Questioning Religion

[Delirious]

why question just the Bible? why not question what your text books teach you? how do you know what the history books are teaching you are right? you accept the information that the textbooks tell you, plus...if you wanted to look for Bible evidence...it's all around us, just look for it (e.g. archaeology, dead sea scrolls)

not to mention the Bible is the only reliable book that claims to be inspired of God

 

[MrktMkr1986]

why question just the Bible? why not question what your text books teach you? how do you know what the history books are teaching you are right? you accept the information that the textbooks tell you, plus...if you wanted to look for Bible evidence...it's all around us, just look for it (e.g. archaeology, dead sea scrolls)

That's exactly what I was implying.

Why only question the Bible? When your teacher/professor assigns you a textbook, how do you know all of the information contained within the textbook is factual information?

 

[Famine]

You don't. You question it. You question everything. Science is based upon questioning, testing and reasoning/logic. You have a theory, you test the theory - minimising the variables - and deduct an answer to your original theory based upon the results. All science is peer-reviewed - meaning other scientists check over your theory, methods, results and conclusions and come to their own conclusions based on how "scientific" your methods are.

"Science" derives from the Latin verb "scire" - "To Know".

the Bible is the only reliable book that claims to be inspired of God

What?

What makes the Bible "reliable" as a source of information? It's a book of stories. Written, in the case of the New Testament - stories about "The Son of God", between 40 and 150 years after the "death" of the central character...

if the big bang happened, some science fact came from nothing for no reason

You didn't answer my question.

Do you mean that there is no scientific reasoning as to why the Big Bang occurred (which is incorrect) or that the Universe suddenly popped into existence with no purpose (which is flawed - why MUST anything have a purpose?)

...or an all powerful God that has always been in existence and created the universe for a divine reason

So "God" can have always existed, but the Universe cannot?

What happened "before" the Universe existed has answers. Where did God from doesn't - apart from "oh, he's always been there" which has absolutely NO logic to it whatsoever.

i find it very hard to believe that this whole universe with its VERY minute detail could have came for no reason...why would something as great and vast as the universe be for no reason...sounds like everything in existence is pointless...

And if it is? So what?

The universe will eventually either collapse in on itself, or all of the energy and matter will dissipate according to the laws of entropy (the latter is more likely, given current evidence), rendering all endeavour, acheivement and indeed life ultimately pointless. So what (I say again)?

if theres a painting in the forest you see, there must have been a painter

You've already said that - and it's no more accurate this time than it was last time.

Have you never deriven a pattern in clouds? Well, I guess the Great Cloud Painty Man must have arranged it that way for you. Right?

and as for the universe and earth, there has to be a creator...and the big bang alternative for no reason existence doesnt sound too appealing to me

Ah! Now we reach the hub of the matter.

You don't like current cosmological theory - despite reams and reams and reams of material and observational evidence which has been peer-reviewed and ratified - so therefore it is wrong.

 

[Delirious]

or maybe you just lack faith, or maybe you know that there is a God and that if you believe in Him, that means you will have to turn away from certain lifestyles that you may have that are not pleasing to God...

i just know when i got saved, i didnt know anything about christianity, didnt know about how reliable the bible was, evolution vs creation stuff, whatever...didnt ask, because i knew i needed to be saved from man's sin

i took a step of faith into God, and for almost 2 years...it has transformed my life, THEN i did the research that points to an intelligent designer of the universe and a God inspired book called the Bible

 

[Famine]

or maybe you just lack faith, or maybe you know that there is a God and that if you believe in Him, that means you will have to turn away from certain lifestyles that you may have that are not pleasing to God...

Avoid the questions. Nice.

Why must people resort to amateur psychoanalysis in order to avoid answering serious questions?

i just know when i got saved, i didnt know anything about christianity, didnt know about how reliable the bible was, evolution vs creation stuff, whatever...didnt ask, because i knew i needed to be saved from man's sin

There are threads for Evolution vs. Creation stuff. Lengthy, lengthy threads. Read any one of them and you'll find megabytes of information about how unreliable the Bible is as a reference guide to cosmology and ecology. "Intelligent Design" is an incredibly poor effort at "science", trying fool people into thinking that there is evidence for it. And it doesn't stand up to even the most basic probing.

