PURE | JGTS - Going on strong and adapting in the face of change!

  • Thread starter Denilson
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The bumper cam is the best one imo.

Solid gauges, most exact turn-ins, big rear view mirror.. Scale down the track map to "2", and you have the best possible set up when it comes to situational awareness. đź‘Ť
 
I also want to discuss something regarding the rules.

Since the tires now wear properly, is it a reasonable rule to leave the choice of tires open for the races?

And if we do, should we allow Racing Softs for quali?

I'm leaning towards allowing softs for quali, and limit the tires to medium and hards during the race..
Cause the softs are more like a quali tire imo..

We got 13 days to come to a final desition.. đź‘Ť
 
Denilson
The bumper cam is the best one imo.

Solid gauges, most exact turn-ins, big rear view mirror.. Scale down the track map to "2", and you have the best possible set up when it comes to situational awareness. đź‘Ť
Click to expand...

exactly. đź‘Ť

It's not a bumper cam though. It's what PD has been calling 'driver-camera' since back in the first GT. It's basically head-level in the center of the car, cycle through the cameras while stationary near an object and you can see that the POV of the cockpit and driver cam are almost identical, just that the cockpit isn't blocking your view. It basically turns your TV into a windscreen. Which IMO is ideal. Only thing missing is a little bit of hood at the bottom of the screen.

GV27
I see where you're coming from, and to be honest, in GT PSP I got used to driving in bumper cam and roof-cam, but racing online feels "dangerous" to me if it's not with chase cam. I used to race with a friend of mine a lot, and he ALWAYS messed up when I was overtaking him; he used to bump me out of the track a lot. Turns out he was using cockpit cam, and he never knew where I was (you can't expect a driver to keep using side view buttons at every breaking point). So I figured the best thing is racing with chase cam.
Click to expand...

Just like being in traffic in real life... glance at your mirror once in a while. And IMO it is the responsibility of the lead driver to look up at the rear-view before they turn in. Senna had it right, if you 'feel' the view around you it's because your situational awareness is subconscious. Which is a very good thing, you can concentrate on the road in front of you while your subconscious is glancing in mirrors and keeping track of everything around you.
 
Dr_Watson
exactly. đź‘Ť

It's not a bumper cam though. It's what PD has been calling 'driver-camera' since back in the first GT. It's basically head-level in the center of the car, cycle through the cameras while stationary near an object and you can see that the POV of the cockpit and driver cam are almost identical, just that the cockpit isn't blocking your view. It basically turns your TV into a windscreen. Which IMO is ideal. Only thing missing is a little bit of hood at the bottom of the screen.



Just like being in traffic in real life... glance at your mirror once in a while. And IMO it is the responsibility of the lead driver to look up at the rear-view before they turn in. Senna had it right, if you 'feel' the view around you it's because your situational awareness is subconscious. Which is a very good thing, you can concentrate on the road in front of you while your subconscious is glancing in mirrors and keeping track of everything around you.
Click to expand...

This!! đź‘Ť

Causing an incident because "I did not see him" is not an acceptable reason/excuse. Each driver can chose which view to use, but a view that does not have a rear view mirror is not optimal when it comes to situational awareness. Scaling down your track map to "2" will help you in a similar way as a rear view mirror works in real life.. Just glance at the track map (That's scaled down), and you get a good idea about where cars are positioned around you. No need to push buttons etc..
Turning off the HUD, and driving in cockpit/chase cam will most likely cause a wreck sometime during a season.

And with this said, next race is held at Monaco. The absolute worst track when it comes to incidents. Guard rails everywhere, and hard ones as well.. Also, the fact that there's no drive off areas make each wreck a possible obsticle for oncomming traffic, and mass wrecks are close calls all the time at Monaco.
So if there's any track where your situational awareness should be maximized, Monaco is the one..
 
No pileups at Monaco, surely? :P

I'm okay with opening up tire choice, but I have to ask, what makes softs any more viable a choice for qualifying now then 2 days ago?
From what I've seen it's the real life SuperGT way, but if softs were unacceptable before for qualifying, I don't see what's changed really.

I'm still all for it, it just confuses me, that's all.
 
