PS4 Overall Volume (Still) Too LowPS4 

  • Thread starter Gr8_Lakes
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chopz
What device (mic) did you use to measure the signal?
Click to expand...
Its a smartphone app (Audizr), as to be honest for a title to title comparison its good enough and I really couldn't be bothered to set-up a mic, DI interface and DAW to do it.
 
Sharpen your pitch-forks people, I'm here...


Sorry I haven't responded sooner, I was unaware of this thread.

The reason the output level on PCARS2 is low is due to it conforming to the PS4 loudness standards.

For those who speak 'techno-babble' the standard states that the LKFS should be at -24 (+/-2), the standard is designed (in theory) to stop users constantly having to change volumes when switching games or from console to TV, etc. - in theory it's sound (pardon the pun), and the measurement was kind of designed to increase dynamic ranges in games (difference between quietest and loudest segments) because it allows you to have short 'loud' sections without maxing the reading. However - for racing titles it's not so good, because you have a constant very loud sound - the engine, meaning we had to reduce the overall gain.


Could I ask what headphones you guys are having issues with (so I can get some to test with) - it appears there might be a few issues:
1) Loudness (you'd like to be able to increase the volume beyond the current max)
2) Voice-chat / game mix (you need a method of setting this - be that just by changing the game mix up or otherwise).


I'll look into what we can do to fix the issue, without falling foul of the standards, breaking the game, etc. - I promise nothing though as the final decision will be out of my hands and given patch release schedules it may take time to reach you even then.



In terms of the other points / issues raised on this thread:

What does the "Extra LFE" do...

It takes a mix of the 7.0 main speaker feeds (the internal mix is 7.1), passes this through a filter (to roll off high-frequencies above 80Hz) and adds that into the LFE channel.
The extra LFE processing only occurs for 5.1 and 7.1 output modes.
The default value is 25 because that represents what was preset before we exposed the feature in a patch.
If you're hearing distortion on headphones with this turned up that would mean the headphones are taking a 5.1 or 7.1 signal from the PS4 and then recombining that, including the .1 somehow.

The distortion might indicate that the headphones can't handle that amount of bass, because effectively turning it up will increase the bass in the output signal or it could be due to some kind of other processing weirdness (if it's not volume breakup) - again if you could let me know what headphones you're using hopefully I can get a pair and test here.

What settings do these have (any settings in the PS4 menus?), can you select what the audio mix going to them is - e.g. stereo / 5.1 / etc.
One thing to try would be doing Settings -> Sound and Screen -> Audio Output Settings -> Primary Output Port : Set this to Digital Out (Optical)
Then with no options ticked (Dolby/DTS/AAC) your output is stereo, also set the Audio Format (Priority) to match - linear PCM being stereo.
You can also try by forcing the primary to HDMI out of the PS4 to send as 5.1 and see if that helps - internally the game will process the various output modes differently somewhat from the headphones built in downmix.

If you're outputting stereo, selecting "headphone mode" in game will have an effect - you might find this a preferable virtual 7.1 downmix to that built into your headphones. A lot of 7.1 downmixes are designed from a movie standpoint - assuming that most of the action/audio is going to be towards the front of the scene.

Differences between versions (PC/PS4/XB1) for audio...

Other than the volume standardisation (also applied on XBox / in their standards) the main difference would just be the encoding format used for assets - PS4 and XB1 use their platform proprietary encoding (frequency domain based stuff - similar to MP3) and PC uses ADPCM (no decidcated hardware decoders on PC and memory isn't as much of an issue). However some of the newer car engines (using the granular REV engine) should be identical across platforms.
 
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Paul Scargill
Sharpen your pitch-forks people, I'm here...


Sorry I haven't responded sooner, I was unaware of this thread.

The reason the output level on PCARS2 is low is due to it conforming to the PS4 loudness standards.

For those who speak 'techno-babble' the standard states that the LKFS should be at -24 (+/-2), the standard is designed (in theory) to stop users constantly having to change volumes when switching games or from console to TV, etc. - in theory it's sound (pardon the pun), and the measurement was kind of designed to increase dynamic ranges in games (difference between quietest and loudest segments) because it allows you to have short 'loud' sections without maxing the reading. However - for racing titles it's not so good, because you have a constant very loud sound - the engine, meaning we had to reduce the overall gain.