 

[240Z]

Here is a link to the most recent of the "Creation vs. Evolution" threads:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=51448

 

[Sage]

XVII – You evaded all of my questions in another thread, and now you're evading all of Famine's questions. Keep it up, and I'll show you the door, not because of you religious beliefs, but because you're doing the equivalent of spamming – your posts have no substance to them, but rather you're just mumbling to yourself while everybody else is trying to actually have a conversation. Forums were made so that you could tell yourself the same things over and over again – they were made for people to have real discussions. So discuss, or leave.

 

[Delirious]

www.answersingenesis.org and the other side of intelligent design...megabytes of information proving intelligent design

i got saved through faith that christianity was true, i didnt question anything about it, just took a step of faith, and THEN did the research and found what was being taught to me being true

i could argue with you forever concerning evolution vs creation, Bible inspiration, etc. on apologetics...but it wont do anything but waste our time, you have to do the research on christianity and see if it is a lie...and dont settle for half witted refuting of christianity...i promise you, if you do the research and mean it, you will find your answer...even if it takes years

www.answersingenesis.org is a good place to start researching

edit, to the moderator...did not mean to break the rules, this will be my last post in this thread

 

[Famine]

www.answersingenesis.org and the other side of intelligent design...megabytes of information proving intelligent design

i got saved through faith that christianity was true, i didnt question anything about it, just took a step of faith, and THEN did the research and found what was being taught to me being true

i could argue with you forever concerning evolution vs creation, Bible inspiration, etc. on apologetics...but it wont do anything but waste our time, you have to do the research on christianity and see if it is a lie...and dont settle for half witted refuting of christianity...i promise you, if you do the research and mean it, you will find your answer...even if it takes years

www.answersingenesis.org is a good place to start researching

I research everything. Right now I'm researching that link - but don't expect it to be any better than the previous sites on this subject I've visited ("Look! We're exactly the right distance from the Sun. God must have put us here!")

Edit: What a shocker. Anyone who believes science is based on "presuppositions" - and that his (that there is a God and He made everything) are better than anyone else's - isn't worth the time I just spent reading that crap.

 

[Sage]

i got saved through faith that christianity was true, i didnt question anything about it, just took a step of faith, and THEN did the research and found what was being taught to me being true

This is exactly what I'm talking about. You keep repeating things over and over. Anybody can tell you that while repetition might make for good memorization, it doesn't make anything truer.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Umm, Tacet, even if you don't believe in the stories in the Bible, you must be familiar with the theory that because of the Original Sin, Adam and Eve - and ultimately all human beings - were cast out of paradise (Heaven) and forced to live out their mortal lives in a place where God would not connect with them directly. Only their faith in a being they have never seen evidence of could help them return to God.

That would explain your fallen world with all those "imperfect" animals and natural disasters.

I was only being tongue in cheek about the "Intelligent Design"

Normally the response is: "It's the devils work" but fallen world is just as good.

if you wanted to look for Bible evidence...it's all around us, just look for it (e.g. archaeology, dead sea scrolls)

Err... you do realise that the dead sea scrolls actually contradict most of what is written in the old testament...

Archaeology!! Oh yes they found the Ark...

Religion is about BELIEF, don't try and bring science into it, or talk about evidence. Your belief is a personal thing, keep it to yourself and be happy. When I am burning in hell, you can laugh at me and say "I told you so"

 

[izayoi]

Hi Do you believe this, That men are originary made to live forever?
If it wasn't Adam's sin we are still living forever. We have proof on our own bodies that we are made to live forever. Our Brains is one of proof. Why god made our brains have so vast capacity; it able to store knowledges, memories etc. for it takes 1billion times man's life time could use all that blank disk space <...sort of speak. if we live only 70, 80, 90, even 150? No need all that space.
There are many other proofs .
And many Whys will answers if you study The Bible.

izayoi

 

[Famine]

Every chromosome in the human cell has a telomere - a sequence of repeating bases on each end of the chromosome. These telomeres reduce in length each time the cell divides. When the telomeres are gone, the chromosomes become gradually more and more eroded until they mutate and go insane or they activate an apoptosis marker and kill themselves.

Human cells are NOT made to live forever.

The Bible makes no mention of this.

 

[ledhed]

The guy s that wrote the Bible didn't know about cells.

