PS4K - Revealed Alongside PS4 Slim as PS4 Pro - General DiscussionPS4

[GTPorsche]

It's it's a graphical bug and this was quoted from them that leaked the information stated.. the games will in fact work for the PS4 but with considerable sacrifices made to performance

No, it's a concession to circumvent shortcomings of the console hardware.

 

[Mr Latte]

What we know so far....
Lots of people come up with theories and all we have to do is wait for confirmation of the situation. Have my own thoughts but really trying to stay sensible, we do not have long to wait and find out.

• Is it likely Sony will abandon the current MASSIVE PS4 installed user base, would developers would want to?
• Does potential to update the PS4 experience for 4KTV quality and streaming services one people might want?
  
• Would improved HDR image quality and possibly 4K Blu Ray with Dolby Atmos also be desired?
• Do we disregard for Sony the potential media/streaming and additional revenue possibilities this would bring with their "ULTRA" 4K streaming services or Netflix etc
• If PS 4.5 can include 4K Blu Ray it could be a major benefit for Sony and excellent unit for such.
• Will some games have PS4.5 performance benefits or only visual benefits?
• Is it likely to expect a 4.5 new architecture could ensure and maintain same fps in all games but at 4K resolution?
• Does the two tier system really make sense in offering some form of standard and premum PS4 experience?
• Is it more likely PS 4.5 may just use up-scaling to 4K and give the HDR picture quality benefits?
• Might PS4.5 have ZERO effect on VR and is aimed solely at 4KTV users?
  

 

[CSLACR]

I think the more likely scenario isn't Sony pushing out the PS4 right now, it's over the next 2-3 years as the console ages. Developers will have to make use of the newer system's abilities, to make competitive games, and quality on the lesser system is likely to be a fading concern in dev as time progresses.
So it's not right now original PS4 owners need to worry about, it's the 1-3 year area.

 

[andyparks]

Looks like more 🤬 he now says he can't discuss it any more

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=199944918&postcount=10058

 

[Laffinassasin]

I just find it hard to believe that retail have all this information nearly a year before launch?

 

[Eh Team]

Found a good discussion on this sort of topic about consoles having a newer and slightly better version. It mainly sort of focuses on the idea around it, but the PS4K is sort of the one they talk about the most

Spoiler: Warning: Language

 

[Tired Tyres]

I just find it hard to believe that retail have all this information nearly a year before launch?

Yes that is very strange. Anyway I've taken delivery of a Panasonic TX-40C300 TV today. I plugged my PS4 into it via HDMI and the TV identifies it as a PS4 and the remote control operates the PS4!

This means I can't access the menu button to fine tune the picture.

Still as long as this PS4K or whatever it's going to be called works in 1080P I'll be okay. It cost a gargantuan £250 by the way.

 

[Caz]

Can you access the menu via buttons on the tv?

 

[andyparks]

Sony wouldn't let any one leak a new system if there is one because it would affect the sales of the vr and the ps4

 

[Lion-Face]

Yes that is very strange. Anyway I've taken delivery of a Panasonic TX-40C300 TV today. I plugged my PS4 into it via HDMI and the TV identifies it as a PS4 and the remote control operates the PS4!

This means I can't access the menu button to fine tune the picture.

Still as long as this PS4K or whatever it's going to be called works in 1080P I'll be okay. It cost a gargantuan £250 by the way.

You have to turn off HDMI-CEC, in Panasonic TV's it's known as Viera Link. With my Sony TV I have to press the Sync button on the remote to access a menu to then select what device I want to control with the remote, I imagine there will be something similar in the Pana tv.

As for PS4K, I would imagine, if it's true, that it will do the exact same thing as the PS4, but have extra power to output 4k. So the games will be made and run on the current PS4, but if you have a PS4k, then those same games could be run at 4k resolution. I would also guess by default if the PS4k was run at 1080p or less, then those same games would run with a better or more consistent frame rate, but I would seriously doubt there would be anything beyond that. If it's any more than that, then Sony would be shooting themselves in the foot

 

[andyparks]

I think the new ps4 is a ps4 vr with the breakout box built in and that's where there getting there higher resolution from..

 

[Eks]

If this is where consoles are going then, quite frankly, I don't need one anymore because I have a PC for that.