Could I ask what headphones you guys are having issues with (so I can get some to test with) - it appears there might be a few issues:
1) Loudness (you'd like to be able to increase the volume beyond the current max)
2) Voice-chat / game mix (you need a method of setting this - be that just by changing the game mix up or otherwise).


I'll look into what we can do to fix the issue, without falling foul of the standards, breaking the game, etc. - I promise nothing though as the final decision will be out of my hands and given patch release schedules it may take time to reach you even then.



In terms of the other points / issues raised on this thread:

What does the "Extra LFE" do...

It takes a mix of the 7.0 main speaker feeds (the internal mix is 7.1), passes this through a filter (to roll off high-frequencies above 80Hz) and adds that into the LFE channel.
The extra LFE processing only occurs for 5.1 and 7.1 output modes.
The default value is 25 because that represents what was preset before we exposed the feature in a patch.
If you're hearing distortion on headphones with this turned up that would mean the headphones are taking a 5.1 or 7.1 signal from the PS4 and then recombining that, including the .1 somehow.

The distortion might indicate that the headphones can't handle that amount of bass, because effectively turning it up will increase the bass in the output signal or it could be due to some kind of other processing weirdness (if it's not volume breakup) - again if you could let me know what headphones you're using hopefully I can get a pair and test here.

What settings do these have (any settings in the PS4 menus?), can you select what the audio mix going to them is - e.g. stereo / 5.1 / etc.
One thing to try would be doing Settings -> Sound and Screen -> Audio Output Settings -> Primary Output Port : Set this to Digital Out (Optical)
Then with no options ticked (Dolby/DTS/AAC) your output is stereo, also set the Audio Format (Priority) to match - linear PCM being stereo.
You can also try by forcing the primary to HDMI out of the PS4 to send as 5.1 and see if that helps - internally the game will process the various output modes differently somewhat from the headphones built in downmix.

If you're outputting stereo, selecting "headphone mode" in game will have an effect - you might find this a preferable virtual 7.1 downmix to that built into your headphones. A lot of 7.1 downmixes are designed from a movie standpoint - assuming that most of the action/audio is going to be towards the front of the scene.

Differences between versions (PC/PS4/XB1) for audio...

Other than the volume standardisation (also applied on XBox / in their standards) the main difference would just be the encoding format used for assets - PS4 and XB1 use their platform proprietary encoding (frequency domain based stuff - similar to MP3) and PC uses ADPCM (no decidcated hardware decoders on PC and memory isn't as much of an issue). However some of the newer car engines (using the granular REV engine) should be identical across platforms.
Click to expand...
Wow, thank you for the detailed response. Myself, I have two sets of headphones. The Sony Gold wireless, and the Logitech Artemis G933.

Hopefully this is a resolvable issue since other games need to conform to the same volume standards set forth by Sony. My experience: Project Cars 2 is much quieter compared to every other game I own. Actually, did Project Cars 1 have to conform to those same standards? Because Project Cars 1 has much higher volume levels than Project Cars 2.

Thank you so much for looking into it.

As a side-note, PCars 2 is my favorite game on the planet. I've invested a lot of time and money into a homemade sim-rig, wheel, upgraded rim(s), upgraded pedals - with extra mods, button box(s), tablet(s), apps, Buttkicker, the list just goes on. So to invest so much into one game, and have the volume disappointingly low, UGHH!!! I'm sure you can appreciate how frustrating that can be. Especially when I can hear the other games (that I don't like nearly as well) much better. Thanks again for responding. It's such a relief to know somebody has finally heard our cries. :cheers:
 
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Paul Scargill
Sharpen your pitch-forks people, I'm here...


Sorry I haven't responded sooner, I was unaware of this thread.

The reason the output level on PCARS2 is low is due to it conforming to the PS4 loudness standards.

