Questioning Religion

[PS]

[o/t ]lol

 

[Minnesota01R6]

OK guys I feel I have to put in my $.02 since I am pretty knowledgeable about religion in general and I have done some questioning of my own:

First off, the difference between a cult and a religion is that you are encouraged to question your faith in a religion. In a cult, you cannot question your faith. I went to 15 years of private catholic school, and we had a "deprogrammer" (one who kidnaps people out of cults and convinces them to go back to their families) come in and speak to us - it was an eye opening experience.

Second, it has been my experience that people who subscribe to an organized religion are hypocrites. I am not saying that everyone is, but those close to me are very quick to judge your shortcomings while completely ignoring their own. Maybe it is just that the criticism is based on religious tenants (that I don’t agree with), but I feel that I am a better Christian than 90% of the Christians that go to church every week.

Third, any religion or spirituality can be boiled down to a philosophy based on “God” but the same results can be reached without the use of God whatsoever. For instance, most if not all widely recognized philosophical systems would yield the same result as the Ten Commandments, but philosophical systems are flexible because they use a formula rather than state conclusions. Let me give you an example: The Catholic Church says you should not use birth control. Without saying simply “God wants it that way” we can analyze why (in the time when the Ten Commandments were written) one might want to not use birth control (continuation of the species, passing along genetics, more Catholics in the world…etc). But, today the world is overpopulated, and what WAS good 3,000 years ago might not be such a good idea. A system of philosophy can change its answer and say that birth control is a good thing because the formula takes into account things like overpopulation, modern medicine, etc. Take Utilitarianism for example: one could say that the best thing for everyone in the world is to have one child to replace every adult and no more. The catholic faith can’t reach this conclusion because its conclusion is written in stone.

Finally, I would like to say that faith in God isn’t needed in order to be a good person. If you choose to believe in God, I hope that you don’t do it just because you think you need it to be a good person or get into heaven.

 

[Gil]

Since I've been "called out"

First off, a true "church" has not one little thing to do with a building that people go to to worship.
A church is a group of believers, that gather together to praise and worship the Lord. The "sermon" time, and bible class time are a time to fortify each other to go forth and spread our message of faith.

Some do this by accosting every person they run into, I myself was ambushed by a JW coming out of the hospital after work the other day.

I try to live my life as an example, and people come to me to find out about my "inner peace".
I'm often the one that takes "difficult" patients, or patients that have difficult families, because they don't throw me off my game, or get me flustered. I'm often the only one that can calm the jerks that come on the floor. Often things that seem to be so "disasterous" don't phase me. I've even had people comment that shifts are so calm when I'm around, and all Hell breaks loose when I'm not.

I'd like to believe that my extreme competence is to blame. But I'm just not all that great. Don't get me wrong, I'm a very good nurse. But there have been things that have happened that can only be explained by my having a certain number of gaurdian angels watching my back. That secondary to the fact that I believe and try to follow the tenets laid down by Jesus in the Bible.

Am I going to tell you that I'm "better" than you because I believe, and you don't? Not at all. There are, and have been some very good people that have passed thru my life that have been unbelievers. There have also been some real snots that have passed thru that have been believers.
Christians aren't trying to get you be someone other than who you are. God takes people from where they are. A journey of faith doesn't require a pilgrimage to someplace you aren't so you can find your way to God. God finds you when you're ready, and willing.

 

[Ten]

Gil, thank you.

I don't have a problem with christians as a whole - just the ones who "cram it down my throught". Hell, I don't even have a problem with them. I was once approached by a man handing out pocket bibles at the local community college. The first thing he saw was my Jim Morrison t-shirt, and laced right into me about how the music I listen to can lead me "astray" on the path to heaven. I smiled, accepted the bible he gave me, and, being tolerant as I am, opted not to throw it in the garbage. I left it in the library, on top of a reference computer - surely someone more assigned to the faith will make proper use of it.

I really appreciate your feedback, Gil. And I apologize if I inadvertantly offended anyone by saying "loose faith". You've shown that a person can be just as devout, without being just as strict. You're a good guy, Gil. ^^

 

[Duke]

That he is. I'm looking forward to sharing a beer with him some day.

