Rally Comparison - WRC 5 vs SLRE vs DiRT Rally
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LeGeNd-1
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I'm surprised that Scaff likes the physics of SLRE so much. The only experience I had with Milestone games with a wheel are the 2 V8 Superstars titles on PS3. They were OK as far as simcades go, but nothing special. I'd say it's a step below Grid Autosport in terms of physics. FFB is meaty (as opposed to Codemasters' famous floaty feeling), but again compared to the real sims on PC it's not special. Never tried their WRC offerings, so SLRE must have been quite a jump if it's really that good.
On the other hand, despite being much improved Dirt Rally basically is still based on the Ego engine. No matter how good they tinker with it, it won't be a 100% simulation. Also Codies FFB tends to be the weakest link in their driving games.
Just curious Scaff, what's your opinion on Richard Burns Rally (excusing its age and outdated graphics)?
I'm interested how people who have done rallying in real life would rate DR vs SLRE vs RBR.
On the other hand, despite being much improved Dirt Rally basically is still based on the Ego engine. No matter how good they tinker with it, it won't be a 100% simulation. Also Codies FFB tends to be the weakest link in their driving games.
Just curious Scaff, what's your opinion on Richard Burns Rally (excusing its age and outdated graphics)?
I'm interested how people who have done rallying in real life would rate DR vs SLRE vs RBR.
Scaff
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Milestone have quite rightly had a mix reception in the past, given the habit of throwing stuff out the door as quickly as possible and not bothering to address the issues that resulted.
As such I expected SLRE to be a quick simcade stop over while I waited for DR to come out, and was planning to trade it in for DR. However it seems that having lost the WRC licence and being locked to an annual cycle of releases that goes with it was a good thing.
The physics in it are genuinely very, very good. On a par with DR in terms of gravel and mud and arguably better on tarmac, snow and ice. The feedback is also first rate and does a good job of recreating the physicality required. Stage accuracy in terms of the use of GPS data and road width are also excellent, which makes a big difference.
As such I didn't end up PXing it and still spend as much time on it as I do DR (often more), oh and it has an excellent car list as well.
Its not 100% sim, but its easily the best use of the Ego engine to date and is very strong in terms of mud and gravel, with only the tarmac stuff being a bit of a let down (but by no means appalling). The initially weak FFB has also now been patched and is also much better.
RBR was excellent, have to be honest its been a while since I played it, but it set the benchmark in terms of rally physics at the time (and for a long time after). In an odd, underdog way, SLRE remind me of it a bit.
I've done a couple of rally school days (a long time ago) and DR captures the atmosphere the best, but in terms of stage accuracy and physics I would personally have to give the edge to SLRE. In regard to RBR its been too long to be able to give an honest opinion on it.
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LeGeNd-1
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Cheers, thanks for that comprehensive reply Scaff 👍 I got on the RBR bandwagon late 2 years ago, so it's still fresh in my mind (and hands). After years of playing Gran Turismo's not-rally mode, driving in RBR just felt so right to me. I understand immediately why rally drivers use the techniques that they do, and how to initiate slides just by using weight transfer instead of constantly fighting understeer in GT rallies. It's genuinely amazing. Driving 5 minutes in that game takes more commitment out of you than the whole career mode of GT6. My only complaints would be the poor sense of speed and finnicky wheel rotation settings. In terms of physics, tuning and gameplay, RBR is still the best rally game for me. The weird thing is, their developer (Warthog Games) didn't have a long list of driving games before RBR (just 1 other rally game which is nothing special). How on earth did they pull such a blinder with RBR?
DR and SLRE have been on my list for a while. I've bought DR a while ago actually, but just haven't had the time to give it a go yet. SLRE I'm just waiting to get cheaper after the initial poor reviews, but after seeing your comments I'm tempted to get it soon. Just gotta find the time to play it
Since RBR is still fresh in my mind, it would be interesting to do a straight 3-way comparison between all 3 games. Bad graphics have never been an issue for me, so that factor is completely non-existent. I'm also quite understanding of the limited content in rally games (6 cars and 36 stages in RBR is enough for me). It will just be purely physics + FFB that I'm comparing.