For those who speak 'techno-babble' the standard states that the LKFS should be at -24 (+/-2), the standard is designed (in theory) to stop users constantly having to change volumes when switching games or from console to TV, etc. - in theory it's sound (pardon the pun), and the measurement was kind of designed to increase dynamic ranges in games (difference between quietest and loudest segments) because it allows you to have short 'loud' sections without maxing the reading. However - for racing titles it's not so good, because you have a constant very loud sound - the engine, meaning we had to reduce the overall gain.


Could I ask what headphones you guys are having issues with (so I can get some to test with) - it appears there might be a few issues:
1) Loudness (you'd like to be able to increase the volume beyond the current max)
2) Voice-chat / game mix (you need a method of setting this - be that just by changing the game mix up or otherwise).


I'll look into what we can do to fix the issue, without falling foul of the standards, breaking the game, etc. - I promise nothing though as the final decision will be out of my hands and given patch release schedules it may take time to reach you even then.



In terms of the other points / issues raised on this thread:

What does the "Extra LFE" do...

It takes a mix of the 7.0 main speaker feeds (the internal mix is 7.1), passes this through a filter (to roll off high-frequencies above 80Hz) and adds that into the LFE channel.
The extra LFE processing only occurs for 5.1 and 7.1 output modes.
The default value is 25 because that represents what was preset before we exposed the feature in a patch.
If you're hearing distortion on headphones with this turned up that would mean the headphones are taking a 5.1 or 7.1 signal from the PS4 and then recombining that, including the .1 somehow.

The distortion might indicate that the headphones can't handle that amount of bass, because effectively turning it up will increase the bass in the output signal or it could be due to some kind of other processing weirdness (if it's not volume breakup) - again if you could let me know what headphones you're using hopefully I can get a pair and test here.

What settings do these have (any settings in the PS4 menus?), can you select what the audio mix going to them is - e.g. stereo / 5.1 / etc.
One thing to try would be doing Settings -> Sound and Screen -> Audio Output Settings -> Primary Output Port : Set this to Digital Out (Optical)
Then with no options ticked (Dolby/DTS/AAC) your output is stereo, also set the Audio Format (Priority) to match - linear PCM being stereo.
You can also try by forcing the primary to HDMI out of the PS4 to send as 5.1 and see if that helps - internally the game will process the various output modes differently somewhat from the headphones built in downmix.

If you're outputting stereo, selecting "headphone mode" in game will have an effect - you might find this a preferable virtual 7.1 downmix to that built into your headphones. A lot of 7.1 downmixes are designed from a movie standpoint - assuming that most of the action/audio is going to be towards the front of the scene.

Differences between versions (PC/PS4/XB1) for audio...

Other than the volume standardisation (also applied on XBox / in their standards) the main difference would just be the encoding format used for assets - PS4 and XB1 use their platform proprietary encoding (frequency domain based stuff - similar to MP3) and PC uses ADPCM (no decidcated hardware decoders on PC and memory isn't as much of an issue). However some of the newer car engines (using the granular REV engine) should be identical across platforms.
Click to expand...

Hi Paul - I have 2 problems with the PC2 sound. PC1 sound was perfect for me - loud and involving and presumably it met the required PS4 standards! It also gave superb results with my Buttkicker (tactile transducer) - it sounded and felt like I was in a real race car.

PC2 is so quiet and uninvolving - I just want it to be as much like PC1 as possible. With PC2 I get no results whatsoever with my Buttkicker (the big Advance model) or with my Aura AST2B Pro4 bass shakers (tactile transducers).

PC1 worked fine with the following setup - PS4 linked to 5.1 audio system via optical lead. TV linked to PS4 via HDMI. Tactile Transducers fed with audio signal via the TV headphone output. NB my audio system does not have a splittable 0.1 channel and the PS4 has less audio connections than the PS3 so I switched to that setup for PS4 which worked perfectly with PC1 - sadly I cannot get decent sound out of PC2 and I haven't been able to get any tactile transducer effects at all.

Obviously I don't want to have to invest in new equipment to fix something that wasn't broken in PC1! Is there any chance of getting a PC1 style mix and volumes back for PC2?
 
Paul Scargill
Sharpen your pitch-forks people, I'm here...


