- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
Are you racing Eddie?
PURE | GATE - Suzuka
- Thread starter Wardez
- 2,170 comments
- 81,121 views
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Never racing Monaco again.
Ever.
There's always somebody hell bent on doing the stupidest thing possible. First time doesn't work? Do it again. And again. Sooner or later something will happen, right?
A waste of a couple hours of my life, is what it is.
Ever.
There's always somebody hell bent on doing the stupidest thing possible. First time doesn't work? Do it again. And again. Sooner or later something will happen, right?
A waste of a couple hours of my life, is what it is.
- 862
- Cincinnati, Ohi
- DA6righthand
CSLACR
^part of the reason I didn't race today.
Will we be racing with weather these last 2 races? I'd like to know so I can get some wet weather laps in if needed.
- 1,121
- Barcelona
- GV27-
During laps 35 and 36, I nudged Dom's back of the car. It was obviously not on purpose, and it was during the first lap in which I caught him. I didn't expect him to be as slow as he was on a couple of occasions, and after checking the replay, I have realised (or so says my replay) that he had damage. I apologise for that, as it was not his fault, although it was always a nudge and never a strong hit.
I don't think later events should be discussed here, although I will discuss them privately. Both with Dom, if he wants to, and the organisation, once the replay is checked 👍
Congratulations, Josh. And sorry the race had to end the way it did, Dom. Speaking with my heart here.
I don't think later events should be discussed here, although I will discuss them privately. Both with Dom, if he wants to, and the organisation, once the replay is checked 👍
Congratulations, Josh. And sorry the race had to end the way it did, Dom. Speaking with my heart here.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Josh F was running awesome, I'm not sure my 1 stop was a smart move on him.
Between some damage and getting caught in old-tire traffic that really wanted to keep me behind them, we went from dramatic finish to no contest pretty quickly.
Me and Alex were racing head-to-head for 2nd, so far in front of 4th that serious damage was the only way either of us could finish worse than 3rd.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Nudges that knock you into a slide are frustrating, but they happen. 3 times a lap, or every corner you're close enough to get a tap in, even more frustrating.
I don't know when you expected me to be faster, on fresh tires when I eventually drove away once no longer getting love taps that leave Josh to drive away from both of us, or later in the race when you had better tires?
I know you didn't do anything on purpose, but aggressive driving like that into the chicane at Monaco will leave you damaged 100% of the time. I honestly thought we all knew this by now.
- 1,121
- Barcelona
- GV27-
As I mentioned, the nudging was during the first lap in which I caught you, and because I expected a higher speed at some points. In subseqüent laps it didn't happen because I already knew the speed you would have.
On fresh tyres you left me because I had damage myself, on both front tyres, by the way.
I'm talking about lap 35, where you were damaged and therefore I understand slower than you would have been without that damage. I did not know you had damage, and therefore expected you to be just a little bit faster on certain corners, while still trying to drive close to you, in order to try and overtake at some point.
And I am convinced that, while the first try at the chicane was not correct (which is the reason why I gave position back) the second was fair.
I don't think I was especially aggressive there. It's just that Monaco is tighter and gives less space for everyone.
On fresh tyres you left me because I had damage myself, on both front tyres, by the way.
I'm talking about lap 35, where you were damaged and therefore I understand slower than you would have been without that damage. I did not know you had damage, and therefore expected you to be just a little bit faster on certain corners, while still trying to drive close to you, in order to try and overtake at some point.
And I am convinced that, while the first try at the chicane was not correct (which is the reason why I gave position back) the second was fair.
I don't think I was especially aggressive there. It's just that Monaco is tighter and gives less space for everyone.
- 2,116
- nottingham
- twistedfirework
Results, timings etc.
Grayfox completed 32 laps
Csl completed 36 laps (fastest lap 1:36.026)
I would of needed another 15 seconds to complete the race.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Which you received from?
I have a feeling it's from my rear end.
To be clear, I'm not angry, just that this track is too much for most of us.
Obviously I disagree with your assessment of the vehicle braking and turn-in points that are possible, and the rules.
I do know it was impossible to get through without someone hitting something or going off track, because of the move you made. Absolutely impossible, short of myself slamming to a stop to get out of the way.