CSLACR
No pileups at Monaco, surely? :P

I'm okay with opening up tire choice, but I have to ask, what makes softs any more viable a choice for qualifying now then 2 days ago?
From what I've seen it's the real life SuperGT way, but if softs were unacceptable before for qualifying, I don't see what's changed really.

I'm still all for it, it just confuses me, that's all.
Click to expand...

Pre 2.02, the tire modelling was broken. That's why we only allowed 1 tire.

Now, when it has been sorted, it seems natural to implement the tire strategy in to the races by allowing at least mediums and hards for the races. And if we do, it's a cool feature to implement the soft tire as a quali tire imo. đź‘Ť
 
As usual I'm totally with you Dennis đź‘Ť loving what you're proposing there.

Just thought I'd say that before I have to rush off for work. Which I have to do now :D.

Cheers guys, can't wait to do some testing with you all.

Official practice race soon?
 
Wow am I the only one who uses the Chase cam?! :dunce: I find it the easiest to drive with. I have been told it is weird for a wheel user to use Chase cam... Uh any comment on that guys? :D
 
Regarding tires:

What if we allowed the use of all tire compounds but we added a rule stating you have to start race 1 (and race 2?) on the same compound that was used during your qualifying run?
 
NEPALII
Wow am I the only one who uses the Chase cam?! :dunce: I find it the easiest to drive with. I have been told it is weird for a wheel user to use Chase cam... Uh any comment on that guys? :D
Click to expand...

That is weird. ;)
 
BrosifDuder
Regarding tires:

What if we allowed the use of all tire compounds but we added a rule stating you have to start race 1 (and race 2?) on the same compound that was used during your qualifying run?
Click to expand...

It's a good suggestion. But it adds some work to the administration, so I'm kind of not liking that idea.

Another reason why we should not implement such a rule is that it will be strange with the open qualifyer that we will implement from round 5. It is also counter active our grid rules (Or make them less effective at least).

With this in mind, I think we're keeping 1 compuond for quali.
 
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GT games historically favor RS tires, and if what Sail IC tested is even close to accurate, we can ditch the hopes of mixed compound racing, cause we'll all be using the softest allowed.
The amount of time gained overwhelms pit stop time in 3-5 laps on most tracks IIRC.

Since I still don't understand how tire wear has any relation to what tires we use for qualifying, I have to ask, does this mean continued hards for quali too? (assuming it's true)
 
NEPALII
Wow am I the only one who uses the Chase cam?! :dunce: I find it the easiest to drive with. I have been told it is weird for a wheel user to use Chase cam... Uh any comment on that guys? :D
Click to expand...

I use Chase when I (rarely) drive with a pad, but I find it feels odd with a wheel. If games support it, I prefer a bonnet cam. I can see the front corners of my car to judge apexes and it feels good. In GT I change between roof and bumper depending on the track, but I find roof to be a little high, and bumper to not give me enough feel for where the edges of my car are.

I'm not too sure about the tyre choice thing. Mostly because I'm pretty sure they won't be balanced to be equal-but-different. Given past GT history there's likely to be a strongly optimal tyre (and it's probably RS, as CSL says), so any choice pretty much goes straight out the window. It will remain to be seen whether that's the case, but yeah.

You could do an F1 style two-compounds and you must use both type of thing, but it's starting to get pretty complicated by that point. Nothing wrong with sticking with using one tyre compound, IMO.
 
Imari
I use Chase when I (rarely) drive with a pad, but I find it feels odd with a wheel. If games support it, I prefer a bonnet cam. I can see the front corners of my car to judge apexes and it feels good. In GT I change between roof and bumper depending on the track, but I find roof to be a little high, and bumper to not give me enough feel for where the edges of my car are.

I'm not too sure about the tyre choice thing. Mostly because I'm pretty sure they won't be balanced to be equal-but-different. Given past GT history there's likely to be a strongly optimal tyre (and it's probably RS, as CSL says), so any choice pretty much goes straight out the window. It will remain to be seen whether that's the case, but yeah.

You could do an F1 style two-compounds and you must use both type of thing, but it's starting to get pretty complicated by that point. Nothing wrong with sticking with using one tyre compound, IMO.
Click to expand...
Sail IC ran 8 lap "races" against himself at Nurb tonight.
RS needed a pit stop and still won by 5 seconds IIRC.