 

[Danoff]

Everything is speculation beyond what science can prove, and I don't care to really have someone tell me that they do know.

I'm not religious, but I had to comment on this. Science can't prove much. Deductive reasoning is not proof, it's a gamble. It's a gamble that pays off in many cases, but it isn't the same thing as a logical proof.

Science is on comparitively shaky ground when compared to other areas. Here's the pecking order of knowledge.

1) Truth (which is impossible to reach)
2) Logic (we're a little less than absolutely 100% certain of logic)
3) Mathematics (which can be derived from logic with a few more assumptions)
4) Science (which is based on deductive reasoning, which is flawed)

Number 5 might be conjecture or something, but the point is that science is significantly less certain than mathematics which is less certain than logic which is the closest thing we have to truth.

 

[VIPFREAK]

The only religion I follow is Viperism... eh.. maybe I.d.ism too now. 👍

 

[Ten]

I'm not religious, but I had to comment on this. Science can't prove much. Deductive reasoning is not proof, it's a gamble. It's a gamble that pays off in many cases, but it isn't the same thing as a logical proof.

Science is on comparitively shaky ground when compared to other areas. Here's the pecking order of knowledge.

1) Truth (which is impossible to reach)
2) Logic (we're a little less than absolutely 100% certain of logic)
3) Mathematics (which can be derived from logic with a few more assumptions)
4) Science (which is based on deductive reasoning, which is flawed)

Number 5 might be conjecture or something, but the point is that science is significantly less certain than mathematics which is less certain than logic which is the closest thing we have to truth.

I understand where you're coming from, but speaking from a logical point of view, I still believe that the only way to know what happened is to have been there. I highly doubt the person(s) involved in the writing of the Bible or the Book of Genesis were. That's essentially what I meant.

 

[Biggs]

My family arent religous, but I have looked into stuff like it. None of it seems to make sense to me, it all seems so haphazard and made up. Science fills the gaps much better than Religion does.

 

[s13drifting]

You're aware you go to a Catholic school aren't you? .

yes and i am not catholic. and you do not have to be one to attend one, there are jews, muslums, satanist, buddhist, atheist etc. in my school. all their parents forced them like mine did.
and right now i am learning in religeon class that a lot of people go throuhg a stage of questioning and its completely normal. so this thread is pointless now and can be closed down. i was seeking advice and help. but few seemed to want to do this, lukily this was the topic in my second period class and in a 90 minute class all my questions for this thread were answered.

ANY MODS IN HERE YOU CAN CLOSE THIS THREAD I HAVE ALREADY GOT MY QUESTIONS ANSWERED BY MY TEACHER.

 

[Emohawk]

Maybe your questions are answered, but I think this thread still has a lot of interesting discussion left in it (I've been following along silently). It also seems remarkably un flame filled.
I see no reason it should be locked, but it's really up to the mods.

 

[240Z]

yes and i am not catholic. and you do not have to be one to attend one, there are jews, muslums, satanist, buddhist, atheist etc. in my school. all their parents forced them like mine did.
and right now i am learning in religeon class that a lot of people go throuhg a stage of questioning and its completely normal. so this thread is pointless now and can be closed down. i was seeking advice and help. but few seemed to want to do this, lukily this was the topic in my second period class and in a 90 minute class all my questions for this thread were answered.

ANY MODS IN HERE YOU CAN CLOSE THIS THREAD I HAVE ALREADY GOT MY QUESTIONS ANSWERED BY MY TEACHER.