Same here. I wonder if this solidifies the beginning of mid-generation console upgrades? If so, then the PS4 I currently own will be my last.

If I'm going to throw $400 at something every 3-4 years, it's going to be PC upgrades.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Phil Spencer has recently come out and said not to expect a slightly upgraded XB1 any time soon, which makes what Sony is planning all the more stupid.

 

[JKgo]

...If you're a gamer, then whether you feel shafted or not, you'll have little choice but to splurge - those darned exclusive titles!!

I don't agree with console upgrade mindset, but since it's been hinted at for a while ( lots of foreshadowing by the so-called analysts and industry leaders ) it was bound to happen sooner or later.

We all should've boycotted Nintendo when they started this whole thing with DSi...

 

[Eh Team]

I think a console upgrade could work as long as it was a proper upgrade and not just a whole new console. Maybe build in a series of ports along the bottom and then have an extra trapezoid shaped thing like the system so it doesn't look out of place. They could fit in a bunch of upgrades and not need to charge tons of money because they aren't actually developing a whole new console. Unfortunately that makes too much sense so that'll never happen.

 

[Mr Latte]

Phil Spencer has recently come out and said not to expect a slightly upgraded XB1 any time soon, which makes what Sony is planning all the more stupid.

What are Sony planning, point being its hard to criticise it for being something when we are not yet sure of the facts.

To be fair, Microsoft don't make films, they don't produce 4KBlu Ray Movies. They don't manufacture 4K Televisions or Projectors or offer a 4K Streaming Service. Yet Sony do all these...

It may not even offer 4K Blu Ray as this will be expensive judging what the 1st standalone players will cost.

Yet if Sony sell several million within 6 months of release will it still be stupid?

 

[bluemoon_19]

No one has said anything about AMD yet. The PS4 APU was made using 28nm technology and AMD has confirmed that they are going to start to make 14nm CPUs and GPUs this year. If the PS4K does exist using a 14nm APU it would be able to fit a lot more transistors in giving a significant boost over the PS4.

 

[Nexus]

I thought that Zen CPU's would be released this year while the APU's would be released next year.

 

[bluemoon_19]

I'm not sure on when things are being released but it is possible Sony might get them earlier since they are a very big customer of AMD chips. But its just speculation we don't even know if it will be an APU or separate chips or if the thing even exists.

 

[Tornado]

Many consoles have been designed with mid life updates in mind. It's nothing new,

Then name one. The only examples of a console clearly being designed from the start to be significantly upgraded mid-life like Simon was arguing I can think of are the N64 and Famicom, and Nintendo's attempt to sell its mid-cycle update of the former to even the Japanese gaming market was such a miserable failure that they basically had to eat the cost on including the RAM pack with games that needed it instead of selling it as part of the upgrade. The Famicom probably would have worked and the NES was designed with the same plug, but its telling that Nintendo of America never bothered doing anything to bring it to market after it was initially announced. That's two in forty years, and both of those were addons instead of replacements (albeit with Nintendo obviously intending to make a version that replaced the original Famicom eventually).


Maybe the Intellivision, but Mattel never actually put its "update" into production; and that's still nothing like what's happening here because Mattel announced its update on day one (and in fact got in legal trouble with the FCC because they failed to deliver).

 

[Mr Latte]

I think Mike was referring to "updates" not technical capability "upgrades".

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Updates like PS3 FAT - - Slim -- Super Slim ?

 

[Tornado]

I think Mike was referring to "updates" not technical capability "upgrades".

That's what Simon was referring to:

Nobody is going to get too bothered if a console does this mid gen, and in fact that has happened since PS1. They come out with a better model that is more energy efficient, fixed bugs, etc but importantly the core function, gaming, remained the same. That is what people expect of a console generation.

He's a bit off on his timeframe, because all the way back to the Atari days companies released more efficient/significantly redesigned/etc. hardware revisions (usually for less cost, as well) to shore up flagging sales or cut production costs, but doing that is in line with what consoles have always done.


That's not what the PS4K is, though, even in this extremely early rumored stage; so it's hard to believe that it was what Mike_grpA was talking about (especially when he talks about a fixed specification in consoles being a recent thing, when fixed specifications in game consoles predates the IBM PC). Certainly possible that this is a misunderstanding, but at the moment I don't see how until he clarifies.

