Punished for being rear-ended???

[NJ72]

See, the really interesting thing in the video above is this:

1- You hit the porsche, that's what the penalty was for - whether it was avoidable or not, that's how the game interpreted it and thus the penalty was given.
2- If this had been real life, your race would have been over in that crash. The front of your car would have been written off and game over - so the fact you managed to finish in 9th is actually not all that bad.
3- It was an unavoidable incident, plain and simple, but I do agree that you *shouldn't* have gotten a penalty for that contact - how can the system recognise that? Answer: It probably cant'...

I think one way of avoiding the 'someone rear ended me' things is to implement a ghosting feature that ghosts drivers if the speed differential is above a certain threshold. Much like happened to that Porsche in the video above, just a little bit too late for it to save anyone

It's a flawed system, yes, but I think it does OK given the number of people using it and how 'intelligent' it can be. I think it will improve over time.

 

[Sean Renon]

Fast qualy times don't mean a fast, or good racer. Those times could've been set in 1 of 20 awful laps. Race pace/lapping pace consistancy is what gets you podiums.

If your trying to set qualy time every lap in a race..... Then that's half your problem right there. Drive to what is happening around you.

I wasn't trying to set a qual lap time, my qual time was 40.5 yesterday, I know exactly what it takes to run a 40.5, it means a top notch exit from the last wiggle of the previous lap, a nice tight turn 1, and then going through the left/right of turn 2/3 without lifting. I know what my line is, and if I'm off on turn 3 I will gladly lift and lose a .3 seconds to keep track.

This video isn't an example of me trying to do a hotlap and thus getting into an accident. And you'll see I brake with plenty of time, in the moment when I saw the porsche get hit I assumed (incorrectly, due to lack of driving experience) that he wouldn't snap back to the left as you can see I try and go between them. A better and more experienced version of me would've held the brakes and held the inside line, but it wouldn't have prevented the lambo from flying into me.

I didn't post a video to be critiqued that my driving is to blame for two people playing bumper cars in front of me, I know what I could've done better, but to suggest I was driving all out with no regard for the accident in front of me is wrong.

 

[Raific]

I think much of the problem is that people are not familiar with the tracks right now and it is affected us all. I get frustrated with the SR system at times too and certain have had my share of unfair penalties but have confidence that they will refine it.

The game is still very new so give your feedback in a positive and less angry way and they will hear. As someone mentioned, no plan will be perfect but as they flesh it out, less and less people will fall victim to it. You will always have the trolls and asshats. This is the internet. Just understand you will have unfair moments and move on to the next race. If you are decent, you will rise.

*This post was not direct at you Sean. Just happen to follow yours.

 

[Johnnypenso]

This would create other problems already pointed by others.
Breaking zones are not the same for every one.Different people -skill or style or pace-,with different cars and different set ups are most of the times have different breaking points and propably different lines in some parts of the track.
Also many many time people would break-check the guy behind them in racing titles or even in RL.
I posted several times in these forums that imo the SR is not working as good as it should.
The main problem is that in some cases it gives a penalty to clean people being "clean" and rewards "dirty" driving.But going from one side to the extreme opposite will not solve problems,would only create other kind of problems.
I had a race 2 days ago where the guy in front was clearly slower than me and the guy behind me.He was too slow going into corners that his breaking zone was really early.I had to break early myself and really hard to avoid hitting him.The moment I would do that,the guy behind me would hit me and we both would get a negative SR.I did try to negotiate as good as I could the situation but it was really difficult.Pretty much the guy in front was blocking/break-checking the entire race and the guy behind was pushing/hitting me from behind.None of us lost or gained positions in the end,but I was the only one to get a negative SR for trying to be fair to both of them.....

I think it's workable. Braking points are different but not that different that you can't come up with some point on the track where you know that the vast, vast majority of drivers will have to be braking. You could have three zones. The hard braking zone where contact is the responsibility of the following driver and where 99% of drivers will definitely be braking. A shorter neutral zone preceeding that where contact is penalized the way it is now, no fault. And the rest of the straight preceeding the corner where contact front to back is the responsibility of one or the other driver, depending on their pace and braking status. Aka, if you are hard braking on a straight for no reason, you are brake checking and at fault.

A perfect example is the example you provided. You are trying to avoid contact. The guy behind you holds the most responsibility because he is behind both of you and can see better than anyone what is happening. If he is contacting you in the neutral zone I described above, he'll also be penalized, along with you, instead of the way it is now, with just you being penalized.