I kinda wish Milestone got absorbed into Codemasters along with Evo Studios. Get their collective strengths together and churn out the definitive rally game once and for all: SLRE content + DR sounds + Driveclub graphics + better physics & FFB on all fronts. Shame Milestone seems to be heading more into 2 wheeled racing at the moment. I also absolutely can't stand their really poor post launch support. Plus overpriced season pass. No matter how good SLRE is I think those factors will always sully my opinion of them.
DR and SLRE have been on my list for a while. I've bought DR a while ago actually, but just haven't had the time to give it a go yet. SLRE I'm just waiting to get cheaper after the initial poor reviews, but after seeing your comments I'm tempted to get it soon. Just gotta find the time to play it
Since RBR is still fresh in my mind, it would be interesting to do a straight 3-way comparison between all 3 games. Bad graphics have never been an issue for me, so that factor is completely non-existent. I'm also quite understanding of the limited content in rally games (6 cars and 36 stages in RBR is enough for me). It will just be purely physics + FFB that I'm comparing.I kinda wish Milestone got absorbed into Codemasters along with Evo Studios. Get their collective strengths together and churn out the definitive rally game once and for all: SLRE content + DR sounds + Driveclub graphics + better physics & FFB on all fronts. Shame Milestone seems to be heading more into 2 wheeled racing at the moment. I also absolutely can't stand their really poor post launch support. Plus overpriced season pass. No matter how good SLRE is I think those factors will always sully my opinion of them.
Scaff
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I think some of that came from Richard Burns himself, as the development was at the same time he got his diagnosis and was no longer able to compete. As such I think a lot of that energy and focus found its way into RBR. Its a very fitting legacy as a result.
It would be very interesting to hear what you think, as the RBR you are playing has had the advantage of quite a bit of development in comparison to the PS2 version I played.DR and SLRE have been on my list for a while. I've bought DR a while ago actually, but just haven't had the time to give it a go yet. SLRE I'm just waiting to get cheaper after the initial poor reviews, but after seeing your comments I'm tempted to get it soon. Just gotta find the time to play it
Milestone seem to have two arms, one that focuses on two wheels and one that focuses on four, as they have always been quite prolific in titles for both (and the Rossi is supposed to be good as well), that said I do believe that they plan at least one or two SLRE titles in the future.
I agree on the season pass, you don't need it and its not worth the money at all, and the idea of a Milestone/Codemasters/Evo team would be amazing.
LeGeNd-1
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Oh wow, I'm not aware of this particular piece of history. If that's the case then that's an even more poignant tribute to the great man 👍
My RBR is vanilla, it's just been patched to v1.02 on PC version. I was tempted to install the big mods for it (like RSRBR or Real Rally) but the complexity and disc space required for such an old game isn't worth it in my opinion. The vanilla content in addition to the steep learning curve is already plenty enough for me. I can't profess to be a rally pro, but I have beaten all the default time records and RB Challenge records so at least I meet the minimum criteria to judge physics (I hope)
That's good news. They seem to like very specific licenses when it comes to their games, so maybe the next one would be Makinen Rally Evo?
Or a GT Legends themed rally game with focus on old cars (60s, 70s and Group Bs) - that would be amazing 
Scaff
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I think its still going to be under the Seb Loeb banner, but more from the old cars would be good, not that SLRE is lacking in this regard in the current game.That's good news. They seem to like very specific licenses when it comes to their games, so maybe the next one would be Makinen Rally Evo?
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It is just unbelievable how so many people state Dirt as a much better sim than SLRE. Just cant figure out why, but it obviously isnt the case. Maybe Dirt is a little bit better in some surfaces, but SLRE is a lot better in asphalt and, because of that, better in general terms.
Why is that? Is it because the much bigger marketing of Dirt? The much better sounds and graphics? Or is it because we think of Collin Mcrae like very good games and we asociate Milestone to ****?
It is a mistery for me. And it is not a case of personal perception. It is obvious that Dirt asphalt physics are just Arcade.
Why is that? Is it because the much bigger marketing of Dirt? The much better sounds and graphics? Or is it because we think of Collin Mcrae like very good games and we asociate Milestone to ****?
It is a mistery for me. And it is not a case of personal perception. It is obvious that Dirt asphalt physics are just Arcade.
LeGeNd-1
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Dirt has the looks and polish of an AAA game, while SLRE looks like a game from last gen. Milestone also lost a lot of good faith from customers because of their poor WRC efforts. The early versions of SLRE was also pretty buggy on PC. Sure Dirt's tarmac physics sucks, but on dirt it masks the deficiencies of the Ego engine and for some people that's good enough. Best thing would be to get both, because neither is perfect.