First of all, why are you asking you Catholic teacher at your Catholic school about religion when you're going through a stage of questioning? I assume that you want reasonably unbiased (considering no one can be completely opinionless on religion) advice. Remember:

It is his (or her) job to convince you to be Catholic (or reinforce this)​

 

[Delirious]

I never really got where Cain's wife came from. They screwed it up for me around that page.

cain married his sister, incest at that time wasnt a problem since the downfall of man into sin had just started, later incest became a problem

obviously im a believer, a proud believer

i just cannot see the fact why people cannot believe that there is one ultimate truth to this world

i also cannot accept the fact we were born on this earth for no reason, that we live and die, thats it

it just blows my mind that some people cannot believe there is an intelligent designer to this world and universe...how did all of this come to existence? would all of existence as we know it today with its minute detail everywhere be for no reason?

i see it as if you see a painting in a forest, there must have been a painter...it didnt just get there, and that there must be some form of divine creator to all of existence as we know it today

 

[MrktMkr1986]

obviously im a believer, a proud believer

Me too.

i just cannot see the fact why people cannot believe that there is one ultimate truth to this world

They want physical proof...

i also cannot accept the fact we were born on this earth for no reason, that we live and die, thats it

Everyone has a purpose...

i see it as if you see a painting in a forest, there must have been a painter...it didnt just get there, and that there must be some form of divine creator to all of existence as we know it today

Intersting analogy... some would argue, though, that the "painter" is not necessarily a divine being -- that there are other factors that created what we see today (evolution, Big Bang etc.)

 

[Delirious]

when i first believed, i didnt know anything about christianity, i just accepted it by faith, and for almost 2 years now it has changed my life for the better (proof through old poetry from me wanting to kill myself to praising God)

 

[MrktMkr1986]

when i first believed, i didnt know anything about christianity, i just accepted it by faith, and for almost 2 years now it has changed my life for the better (proof through old poetry from me wanting to kill myself to praising God)

Glad to hear you've recovered. 👍

In my opinion, just because you've never seen something before, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

 

[Ten]

I second that, but I also believe that just because everyone says it went down in a certain manner, doesn't mean it did.

I don't believe there's a grand creator, and I don't believe there isn't. It's a funny thing called not really caring.

Even if I did believe there was a God or Jesus, or what have you - I wouldn't make a "religion" from it. I'd just look up at the sky every now and then, and give a thumbs up and wink.

"Thanks for the gift of life, J.C.!" 👍 👍

 

[Delirious]

i see it as having a personal relationship with God through Jesus Christ, not a religion

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

I second that, but I also believe that just because everyone says it went down in a certain manner, doesn't mean it did.

I don't believe there's a grand creator, and I don't believe there isn't. It's a funny thing called not really caring.

Even if I did believe there was a God or Jesus, or what have you - I wouldn't make a "religion" from it. I'd just look up at the sky every now and then, and give a thumbs up and wink.

"Thanks for the gift of life, J.C.!" 👍 👍

There are people called deists that believe God created the universe and left.

yes and i am not catholic. and you do not have to be one to attend one, there are jews, muslums, satanist, buddhist, atheist etc. in my school. all their parents forced them like mine did.
and right now i am learning in religeon class that a lot of people go throuhg a stage of questioning and its completely normal. so this thread is pointless now and can be closed down. i was seeking advice and help. but few seemed to want to do this, lukily this was the topic in my second period class and in a 90 minute class all my questions for this thread were answered.

ANY MODS IN HERE YOU CAN CLOSE THIS THREAD I HAVE ALREADY GOT MY QUESTIONS ANSWERED BY MY TEACHER.

That's the same thing a person told me when I asked them. They told me it might be a mid-life crisis. In the end, I decided that I was an atheist.

 

[Famine]

First of all, why are you asking you Catholic teacher at your Catholic school about religion when you're going through a stage of questioning? I assume that you want reasonably unbiased (considering no one can be completely opinionless on religion) advice. Remember:

It is his (or her) job to convince you to be Catholic (or reinforce this)​

Applause. Round of.

I was going to say something along the same lines, but we all know how s13drifting reacts to criticism.

it just blows my mind that some people cannot believe there is an intelligent designer to this world and universe...how did all of this come to existence? would all of existence as we know it today with its minute detail everywhere be for no reason?

i see it as if you see a painting in a forest, there must have been a painter...it didnt just get there, and that there must be some form of divine creator to all of existence as we know it today

It just blows my mind that people can simply accept that a Creator created the Universe, but didn't need anyone to create the Creator.

Two little Latin phrases for you:

"Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem" - One should not, without necessity, multiply entities. Stating that a Creator created the universe gives you another entity to deal with. Who created that Creator though? Must be another entity. Oh, but who created the Creator's Creator? And so on.