Sorry I haven't responded sooner, I was unaware of this thread.

The reason the output level on PCARS2 is low is due to it conforming to the PS4 loudness standards.

For those who speak 'techno-babble' the standard states that the LKFS should be at -24 (+/-2), the standard is designed (in theory) to stop users constantly having to change volumes when switching games or from console to TV, etc. - in theory it's sound (pardon the pun), and the measurement was kind of designed to increase dynamic ranges in games (difference between quietest and loudest segments) because it allows you to have short 'loud' sections without maxing the reading. However - for racing titles it's not so good, because you have a constant very loud sound - the engine, meaning we had to reduce the overall gain.


Could I ask what headphones you guys are having issues with (so I can get some to test with) - it appears there might be a few issues:
1) Loudness (you'd like to be able to increase the volume beyond the current max)
2) Voice-chat / game mix (you need a method of setting this - be that just by changing the game mix up or otherwise).


I'll look into what we can do to fix the issue, without falling foul of the standards, breaking the game, etc. - I promise nothing though as the final decision will be out of my hands and given patch release schedules it may take time to reach you even then.
Click to expand...

Pitch Fork sharpened...

This is a strange answer. So was PCARS 1 not conforming to the PS4 loudness standards?

Also i dont think any games are conforming to the PS4 loudness standards as any game i try is far far louder than PCARS 2?

Also why do you cut so much low end? Basically the game is all over powering mids meaning were not getting any proper growls pops and bangs etc. My sub barely works with PCARS 2 yet other games it shakes the full street.
 
Harry Freq
Pitch Fork sharpened...

This is a strange answer. So was PCARS 1 not conforming to the PS4 loudness standards?

Also i dont think any games are conforming to the PS4 loudness standards as any game i try is far far louder than PCARS 2?

Also why do you cut so much low end? Basically the game is all over powering mids meaning were not getting any proper growls pops and bangs etc. My sub barely works with PCARS 2 yet other games it shakes the full street.
Click to expand...
I believe (but am not 100% sure) that the standards may have changed.

Sure I read that someplace, but can't for the life of me remember where.

Edited to add - not been able to find anything about a change to the standard, but did find that Sony released a new tool to set-up audio to meet the standard after the original PC had come out. which may be a factor.

https://www.audiomediainternational...y-taylor-on-audio-mastering-for-playstation-4

The -24 LKFS standard that Sony set is, I believe a dB value, which would tie in very closely to the level I find comfortable with PC2 (-25dB on my DA-2400ES), however given this information I can certainly say that a lot of titles are not even remotely close to meeting this standard.

No way are titles like COD, GR wild lands and TT Isle of Man even in the same ballpark, with -37dB what I find is needed to be close to the same overall loudness as PC2, Gravel and GTS (and -37dB was around what I used to run for PC1) with Assetto Corsa splitting the difference and running at around -27/-28 dB.

@Paul Scargill - In terms of my own set-up and the results I get from PC2, I run LPCM via HDMI into a Sony DA-2400ES receiver into a set of B&W fronts, and Monitor Audio for the centre and rears, with a Monitor Audio Bronze sub. I split the sub out to then feed the sub and a Reckhorn 2.1 Tactile amp and bass shaker. I do get output from both my Sub and Tactile, but its of a lower level than with the original PC (taking into account the overall difference in loudness).
 
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I. Just. Want. To. Hear. My. Car. Please. Please. Pretty. Please.
Forget all the mumble jumble, sit your devs down and fix the problem that's been pissing me off since day 1. Such a good sim, but to drop the ball on such an important part of any game is sacrilegious........imo. I opened AC today for the first time in a while, left my headphone volume the same and almost shat my pants it was sooo loud in comparison. Six months is a long time not to fix an important and seemingly easy coding adjustment. Maybe PCars3?
 