 

[Jawehawk]

Hopefully, it'll turn out to simply be a PS4 that is capable of running the new 4K Blu-Rays.

Not only would an upgraded PS4 be pointless, the notion that you could make a reasonably priced console that is capable of running games at 4K while maintaining consistant FPS is hopelessly naive. Even a Titan X GPU has trouble running 2-3 year old games at 4K. And that thing is two and a half times more expensive than the PS4 was at launch. Further solidifying how utterly pointless 4K gaming is at this stage...

Resolution is not what is holding graphics back, and while I've yet to see any HD TV's with HDR features, as far as I'm aware, it's not a feature exclusive to 4K resolution for technical reasons, but rather because 4K TV's have pretty much replaced HD TV production at this point. But oh well. 4K sounds so impressive, and people who don't know any better will instantly gravitate towards higher numbers, regardless of whether they can actually see the difference.

I might be wrong on this, but I wouldn't think that taking advantage of HDR features in new TV's would require much more power than what a normal 1080P game of today requires. And if done right, it offers a much more convincing graphical upgrade than simply upgrading the resolution to 4K. But again, High Dynamic Range doesn't sound as impressive as 4 times higher resolution, so good luck getting the average Joe to understand this.

 

[AudiMan2011]

Jim Sterling.

Spoiler: Language Warning

 

[Mike_grpA]

Then name one. The only examples of a console clearly being designed from the start to be significantly upgraded mid-life like Simon was arguing I can think of are the N64 and Famicom, and Nintendo's attempt to sell its mid-cycle update of the former to even the Japanese gaming market was such a miserable failure that they basically had to eat the cost on including the RAM pack with games that needed it instead of selling it as part of the upgrade. The Famicom probably would have worked and the NES was designed with the same plug, but its telling that Nintendo of America never bothered doing anything to bring it to market after it was initially announced. That's two in forty years, and both of those were addons instead of replacements (albeit with Nintendo obviously intending to make a version that replaced the original Famicom eventually).


Maybe the Intellivision, but Mattel never actually put its "update" into production; and that's still nothing like what's happening here because Mattel announced its update on day one (and in fact got in legal trouble with the FCC because they failed to deliver).

There was, as you point out, the Famicom, which was designed to take upgrades, and a couple of upgrades were released in Japan for it. However, as you rightly point out, the NES version had an expansion port that was never used. The existence of that expansion port still means the console was originally designed with mid cycle upgrades in mind, like the disk drive the Famicom eventually got. There was also a Sharp version built in Japan called the Twin Famicom, which combined both the Famicom and Disk system in one, and this was designed with three expansion ports that never ended up being used AFAIK. Again, designed with updates in mind.

On to Sega, first with the Sega SG-1000, which after just one year was dropped and the redesigned SG-1000II replaced it. Although there's only tiny differences between these two, Sega also released the SC-3000, which was based on the 1000, but had a whopping 0.5Mhz stronger CPU (the 1000 had a 3.5Mhz CPU, so half a Mhz was actually quite the upgrade). These were failures compared to the Famicom, which is why Sega kept re-designing and updating them (eventually leading to the Master System). This leads us to the Asia-only Sega Mark III, which was, again based on the 1000 series. This had 3 add-ons designed for it, and was redesigned as the Sega Master System, and sold world-wide. The Master System was relatively successful, despite being the fifth update of the Sega systems it was based on. To put this into perspective, the first SG-1000 was released in 1983, and the Master System was released in 1986. That's five systems in three years!

Then Sega brought out the Genesis, or Mega Drive, which was designed with a number of updates in mind, . These included the Mega CD, of which there were a couple of versions, the 32X which expanded the Mega Drive to full 3d 32bit capability with two 32bit processors and a 3d capable GPU. The 32X was an enormous failure thanks to Sega releasing an independent 32bit console (Saturn) at the same time. There was also a Karaoke thing and even a wireless controller released for the Genesis/Mega Drive, but with all of these plugged into the system, it looks like an absolute mess (I have a friend with all of these things, the system is massive with all of them plugged in).

