PURE | GATE - Suzuka

  • Thread starter Wardez
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I've brought up clarification on this rule several times, and between a few of us the current reading is what we've gotten. If anyone knows of a way to re-structure the wording for corner entry, I'm sure running it by Eddie, etc couldn't hurt.
It's always a debated topic, and usually both sides point to the rules, which makes me think the wording of the rules could be improved. I'm not good at that stuff though usually.

Just to get my opinion out there. Cause this is something that need to be discussed.

No names or specific incidents mentioned.

We've debated how to put this corner rights/braking point/overlap rule right for 2 years.

Thing is, and this is important, that racing is'nt always black or white. So no matter how we put the words it will lead to discussion from time to time.

Either state it in "black or white" as we have now (a rule need to be easy to understand for it to have an impact), or state it in a wall of text with hundreds of "if's"..
That will also open up for discussion since the rule will be stated in a little bit of white, a huge chunk of grey in the middle, aaand a little bit of black.

In racing, 1million different situations can arise.
Some situations can be figured out well in advance, and some can not.
In a situation, it's hundreds of inputs, decitions, reactions that leads to an outcome.

Things to concider before trying to outbrake someone (in order):
1. Is this corner a good spot for overtaking? Yes (go to point 2) or No (aboard)
2. Does my opponent leave his inside open? Yes (go to point 3) or No (aboard)
3. Do I have enough speed to be well up my opponents side once we reach the brakingspoint (the brakingspoint is a spot from were I can keep my car under control, and also be able to hold the inside line if we enter the corner side by side. Not the spot from where I start braking.)? Yes (go to point 4) or No (aboard)
4. In what state are my tyres? Fresh or Worn? Fresh (go to point 5) or Worn (aboard)
5. In what state are my opponents tyres? Fresh or Worn? Fresh (aboard) or Worn (go to point 6)
6. Do I have more or less grip on my side of the track compared to my opponents side? Yes (go to point 7) or No (aboard)
7. Are there any other cars close by that can jeopardize my attempt? Yes (aboard) or No (go to point 8)
8. I'm approaching a corner entry that is good for overtaking. My opponent leaves the inside open. I carry enough speed to be well up my opponents side once we reach the brakingpoint. I have fresh tyres, and my opponents tyres are worn. I got more grip on my side of the track (be it because of better tyres or stickier tarmac). I got no cars that can jeopardize my or my opponents car/race.
A clean and safe pass will be executed. 👍

This is ofc in a perfect situation. You can ofc outbrake your opponent if he got fresh rubber, but if you do, you need to overlap even more compared to if your opponent are on worn tyres.
Decitions, decitions, decitions... Is what it all comes down to in the end.
Knowing your limits and respect the situations from what they are. If you can't pass, you can't pass..
If you got a 60% chance of passing... Don't try.
If you got a 70% chance of passing... Don't try.
If you got a 80% chance of passing... Don't try.
If you got a 90% chance of passing... If you're in the end of the race and see this opportunity as one of the last ones.. Try.. If not. Stay safe.
If you got a 100% chance of passing.. What are you waiting for? ;)


Be respectful against eachother out there. That's what it all comes down to.
We can state rules in infinity, but without the respect, the rules does'nt mean a thing.
This is on-line racing, and without the respect for other cars positions, we would never ever find ourselves having fun.
I have a lot of fun racing in this group, and that's not because of how we've stated the rules, it's because this is such an amazing group, with respectful individuals! Here's to that!! :cheers:
 
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Ummm I agree with most of that^, but At number 5 why do the cars in front tyres have to be worse to overtake?
Also on the paragraph where you say if 60%70%
I don't really understand that, sometimes if the car ahead leaves the inside and you aren't next to them or even right behind you wouldn't try the overtake where that chicane is one of the only places to overtake? I know I would.
As Ayrton Senna said " if you no longer go for a gap you are no longer a racing driver".
 
Ummm I agree with most of that^, but At number 5 why do the cars in front tyres have to be worse to overtake?
Also on the paragraph where you say if 60%70%
I don't really understand that, sometimes if the car ahead leaves the inside and you aren't next to them or even right behind you wouldn't try the overtake where that chicane is one of the only places to overtake? I know I would.
As Ayrton Senna said " if you no longer go for a gap you are no longer a racing driver".

Lol Josh..
I said that "in a perfect world".. As in I know this is'nt the case during all overtakes.
I say that it's all about decitions.. If you have much more speed than the car you're about to overtake, meening that you'll almost even pass your opponent before the brakingpoint, you have bigger margins.. And can therefore pass due to the advantage that you got.
What I tryed to show above is how you should act, given that the overtake is fairly tight. If you're way faster or for any other reason than stated (damaged opponent/opponent recovering from an off track situation/2 opponents are really slow to do batteling and you still have room to pass) have an advantage big enough for the tyres condition to not play a part, just overtake. 👍
But if the attempt is tight, you need to evaluate more scenarios and pay attention to more details.. Decitions, decitions, decitions..

It's not black or white as I stated above. Racing and racing situations are dynamic.. Rules are not. That's why discussions arise.

And just to be clear, what I wrote (as stated in my post) has nothing to do with a specific corner or incident. It was supposed to be a general statement.


And also, we can quote racing drivers, sure.
But this is on-line racing.
On-line racing is more about respect between racers compared to real life.
We also have a limited input sitting in front of a screen, with our opponents beeing far far away.
In on-line racing, respect is what it's all about.
You can ofc go for a gap that exist, but the margin for error is much smaller in GT5 for several reasons, hence why we as on-line racers need to be much more delicate with our manouvers.
 
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^^^ Den 👍
In real life, we both would have been more cautious.
We don't have the feel and control of driving real cars either. We also have ping, even when there is no lag. And a draft that makes it feel easier to pass than it is, and makes it seem more like a driver is holding you up.
To drive as cleanly as you would in real life, you have to drive what is considered cautious in a video game.
 
I'm not sure I'd want to hang other's lives or even time just on that Senna quote, personally (until it's factored against sufficient skill and the sort of race craft Dennis is talking about, even if the particulars vary). I think the discussion is good in any case.

A very quick search found me this:

http://gridwalktalk.com/?p=1552

Which of the two men would you trust next to you on the track contesting a corner? One, both, or neither?

One other key difference in sim driving is also that both people have to actually still want to be there for it to keep happening.
 
Room up:
1472-6118-3615-5264-8561
Closed

Sorry, I had to take care of last minute wife things... :/
 
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Adven seems afk so new room up: 1472-6681-3200-9599-5538 closed
 
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I'm going to miss this weeks race as I'm going to make use of the warm weather we have coming our way

Good luck guys
 
Is there anyone who could watch over my qualifying? Thanks in advance!

Edit: Josh is there already 👍
 
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Driver: GV27-
Steward: GTP_Josh-F

Lap 1- 2:24.343
Lap 2- 2:24.141

Awaiting confirmation for Phouon on second lap. It should be clean but gotta' be fair!
 
GV27- Quali Laps:
Lap 1: 2:24.343 Clean
Lap 2: 2:24.141 Clean
Edit: New room up 1472-6118-3830-2747-5568
 
Trajikone aka will-i-am

1. 2:25.873 Clean
2. 2:25.653 Clean 👍

Thank you for watching. Messed up that long left, scrubbing off a good .3 to .5 there. Entered to early :(. Did get my pb to a 24.886. That was good for me.

I'll try to be on for late q's. Will be up for Pzzc.

Litchi, when you get a chance. Can you send another message to fix the results for last race. No biggie though.
 
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