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They're both imperfect. SLRE is a superior overall package IMHO. But I only play DiRT Rally because of the leagues. And you can't have a league if no one owns the game.
Codemasters has me spittin' mad this weekend. The DiRT Rally site and Racenet have been down since Friday, and F1 2016 is suffering from a fatal tire wear bug. It's funny how Milestone gets slammed while Codemasters gets praise despite their broken products. Milestone is not a great studio but they have produced a few gems over the years.
Overall I think both Studios have some learning to do. Codemasters needs to start patching their buggy products and stop completely ignoring their customers. Milestone needs to figure out how to take advantage of today's hardware.
I don't think either of these companies has a bright future.
Codemasters has me spittin' mad this weekend. The DiRT Rally site and Racenet have been down since Friday, and F1 2016 is suffering from a fatal tire wear bug. It's funny how Milestone gets slammed while Codemasters gets praise despite their broken products. Milestone is not a great studio but they have produced a few gems over the years.
Overall I think both Studios have some learning to do. Codemasters needs to start patching their buggy products and stop completely ignoring their customers. Milestone needs to figure out how to take advantage of today's hardware.
I don't think either of these companies has a bright future.
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- skazz-race
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I think you need to take the longer view on this: Both DR and SLRE are much more Rally sim than anything since 2004 (RBR). There is literally nothing simlike to compare them against except fan made mods for RBR. I'd take either over WRC or not-having-a-rally-game in a heartbeat.
I think DR rightly deserves more praise than SLRE personally. It is way more polished, runs better (60fps on console, and the PC version looks even better and runs silky smooth, unlike SLRE which still isn't great on PC), offers better controller support, actually supports VR and triples and motion platforms, offers online events which actually add value (I love the daily rally concept) and it manages to feel much more visceral.
SLRE has better car selection, more stages, more varied stages, much better career mode, slightly better FFB, but I always find SLRE stages to be subdued and relatively less taxing to complete. I appreciate that Milestone got closer to the layout of real Rally stages, but these are only small parts of longer stages. Codemasters did a very good job of picking exciting layouts in relatively short stages to the benefit of the entire experience.
But at the end of the day, any criticism is meaningless. Neither will ever get another update, so we are stuck with this until sequels. Both are absolutely worth a purchase for anyone who enjoys rally sims.
I think DR rightly deserves more praise than SLRE personally. It is way more polished, runs better (60fps on console, and the PC version looks even better and runs silky smooth, unlike SLRE which still isn't great on PC), offers better controller support, actually supports VR and triples and motion platforms, offers online events which actually add value (I love the daily rally concept) and it manages to feel much more visceral.
SLRE has better car selection, more stages, more varied stages, much better career mode, slightly better FFB, but I always find SLRE stages to be subdued and relatively less taxing to complete. I appreciate that Milestone got closer to the layout of real Rally stages, but these are only small parts of longer stages. Codemasters did a very good job of picking exciting layouts in relatively short stages to the benefit of the entire experience.
But at the end of the day, any criticism is meaningless. Neither will ever get another update, so we are stuck with this until sequels. Both are absolutely worth a purchase for anyone who enjoys rally sims.
Scaff
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I think both of them actually have good futures, CM have made a massive change in direction with Dirt and it's paid off in terms of sales and recognition. F1 2016 despite its issues is also a big step once again in the right direction, despite the challenges that come with having to hit a yearly release cycle.
Milestone will never make a product as polished, they are a much smaller team with a different approach. However they have again shown steps in the right direction, SLRE is a solid title in many areas and Ride 2 and the Rossi title have both down that they are capable of making solid titles that while not at the head of the pack with regard to looks, are still not unacceptable.
100% agree.
I think they both deserve praise for different reasons, Dirt for making the single most polished rally title ever and SLRE for making the rally SIM that actually follows RBR.
Both have had issues away from the lead platform, with SLRE not being optimised well for PC at all and Dirt for being unplayable for weeks with some wheels on PS4.
Now this is entirely subjective but I far prefer the stages from SLRE, I find them generally more challenging, more varied and actually mix surfaces both within the events and in stages much more effectively.