 

[PS]

I don't think people were made very intelligent either. Hence the cavemen, cromagnon man, homosapien etc. And what purpose did dinosaurs serve? To give smaller creatures living in their little paradise a run for their money? Or was god just screwing around and seeing what crazy animals he could make? Or how about the absoluttely minute and somewhat insignificant sea critters that were so microscopic, they couldn't possibly do anything but float in the sea, filter water, and absorb nutrients. Or how about the monkeys? The monkeys, and the apes, which then evolved into humans? I suppose that was all gods work too. Or did god just have humans from the beginning, and then throw in a bunch of creatures along the way, along various line of evolution, to mess with us, and try and get 2 conflicting opinions to arise? The reason I never had faith was because I never had evidence, and the fact I thought it was all a load of bullshizzle. You show me a piece of FACTUAL...EVIDENCE... that supports the existence of god.

Note: Mysterious phenomena involving clouds, rock formations, crazy weather, geological events, wars, or other irregular happenings will be dismissed. It must be either material, or documented evidence. The bible does not count, although it is my favourite peice of fiction literature.

 

[a6m5]

Way I look at it, you are not an better/superior person, just because you believe or not believe in a religion. There are good and bad people on both sides.

 

[MrktMkr1986]

Way I look at it, you are not an better/superior person, just because you believe or not believe in a religion. There are good and bad people on both sides.

I agree. Many people use religion to cover up evil behavior... Then there are others who don't necessarily believe in a God and they do lots of good.

 

[Famine]

The guy s that wrote the Bible didn't know about cells.

But they must have. The Bible is "The Word of God" and "the Bible is the only reliable book that claims to be inspired of God".

Can't be that reliable if I know something God didn't.

 

[Anderton Prime]

But they must have. The Bible is "The Word of God" and "the Bible is the only reliable book that claims to be inspired of God".

Can't be that reliable if I know something God didn't.

Stop being foolish. The Bible is NOT the word of God, it is a re-telling of His story and the story of creation by MORTAL HUMAN BEINGS. God did NOT write the Bible, nor did he dictate while everyone took notes. the New Testament contains some words of jesus, but the conversations were mostly about how to treat one another and how to live a life in touch with God. Jesus didn't come to earth to lecture about cell structure and mitosis vs. meiosis and the production of mRNA. If you were joking with that post, STOP IT. This is not a thread to joke around in. It's serious.

Sorry for the harshness.

 

[Famine]

Stop being foolish. The Bible is NOT the word of God, it is a re-telling of His story and the story of creation by MORTAL HUMAN BEINGS. God did NOT write the Bible, nor did he dictate while everyone took notes. the New Testament contains some words of jesus, but the conversations were mostly about how to treat one another and how to live a life in touch with God. Jesus didn't come to earth to lecture about cell structure and mitosis vs. meiosis and the production of mRNA. If you were joking with that post, STOP IT. This is not a thread to joke around in. It's serious.

Sorry for the harshness.

Actually, I was being serious.

The Bible is often claimed as being the Word of God, transcribed by those lucky enough to hear His Words. And, given that the New Testament was written more than 40 years after the "death" of Jesus, how accurate can the "words of Jesus" contained therein actually be?

The reason why Jesus didn't lecture about cell structure (mitosis and meiosis have no role in Apoptosis) was because it was unknown at the time. Which is a pity since, according to the Bible, Jesus IS God as part of the Holy Trinity, meaning he was, like God, omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent, yet ignorant of molecular biology techniques.


Thus, the Bible cannot be regarded as "the only reliable book that claims to be inspired of God" since it contains gross, glaring inaccuracies and an extreme paucity of the most simplistic scientific infomation. It can only be regarded as a book of moral tales. Much like Aesop's Fables.


Of course, that's fine. If people want to live their lives by a book of moral tales, that's got nothing to do with me (unless they choose to be really crappy to other people based on their interpretation of it). Hell, if someone wants to live their life according to the teachings of The Lord of the Rings, it's got nothing to do with me. It doesn't necessarily mean that you can rely on it for ultimate proof of all science being wrong.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

And, given that the New Testament was written more than 40 years after the "death" of Jesus, how accurate can the "words of Jesus" contained therein actually be?

On the origin of the Bible, the King of Judea had it written as a political statement, and he wanted to state the importance of his own Kingdom.
At this time it had no structure, no verses or chapters, it was re-written every year, new parts included, some parts excluded.

The Bible as we know today, with its Gospels and chapters was actually first written buy a Roman emperor in AD 340, and known as the Codex Vaticanus. He wanted to bring order to it, and have a single book, rather than many versions, he also added his own beliefs and threw away ones he didn't like

The Gospel according to Mary (which turned up on the German black market ) is still rebuked by Christians, as it paints a very different picture. There are other Gospels that have been lost over the years, or deliberately thrown away as the direction of the religion changes.

