PS3 General Discussion

I also agree the DVD will be a big problem in the future for MS, according to Sony (at the GDC), they're already using up an entire BD with the next "The Getaway" game, such is the detail they're rendering London in on PS3. You can already see games that simply would not fit on the 360... and thats world geometry and textures, not FMVs or excessive audio files or anything! GTA4 will be the same no doubt, also GT5... it will be embarassing for MS like carts were embarassing for the N64.

Lots of power and lots of fast RAM = HUUUGE textures and lots of them. Current gen games fill up a DVD as it is. MS is gonna need to pull some magic to make it look like they don't have a chronic storage shortage... uber insane compression techniques etc... but it will still choke the system compared to BD.
 
code_kev
This may shock you , but packing a 3 core power house cpu, 512mb of uber fast ram, and a top end ATI graphics card on a machine isn't cheap. As it is they lose money on every machine sold, so obviously they are gonna watch the pennies.
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It will be cheaper in the long run unlike the current Xbox which will be dead in a year or 2 because its just too damn expensive and the hardware can not be revised. They'd have to pay Intel and Nvidia to make newer cost efficient chips since MS doesnt own the technology. MS doesnt want to pay Intel or Nvidia. They coverd their butts this time by owning the technology for the CPU and GPU.

PS2's CPU and GPU were designed by Sony so they save millions and they combined both chips into one to save prodution costs. Thats why sony was going to use 2 cell chips, one for cpu and the second as a gpu. But they spent a little money for better graphics.
 
LaBounti
It will be cheaper in the long run unlike the current Xbox which will be dead in a year or 2 because its just too damn expensive and the hardware can not be revised. They'd have to pay Intel and Nvidia to make newer cost efficient chips since MS doesnt own the technology. MS doesnt want to pay Intel or Nvidia. They coverd their butts this time by owning the technology for the CPU and GPU.

PS2's CPU and GPU were designed by Sony so they save millions and they combined both chips into one to save prodution costs. Thats why sony was going to use 2 cell chips, one for cpu and the second as a gpu. But they spent a little money for better graphics.
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That's why i think Sony can make a better system, since they make half the stuff the systems include, they can save money. Just remember Sony makes computer also, so basically all they need is a video card. Thats were Nvidia comes in. Even though i am a ATi ownder and lover.
 
Hrm... I've been saying that a lot lately. ;)

That's an astute post amar212. I'll have to consider this.

Just googling for XBox marketshare, it does indeed look a little dimmer for Microsoft. It seems they have about 34%, Sony 50% (not 60% as Sony execs said at the GDC), and Nintendo the remainder at 16%. But with the Revolution hitting the market, the numbers slide Nintendo's way, with the 360 holding around 29%, Nintendo 21%, and Sony unchanged according to research projections.

And with Sony and Nintendo hyping the 360s shortcomings, those numbers look credible. I don't think the 360 is actually wimpy at all, but it will certainly be perceived that way.

I did buy an XBox when I'd intended to never do such a thing, in order to play Forza, Colin McRae Rally, Shenmue and Panzer Dragoon. I still think the XBoxes have the weakest game lineup of the consoles, but I'll probably buy a 360 to play Forza 2. It may well be out months before GT5. It may show, and it may be as huge an improvement over Forza 1 as GT4 over 3, but that was enough to still have me in awe of GT4.

We will have to see how things work out. Sony is definitely the king, and that king can't become overpowering or we'll all suffer from it. As was said before, we need a strong 360 in the market to keep everyone honest and the games the best ever.

And code_kev, if the above discussions had been boiled down to meet your specifications, it would look something like this:

"MS is the sUxOrs biz. The 360 is a ZERO because the JunkBox is LAME! PS3=WIN!11! MS=FAIL!!1!"