I've never tested, but I'm wondering if we can use SS tires should we feel the desire? Just thinking it could be viable in those awkward times where you can't quite make it to the finish on one set of RH's.
 
We'll defenetly need to test this new tire modelling before changing anything.. We got 12 days.

But, RS tires are not that interesting imo.
What tires did SailIC compare? Which tire did he beat by 5 seconds running RS.
If we'll implement a multi compound rule, it will most likely be RH, RM's..
 
Denilson
We'll defenetly need to test this new tire modelling before changing anything.. We got 12 days.

But, RS tires are not that interesting imo.
What tires did SailIC compare? Which tire did he beat by 5 seconds running RS.
If we'll implement a multi compound rule, it will most likely be RH, RM's..
Click to expand...

First off, if I know GT like I think I do, RM will eat up RH exactly half as much as RS. Meaning if RS can be faster over 40 laps by 20 seconds, medium will be 10 seconds faster, or close to.


Sail IC
I tested the new new tire model a bit. Online Private Lobby, Nurburgring GP/F. Calsonic stock power (518hp/610PP), 8 laps. To make it easy for me, I used a RH tire setup for both "races". Also to make it comparable, I didn't push hard in any of the races, but just tried to drive smooth but effective.

RS tires, 1 stop: 15min 41 sec
RH tires, 0 stop; 15min 48 sec

RS tires: Best lap time 1'53.3, worst lap 1'53.9 (lap 8)
RH tires: Best lap time 1'56.4, worst lap 1'59.4 (lap 8)

The RS tires had a little more the 50% left on them at the end of each stint, but were still delivering almost as good lap times as fresh. There was probably at least another two laps in them without laptimes going too high.

The RH tires had a little less than 50% left in them and lap times was increasing with each lap. If regulation would have stated RH only, it was probably time for a pitstop fairly soon.

At the last lap, the RS tires was 5.5 seconds faster. At 8 laps, the RS tires was 7 sec faster even if it had to do a pit stop. If the race would have been 2 laps longer, the RS tires would "win" with about an aditional 10-12 seconds, making them nrearly 20 seconds faster for the race. If the race would have been 6 laps, the RS tires could easily make it without a stop. If long races, RS tires will be faster at any lap combination.

I then modified the setup to more suit RS tires. Best lap was a 1'52.2, tires lasting 7 laps, last lap being in the 1'56, same as fresh RH tires. RS tires heat up slower than before, doesn't get completetely white, and get to its warmest when worn down to around 75% left. I previously done 1'49.8 in a 610PP GTR (no tuning restrictions however), so best laptimes are slower than before, at least what i got in this short test.

So unfortunately it doesn't work as we hoped. That RS or RH would post similar race time, RH being slower but making it up in fewer stops. Bummer.
Click to expand...
So over just 8 laps, even with a pit, RS was 7 seconds faster. To top it off, RS tires last 7 laps in his test, which means this is the closest the two compounds will get, being an 8 lap length.
1 less lap and the RS is winning by 35 seconds. 6 laps more and RS is winning by around 50 seconds to a full minute.

TBH it's not even close enough imo to bother testing. Until GT models tires, RS will abolish all, and RM is just in between, meaning it will still abolish RH's.
 
Aderrrm: Can you post that replay file from the La Sarthe race?

Or did you already and I've missed it (most likely)..?
 
Merry xmas to all of you!

While we relax with family, relatives and friends during the holidays, I'd like to put some things up for you all to think about..

1. We'll remove the race % completion.

2. Point table is re done in line with the number of drivers (24).
32, 30, 28, 26, 24, 22, 20, 18, 16, 14, 12, 10
16, 15, 14, 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5

16, 14, 12, 10, 8, 6, 4, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2
8, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1

3. 12 drivers in each division.

4. Tires will be racing Hards only as usual.

5. I'll make sure to download the La Sarthe replay after xmas, and I'll post the results.
I will also (with help from Tim) rework the total table.

6. Monaco pole in WSGTC 2: 1:31.330
 
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GV remember these cars specs are slightly slower than the S2 WSGTC specs :sly:.
 
Merry Christmas! I hope every one's safe and is being treated well :)

See you all on track next year! xD
 
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