It doesn't need to be perfect, just better. I think people look at possible solutions, pull out a single anecdotal situation that won't work and then dismiss the possibilities. What they don't look at is the other 99% of times it'll work as intended because the vast majority of racing takes place in fairly predictable patterns. Yeah you might end up in a race getting a penalty on a straight for avoiding an accident and swerving and hitting someone once every ten races but you're already getting a penalty for that so it won't be any different.

 

[Raific]

I wonder if a memory system would help. If you bump into people often you accrue penalties easier or at least each SR hit is more or less depending on your past 7-10 races. If you are a bad driver, or just lag, it should start to black mark you in a way. Just a thought.

 

[JulesDennis]

I wonder if a memory system would help. If you bump into people often you accrue penalties easier or at least each SR hit is more or less depending on your past 7-10 races. If you are a bad driver, or just lag, it should start to black mark you in a way. Just a thought.

SR is supposed to do that.
Ranking people as "bad"/"dirty" drivers or "clean"/"super clean" drivers.

 

[NJ72]

I wonder if a memory system would help. If you bump into people often you accrue penalties easier or at least each SR hit is more or less depending on your past 7-10 races. If you are a bad driver, or just lag, it should start to black mark you in a way. Just a thought.

That is the SR system... lol

 

[Johnnypenso]

A more robust algorithm might have recognized that the cars in front have made contact and lost control and perhaps avoided giving you a penalty for contact. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

 

[Sean Renon]

A more robust algorithm might have recognized that the cars in front have made contact and lost control and perhaps avoided giving you a penalty for contact. Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

I totally agree, and if they're marketing this game as an e-sport I think more time should be put into this algorithm. It really shouldn't be hard to discern that contact that I didn't initiate is what caused my slowdown and therefor hit in the back.

This all changes when you have stewards involved, as they'd likely give me no penalty, *might* give the lambo a penalty if they see he/she made no attempt to slow down etc etc, but shouldn't the goal of any algorithm be to replicate a stewards decision as accurately as possible, I think we're still a ways away from that.

 

[Raific]

I get that SR does that by ranking.. I mean if you are bouncing off people left and right you would get a -25 SR (made up number) where someone in the same rank as you, if they hit someone once in a race, get only -5 SR for that hit. If that does that now, cool. I am still new to GT so not sure exactly how it works.

 

[GTPoet]

I to am frustrated at times by this system. Ive gotten 10 sec penalties for the bad driving of others. And I've caused collisions where I wasn't penalized nearly as hard as I should've been.

I think it will be improved. The game is still in it's infancy.

I also think something needs to be done about laggers. Yesterday a guy was literally teleporting from one lane to the next. I finally tried to pass and he teleported into my car. Once the smoke cleared I had 19 secs of penalty. That was truly ridiculous.

 

[NJ72]

I wonder if the finals of the FIA races will actually have stewards...?

 

[Sean Renon]

I wonder if the finals of the FIA races will actually have stewards...?

I mean they had stewards for the online beta finals whatever that was.
I would assume they turn off penalties, and have stewards.

 

[NJ72]

online beta finals

??? The online beta didn't have a championship in it as far as I know?

 

[FUNanywhere]

Here is a good example of the games broken SR system.

The coding views me as going slower than required, or not taking the right line, or blocking the guy in 4th or maybe even it thinks I purposely brake checked him.

However, the code has no way of recognizing that I was hit attempting to slow down and avoid an accident I wasn't a part of, and that the lambo driver in front of me should've been on the brakes as well, not trying to fly through a clear accident at full throttle.

I end up being given a 10 sec penalty, and finishing in 9th after starting in third.

The most annoying thing is us in the top 3 all qualified with similar times, and 4th had already fallen back about a full second, so if I get through clean without being rammed I likely have the pace to hold first.

Racing incident i say. There is no way you can determine whos fault it is. Even FIA would need multiple views to decide so expecting a game to determine at run time is too much i think.

Also, you could have slowed down a bit and took more inside line as 2 cars were there in front taking the expected lines.

You bumped the car ahead and rightly was penalised according to game mechanics.

Move ahead i say. PD are changing things as they see. Happy Racing.

 

[Sean Renon]

??? The online beta didn't have a championship in it as far as I know?

Sorry, it was the FIA nations pre-season test cup. They had stewards.

 

[NJ72]

I stand corrected Sean

EDIT: The above video raises one VERY important question - where is the racing MX5 now?