Punters - Hit 'Em Back, or Not?

[Greycap]

My approach to being punted is usually to take the place back "semi-cleanly" - if there's an open spot, even a bit of an optimistic one - I'll use it. If the former punter then turns into me and gets bounced off my car into the sandtrap, bad for them. Shouldn't have left that door open in the first place.

 

[Kryz11]

Whats the point in hitting them back? Won't do anything, and they will get the message its ok to hit because everyone does it.

 

[Famine]

I'm not so sure. Look at what happened when Sphinx posted what I have to admit was a very damning video of myself performing that move at the end of suzuka. I mean, hell, if I'd seen that I'd have thought it was an obvious block. Okay I had already apologised and explained it but, even that aside, a number of people immediately jumped to my defense.

Missed that one, sorry. But you sort of cover my response next:

The only opinions I care about are the people I race alongside and most of them know how I behave on track. If some punter managed to chop together 10 mins of footage of me skelping him out the way, repeatedly, I'm sure most of my friends on here would immediately realise this was out of character

Once, as in the Sphinx video to which you refer (and I haven't seen it so won't comment) is a racing incident/mistake/brainfart. Someone comes up with footage of you doing it repeatedly and it becomes your character.

and, even if they didn't it wouldn't change the way I race - so, other than some imaginary credits, what do I lose?

Self-respect. Well, I would anyway.


You'd smack someone who smacks you. I wouldn't. I think that pretty much covers it

 

[Stotty]

Most of the time I'll let it go... afterall, it's racing and there's always going to be some contact.

But there are a couple of things that wind me up - 1) people sideswiping on straights and 2) trying stupid outbraking moves from miles back. If I know for sure who's responsible, and I don't have to significantly compromise my lap time, I'll take pleasure in assisting their progress in to the gravel.

Occassionaly, someone will really p**s me off and I might spend the rest of the race making their life a misery.

It's a bit like having kids... if you don't tell them off for doing bad things their behavior won't change.

 

[homeforsummer]

There have only been a couple of occasions where I've been annoyed enough by someone to retaliate, though I never just ram into someone, my retaliation is more by leaning on them in corners or using them to help me stop into a chicane. Like I said though, only done this a few times.

What I normally do is message the offending twerp asking them to explain why they were driving like an idiot, and it's surprising the number of people who apologise.

 

[AMG.]

It's a bit like having kids... if you don't tell them off for doing bad things their behavior won't change.

And therein lies the problem. "Telling" them by punting is not telling them, in most cases it only reinforces that this behaviour is acceptable.

The only way to resolve this is to actually talk to them, and since there is no universal chat that isnt possible at this point in time.
Punting is lowering yourself to their level.

Suffice to say I voted for never.

AMG.

 

[AERO_HDT]

Can't actually believe that there's a thread contemplating this.

To be serious, you can't resolve anything with ramming people back. It's childish, waaaay below standard and it really irks me that there are people on this board who think it's okay to resort to this sort of thing.

Ramming, punting, pushing, shoving, contact passing, leaning, whatever you want to call it, must end. Sure it is unavoidable sometimes, but how the hell do some of you distinguish taking back a position 'semi-cleanly'? It's either clean or it isn't and if you're taking back positions in contact manner, then you're no better than a punter to begin with.

I vote for never. I'm really disappointed to see that this particular response isn't the majority here.

👎

 

[Biggles]

I would be interested to see how the voting breaks down by AGE.

Those who think they can somehow reform or (LOL) "intimidate" punters by "retaliating" are deluding themselves. It simply perpetuates the problem.

Other than the first couple of weeks (which were admittedly a bash-fest), in many hundreds of online races (mostly at Suzuka), I have only encountered 2 or 3 deliberate punters - one more last night at Fuji (MentalGuy (CA), for the record). I can't help suspecting, that if dragonistic, P3nT etc, & other "retaliatory punters" are encountering a lot more incidents, it might have something to do with their own behaviour...

 

[daan]

I have videos of 2 races where I raced against a chap whose name escapes me at the minute. In the first race, he tried to sideswipe me as I went past. He then ran into me from behind, before passing me. I just drove my usual line, and overtook him cleanly, and went on to win the race. In the 2nd race, he hit me from behind and knocked me wide. This enabled him to come past. He then slowed down to let me back through.

Would he have done that if I'd been hitting him back?