And that would sure be informative, wouldn't it? ;)
 
Master_Yoda
That's why i think Sony can make a better system, since they make half the stuff the systems include, they can save money. Just remember Sony makes computer also, so basically all they need is a video card. Thats were Nvidia comes in. Even though i am a ATi ownder and lover.
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Wait, isnt this EXACTLY the same arguement that has been made against the 360? If it is a PC that plugs into your TV, it would seem by your rationale that the PS3 is just the same...

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There is no question in anyone's mind as to wether or not Sony is going to maintain marketshare. Microsoft will never top Sony's Commanding Heights, maybe if hell freezes over and Sony ships something that sucks, but it will probably NEVER happen. All Microsoft can do is chip away at the marketshare split between Sony and Nintendo, and although it has been a slow process, they are doing it nonetheless. Marketshare is obviously a driving force in the economics of the issue, but clearly you do not have to be on top to successfully sell a product.

About the previous generation consoles:
I bought my PS2 the week that the GT3 packs shipped (was it 2000?). I've been pretty happy with the product, and I most certainly have gotten my $400 out of it. It works great as a DVD and CD player, and plays some great games. But, I've only added nine other titles to the collection, due mostly to the fact that I bought an XBOX.

...Why the XBOX? Well, IMO their titles better suited my tastes overall; Sports, Racing, and Action titles. Games like Madden, Splinter Cell, etc. may be multi-platform, but they were almost always better on the XBOX... Added to that was of course Halo, PGR, Top-Spin, Rallisport, etc. Other fruits appeared, such as the BioWare titles of KOTOR and Jade Empire, Morrowind, Ninja Gaiden, etc. Although I did not buy every single one, the XBOX took the main stage, while the PS2 was regulated to GT and DVD play.

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Once again, its a matter of preference, and people prefer different things. You may think I'm some backwards gamer hick for playing sports and racing titles (ooooh, he doesnt play too many RPGs! OMG, Where are the games like SOTC???)... But I dont care. I've gotten my money out of both playing games that I like, and thats all that matters.
 
Well, what about me? If I never buy my four other XBox games, I'll have paid $270 to play one game. :P

But... eh, I think Forza's worth it. Just like I'm primarily buying a 360 to play Forza 2. However the PS3 and Revolution library will have me drooling for years, I'm sure!

Oh, and you have to give credit to Microsoft. The XBox could have been... forget the Dreamcast, it was fairly successful. It could have been the 3DO or Jaguar! Instead, XBox has a third of the market. I'm playing Forza instead of my beloved GT4, and will for a while. As I wait for the awesome number 5...
 
Tenacious D
Well, what about me? If I never buy my four other XBox games, I'll have paid $270 to play one game. :P

But... eh, I think Forza's worth it. Just like I'm primarily buying a 360 to play Forza 2. However the PS3 and Revolution library will have me drooling for years, I'm sure!

Oh, and you have to give credit to Microsoft. The XBox could have been... forget the Dreamcast, it was fairly successful. It could have been the 3DO or Jaguar! Instead, XBox has a third of the market. I'm playing Forza instead of my beloved GT4, and will for a while. As I wait for the awesome number 5...
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Forza is fun to a point. To me GT4 never really gets boring, theres always somthing random hapening for me. Forza is a more challenging game, to a point. It's also i think harding to come by money in Forzam wich i don't really like,, since i'm more of a collecter then a racer.
 
YSSMAN
...Why the XBOX? Well, IMO their titles better suited my tastes overall; Sports, Racing, and Action titles. Games like Madden, Splinter Cell, etc. may be multi-platform, but they were almost always better on the XBOX... Added to that was of course Halo, PGR, Top-Spin, Rallisport, etc. Other fruits appeared, such as the BioWare titles of KOTOR and Jade Empire, Morrowind, Ninja Gaiden, etc. Although I did not buy every single one, the XBOX took the main stage, while the PS2 was regulated to GT and DVD play.
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That's I think a summary of the problem Microsoft finds itself in currently right there. Multiplatform games were almost always better on the Xbox, because it came out a year after the PS2 and had better specs. Still the PS2 remained more successful thanks to its DVD play and strong exclusives.