But that's the only way to really pass at Monaco, is to break the rules, unless the driver in front seriously goofs up. It was very close when I passed cicua and Paginas as well.
- 1,121
- Barcelona
- GV27-
I did not get any damage from you during the first laps. I hit the wall on my own, twice. First time was first corner of lap 4; second time was out of the Swimming Pool area on lap 8. I was right behind you with the first damage, but second damage was too much for me to keep the pace.
- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
I don't know, just that in the very few laps you were right behind me, you hit me, a lot. Damage or no damage you were making contact on enough of a regular basis I was spending as much time avoiding you as I was driving.
We lost Josh because of it, I caught back up after you dropped off.
Weirdness over the chicane caught my front end and I spun right after Josh pitted which cut the lead that I needed to keep clear of all the traffic that kept me from him later on. Very ironic race I guess.
It's ok, the Celica will return to glory at Spa.
- 1,121
- Barcelona
- GV27-
Yeah, sorry about that. I was obviously trying to overtake, and since Monaco is tight, the driver in front can't really do anything else but keeping his racing line in these situations, in which case there is contact. Believe me that, had I not crashed myself, I would have stopped trying for a while. I mean, you can't just keep trying to overtake someone for 30 laps. It was the beginning of the race, so it is only natural I'd try, and if you ask me, the contact was most likely caused by the nature of the track, because there's a lot less space than in other places.
The Chicane is indeed a strange corner, which is part of the reason why it can be a conflictive spot. What I'm going to write now is just my opinion and I don't want it to seem like I'm attacking, accusing, or justifying anything. It is merely an opinion so that my overtaking move can be, at least, understood:
When you overtake in a normal corner, once half your car is in front of the rival's, then the rival has enough space to just lose the position and keep driving right behind the guy who went past him. At this chicane, once your car is half in front of the rival, because of the nature of this track, the rival only has two options, them being reducing his speed more than he would at another track, or "cutting" the corner. It is true that, if I had been slower there, I would have been able to give more space, and there would be no need for anyone to cut the corner. However, it is my understanding (and so I had been told before, during WSGTC) that once you have half your car ahead of the rival and you carry enough speed to take the corner normally, you have the rights to said corner. At the turn-in point I was half-car ahead and carried enough speed to take the corner.
I've had issues with how people behave on close fights, and I'd never know what to do because people would be a lot more aggressive than I thought it was right (when I began racing online). As a related example, at Nürburgring, I was being hit (very very gently, that's true) by Dom's car, during the first laps (which I didn't find incorrect). When I started racing, I saw people did that a lot, and it pissed me off. Soon I understood it was just the way it worked. You drive close to someone else, there's bound to be slight contact. I learned to live with it, even if I find it breaks my focus quite a bit. But, understanding that people do it, then I don't worry about it doing myself, as long as it's not crashing into people's cars. I'm just driving very close to the rival, and it can happen, just as it has happened to me in the past. So, when someone else does it to me, I'm like "ouch, gotta go faster so that he's not so close" instead of being "I'm being hit, I'm so mad!".
What I want people to understand here is that I'm not just some mindless guy who's pushing like there was no tomorrow. I'm thinking of what I do while I'm driving, and I'm not just randomly attacking people because I have nothing else to do.
If you're not angry, then that's a big relief for me, because you're someone I respect and I appreciate a lot, and I would hate for this to cause any weirdness between us in the future. But you did seem very angry, at least before.
Looking forward to Spa, in any case 👍
The Chicane is indeed a strange corner, which is part of the reason why it can be a conflictive spot. What I'm going to write now is just my opinion and I don't want it to seem like I'm attacking, accusing, or justifying anything. It is merely an opinion so that my overtaking move can be, at least, understood:
When you overtake in a normal corner, once half your car is in front of the rival's, then the rival has enough space to just lose the position and keep driving right behind the guy who went past him. At this chicane, once your car is half in front of the rival, because of the nature of this track, the rival only has two options, them being reducing his speed more than he would at another track, or "cutting" the corner. It is true that, if I had been slower there, I would have been able to give more space, and there would be no need for anyone to cut the corner. However, it is my understanding (and so I had been told before, during WSGTC) that once you have half your car ahead of the rival and you carry enough speed to take the corner normally, you have the rights to said corner. At the turn-in point I was half-car ahead and carried enough speed to take the corner.
