Questioning Religion

[Delirious]

...i actually attend a bible school (going into full time ministry, youth ministry to be exact) i know what the bible says, and if you do enough studying, you will find that there are no contradictions

by the way, herod was the king of judah wile cyrenius (or quirinius) was governor of syria...two COMPLETELY diffrerent countries and two COMPLETELY different positions

study the bible for yourself, i promise you there are answers to every problem passage that you see...

(i apologize for the double post)

 

[PS]

i know i said i wouldnt post in this thread again...but the statement above by PS pushed me over

God being all powerful...wouldnt you think it would be easy for Him to have mary have a child while still being a virgin? God created existence and humans, so i think God wouldnt have a problem with doing that

You have no proof of that. And who's sperm was it that god inseminated her with? Huh? Answer me that. Or if he could just impregnate her, why couldn't he have just *poof* made a baby? Or for that matter, since he made the entire universe, what does he even need mary for?

Thus why we have the birth of the Savior, Jesus Christ
born of a virgin, sinless, the son of God

believe me or not...it's truth

Uh, can you prove it? How do you know it's the truth? And what are your opinions on the many, MANY, other religions out there? Or is there only one, reflecting god?

by the way, there are no contradictions in the Bible, 2 things you have to keep in mind while considering contradictions

1. CONTEXT, just because something looks like it doesnt line up with another passage does NOT mean that it's a contradiction, if you do just a little studying in the passages, you will find a very easy and simple explanation as to why they do not contradict

2. language entropy has taken place since the days those events took place so what was spoken then may not make sense to us completely, so there are some problem passages in the Bible, but by no means does that make it a contradiction

example, there are different spellings or renderings of names in the Bible, like Isaiah in the old testament equals esaias in the new testament (esaias being greek)

I suppose that "virgin" should actually be translated into "non-virgin" then?

"Mark went down to play with his dog. Marcus later watched T.V." Is that a contradiction? NO! Just another spelling...

If it's at the exact same time, then yes, it certainly is a contradiction.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

by the way, herod was the king of judah wile cyrenius (or quirinius) was governor of syria...two COMPLETELY diffrerent countries and two COMPLETELY different positions
(i apologize for the double post)

Cyrenius did not come to power until ten years after the death of Herod....

They teach you well in Bible school

 

[Famine]

by the way, herod was the king of judah wile cyrenius (or quirinius) was governor of syria...

From 6AD-11AD.

On the Roman Calendar, of course.

study the bible for yourself

In which language? What version?

 

[PS]

From 6AD-11AD.

On the Roman Calendar, of course.



In which language? What version?

God, I love that guy!

(dismiss all references to a higher entity as only a remark of excitement)

 

[Delirious]

post by PS, Or for that matter, since he made the entire universe, what does he even need mary for?

why did God even create you? because He wanted to...

and response to tacet, i thought at first you were implying those people were at the same place doing the same job...as for the thought they ruled at the same time...

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1146 is an explanation, i told you...study and you will find the answers...it doesnt take a brain scientist to find them, and they are easy explanations

 

[Anderton Prime]

1. CONTEXT, just because something looks like it doesnt line up with another passage does NOT mean that it's a contradiction, if you do just a little studying in the passages, you will find a very easy and simple explanation as to why they do not contradict

I think you'll find you do much better by providing examples to back up your claims. I learned this early on, and it's an extremely useful skill here at GTP. In fact, if you're going to debate ANYTHING with Famine, it's a downright necessity.

I am a believer, but even I cannot get behind your argument because of your lack of proof. This entire thread you have been making claims and none of them have convinced anyone of anything. You keep telling people to "do research" and they'll find the answers are there, but how about providing the findings of your own research?

Or is this supposed to be proof?

"Mark went down to play with his dog. Marcus later watched T.V." Is that a contradiction? NO! Just another spelling...

Because if it is, you've got a serious problem.

 

[PS]

post by PS, Or for that matter, since he made the entire universe, what does he even need mary for?

why did God even create you? because He wanted to...

and response to tacet, i thought at first you were implying those people were at the same place doing the same job...as for the thought they ruled at the same time...

http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1146 is an explanation, i told you...study and you will find the answers...it doesnt take a brain scientist to find them, and they are easy explanations

Actually I'm pretty sure my mom and dad created me 17 years ago in BC.