But the PS3 comes out a year after the 360 and looks to be the more advanced system technically (slightly faster, higher defs, more storage for games) and is likely to become the best platform for most multi-platform games, but it still also has all the strong exclusives and the DVD play advantage is repeated in the form of Blu-Ray support.

That said, I think amar212 greatly overstates things. The Xbox 360 will have its fair share of decent exclusives (games like Oblivion, Forza, PGR, Halo) and is likely to be a cheaper system nonetheless. The DVD and smaller HDD will mean some sacrifices will probably be made here and there, but no real big problems (compression techniques are getting pretty snazzy with these new algorhithmic textures). Also, the Xbox can still potentially be a lot cheaper than the PS3 for a while, which really does count for gamers - the GameCube was saved by halving its pricetag, and the Xbox can do this trick too.

I think it will share the lower end market with the Revolution, and benefit from a revival of the PC market, which will now have another few years where development costs will cover both PC and 360. What the Xbox loses in Japan, it will certainly partly make up in the U.S., and Europe is becoming increasingly Xbox friendly, I've noticed, as they are the most online of the bunch, and warmed to the first Xbox in the last two years. It will be very important for Sony to make sure that Europe isn't left behind in any way this time. Live has done some good work for Xbox.

However, PS3 does seem like it will achieve that unique 3rd generation domination status. And it is certainly the platform I myself am currently the most excited about. I think the Cell, above all things, will really allow for some cool and innovative stuff. Xbox came too early - most of us don't have a HD set just yet, but by the time the PS3 comes, we will.

But we'll see what happens.
 
You see how differen people can be, to me GT4 got boring faster than any of the previous GT's, the games directionless and pretty lifeless as a game imho. I do llike the game, enough to reccomend it as a purchase, but it's given me the least ammount of playing time out of all the GT's I've owned barring GT:C.
 
Remember how geeky it was to play Nintendo? Then how cool it was to have SNES? Then how you were teh roXorz to have the PS2 when it launched? Then you were the n00b when Xbox came out and you hadn't sold your launch PS2 to buyt it yet? It's a crazy, crazy cycle....

Now think of the kids of this generation. They'll be growing up with the PS3 and Xbox 360 and some even the Nintendo Revolution. Sure, maybe you're scared because that means that all they'll do will be playing video games. Or, you'll think how cool it is that we can even make such utterly awesome machines. These same kids will ask, "what kind of games did YOU play when you were my age?"

Games with 8-bit sprites.... lol

I think this next generation is just gonna rock. I really don't care who wins as long as they keep churning out the graphics and the games like MGS4 and Halo 3 (which is rumored to be cancelled but that's for another forum/thread).
 
Well, it is not overstating. I'm not speaking in terms "bad-worse" or anything like it.

I'm just trying to point out the problems which will soon become reality for current 360 hardware. As I written in the novel above, the lack of HD high-capacity media will certanly become a great problem.

Not for exclusives and so on - but for true competition with Sony. I personally do not carre at all about that. There are going to be great games for 360 and I'm going to buy them, as well as I enjoy in PGR3, DoA4 or extremly fun and beautiiful Knockout Kings 3. I will buy Forza 2 and Halo and spare myself from Oblivion since I really do not like it - but that is matter of taste.

The Microsoft's decision to go first on market - even in clear situation that they were left out key component for making their new console "True HD" and "Ture Next-Gen" - will become a key issue in less then 18 months from now.

All my novel just lead to one thing - I expect the new Xbox in very short time - maybe even in late 2007 to be shown. It is not matter of real 360 specs and possibilities, games and so on. It is matter of market. And it is not about me, you or all other people who are buying every new console, because we love games. Nobody in the indistry really thinks about us in the first place.

If majority of consumers decides to buy PS3 and Revo - both with their own speeccialitites - 360 will stay as a console that is "just a console". It will not have HD drive, it will not have motion-controller. And it will not be new.