I've had issues with how people behave on close fights, and I'd never know what to do because people would be a lot more aggressive than I thought it was right (when I began racing online). As a related example, at Nürburgring, I was being hit (very very gently, that's true) by Dom's car, during the first laps (which I didn't find incorrect). When I started racing, I saw people did that a lot, and it pissed me off. Soon I understood it was just the way it worked. You drive close to someone else, there's bound to be slight contact. I learned to live with it, even if I find it breaks my focus quite a bit. But, understanding that people do it, then I don't worry about it doing myself, as long as it's not crashing into people's cars. I'm just driving very close to the rival, and it can happen, just as it has happened to me in the past. So, when someone else does it to me, I'm like "ouch, gotta go faster so that he's not so close" instead of being "I'm being hit, I'm so mad!".
What I want people to understand here is that I'm not just some mindless guy who's pushing like there was no tomorrow. I'm thinking of what I do while I'm driving, and I'm not just randomly attacking people because I have nothing else to do.
If you're not angry, then that's a big relief for me, because you're someone I respect and I appreciate a lot, and I would hate for this to cause any weirdness between us in the future. But you did seem very angry, at least before.
Looking forward to Spa, in any case 👍
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- 10,456
- United States
- WrecklessAbandon
Well, there's two things.
One is the difference between a tap that is just a tap, and a tap that causes a slide. That's tire damage that doesn't come back, on top of the time it costs. To add insult, many drivers then proceed to bark up the ass of the driver they caused to slide, going for an overtake off their push bump from the corner before.(iirc you didn't do that today, just saying it's common)
The other is that you're to have your car at or alongside the rival by the braking point. This doesn't mean you can brake extra late to a point where you cross the other drivers path because you can't slow down, that is what is referred to as "divebombing".
It's a big difference in interpretation, because you can divebomb someone from 2 cars back even if the driver in front brakes at the latest possible second, because you're braking too late. That is what happened here, I could see your car in my mirror when I braked, at the late marker(last tree that sticks out). As it was, I braked a couple feet too late, and was going to miss the apex on entry. This was because of previous laps, I knew you'd be braking too late.
I believe you're underestimating how much my car kept yours inline, you were just storming through there like there wasn't even a chicane you had to stay in. My car helped turn yours, and slowed you down to a speed you could take the corner. Problem with that is, it left me wide right and going slow, with nowhere to go.
And no, I am not angry. It was a very frustrating race for me overall, frustrating day for the most part. I know you're a clean driver and I'm pretty sure this is a difference in interpretation of the rules. As Eddie once said, "basically, if you have to brake late to try to make the pass, you shouldn't be trying to make the pass". (IIRC)
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- 1,121
- Barcelona
- GV27-
I know what divebombing is, and I know you can't just go "I'm not braking at all so when the corner comes I'm in front of you lol".
Of course, I'm no GT5 programmer here so I can't assure 100% physics will work as they should. But as we enter the chicane, contact comes between the front of your car and my "rear wheel area". In a normal situation, this should push the rear to the left, causing the front to the right. Therefore, making it more difficult for me to take the corner properly (I'm speaking theoretically, GT5 physics will not be that accurate). What I mean here is that I don't think your car helped mine take the proper racing line, in all honesty.
And, important point. I braked EXACTLY at the same point I always do. Which is the part where the racing groove gets a bit darker (it doesn't really GET darker, but when you're coming down the straight, the light has this effect on the groove, which looks darker as it gets flatter). Only that instead of being on the right, I was on the left. I'm not making this up, and it can be proven just by checking replay (and since you don't have it, I can post pictures if you would like 👍 ).
I'm honestly very sorry if I contributed in some way to your frustrating day (which it seems I did). I know how it feels and it's not good at all. But while I can accept being labeled as "Not very patient" (which may mean I drive perhaps too close to somebody else, especially on a track where's as hard to overtake as in Monaco), I would not like to be labeled as "Reckless". My move, the way you describe it, gives an impression of me being reckless.