I also find SLRE to use elevation changes much more effectively than Dirt.
What Dirt manages better in terms of stage design for me is weather, it annoys me in SLRE that it's always raining in Wales and Alsace is always wet tarmac for example.
I also think that not only does SLRE edge it in terms of FFB but also in terms of the overall physics model.
They do both seem to be heading towards sequels which is great, but I agree that both should be celebrated after so long when all we had was the poor effort in GT and the old CM offerings.
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I agree. Dirt Rally is a more completed and polished product. But SLRE driving experience (just the stuff that implies driving) is more complete and polished in general terms. Very sad that many people cant differenciate between those two things.
Agree, except in the stages matter. I do find SLRE stages more rewarding to finish. Although they need more work, more concentration and more ability due to their difficulty and aunthenticity.
Other thing is they maintain the same level of quality in every stage because of been scanned. In DR, there are some stages that are very good and others that dont, due to different causes. Greece, Sweden and Wales are very very good. SLRE level. But Germany, Finland and Monaco dont keep up because multiple reasons. Asphalt physics make Monaco and Germany very forgettable (specially the last one). And finland, while been a lot of fun, is too wide.
What do you mean?
Dirt Rally will have a sequel for sure. The game has sold a lot and has the charm of all the community (and has been "almost confirmed" by Paul Coleman many times). But Im not so sure with SLRE. Chief developer said they would lauch SLRE 2 and 3 if the first one has good sales. And that, hasnt been clearly the case.
Dirt Rally is celebrated by all the people, no doubt. But is not the case with SLRE.
Agree, except in the stages matter. I do find SLRE stages more rewarding to finish. Although they need more work, more concentration and more ability due to their difficulty and aunthenticity.
Other thing is they maintain the same level of quality in every stage because of been scanned. In DR, there are some stages that are very good and others that dont, due to different causes. Greece, Sweden and Wales are very very good. SLRE level. But Germany, Finland and Monaco dont keep up because multiple reasons. Asphalt physics make Monaco and Germany very forgettable (specially the last one). And finland, while been a lot of fun, is too wide.
What do you mean?
Dirt Rally will have a sequel for sure. The game has sold a lot and has the charm of all the community (and has been "almost confirmed" by Paul Coleman many times). But Im not so sure with SLRE. Chief developer said they would lauch SLRE 2 and 3 if the first one has good sales. And that, hasnt been clearly the case.
Dirt Rally is celebrated by all the people, no doubt. But is not the case with SLRE.
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I am referring to the way Milestone and Codemasters do business. Codies has been on the verge of disappearing many times in the past. They always seem to pull a rabbit out of the hat to save themselves. This year they managed to do good on DiRT Rally. And F1 2016 is the only F1 game they ever made worth buying. The problem is, F1 2016 has a tire wear bug that causes unfair online competition. It's game-breaking and they said if it is too much work to fix it then they will wait until a future project to address it. That's ridiculous. And DiRT Rally has been down since Friday. Given today is a holiday in the UK I doubt their services will be back up until Tuesday at the earliest. This is an absolutely terrible way to treat your customers. The fact that they don't even have an IT guy on call to fix their servers and websites is completely unprofessional. How long will people put up with this joke of a support policy?
And Milestone has been making sub-par games since day one. SLRE is a solid title physics and content-wise, but how do they expect to have good sales with the pathetic graphics and 30fps? Plus SLRE on the PC, from what I have read, is an absolute disaster. The last decent Milestone title before SLRE was V8 Superstars. If Milestone doesn't learn/invest/take the time to bring their graphical standards up to modern-day console minimums they will have a hard time surviving. Especially in the console world, where we are very demanding.
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While your point about CM is valid, you seem to have forgotten that since SLRE Milestone have made Ride 2 and Valentino Rossi Racing, both of which have upped the game in terms of presentation and graphics.
Are they AAA packages? No, but they are a notable improvement for a team the size and scale of Milestone.
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I agree with pretty much every point you made except for this one, I think DR's career was a far better effort.
DR's career whilst basic had a unique and coherent structure - seasons for each discipline, a difficulty-based league systen with promotion/relegation, engineers to hire, cars to upgrade. It all very much lacked complexity, but it was a fairly novel idea, allowed fluid progression and made you feel like you actually were moving through a rally career of sorts.