All the Gospels contradict each other, few people actually read the whole Bible, so they are not aware. Take for example the most famous story, the Nativity. Two Gospels (Luke and John) fail to mention the birth of Christ at all, they start with Jesus as a man. Matthew and Mark mention the birth, but only Matthew talks about wise men and Shepherds.

It has been said that if the Gospels were eye witness accounts for a murder...with so many discrepancies, it would not even make it to court

 

[Carl.]

You damn heretic.

Let's burn him!!

 

[Pako]

To answer the original question, Yes I have questioned my religion, but I have never questioned God's existence.

Gil,
Once again, very well put!

 

[Pako]

*snip*

All the Gospels contradict each other, few people actually read the whole Bible, so they are not aware. Take for example the most famous story, the Nativity. Two Gospels (Luke and John) fail to mention the birth of Christ at all, they start with Jesus as a man. Matthew and Mark mention the birth, but only Matthew talks about wise men and Shepherds.

It has been said that if the Gospels were eye witness accounts for a murder...with so many discrepancies, it would not even make it to court

I'm not seeing how these would be considered contradictions. I would see it as a contradiction if they explained 'different' accounts of the birth of Christ, but in your example there are no contradictions.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

I'm not seeing how these would be considered contradictions. I would see it as a contradiction if they explained 'different' accounts of the birth of Christ, but in your example there are no contradictions.

In Marks account Jesus was not born in a stable, there was no star or wise men. In Luke and John's account Jesus was an ordinary man born like any other.

Mary's account is Jesus as a flesh and blood man, not the son of God, but a real man with a vision, more like a philosopher. Her account was removed, not only because it made Jesus out to be "normal" but also it was to suppress the role of women in Church. It was not acceptable at the time to have a woman teaching the word of Jesus.

There are still very few women in senior roles in the Church.

There are many more contradictions, or different versions of his life, I'll dig up some more examples if you want, but I can only remember the Nativity for now.

Edit: Also no Virgin Birth in Marks Gospel.

Edit: Well this is not an official site, but I'm sure with a copy of the Bible anyone could check these out...so

A full list of the 610 Gospel contradictions starting with 1-72 the birth of Christ.

 

[PS]

Good stuff, Tacet. The Virgin Mary thing was another good point, how am I suppose to have a faith to question, if indeed Mary had a baby but noone to...plant the seed?

 

[Delirious]

i know i said i wouldnt post in this thread again...but the statement above by PS pushed me over

God being all powerful...wouldnt you think it would be easy for Him to have mary have a child while still being a virgin? God created existence and humans, so i think God wouldnt have a problem with doing that

Thus why we have the birth of the Savior, Jesus Christ
born of a virgin, sinless, the son of God

believe me or not...it's truth

by the way, there are no contradictions in the Bible, 2 things you have to keep in mind while considering contradictions

1. CONTEXT, just because something looks like it doesnt line up with another passage does NOT mean that it's a contradiction, if you do just a little studying in the passages, you will find a very easy and simple explanation as to why they do not contradict

2. language entropy has taken place since the days those events took place so what was spoken then may not make sense to us completely, so there are some problem passages in the Bible, but by no means does that make it a contradiction

example, there are different spellings or renderings of names in the Bible, like Isaiah in the old testament equals esaias in the new testament (esaias being greek)

"Mark went down to play with his dog. Marcus later watched T.V." Is that a contradiction? NO! Just another spelling...

 

[Famine]

believe me or not...it's truth

You know this because...?

i know i said i wouldnt post in this thread again...but the statement above by PS pushed me over

"Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other;"

Luke 6; 28-29

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Thus why we have the birth of the Savior, Jesus Christ
born of a virgin, sinless, the son of God

believe me or not...it's truth

Not according to Mark...and he was there, remember.

by the way, there are no contradictions in the Bible, 2 things you have to keep in mind while considering contradictions

I take it you didn't bother visiting the link I provided. Things like where and when he was born are quite important...nothing to do with context.

I'm beginning to think that you have never read the Bible yourself, if you think there are NO contradictions.

When was Jesus born?

Matthew: "In the days of Herod" (ii, 1).

Luke: "When Cyrenius was governor of Syria" (ii, 1-7).

 

[Delirious]

well pushed, moved me to say something, however you wanna put it...im not an angry person, i felt like i had to respond to that