 

[OzOldTimer]

First up every one is entitled to their opinion. This was opened as debate and one I have an interest in. So here are my views.

Got to agree with AERO on this. I really try hard to not touch anyone else in a race, regardless of whether they are driving clean or not. I think it is up to us to do something about the current state of affairs. Quit whinging about the penalty systems and the lack of private rooms and start setting an example for heavens sake. Isn't that a far better advertisement for GTP than having racers with GTP tags mixing it up with the rammers?

Besides, I beat the rammers more than half of the time. If they have to ram you off the track to win that in itself says a lot about the level of their skill. Forget about retaliation and just do your best to outdrive them IMHO.

 

[Stotty]

I would be interested to see how the voting breaks down by AGE.

Those who think they can somehow reform or (LOL) "intimidate" punters by "retaliating" are deluding themselves. It simply perpetuates the problem.

Other than the first couple of weeks (which were admittedly a bash-fest), in many hundreds of online races (mostly at Suzuka), I have only encountered 2 or 3 deliberate punters - one more last night at Fuji (MentalGuy (CA), for the record). I can't help suspecting, that if dragonistic, P3nT etc, & other "retaliatory punters" are encountering a lot more incidents, it might have something to do with their own behaviour...

Not sure if you're intimating you think it's the younger element that are retaliating - if that's the case I'm not in that category at 41 y/o.

Just to be clear, incidents of obviously deliberate punting are few and far between. My experience is that the deliberate punters stay out of my way once they've had some treatment back... their behavior might not necessarilty change per se, but they at least leave me alone.

 

[integr8ed]

There's aggressive driving and just plain garbage. If I do get punted on purpose, and I have the oppurtunity to repay the favor, I will.

There are times where I've inadvertently hit someone, if they hit me back, I don't get all that upset, I expect retribution. Normally I'll let them pass and then repass them.

If I'm in the lead and running away, then I'll focus on the win and running my pace. But if it's heated and people want to bang, I'll bang right along with them.

If I'm in a race full of d-bags, I hate to say it but I find it acceptable to quit the race. I've been one on one with folks an have had really good duels, but if I'm one on one and in the last lap, I give someone enough space to pass me (didn't get a good drive ouf of the previous corner..etc) and they still punt me, I'm out of there.

I'm at the 2m limit, I'm not looking to win at all costs, I just want a fun clean race.

 

[uunottaja]

I try to ram opponents only if they have rammed me on purpose or many times on controversy situations.

 

[Gnobody]

I voted no, never.

As much as I would like to ram, punt and smash 'em up, I am always conscious that as a GTP member, I am (as we all are) an ambasador for this community and I also feel that two wrongs don't make a right.

You have to remember too that anyone racing with you may not know the history of you and a particular driver, and if they only see you ramming that driver, well, thats your and GTP's reputation lost....

Even though I don't like to retaliate, it still makes me angry and my neighbours probably wonder whats going on when I get rammed off the track and shout " you ***t" at the top of my voice at 03:00 in the morning!

 

[P3nT4gR4m]

I've decided to do a 180 on this issue. Based on the fact that many of the responses in this thread who have come down against retaliation have come across as strongly opposed to retaliation whilst the ones who do it don't really seem to care either way.

The people of this forum are the company I wish to keep and I'd hate to offend someone for beating the crap out a punter when, by the same token, I don't think I'd offend anyone by turning the other cheek.

I stand before you, from this moment on, a reformed driver - no more -gloves off- driving from me. You have my word.

 

[muffolini]

They're just obstacles between him and a gold trophy.

Or her!

I tend not to retaliate in Expert races. However, in most of the Intermediate races, you might as well be at the circus in the bumper cars, so I definitely engage in some revenge argy bargy then.

 

[AERO_HDT]

Just had a race with someone where they rammed me off the track for the lead of a race. Hmmmm, don't worry I'll catch up again.

And I did, two and a half laps later. Now only a second behind him and chasing this little blighter for the lead, I was wondering how to get past him cleanly when he makes a mistake and goes off all on his lonesome. After losing the lead to the race, he quits.

I really don't see any honour in this. Ramming the host of the race and then quitting because you lost the lead on the end of lap 3?! Little bloody cheat, I thought, happy to have all the glory, but totally unwilling to give anyone else but himself a good race. I won't name him, that's not my style, but neither would I have rammed him back.

He knows who he is. Little coward. You lost a race and I didn't even have to touch you...