In fact, I entered the tunnel closer than before, started braking at my usual point, and I had at least three wheels at all times inside the "racing tarmac+rumble strip", instead of two, which is what I would do if I was racing normally. This means I could take the corner properly.
Of course, us talking here won't solve anything, since the past is already in the past and nothing can be done to change it.
Of course, I'm no GT5 programmer here so I can't assure 100% physics will work as they should. But as we enter the chicane, contact comes between the front of your car and my "rear wheel area". In a normal situation, this should push the rear to the left, causing the front to the right. Therefore, making it more difficult for me to take the corner properly (I'm speaking theoretically, GT5 physics will not be that accurate). What I mean here is that I don't think your car helped mine take the proper racing line, in all honesty.
And, important point. I braked EXACTLY at the same point I always do. Which is the part where the racing groove gets a bit darker (it doesn't really GET darker, but when you're coming down the straight, the light has this effect on the groove, which looks darker as it gets flatter). Only that instead of being on the right, I was on the left. I'm not making this up, and it can be proven just by checking replay (and since you don't have it, I can post pictures if you would like 👍 ).
I'm honestly very sorry if I contributed in some way to your frustrating day (which it seems I did). I know how it feels and it's not good at all. But while I can accept being labeled as "Not very patient" (which may mean I drive perhaps too close to somebody else, especially on a track where's as hard to overtake as in Monaco), I would not like to be labeled as "Reckless". My move, the way you describe it, gives an impression of me being reckless.
In fact, I entered the tunnel closer than before, started braking at my usual point, and I had at least three wheels at all times inside the "racing tarmac+rumble strip", instead of two, which is what I would do if I was racing normally. This means I could take the corner properly.
Of course, us talking here won't solve anything, since the past is already in the past and nothing can be done to change it.
- 2,728
- Kent/England
- Paginas
Quick race report.
First stint I just sat back and watched from a distance the battle ahead, I didn't have anyone behind me so it was quite boring UNTILL lap 15.
I went in the pits a lap before Wii and on my first lap back round the put straight I saw him exiting the pits, I got excited and overtook along the straight before turn 2. From then on 31 laps? I had that damn BMW behind me, sometimes he would pester me for a whole lap and sometimes he tricked me thinking he was falling back and then bang he comes flying out of know where lol.
Was very tiring, I don't think I would be able to last if there was another 5 laps
Great race
First stint I just sat back and watched from a distance the battle ahead, I didn't have anyone behind me so it was quite boring UNTILL lap 15.
I went in the pits a lap before Wii and on my first lap back round the put straight I saw him exiting the pits, I got excited and overtook along the straight before turn 2. From then on 31 laps? I had that damn BMW behind me, sometimes he would pester me for a whole lap and sometimes he tricked me thinking he was falling back and then bang he comes flying out of know where lol.
Was very tiring, I don't think I would be able to last if there was another 5 laps
Great race
- 181
- Josh_F_1998
Same here Quick one.
At the start I thought I ld try and catch CSL out by going early , and it seemed to work I pulled away and by lap 10 I had I think a 6 second lead, however I started to get worried because CSL's tyres were better than mine and he started gaining on me by about half a second a lap, so by the time I pitted at the end of lap 16 he had closed it down to 2.739.
I remember it exactly because at this moment I was like hmmm if he's on a one stop I'm gonna most likely have to overtake him in the closing stages, so I pitted and waited and waited ..... And then I finally got released by the slow pit crew, and I had a big task to do as I was 25 seconds behind and I was getting about 2 seconds per lap and on lap 19 I was 18 seconds behind and going into the last sector I ended up 8 seconds behind, and I knew that he had made a mistake somewhere so I started to really go for it and by the end of lap21 I was right behind him , I knew by now that his tyres had 'fell off the cliff' so I just waited and did the slowest overtake I have ever done as I didnt want to touch his car, and I was just hoping he would come out behind the battling cars which he did so I went for it to make sure I was ahead of him coming out the 2nd stop which I was , so I knew then that it was my race
, as button said when he won Monaco in '09
MONACO BABY!