SLRE's career on the other hand essentially boiled down to a giant list of unconnected events, not tied together by anything except earning money, buying cars, and the (glacial) reputation system. That the list really was giant didn't change the fact that there was no structure holding it close and meaningfully together - especially when the bulk of the events were single stages, rallies and championships that you could have fully recreated yourself in the 'quick rally' modes.
It wasn't all bad - the actually unique events like the rallycross games and the head-to-heads were great - but to me it was just utterly uninsipring, especially in a world where we're spoilt with dynamic, well-structured careers like Project CARS' and F1 2016's.
So spoilt in fact that I'm loathe to call anything that uses the formula "do event, move on to the next unrelated event, repeat X times" a 'career' now - and Milestone making X=1,000 doesn't change this one bit for me.
(Sorry for the rant, the whole topic of "what a racing game career should be" is a favourite of mine to get peeved over
I love SLRE and Milestone all the same!)
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For me is all the way around.
DR career mode is nonsense for me. The progresion is: 70' cars > 80' cars > Group B > Group A > Kit car FWD >2000 WRC > 2010 WRC. WTF? So you drive group b monsters before group A and FWD low powered cars? Following the timeline of rally history not a good idea for me.
Another thing I dont like is the upgrades. Is very artificial. The cars you are driving are no more similar to the real world ones. Things like that in a sim are unacceptable for me.
Also we have the AI difficulty. The gaps between every AI driver is just ridiculous. 30 seconds or so.
Then, we have the WRX like the final challenge. A championship with no history at all? A rallycross race is the final challenge in a rally game?
I thanks them that they innovated with the career mode. Thanks to that we have the leagues, that I believe is the mayor sucess of Dirt Rally speaking about the modes it offers. But I dont believe they worked the career mode hard enough.
SLRE mode, being more simple, is more direct, offers a better progresion (drafted by the price of every type of car) and a better idea of what you are doing. Is more varied (rallycross, rally, hillclimb altogether but being rallying the most important part) and it allows to drive every type of car.
DR career mode is nonsense for me. The progresion is: 70' cars > 80' cars > Group B > Group A > Kit car FWD >2000 WRC > 2010 WRC. WTF? So you drive group b monsters before group A and FWD low powered cars? Following the timeline of rally history not a good idea for me.
Another thing I dont like is the upgrades. Is very artificial. The cars you are driving are no more similar to the real world ones. Things like that in a sim are unacceptable for me.
Also we have the AI difficulty. The gaps between every AI driver is just ridiculous. 30 seconds or so.
Then, we have the WRX like the final challenge. A championship with no history at all? A rallycross race is the final challenge in a rally game?
I thanks them that they innovated with the career mode. Thanks to that we have the leagues, that I believe is the mayor sucess of Dirt Rally speaking about the modes it offers. But I dont believe they worked the career mode hard enough.
SLRE mode, being more simple, is more direct, offers a better progresion (drafted by the price of every type of car) and a better idea of what you are doing. Is more varied (rallycross, rally, hillclimb altogether but being rallying the most important part) and it allows to drive every type of car.
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Have a few questions about SLRE (I already own Dirt Rally).
Can you remap all the buttons?
Can I use a TH8a in seqential mode connected to USB as a handbrake?
Is there a good dash cam view? The one in Dirt Rally or Assetto Corsa are good examples. I don't like full cockpit and hood cam does not feel natural.
Can you remap all the buttons?
Can I use a TH8a in seqential mode connected to USB as a handbrake?
Is there a good dash cam view? The one in Dirt Rally or Assetto Corsa are good examples. I don't like full cockpit and hood cam does not feel natural.
Scaff
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That's a yes on all three.
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Cool thanks - I should pick it up then. It is only $13 new on Amazon.
I know originally on ps4 you could not use more than one input device. I have a setup with a cheap DIY sequential shifter and my TH8a as the handbrake and I didn't want to bother if I could not use it.
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Scaff
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Are you looking to connect the TH8A directly to your PS4, as that I'm not 100% about, I have mine through my T300 base.
That's my bad I missed the USB bit of your post.
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Yes, I connect the TH8a directly through USB.
I can connect it to the base, but doesn't that make it L1/R1? which would be the same as the paddles? I think it used to work that way, but I have not had it connected to the base for over a year I do not remember.
I have my sequential stick connected to the static paddle shifter cables which are also L1/R1.
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