 

[Monkey House]

When a guy slams you, it's so satisfying to see him spin out of control further up the track because he just can't drive. If I catch up to a guy who hit me and he doesn't go after me again, I'll leave him alone. But if he starts trying to bump me for passing him, all bets are off.

 

[Vaxen]

I very, very rarely retaliate, but have done so a couple times (out of hundreds of opportunities). Each race is a clean slate, but when facing known punters, I'll adjust my driving accordingly (mostly to avoid finding myself in prime punt target position).

The problems with retaliation (above an beyond what have been mentioned above) are that many times the instigator honestly isn't aware that they are driving dirty, and punting them won't do anything to educate them on the matter. Sometimes they really aren't punting intentionally (missing a brake zone, or getting shunted into you), and you can't judge by the fact that the didn't stop and wait that they punted you intentionally (I will wait if I missed my brake zone, but won't if I got shunted into you). Finally, if you are concentrating on punting, you aren't concentrating on racing.

I will pressure a punter if they got by me. 9/10 times this is enough.

I voted "with sufficient cause," though my philosophy is probably closer to "never."

 

[Dragonistic]

What's the difference between winning dirty and coming second clean?

I know which I'd rather do.

I'd rather deny the dirty win by resetting their own position, i dont care if i win or lose i have every car and 1.5 million in the bank. Its nothing to do with winning, it's about letting someone know how it felt for you being hit off the track. whether it be from 12 place or the lead.

I have only ever deliberately hit about 4 people in my hour upon hour of GT online time, it's not a common practice i take up, but i have limits.

I've decided to do a 180 on this issue. Based on the fact that many of the responses in this thread who have come down against retaliation have come across as strongly opposed to retaliation whilst the ones who do it don't really seem to care either way.

The people of this forum are the company I wish to keep and I'd hate to offend someone for beating the crap out a punter when, by the same token, I don't think I'd offend anyone by turning the other cheek.

I stand before you, from this moment on, a reformed driver - no more -gloves off- driving from me. You have my word.

You bear a tag, thus your driving affects others reputation, for me im a free spirit and as so i have the will to decide what i do. Even though i rarely do it, i act differently when my actions will effect others that arent myself and the punter. I never ram if there's a chance his wreck could hit someone else.

I would be interested to see how the voting breaks down by AGE.

Those who think they can somehow reform or (LOL) "intimidate" punters by "retaliating" are deluding themselves. It simply perpetuates the problem.

Other than the first couple of weeks (which were admittedly a bash-fest), in many hundreds of online races (mostly at Suzuka), I have only encountered 2 or 3 deliberate punters - one more last night at Fuji (MentalGuy (CA), for the record). I can't help suspecting, that if dragonistic, P3nT etc, & other "retaliatory punters" are encountering a lot more incidents, it might have something to do with their own behaviour...

I've had one incident in the last roughly 100 hours of solid play where i've hit back. Don't assume because i say i'd do it, i do it frequently.

Can't actually believe that there's a thread contemplating this.

To be serious, you can't resolve anything with ramming people back. It's childish, waaaay below standard and it really irks me that there are people on this board who think it's okay to resort to this sort of thing.

Ramming, punting, pushing, shoving, contact passing, leaning, whatever you want to call it, must end. Sure it is unavoidable sometimes, but how the hell do some of you distinguish taking back a position 'semi-cleanly'? It's either clean or it isn't and if you're taking back positions in contact manner, then you're no better than a punter to begin with.

I vote for never. I'm really disappointed to see that this particular response isn't the majority here.

👎

It must end, but it won't at the current state of GTs online system, just look at the Daytona Speedway and HSR time trials. Having perfectly good races ruined by dirty driving, why should an already ruined race be such a problem, most the true punters won't change from being left, or being hit back. The more a punter gets hit off, the more they'll realise how it feels to be the guy on the receiving end, even if that doesnt change their ways, it ruins their races like theyve ruined many others. Why is that so bad for someone like me, bearing no tag or relation to anyone here to the normal person. No-one here gets blamed for my actions, which is why i bear no tag. I have only my own reputation to damage, if it does, but seeing as i receive many messages and invites complimenting my manners whilst driving (even one thanking me for hitting a guy off a couple of weeks ago because the guy rammed off 4 people in a row), I am obviously saving my retaliation for the right time.

 

[BonzoHarry]

...............

 

[the Interceptor]

I'm all with that guy, voted no.

