's on a single chip. Plus the Graphics power mostly known by most is 2 times more powerful then 2 6800 Ultras in SLi mode last time I remember.

But the dashboard for the PS3 is the best I have ever seen for any console ever made, one more thing i still cannot track down any PS3 06 GDC conference video.

-----
@sprite: Glad I could help by showing you that link.

 

[LaBounti]

Linux will not be the PS3 OS. Sony will have their own and it will be the same as the one for psp but have an expanded list of features specifically for a console. A Linux os would make the ps3 too vulnerable. Jedi has the right idea and I agree with that. Who would want to wait for a full featured OS to boot every time you start the system just to play a game? The firmware would be closely related to psp so every time there is an update both systems would be up to date. If Linux were the OS they'd have to make one for psp aswell.

Edit: TVR I think the RSX just may be Nivida's new G71 from the 7900 GTX. The rumor started a long time ago and if the RSX were simply the G70 they would not have been so secretive about it and the chip would have been ready long ago. If it is the one from the 7900GTX then wow.

 

[Sprite]

one more thing i still cannot track down any PS3 06 GDC conference video.

Link

Well this is a vid of some more tech demos been show, it different to the one Solid posted, it shows the ducky demo being played, UT 2007 being played (not the sucky one with barrels), the fish demo being played (the water at the top is poor IMO, it jirks and looks stuttery). Thas it but its slightly new I guess.

 

[tha_con]

Actually, both Sega and Nintendo had upgrades to their consoles. Nintendo in a small way with a memory cartridge for the N64 which wasn't all that and a bag of chips, and Sega in a big way, with add-ons for the Genesis, with quite a bit of success. And Sony is saying that an upgradeable hard drive will be available. Now, it may not happen. I think 60 gigs is plenty, but then again I'm not aware of what Sony has in store for us to load onto it. If we get permission to back up our data onto our PCs and Macs, then 60 gigs should be plenty, but we'll see.

As for the porting issue, developers have been talking about porting to the PS3 from 360 for months now, since the 360 is out and the PS3 availability was uncertain. Plus they had 360 dev kits, and the PS3 kits still had to be brought to 1.0 release specs. I do expect that most games will be system specific, but I don't know. Porting may be a headache, but it saves a lot of development work, and only the bigger companies will be able to afford 360 and PS3 teams.

As for the development kits, I'm unaware that I said Sony didn't have any. Maybe because I didn't say they did have them, you assumed that I was saying they didn't exist? I'm unclear as to what exactly you're driving at, but I do know that even the big third party developers like Konami and Capcom have just recently received the full dev kits from Sony.

Sigh.

Any add on for the Sega Genisis was HARDLY successful. The numbers of expansion and add on's were GREATLY smaller than any game or console.

The "expansion" for the 64 was VERY short lived, and offered very little performance enhancement.

But what YOU are talking about, is the upgradability of the true hardware internals, not an expansion. THIS will never happen, again, for reasons I have stated above.

And you implied that Sony has not delivered developer tools with their SDK's, as tho MS has broken down barriers and provided the golden touch, when in fact, most develoeprs have recieved a great deal of informationon the Cell and RSX processors, with both Nvidia and IBM assisting Sony, delivering compliers, and vast documentation for developers.

As for porting, it will be significantly harder this go round if developers intend to use either console to their full potential, as all three are very different in terms of power, architecture, and functionality.

 

[Tenacious D]

Err... considering that many developers were working on games for the PS3 for a year or more, and I posted that Sony's golden child, Polyphony Digital, was apparently working on Gran Turismo 5 for perhaps two years now, Sony at the very least provided the programmers with preliminary technical info and beta SDKs. It's not like anyone could use a PS2 or XBox development kit.

 

[Pebb]

Link

Well this is a vid of some more tech demos been show, it different to the one Solid posted, it shows the ducky demo being played, UT 2007 being played (not the sucky one with barrels), the fish demo being played (the water at the top is poor IMO, it jirks and looks stuttery). Thas it but its slightly new I guess.

Thanxs sprite, like the old saying goes I scratch your back and you scratch my back.

 

[YSSMAN]

The screens look good, I'll admit it. But the word has been from the reporters from GDC that the PS3 is matching (if not slightly surpassing) the 360 in most instances, but of course, that could all change by the time the system launches (maybe) at the end of the year.

 

[Jedi2016]

As for porting, it will be significantly harder this go round if developers intend to use either console to their full potential, as all three are very different in terms of power, architecture, and functionality.

I agree. I think the multiplatform games for next-gen will be the "bottom of the barrel" in terms of actually utilizing the consoles.. lower quality graphics, etc.

It's actually encouraging when you look at multiplatform games that have been revealed so far. Medal of Honor, or any other EA title for that matter (since they're always multiplatform). Those are the worst-looking games we'll see.. everything else will be better.