If this problem wiith "360 shortages" persist for another month, I will even tend to beleieve that MS is preparing something big and using this time just to not expand the user-base because it will be more expenisve to replace or whatever with few millions more sold. But this last one is a pure speculation and it will probably never happen.
 
well, whatever happens to the 360, I hope that Playstation has some competition from Nintendo, I cant wait till E3, that show will rock with Sony and Nintendo goodness.

BTW here is a high res screen of that all forgoton Dragon sim :D Lair.



Personally I think it looks a bit Whack, but we will see what its like to play at E3.
 
Im not sure, it seriously needs some AA. But from the E3 demo shown, the animations looked good, and im glad they have shown the HUD too. But the harness looks like its just stuck on, and the lack of AA makes the dragon model has seams runnig down the side of it.
 
live4speed
You see how differen people can be, to me GT4 got boring faster than any of the previous GT's, the games directionless and pretty lifeless as a game imho. I do llike the game, enough to reccomend it as a purchase, but it's given me the least ammount of playing time out of all the GT's I've owned barring GT:C.
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I agree. I certainly got bored with GT4 quicker than GT3. I just found them too similar to each other. Ok, it had more cars, tracks and better graphics, but it was just more of the same all the time over and over IMO.

I'm hoping GT5 will be different as it will be on a next generation console. You won't get as bored quickly because it is a different experience. I started to hate arcade racing games on the Xbox/PS2, but PGR3 brought me back into liking them again because of this new experience on the 360. I'm hoping the PS3 will be able to do that to GT5. PD may make the game more interesting anyway, we just don't know.
 
That dragon game screen looks brilliant.

It looks worse then other screen shots of PS3 stuff, as it's probably in game, rather then a mock up. The seams in the textures are so slight man, you can NOT expect it to look 100% perfect.
 
code_kev
That dragon game screen looks brilliant.

It looks worse then other screen shots of PS3 stuff, as it's probably in game, rather then a mock up. The seams in the textures are so slight man, you can NOT expect it to look 100% perfect.
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For the second time only on GTP, I am agreeing with you. (MSN doesn't count).


Though I don't think it really lookse "worse" than other screens, I think it's more of the factor that there's really nothing but the dragon to look at...which is kinda boring...but it looks sweet anyway. I think if we see like, 10 of these dragons on screen, with fire and smoke flying everywhere...then it'll be pretty sweet...but as it stands...I think the game might be really boring, lol.
 
I think some of the textures could be better, but I think some of you havent noticed that it's also raining in that pic which will effect the picture and make it look hazier than it really is. In motion I think that dragon would look superb, however I'm inclined to agree with tha_con, the game it'self doesn't sound like it'll be anything to get excited over.
 
RedWolfRacer
Now think of the kids of this generation. They'll be growing up with the PS3 and Xbox 360 and some even the Nintendo Revolution. Sure, maybe you're scared because that means that all they'll do will be playing video games. Or, you'll think how cool it is that we can even make such utterly awesome machines. These same kids will ask, "what kind of games did YOU play when you were my age?"

Games with 8-bit sprites.... lol
.
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You're making me feel old. I got my PS1 when i was 17 1 month after it came out. Those were the good old days. you could just walk into a store and they would more than likely have a new system.
 
Arwin
That's I think a summary of the problem Microsoft finds itself in currently right there. Multiplatform games were almost always better on the Xbox, because it came out a year after the PS2 and had better specs. Still the PS2 remained more successful thanks to its DVD play and strong exclusives.

But the PS3 comes out a year after the 360 and looks to be the more advanced system technically (slightly faster, higher defs, more storage for games) and is likely to become the best platform for most multi-platform games, but it still also has all the strong exclusives and the DVD play advantage is repeated in the form of Blu-Ray support.