Or for that matter, since he made the entire universe, what does he even need mary for?

You still haven't answered my question. And I and not going to allow any more "answers" that are presented in the form of a question (What is "Lying", for 200, Alex), I want a direct response, and no more topic-dodging. Otherwise you're just being a redundant postwhore.

why did God even create you? because He wanted to...

I'm not so sure he did. and..."Because he wanted to..."? Give me a break. You're the one who went on and on about how everything having a purpose, and he just created me "because he wantewd to"??! Heck, he could just destroy the Earth because he wnated to for that matter, and from what I've seen comming from you, noone would ever question that, either!

 

[Famine]

From http://www.bible.org/page.asp?page_id=1146:

"This issue cannot be resolved with certainty"

Brain scientist (neurologist) indeed.


Funny how they're using the Greek version, not one of the English versions or the Hebrew version. Or the Sanskrit.

Even funnier how experts in Ancient Greek cannot agree on the correct translation into English, but you are 100% sure of your English (presumably King James) version of events.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

and response to tacet, i thought at first you were implying those people were at the same place doing the same job...as for the thought they ruled at the same time...

I'm saying that Herod and Cyrenius were NOT in power at the same time, so it would be impossible to be born when they were BOTH in power.

Matthew: "In the days of Herod" (ii, 1).

Luke: "When Cyrenius was governor of Syria" (ii, 1-7).

The two statements are contrary...they cannot both be true, one of them is incorrect etc etc.

Hence contradiction

I've got another 609 for you.

PS it sounds like you have only read Matthew, as there is no mention of a virgin birth in any other gospel.Check that yourself.

Edit: That is PS as in Post Script and not a reference to PublicSecrecy's new name

 

[Anderton Prime]

I pose a question to all GTPers. Have you ever had your mind changed about anything in an online forum? This whole argument is an exercise in futility.

 

[Famine]

I pose a question to all GTPers. Have you ever had your mind changed about anything in an online forum? This whole argument is an exercise in futility.

I'm not convinced of that...

 

[PS]

I've changed my mind a lot of times. I've gone from "foolish", to "non-sense", to "rubbish", to "complete thapochyse". Think about that one for a sec.

 

[Delirious]

maybe God created you for His duty...who knows...but God will destory the heavens and the earth at one point actually...and create a new heaven and new earth (after the 2nd coming of Christ)

as for how do i know God is real...i took one small step of faith into a larger step into my new born life...thats how i know God is real, and if yer looking for evidence, it wont do you any good without faith in God

Hebrews 11:6, But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

faith IS the evidence to our God being in existence...but that wont make sense to you until you have faith, goodbye for the day

edit, 100th post, w00t

 

[sn00pie]

maybe God created you for His duty...who knows...but God will destory the heavens and the earth at one point actually...

Please understand that comments such as this can be highly offensive to non-Christians.

 

[Famine]

faith IS the evidence

Faith is not proof - and proof denies Faith.

Faith in something does not prove its existence. Proof of something existing negates the faith that it does.

If you claim that your Faith proves that God exists, this proof denies the Faith - and without Faith God is nothing. Therefore your Faith proves that God doesn't exist.

Q.E.D.

 

[Sage]

Have you ever had your mind changed about anything in an online forum?

Actually, yes – I've changed my mind about a lot of things based off of the many threads I've followed in this forum.

And if anybody has acceptable proof of a God, I've always said that I'm open to it – But I haven't seen any yet. I'm totally open-minded, even to things on the Internet, as long as there's proof.

 

[Anderton Prime]

Please understand that comments such as this can be highly offensive to non-Christians.

Why? He said "maybe" and "who knows" so what exactly is so offensive about his post? Isn't this a thread about religion? I would think that anyone coming in here should reasonably expect to read some comments he or she won't agree with.

 

[PS]

faith IS the evidence

Faith is not proof - and proof denies Faith.

Faith in something does not prove its existence. Proof of something existing negates the faith that it does.