Then we have the Super Famicom and SNES. These were designed with an expansion port too, which as we know was for the fabled SNES CD that Sony was working on for Nintendo, that thanks to their falling out, never came to be, and actually led to the first Playstation. That's another system designed for mid cycle updates.

Next is N64, which had two expansion slots, one for the Expansion Pak, which doubled the system RAM, and another for the 64DD, which never made it outside of Japan. Nintendo sure loved selling us systems that were designed with mid cycle updates in mind didn't they?

Next, and this is a unique one, was the fat PS2. It had an "expansion bay" which was for upgrading the system to allow for a 40gb hdd for game installs and an network adaptor for online gaming. Both of these upgrades were released, but you had to buy the hdd pre formatted off Sony, as it needed their software to work properly. The hdd also didn't work without the network adaptor, so you needed both. Sony also brought out the Linux kit for the PS2, which used an ethernet only network adaptor (there was an earlier network adaptor sold in the USA with a dial-up modem and ethernet jack), plus the hdd, and also came with a VGA adaptor, and keyboard and mouse, so the PS2 could be used as a Linux PC (must have been the worst PC ever ). The later slim PS2 models got rid of this upgrade capability. This was, AFAIK, the only Sony console released with upgrades in mind to date.

Lastly, and I've no doubt missed some along the way, but Nintendo also released the Gamecube with expansion ports. One was never used in the end, another I think was for playing gameboy games, and the last was for upgrading to a LAN adaptor or modem.

I know you said "name one", but considering you then went on to name two yourself, I felt the need to name the ones I know of, which, as I said in my original post, is "many". Mostly these are earlier consoles, and I don't think any Gen 7 or 8 consoles were made to be updated, however, it seems Sony is now changing that with the PS4. I still don't think this is going to affect current PS4 owners, beyond any butthurt some may feel about not having the best console anymore, but considering current consoles are so weak compared to PCs anyway, I don't know why anyone would really care. Games aren't going to suddenly run like **** on PS4, nor will they stop being made, because Sony would know either of those scenarios would severely damage them this gen, whilst they are dominating in sales. It's also not just Sony doing this. Microsoft first indicated they too were doing a kind of mid cycle update, but now are backpeddling (as they have with just about everything to do with XB1 ) and saying vague things about not wanting bolt-on upgrades, or an "Xbox one and a half", but suggesting they will probably release their next console much earlier than usual.

Sorry about the massive post lol. I'll end with this: I understand that it bothers some people, but it doesn't bother me, for reasons I've gone into detail on, and the crying about it is already getting old, so I don't think I've got anything else to add to the thread.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

There was, as you point out, the Famicom, which was designed to take upgrades, and a couple of upgrades were released in Japan for it. However, as you rightly point out, the NES version had an expansion port that was never used. The existence of that expansion port still means the console was originally designed with mid cycle upgrades in mind, like the disk drive the Famicom eventually got. There was also a Sharp version built in Japan called the Twin Famicom, which combined both the Famicom and Disk system in one, and this was designed with three expansion ports that never ended up being used AFAIK. Again, designed with updates in mind.

On to Sega, first with the Sega SG-1000, which after just one year was dropped and the redesigned SG-1000II replaced it. Although there's only tiny differences between these two, Sega also released the SC-3000, which was based on the 1000, but had a whopping 0.5Mhz stronger CPU (the 1000 had a 3.5Mhz CPU, so half a Mhz was actually quite the upgrade). These were failures compared to the Famicom, which is why Sega kept re-designing and updating them (eventually leading to the Master System). This leads us to the Asia-only Sega Mark III, which was, again based on the 1000 series. This had 3 add-ons designed for it, and was redesigned as the Sega Master System, and sold world-wide. The Master System was relatively successful, despite being the fifth update of the Sega systems it was based on. To put this into perspective, the first SG-1000 was released in 1983, and the Master System was released in 1986. That's five systems in three years!

Then Sega brought out the Genesis, or Mega Drive, which was designed with a number of updates in mind, . These included the Mega CD, of which there were a couple of versions, the 32X which expanded the Mega Drive to full 3d 32bit capability with two 32bit processors and a 3d capable GPU. The 32X was an enormous failure thanks to Sega releasing an independent 32bit console (Saturn) at the same time. There was also a Karaoke thing and even a wireless controller released for the Genesis/Mega Drive, but with all of these plugged into the system, it looks like an absolute mess (I have a friend with all of these things, the system is massive with all of them plugged in).