That said, I think amar212 greatly overstates things. The Xbox 360 will have its fair share of decent exclusives (games like Oblivion, Forza, PGR, Halo) and is likely to be a cheaper system nonetheless. The DVD and smaller HDD will mean some sacrifices will probably be made here and there, but no real big problems (compression techniques are getting pretty snazzy with these new algorhithmic textures). Also, the Xbox can still potentially be a lot cheaper than the PS3 for a while, which really does count for gamers - the GameCube was saved by halving its pricetag, and the Xbox can do this trick too.

I think it will share the lower end market with the Revolution, and benefit from a revival of the PC market, which will now have another few years where development costs will cover both PC and 360. What the Xbox loses in Japan, it will certainly partly make up in the U.S., and Europe is becoming increasingly Xbox friendly, I've noticed, as they are the most online of the bunch, and warmed to the first Xbox in the last two years. It will be very important for Sony to make sure that Europe isn't left behind in any way this time. Live has done some good work for Xbox.

However, PS3 does seem like it will achieve that unique 3rd generation domination status. And it is certainly the platform I myself am currently the most excited about. I think the Cell, above all things, will really allow for some cool and innovative stuff. Xbox came too early - most of us don't have a HD set just yet, but by the time the PS3 comes, we will.

But we'll see what happens.
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What a great post. I agree 100%. 👍

live4speed
You see how differen people can be, to me GT4 got boring faster than any of the previous GT's, the games directionless and pretty lifeless as a game imho. I do llike the game, enough to reccomend it as a purchase, but it's given me the least ammount of playing time out of all the GT's I've owned barring GT:C.
Click to expand...
Another great take. I thought it was like a movie that was over-hyped. You go in after a very long wait, expecting to see that amazing epic, but afterewards, you feel a bit shortchanged. GT4 was like that for me. Fortunately, I got one of my coworker and my brothers to buy copies of GT4 over the weekend. I played it for the first time this year just last night and guess what, it was FUN! I sucked pretty bad at it, but I'm pretty sure I'll play it at least once a week now.
 
amar212, good posts... I might not completely agree with you, but you do make some great points.

I'm not completely sure if HD is going to necessiarily play the largest role in the success of the 360 or not. The HDTV switchover in the US will not occour untill the end of 2007, and because most people do not have any knowlege of HDTV technology, they probably would not be able to take advantage of the HD specs that the PS3 or 360 could pump out. But, if the 360 has proven anything, it has greatly increased the interest in HDTV technology, and has had a small effect on driving prices downwards as interests rise.

But as the definition of "Next-gen" comes into question, it is probably something that will be debated well into 2007. The 360 may not be leagues ahead of the current 7800-powered PCs these days, but they are good-looking nonetheless. The PS3 may be slightly better looking by days end, but as it has been said time and time again, we are looking at several years down the road before the differences between the two are going to be very noticeable.

The "new" 360 may be on the way, but as to it's specifications, I'm not sure. Peter Moore seems to be comitted to the idea of an attachable drive, despite the fact that the internals of the 360 did include several (I belive PCI Express) expansion slots that could be used to change the 360 as the technology changes. We will see, but it is anyone's guess at this point.
 
I love your posts amar, but seriously, it's too expensive to come out with a new system, and if Microsoft tried to do it next year, there would be chaos and death. If anything, I see 3 things happening:

1. Microsoft stays with the 360 till the end of the cycle in four years, for better or worse.

2. Microsoft provides an upgrade to stay competitive with the PS3 and high end PCs.

3. Microsoft scraps the 360 entirely, and there's chaos and death. ;)

I still think #1 is the answer. It's still a mondo powerful system and will be for years. Microsoft might go into an upgrade path, but I'm not sure it's necessary, especially since I doubt that Sony's games will blow away anything on the 360. I think they'll be very similar forever.
 
They will probably stay with the same system for better or worse. I read the CNETs comparison thingy, and they said that if MS upgrades the system then customers with older 360 will not be able to play the newer games; or something along that line. I cant exactly recall everything...:indiff:
 

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