If you claim that your Faith proves that God exists, this proof denies the Faith - and without Faith God is nothing. Therefore your Faith proves that God doesn't exist.

Q.E.D.

OWNED.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Please understand that comments such as this can be highly offensive to non-Christians.

I totally agree. I always find it to be the Christians that are the most arrogant when it comes to religion...theirs is the "Only true faith"
They never stop for a minute to think about the hundreds of other faiths, or realize that the other religions think that their faith is the "one true faith" as well.

I pose a question to all GTPers. Have you ever had your mind changed about anything in an online forum? This whole argument is an exercise in futility.

Not really. We are questioning religion.
There is a degree of futility when you have a discussion with someone that avoids responding to anything they don't like I do see some of that happening here, so maybe I'll leave it for now

 

[Anderton Prime]

OWNED.

You're being rude.


Also, TacetBlue: Please don't make generalizations about all Christians. I'm not allowed to make generalizations about Americans or any other group of people, so you shouldn't be doing it with Christians. There are MANY Christians who believe what they believe in peace, without trying to shove it down other people's throats.

 

[Tacet_Blue]

You're being rude.


Also, TacetBlue: Please don't make generalizations about all Christians. I'm not allowed to make generalizations about Americans or any other group of people, so you shouldn't be doing it with Christians. There are MANY Christians who believe what they believe in peace, without trying to shove it down other people's throats.

Fair comment:- generalisation retracted

Re worded as: In my life, I've never met a Christian that was willing to accept the validity of any other faith...

 

[Anderton Prime]

Well, most people who are strong believers in ANY religion would be hard-pressed to believe in anything else...in fact, most religions are based on the fact that you believe in it and only it!

But for the record, I am Christian, but not hard-core, and I think the real religious "truth" is a combination of many world religions. I believe Christ was one messiah and that Muhammad (sp?) was another, and that there will be a third.

But I also have room for science in my faith, and this is why I am struggling with trying to find answers to the whole thing. I can't submit myself totally to religion because science negates so much of it, and I cannot submit to science because for some reason I am compelled to believe in God, no matter how absurd the concept may appear to some people.

In other words, I'm a little lost.

 

[blargonator]

faith is the lack of proof. you don't need proof to have faith obviously and some people trust these "crazy" ideas. asking for proof of God is like asking how bumble bees can possibly fly (my info is probably outdated). the Bible is too wierd a source to actually use. it has been interpreted in so many ways and i thought random people wrote in it. i don't really pay much attention in religion class but i remember hearing certain books like lets say mark for an example (simply an example, not a fact) was written by a few guys or something like part of it was the original mark and another section by a fellow mark.

im with Anderton Prime. Also because people have been quoting the bible i might as well toss this one in there.

St. Matthew 16:26~
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
oh yeah, Tacet_BLue sounds like you have a sweet bike <8- P

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Well, most people who are strong believers in ANY religion would be hard-pressed to believe in anything else...in fact, most religions are based on the fact that you believe in it and only it!

Yes, but you can believe in your chosen religion and still accept the validity of other faiths. The Christians that I have met, seem to mock other faiths, as being wrong.

@blargonator: I would love to respond to that, but there are strict rules about off topicness here So I'll PM you.

 

[PS]

faith is the lack of proof. you don't need proof to have faith obviously and some people trust these "crazy" ideas. asking for proof of God is like asking how bumble bees can possibly fly (my info is probably outdated). the Bible is too wierd a source to actually use. it has been interpreted in so many ways and i thought random people wrote in it. i don't really pay much attention in religion class but i remember hearing certain books like lets say mark for an example (simply an example, not a fact) was written by a few guys or something like part of it was the original mark and another section by a fellow mark.

im with Anderton Prime. Also because people have been quoting the bible i might as well toss this one in there.

St. Matthew 16:26~
For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?"
oh yeah, Tacet_BLue sounds like you have a sweet bike <8- P

bumble bee's fly because the rate at which their wings beat overcomes the forces of gravity. It's called "lift". They do this by displacing the air under the wings faster than the air above their wings, which keeps them airborne. Or something like that. And faith is not a lack of scientific evidence, faith is being able to believe in something, have hope for it, or to follow it. Having faith in a basketball team doesn't mean there's a lack of scientific evidence supporting it's existence, it's believing the team will win or succeed.