Mike Lobban
I. Just. Want. To. Hear. My. Car. Please. Please. Pretty. Please.
Forget all the mumble jumble, sit your devs down and fix the problem that's been pissing me off since day 1. Such a good sim, but to drop the ball on such an important part of any game is sacrilegious........imo. I opened AC today for the first time in a while, left my headphone volume the same and almost shat my pants it was sooo loud in comparison. Six months is a long time not to fix an important and seemingly easy coding adjustment. Maybe PCars3?
Click to expand...
I hate the start of AC when playing late at night with headphones on...**** myself on start up ever time. Then before the race for some reason when the race is loaded you hear a big bang and again **** myself. Not sure what the hell its meant to be but its about twice as loud as anything in PCARS 2 or so it seems.
 
Harry Freq
I hate the start of AC when playing late at night with headphones on...**** myself on start up ever time. Then before the race for some reason when the race is loaded you hear a big bang and again **** myself. Not sure what the hell its meant to be but its about twice as loud as anything in PCARS 2 or so it seems.
Click to expand...

Oh come on man, it's when the crane releases the car in the paddock from 10m high! :lol: Sometimes you see it still wobbling a bit when the session is loaded!
 
Mike Lobban
I. Just. Want. To. Hear. My. Car. Please. Please. Pretty. Please.
Forget all the mumble jumble, sit your devs down and fix the problem that's been pissing me off since day 1. Such a good sim, but to drop the ball on such an important part of any game is sacrilegious........imo. I opened AC today for the first time in a while, left my headphone volume the same and almost shat my pants it was sooo loud in comparison. Six months is a long time not to fix an important and seemingly easy coding adjustment. Maybe PCars3?
Click to expand...
I think we need to fill out form t55w1890, and sub section fu321. Submit it to bl4ck h0le dept. they will then send instructions how to use our hydrospanners to adjust the alluvial dampness.
It's what my competitors do when they can't fix a customers machine. If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle em with bull crap. It's also why I keep getting busier, I keep it simple when I explain what needs to be done.
 
I'm curious as to whether Paul Scargill was the sound developer for PC1 as well, and if he can shed any light on what changed and why.

As involved as his explanation was, not one word of it made any reference to how other games can be so much louder. Or why PC2 was so much quieter than PC1. In fact, I'm curious to whether he actually acknowledges they are...
 
simsimsheree
I'm curious as to whether Paul Scargill was the sound developer for PC1 as well, and if he can shed any light on what changed and why.

As involved as his explanation was, not one word of it made any reference to how other games can be so much louder. Or why PC2 was so much quieter than PC1. In fact, I'm curious to whether he actually acknowledges they are...
Click to expand...
Interestingly Paul Scargill just made a post on the official forums today on an old thread about the awful sound and copy and pasted his post from here days ago on there. Someone is at the wind up rather than it being a SMS employee.
 
I’m pretty sure PC1 was not conforming to the current standards as that game was WAY too loud on my TV. PC2 seems to have been perfectly tuned for my use (regular TV with no sound system) as I can leave my volume level the same between watching TV and playing this or any other game.
 
@Paul Scargill

Nice to see that someone actually hears community.
On a side all of technical information you said, thank you, but there is still only this quote to say:

Mike Lobban
I. Just. Want. To. Hear. My. Car. Please.
Click to expand...



My main orientation in racing games is sound of car's engine.

Now when I finally got a wheel, still can't enjoy in great sim you made, only this, for you, tiny tweak is missing...

So please give us that pleasure of "octane show"... :)
 
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In the first game, you could clearly hear the track side commentary, sometimes in the language of the country.

I can't really make out in the new game, anyone else noticed, quite enjoyed listening too it.
 
Am I imagining things or is the overall volume louder now? I noticed I've been setting the USB music player to a higher volume setting for what seems like the same balance.
 
Not sure about that but I do know they haven't increased the volume of the FC car yet, so I'm assuming they never will. Drives great at least.
 
Wolfe
Am I imagining things or is the overall volume louder now? I noticed I've been setting the USB music player to a higher volume setting for what seems like the same balance.
Click to expand...
Yup, they've ramped up the overall volume.....from one or two patches before IMO. Since then, I always have to turn down the game's volume from my regular TV volume. I think they've ramped it up a bit too much.
 
davidt33
I think they've ramped it up a bit too much.
Click to expand...