At the start I thought I ld try and catch CSL out by going early , and it seemed to work I pulled away and by lap 10 I had I think a 6 second lead, however I started to get worried because CSL's tyres were better than mine and he started gaining on me by about half a second a lap, so by the time I pitted at the end of lap 16 he had closed it down to 2.739.
I remember it exactly because at this moment I was like hmmm if he's on a one stop I'm gonna most likely have to overtake him in the closing stages, so I pitted and waited and waited ..... And then I finally got released by the slow pit crew, and I had a big task to do as I was 25 seconds behind and I was getting about 2 seconds per lap and on lap 19 I was 18 seconds behind and going into the last sector I ended up 8 seconds behind, and I knew that he had made a mistake somewhere so I started to really go for it and by the end of lap21 I was right behind him , I knew by now that his tyres had 'fell off the cliff' so I just waited and did the slowest overtake I have ever done as I didnt want to touch his car, and I was just hoping he would come out behind the battling cars which he did so I went for it to make sure I was ahead of him coming out the 2nd stop which I was , so I knew then that it was my race
, as button said when he won Monaco in '09 MONACO BABY!
- 1,036
- Vegas
- Trajikone
I see where you both are coming from. What I don't get unless my replay is bad. I show the celica with engine damage. How the heck did it keep pace. Damage must be wrong on my replay. But Monaco or not, lines and passing should be respected. Lex was wrong lap 35 and gave back. And admits it. But this goes to respecting the other. It's not the first time this race or even with others. This happened to me r1 of finals at the seat race if you recall. Same guy same type of line. Regardless if your fast or not find a clean way around.
Lap 37. Falls under or ignoring the others around you. No matter how you put it. Lex was on the overtake and under control. Sorry for being so honest. You guys should now relax and enjoy the Sunday cause here it all is. You both are GREAT drivers
Lap 35
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af173/trajikdesigns/d3beaf0b.mp4
Lap 37
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af173/trajikdesigns/1596bce1.mp4
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af173/trajikdesigns/af1f7bf5.mp4
Lap 37. Falls under or ignoring the others around you. No matter how you put it. Lex was on the overtake and under control. Sorry for being so honest. You guys should now relax and enjoy the Sunday cause here it all is. You both are GREAT drivers
Lap 35
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af173/trajikdesigns/d3beaf0b.mp4
Lap 37
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af173/trajikdesigns/1596bce1.mp4
http://i1005.photobucket.com/albums/af173/trajikdesigns/af1f7bf5.mp4
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- 7,284
- Inverness, Scotland
- GTP_PaulMac/paulmac2k9
I like how I kept chipping away moved up from 12th to 7th . At a track I really hate...
. At a track I really hate...
- 7,284
- Inverness, Scotland
- GTP_PaulMac/paulmac2k9
You wanna see what CSLs talking about look at race 2 Snet Plato vs Neal... 
(tap/bump into slide which guy uses to pass, Plato was unimpressed and responded..) Probaly more extreame there though.
(tap/bump into slide which guy uses to pass, Plato was unimpressed and responded..) Probaly more extreame there though.
- 7,711
- Indiana-USA
- OwensRacing
All the race tracks this season and I had miss one of my favorite tracks. Uggggh
See you guys next week.
See you guys next week.
- 1,036
- Vegas
- Trajikone
Yes at full speed, your right. Was no need for that though.
I think an arrow is going a bit to far. I understand the frustration.
He shouldn't have even touch him on 35 or before. On 37 the celica could have held the brakes and not turn in as the lex was there. Sure he would have lost time but not wrecked. Ill get that view as well. I think your missing the point of let up when be overtaken. He was there and the celica couldnt maintain his line because of that. If he were there he would have hit you in the rear or side. Instead you hit him.
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- 7,711
- Indiana-USA
- OwensRacing
will-i-am
Both those attempted passes ate dirty. Can't see the names.
Both laps there was not sufficient overlap by braking point which at this turn is also a split second from turn for a proper line.
Try reading the OLR again. Lead car has corner rights. Corner rights here begin at braking point in my eyes. As well the move is forcing the lead car off his line. That is dirty. Period.
If be livid if you took my entry away like that. Also of the lex has the power to step out and around in that short distance from that far back. We may need to reexamine the specs. That Lex is honestly too fast. IMHO
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