"Quis aedificat ipsos artifex" - Who created the creator?

 

[Delirious]

God has always been, before time existed, before the garden of eden...it still baffles me, i know

by the way, if the big bang happened, where did the big bang come from? something out of nothing? it makes more logical sense that an all powerful Creator has always been in existence than somehow without explanation a big bang came out of nothing and created the universe for no reason

 

[Famine]

God has always been, before time existed, before the garden of eden...it still baffles me, i know

by the way, if the big bang happened, where did the big bang come from? something out of nothing? it makes more logical sense that an all powerful Creator has always been in existence than somehow without explanation a big bang came out of nothing and created the universe for no reason

How very circular.

The Big Bang can't have happened because something can't come out of nothing for no reason?

Yet "God" can have existed for all eternity - something from nothing - to create the universe?


Out of interest, why the "for no reason"? Why does the universe, or anything in it, have to have a reason behind it? Or do you mean that there is no reasoning to how the Big Bang occurred? Because you'd be wrong if you did mean that.

 

[Delirious]

if the big bang happened, some science fact came from nothing for no reason...or
an all powerful God that has always been in existence and created the universe for a divine reason

i find it very hard to believe that this whole universe with its VERY minute detail could have came for no reason...why would something as great and vast as the universe be for no reason...sounds like everything in existence is pointless...

if theres a painting in the forest you see, there must have been a painter, and as for the universe and earth, there has to be a creator...and the big bang alternative for no reason existence doesnt sound too appealing to me

 

[izayoi]

Hello XVII!!

I agree with you 100%

The God is only one God The creater of the Universe , Earth and everything in it.
The son has been with him from begning of creation of the earth. And The God has his great NAME. (Jehovah) psalm83:18

izayoi

 

[Tacet_Blue]

And The God has his great NAME. (Jehovah) psalm83:18

izayoi

No its Allah, no it's Buddha, no it's Ceres, no it's Zeus...

Whatever makes you happy

On the intelligent designer thing... How clever it was to make dolphins breathe air, they live in water their whole lives but are disadvantaged by having to surface all the time. Whales, deep sea creatures, that are at severe risk to hunters when they surface to breathe.

What about the sea turtles that have to haul their great bodies out of the water to lay eggs on the beach, only to have their babies run the gauntlet of sea birds and crabs before they reach the safety of the water. It doesn't sound very intelligent at all.

How about the parasitic tick, that accidentally kills its host, so it dies itself...not so smart. Why does the King Brown snake have enough venom in its body at any one time, to kill 250,000 rats, when in its lifetime it will eat a fraction of that...inefficient design

On a larger scale, earthquakes, and volcanoes...hmmm, must just be there to add a bit of excitement. The city of Pompeii didn't think Volcano's were very clever!

There are 100,000 people in east Asia that certainly don't admire the intelligent design of a Tsunami. What kind of God would wipe out a 100,000 in one day? What was the "Divine Purpose" of that?

 

[Cosmic]

I have hard to belive in things like that. Actaully, I don't even care.
God here god there...psssffff! Bla bla bla....
Everybody has their own opinion so.....

 

[Anderton Prime]

Umm, Tacet, even if you don't believe in the stories in the Bible, you must be familiar with the theory that because of the Original Sin, Adam and Eve - and ultimately all human beings - were cast out of paradise (Heaven) and forced to live out their mortal lives in a place where God would not connect with them directly. Only their faith in a being they have never seen evidence of could help them return to God.

That would explain your fallen world with all those "imperfect" animals and natural disasters.

 

[Delirious]

yeah, things were very good before the sin of man, that lions and lambs would live together in peace...no bloodshed, tacet, none of those occured when things were very good...

 

[Ghost C]

yeah, things were very good before the sin of man, that lions and lambs would live together in peace...no bloodshed, tacet, none of those occured when things were very good...

And you know this...How? Because a book told you?

 

[MrktMkr1986]

And you know this...How? Because a book told you?

Much of what anyone knows comes from books. What makes the Bible any different?