Then we have the Super Famicom and SNES. These were designed with an expansion port too, which as we know was for the fabled SNES CD that Sony was working on for Nintendo, that thanks to their falling out, never came to be, and actually led to the first Playstation. That's another system designed for mid cycle updates.

Next is N64, which had two expansion slots, one for the Expansion Pak, which doubled the system RAM, and another for the 64DD, which never made it outside of Japan. Nintendo sure loved selling us systems that were designed with mid cycle updates in mind didn't they?

Next, and this is a unique one, was the fat PS2. It had an "expansion bay" which was for upgrading the system to allow for a 40gb hdd for game installs and an network adaptor for online gaming. Both of these upgrades were released, but you had to buy the hdd pre formatted off Sony, as it needed their software to work properly. The hdd also didn't work without the network adaptor, so you needed both. Sony also brought out the Linux kit for the PS2, which used an ethernet only network adaptor (there was an earlier network adaptor sold in the USA with a dial-up modem and ethernet jack), plus the hdd, and also came with a VGA adaptor, and keyboard and mouse, so the PS2 could be used as a Linux PC (must have been the worst PC ever ). The later slim PS2 models got rid of this upgrade capability. This was, AFAIK, the only Sony console released with upgrades in mind to date.

Lastly, and I've no doubt missed some along the way, but Nintendo also released the Gamecube with expansion ports. One was never used in the end, another I think was for playing gameboy games, and the last was for upgrading to a LAN adaptor or modem.

I know you said "name one", but considering you then went on to name two yourself, I felt the need to name the ones I know of, which, as I said in my original post, is "many". Mostly these are earlier consoles, and I don't think any Gen 7 or 8 consoles were made to be updated, however, it seems Sony is now changing that with the PS4. I still don't think this is going to affect current PS4 owners, beyond any butthurt some may feel about not having the best console anymore, but considering current consoles are so weak compared to PCs anyway, I don't know why anyone would really care. Games aren't going to suddenly run like **** on PS4, nor will they stop being made, because Sony would know either of those scenarios would severely damage them this gen, whilst they are dominating in sales. It's also not just Sony doing this. Microsoft first indicated they too were doing a kind of mid cycle update, but now are backpeddling (as they have with just about everything to do with XB1 ) and saying vague things about not wanting bolt-on upgrades, or an "Xbox one and a half", but suggesting they will probably release their next console much earlier than usual.

Sorry about the massive post lol. I'll end with this: I understand that it bothers some people, but it doesn't bother me, for reasons I've gone into detail on, and the crying about it is already getting old, so I don't think I've got anything else to add to the thread.

You forgot to mention PSX, the early gen had expansion port ( Serial I think ) that allows it to play Video CD. I had one long time ago, a PSX with MPEG Decoder Module plugged in at the rear. Used it to play VCD and Karaoke Sold it to a Japanese girlfriend who loves collecting console stuff when I was back in Sydney

 

[Mike_grpA]

You forgot to mention PSX, the early gen had expansion port ( Serial I think ) that allows it to play Video CD. I had one long time ago, a PSX with MPEG Decoder Module plugged in at the rear. Used it to play VCD and Karaoke Sold it to a Japanese girlfriend who loves collecting console stuff when I was back in Sydney

Forgot about that one, but I also forgot about the mid cycle 3DS updated model, that even has exclusive games that the older 3DS can't play. If the PS4K somehow ends up being so different that it has exclusive games that PS4 can't play, I would be against it, but I wouldn't make the assumption that it'll be like that, because it'd be idiotic, and the only source of this "info" that we have to go off has already said that won't be the case.

I reckon the only difference in games will be the 4k upscaling, and maybe Sony will allow some devs to unlock the fps on the 4k version, but I doubt it, because the 4k upscaling will no doubt use up all the extra resources the PS4k has over the PS4. My bet is the games will all be the same between the two, and the only difference will be the PS4k upscales them to 4k, and has the capability to play 4k video. Sony will likely sell the normal PS4 alongside the PS4k, so people who aren't interested in the 4k functionality, or who have no intention on buying a 4k tv anytime soon, can just buy the regular PS4 and save themselves some cash.