[edit]look, I managed to stay on topic!

 

[blargonator]

i thought there was no reason that people could come up with because bumble bees weigh X and they should only be able to lift Y or something. having faith in a basketball team means you follow it no questions asked (or atleast blind faith) but that is probably faith that the team is going to win. there is no proof that team 1 will beat team 2. i am probably wrong about the bumble bee thing but i just remember something wierd about them <8- P
p.s. i did not manage to stay on topic 👍


~edit~
after much "bumble bee tuna" thinking i looked into it some more. i googled it 💡 and got this link. it happens to be religous too <8- ) http://www.doesgodexist.org/NovDec99/IsItPossibleForABumbleBeeToFly.html
if you don't feel like reading the religous one here is http://www.wolfson.ox.ac.uk/~ben/zetie1.htm
that is so cool, im going to print it
crap~ this is the 2nd edit, i forgot to put edit the first time.

 

[a6m5]

Yes, but you can believe in your chosen religion and still accept the validity of other faiths. The Christians that I have met, seem to mock other faiths, as being wrong.

You shouldn't mock other faiths and you should respect them, but I don't think you have to accept validity in their faith. Just my opinion.

I already know how some members here doesn't believe in God, because there isn't an proof of his(my belief there) existence. I guess where we differ is when I see our world, I see an "purpose" and you don't. I believe there was an creator and I'd like to believe that was God, but yes, I could be wrong. Let's say there was an creator, who's to say it was the Christian God? I believe in God and Jesus, but just because I believein them doesn't mean I can guarantee my belief is correct.

Again, I'd like to stress that just because you are religious or non-religious, it does not make you better than the other. Believing in Creator should be an personal choice, and if your friend accepts God, respect him for it. If they don't believe in God, you respect him for that too. Just don't be an hater. In our history, people have argued and fought over this, actually, some still do this. It's not worth it!

 

[Tacet_Blue]

Let's say there was an creator, who's to say it was the Christian God?

It's good to hear that you can accept that. ( a Christian with an open mind )

Believing in Creator should be an personal choice, and if your friend accepts God, respect him for it. If they don't believe in God, you respect him for that too. Just don't be an hater. In our history, people have argued and fought over this, actually, some still do this. It's not worth it!

Again I have to agree, I do have respect for other peoples faith. As you say it is a personal choice, and should be kept to oneself.
What annoys people like me is being constantly told (usually by Christians) that I'll burn in hell for enjoying myself in this life.

Personally I see religion as a set of (valid) guidelines and ethics, if you can understand where those morals and ethics are trying to guide you, you don't really need a "God". If you do, then so be it.
I'm not talking to anyone in particular here but if someone choses not to believe in a particular God, then don't try and force the issue, if someone is to believe then they will do it in their own time.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Yes, but you can believe in your chosen religion and still accept the validity of other faiths. The Christians that I have met, seem to mock other faiths, as being wrong.

@blargonator: I would love to respond to that, but there are strict rules about off topicness here So I'll PM you.

I'm a little reluctant to get into this,but here goes. Christians cannot accept deliverance thru another Faith because there isn't any. There is only one name given by which man must be saved. One sacrifice for all. However as a Christian
we are obligated to tell you about it (God would have all men come unto the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ). But then its up to you. It must be mixed with
faith. BTW it is not a Religion it is a Relationship. You can go on believing anything you like. God's not gonna make you accept it .You must humble yourself and invite
him in. Were not saying other faiths are wrong, per se, but rather that God's plan is not their plan. Were just the messenger. Take it up with God if you don't like his message. As for Proof, you dont get saved by Proof, but by Faith.If you are not sure about all this, like everybody else I wasn't either at one time, do two things: Sincerely ask God to show you the truth and he will. And get a Bible and start reading it, particularly the new Testament. Once you get a little spiritual revelation (which is the only way this can be understood) you will see his plan fits perfectly. Then you will have your proof.