I only got carried away once and hit a guy on purpose who had shoved me off the track several times before, but I can't say I felt better afterwards.

 

[Zetec-ss]

i can only really recall once where i cheated on purpose, i hit him very lightly when he was braking for the chicane on suzuka, i only hit him enough for him to move to the left side of the road so i could get passed...he did loads of things to keep me behind him..brake test,side ramming, weaving etc

oh the shame

 

[RedSuinit]

"Don't argue with an idiot - they'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."


There's nothing more satisfying than sticking to your principles and handing a cheater's arse back to them on a silver platter.

Amen,

I try to race by this principle, but I won't lie, sometimes my anger gets the better of me, and then I don't care about position at all. My anger wants VENGEANCE! But, I do not think this is the right way to race and usually feel like a douche after it's over.

Luke

 

[Biggles]

I'll put it another way: when I race, it becomes clear very quickly who the skilled, clean drivers are (even if they they get shunted off by someone & end up trailing for a while). They are the ones who get my respect. If I see anyone bumping & punting deliberately, or recklessly, they lose my respect, regardless of if they "win" (which in any case, they very, very rarely do).

 

[750F-RM]

Depending on my mood, i might allow a punter some slack. If i'm not a happy bunny that evening
though, i'll chase them like a demented dog and pay them back

And i never feel at all bad about it. they deserve it, the lowlifes

 

[MustakeSVT]

I have found that a lot of times we get hit by someone driving a track or certain car for the first time. I give the benefit of the doubt to everyone and just drive.

A true punter can be beat easily, they always enter turns way too fast, and if you watch your mirror, you can swerve or mash the brake hard and you ghost out and they will drive into the gravel instead of you. This method works well most of the time. And there is no contact. And it makes me laugh.

If I do get mad I'll finish the race and go watch TV. I love the game but I can wait

 

[Mr P]

Well like everyone else I race with clean intentions as my main priority and have enjoyed many races against people I know from GTP and people I don't know that drive with good intentions also and those are the races I look for 👍

I am not against giving some back to a persistent rammer when they think its ok to blast me off the track when they fancy it ... I don't react when it's just one touch! but when they keep trying to knock me off and succeed many times! then the race goes out the window in my eyes and I will set about sending them into the dirt on every turn possible, I wont finish the race either and it's not about points or credits, It's just simply I wont take that kind of crap 👎

If it makes me look like a cheat then so be it .. doesn't bother me in the slightest because I have raced so many people that know I race fair until repeatedly stamped on.

I have a little story about a continuous rammer and seeing the error of his ways too A driver called Rupo8 drives a subaru, this guy always rammed me in all the races I entered with him and I reacted many times ( like I do )
... anyway I raced him a few nights ago and he rammed me plenty in the first race and i sent him off and exited, then I got in another race with him and I passed him with a tiny tickle at the last chicane! I promptly slowed down and let him pass! ... next race he was the perfect gent with me and drove well
Now don't get me wrong! Rupo has raced me many times and should know by now that I wont take his crap without thumping him back ... but he also knows I race fair when the race is being run clean! and hopefully he has learned that as long as he plays nice then so shall I

Everyone to their own way of dealing with them and we all have different temperaments, I race for fun not credits! but when the fun is gone and I'm busted up for no reason ... then it's only fair to show I can catch them and treat them like the bitch they obviously took me for

Have a field day stripping my post down and saying whats right and wrong but also keep in mind the main thing! when the competition is fair with me I am the perfect gent and will put my car to a standstill if it called for it to avoid any contacts 👍

I just don't like being a bullseye for a knobhead and never will.

 

[cudadude2]

I;m no PollyAnna, I drive fast and am not afraid of alittle contact, and i expct a little contact in any race. but if you punt me once, and i let it go and then you do it a second timr (because i will catch you after the first time, trust me) you will be driving on the sand. Its not right, but it is going to happen.

b

 

[magburner]

I'm generally pretty forgiving of knocks and bumps, but if some guy is pestering me, then he's off plain and simple. I've learned from experience, to drop back and let them take the lead. Sooner or later, he will present me with an opportunity... then WHAMMO! Sometimes though, I don't do anything at all. It can be just as effective and equally intimidating to just hang off some guys bumper. This is my preferred tactic - you get the off, but with a clear conscience!

Trust me, if the bozo wants to ruin my race (particularly on the last lap), then I'm all in!