I reckon the PS4k will be a marketing tool Sony will use to get more people to buy 4k TVs, as it'll be a more affordable 4k player that also plays great games. Sony were very successful at marketing the PS3 as a cut price blu ray player that also played games, to get people to buy HDTVs, so this strategy wouldn't surprise me at all.

It's all speculation at this point, but I think this is the most realistic scenario.

 

[Tornado]

A console having expansion ports for external peripherals, like the early PS2, early PSX, Gamecubes and Saturns did, is not the same thing as deliberately planning a mid-cycle console upgrade like the PS4k is rumored to be.




I'm also well aware of Sega's speckled history on this matter, which is why I consider this idea to be such a joke. I specifically ignored the Genesis. The difference between the Famicom/N64 and their addons and the Genesis and it's addons was that the former two were designed for the type of significant performance upgrades that the Disc System and N64DD provided (like the PS4k is rumored to have) from the start, falling in line with your point, and the latter was not. Nevermind advanced planning, the Sega CD wasn't something Sega considered until two years after the system had launched. The expansion port on the bottom of the Genesis wasn't designed for anything like the Sega CD (on original Genesis models it wasn't even capable of sending audio through the connector, which is why you needed to route a patch cable out of the front of the system like a crappy VCR), either. What they originally intended to do with that port, I'm not sure, since they originally already had an extension port on the back of the console for releasing gimmicky crap on the Japanese market; but the system as is had serious design restrictions and performance bottlenecks because that port was not designed for an addon that significantly increased the power of the system like the Sega CD did.
And one look at how the 32X plugs into the Genesis makes it obvious that no one had put any advanced thought into its design even before you look into its development (which was basically "let's throw some leftover Saturn parts into a box in five months"). It doesn't even properly fit on the Sega Genesis that Sega had on the market at the time.

You're also a bit off base for what the SG-1000's design revisions actually were. The SG-1000 was a game console. The Mark II was a minor revision of the game console to try and shore up sales after Nintendo kicked the 🤬 out of them, and was basically the same thing as the PSOne in relation to the PSX. They obviously didn't design the SG-1000 with the intent of updating it a year later or they would have released the Mark I in the first place.
The SC-3000 wasn't even a game console, and it certainly wasn't an update to the SG-1000 (or a Famicom competitor) when it was released at the same time as the SG-1000. It was a home computer based on more powerful versions of the same hardware, and Sega gave up on it when it immediately got its teeth kicked in in Japan by the MSX standard that it wasn't compatible with and the more powerful 8-Bit computers already on the market everywhere else. The only revision similar to what the PS4K is rumored to be was the Mark III (the Master System was just the Mark III with more design efficiency, again like the PSOne), which was Sega throwing most of the SC-3000's more powerful hardware into a box with most of the computer stuff removed; but again, I have to question the assertion that Sega intended all along to release a console that immediately was dead on the water just so they could scramble to replace it three years later with an upgraded version that had decent success that they also had the ability to release in the first place. And, stepping away from existence of intent to upgrade consoles mid-cycle, Sony in 2016 also isn't Sega in 1986.

 

[Mike_grpA]

Everything you're saying is based off the assumption that Sony developed the PS4, knowing it would be releasing an upgraded version a few years after it released the PS4. What's more likely, is that the PS4k was never a part of the original plan, but either late in development, or shortly after release of the PS4, those plans changed, and they started working on this version. You may liken that to the 32X, where Sega brought it out as a halfway house to the full fat 32 bit systems. The 32x failed spectacularly, but primarily because the games for it couldn't be played on the normal Mega Drive/Genesis, and they released the Saturn alongside it, so it made no sense for devs to make games for the 32X. It's a bit of a stretch to think Sony is going to allow special PS4k only games that the PS4 can't play, since they, along with the rest of the known world, would know it would split their user base and alienate the current owners of PS4s. Not to mention, it isn't in the best interest of devs to make such exclusive games, as they would be narrowing their potential audience. I know Nintendo has done just that with the new 3DS, but let's face it, the 3DS will do spectacularly no matter what they do to it, and nobody really understands Nintendo at the best of times anyway lol.