I guess you could turn it down, what was wrong before was I could turn up my headphones to maximum and the game/engine noises were far too quiet. So much so I have not played the game in a long time.

GT Sport I can turn up my headphones to maximum and it is probably a tiny bit too loud so I turn them down a little. GT Sport settings seem good to me.
 
Bealdor
What are your Audio settings showing ingame?
Click to expand...
I haven't changed them since update 2.0 or 3.0, as I recall:
Code: 
Master:          100
Menu:             90
Menu Music:        0
Player Engine:    90
Opponent Engine:  90
General Car:      90
Tyre:            100
Collision:        90
Track Surface:   100
Environment:     100
Sound Effects:    90
Pit Radio:       100
Headphone Mix:    ON
 
Wolfe
I haven't changed them since update 2.0 or 3.0, as I recall:
Code: 
Master:          100
Menu:             90
Menu Music:        0
Player Engine:    90
Opponent Engine:  90
General Car:      90
Tyre:            100
Collision:        90
Track Surface:   100
Environment:     100
Sound Effects:    90
Pit Radio:       100
Headphone Mix:    ON
Click to expand...

Could you take another look please? IIRC the default values were changed with patch 4 or 5.
The old 100 value should be a 25 now to give you more headroom to increase volume.
 
I've had my tactile transducers (2 AuraSound Pros - one under my racing seat and one on the back) for a few weeks now and just found this thread after looking for enlightment on the relatively low amount of feedback I get from them with PC2 versus what I would expect and other racing titles. I am playing on PS4.

There is certainly no issue as to the strength of the amp driving the shakers. Playing music, action movies etc through them while sitting in the chair at anything even approaching half volume provides an overwhelming amount of feedback, but the only thing I really feel strongly driving in PC2 is the thud of gear changes. If I really crank up the volume to the shakers I can finally get some decent engine rumble but the gear change thump is just unbearable at this volume and it is tied in with the engine volume in the settings. From what I've tried a few cars give semi decent engine rumble feedback, I think it was the Bentley GT3 car and a some of the old muscle type road cars.

Playing around with the LFE slider in settings seems to do nothing for me. I've had it at 100 and it seems to be no different than 0. Not sure if this is because of my setup or if it just plain doesn't do anything in the PS4 version of the game.

I play exclusively with closed headphones (Beyerdynamic DT770 Pros) and actually like the sound in the game for the most part, so it's a shame the low end isn't there.
 
jof
I've had my tactile transducers (2 AuraSound Pros - one under my racing seat and one on the back) for a few weeks now and just found this thread after looking for enlightment on the relatively low amount of feedback I get from them with PC2 versus what I would expect and other racing titles. I am playing on PS4.

There is certainly no issue as to the strength of the amp driving the shakers. Playing music, action movies etc through them while sitting in the chair at anything even approaching half volume provides an overwhelming amount of feedback, but the only thing I really feel strongly driving in PC2 is the thud of gear changes. If I really crank up the volume to the shakers I can finally get some decent engine rumble but the gear change thump is just unbearable at this volume and it is tied in with the engine volume in the settings. From what I've tried a few cars give semi decent engine rumble feedback, I think it was the Bentley GT3 car and a some of the old muscle type road cars.

Playing around with the LFE slider in settings seems to do nothing for me. I've had it at 100 and it seems to be no different than 0. Not sure if this is because of my setup or if it just plain doesn't do anything in the PS4 version of the game.

I play exclusively with closed headphones (Beyerdynamic DT770 Pros) and actually like the sound in the game for the most part, so it's a shame the low end isn't there.
Click to expand...

Have you tried doing a comparison with PC1? If not I strongly recommend buying a copy of the Complete Edition (Game of the year) just to experience the superb tactile effects and great audio.

I don't even bother switching my tactile system on when I play PC2, because the current game is so underwhelming - a real shame because I love PC2 in other respects and this was an aspect that was class leading in PC1 - difficult to understand how SMS could go from class leader to bottom of the class, sitting in the corner with the Dunce's cap on!
 
PS4 has 3 sound modes. Linear, Dolby, and Dolby DTS.
The volume difference from linear to either dolby is incredible.
Please try dolby.
 

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