Rally Comparison - WRC 5 vs SLRE vs DiRT Rally

[bogani]

You have to remember that only around a few dozen people in the world can be that aggressive, on those stages in reality.

That's like saying people shouldn't be able to put in blazing laps with the ferrari F1 car in Assetto Corsa, because only a handful of people can do that IRL.

Games lets you be even more aggressive if you choose to as there is no risk involved.

 

[Scaff]

That's like saying people shouldn't be able to put in blazing laps with the ferrari F1 car in Assetto Corsa, because only a handful of people can do that IRL.

Games lets you be even more aggressive if you choose to as there is no risk involved.

No, its like saying that such a simplistic comparison is not a good measure of the accuracy of a physics engine of a title.

I can drive just as aggressively in WRC6 as real footage, does that put the physics in WRC6 on a par with SLRE or Dirt?

 

[bogani]

No, its like saying that such a simplistic comparison is not a good measure of the accuracy of a physics engine of a title.

I can drive just as aggressively in WRC6 as real footage, does that put the physics in WRC6 on a par with SLRE or Dirt?

Oh c'mon man. You are intenionally missing my point. But ok then.

Yes you can drive just as aggressively in WRC 6, but I won't look anything like in the video. It is intentionally aiming for a casual experience. DR and SLRE are aiming for authenticity.

And the the real life driver argument you made is still an extremely bad argument.

 

[SlimCharles]

I dont get the point of the discussion. If it is about the aggressivity of how you drive the car, you need more aggressivity in SLRE due to the higher feeling of weight it has compared to Dirt.

About the comparison with real fotage, watch a video of rally mods in Assetto Corsa. The weight shifting is even "slower" and very close to the real fotage (I cant find differences).

 

[Scaff]

Oh c'mon man. You are intenionally missing my point. But ok then.

Yes you can drive just as aggressively in WRC 6, but I won't look anything like in the video. It is intentionally aiming for a casual experience. DR and SLRE are aiming for authenticity.

And the the real life driver argument you made is still an extremely bad argument.

Well it could be your missing mine.

A comparison of the nature you made is pretty much just as bad an example, or are suggesting it's not possible to drive aggressively in SLRE.

 

[bogani]

Well it could be your missing mine.

A comparison of the nature you made is pretty much just as bad an example, or are suggesting it's not possible to drive aggressively in SLRE.

If you wanted to say that you can't judge physics on visuals alone, you should have said exactly that. Instead you insinuated that we mortals can't drive our virtual cars as aggressive as the IRL elite drivers as we'te not good enough.

Those two things are completely different, yet you state that you meant the former by saying the latter.

Obviously we can't judge physics by only the look of things, but you can't say it's irrelevant. If something looks completely off in a replay, there is a big risk it will feel off as well when driving and vice versa.

I dont get the point of the discussion. If it is about the aggressivity of how you drive the car, you need more aggressivity in SLRE due to the higher feeling of weight it has compared to Dirt.

About the comparison with real fotage, watch a video of rally mods in Assetto Corsa. The weight shifting is even "slower" and very close to the real fotage (I cant find differences).

I don't agree that the weight shifting looks "slower" in AC compared to SLRE.

In my opinion the WRC mod cars in AC feels like reskinned GT3 cars. They're not as agile as I want them. And I'm talking tarmac here, AC isn't designed for loose surfaces and it's pretty obvious when trying the "gravel' mods in AC. It's not very good.

Still. I'm not stating this as a fact. It's just a personal opinion.

 

[Scaff]

If you wanted to say that you can't judge physics on visuals alone, you should have said exactly that. Instead you insinuated that we mortals can't drive our virtual cars as aggressive as the IRL elite drivers as we'te not good enough.

Those two things are completely different, yet you state that you meant the former by saying the latter.

Obviously we can't judge physics by only the look of things, but you can't say it's irrelevant. If something looks completely off in a replay, there is a big risk it will feel off as well when driving and vice versa.

Good job I didn't say that then.

The point is that in reality not everyone can drive like that, and the same is true of Sims. Not everyone can drive like that. More than in reality? Yes, but not everyone.

Now please answer my question.

Oh and please don't double post.

 

[bogani]

Good job I didn't say that then.

The point is that in reality not everyone can drive like that, and the same is true of Sims. Not everyone can drive like that. More than in reality? Yes, but not everyone.

Now please answer my question.

Oh and please don't double post.

What question and where did I double post?

Lovely that the moderator is the one starting to sound rude when there is a normal discussion going on.

Edit: By double posting I assume you mean posting answers in two separate post right after each other? If so, yes I'll try to avoid that, sorry.

 

[Scaff]

What question and where did I double post?

This one:

" are suggesting it's not possible to drive aggressively in SLRE."

Lovely that the moderator is the one starting to sound rude when there is a normal discussion going on.

Nope. You seem to be mistaking disagreeing with you for rude.

Edit: By double posting I assume you mean posting answers in two separate post right after each other? If so, yes I'll try to avoid that, sorry.

That is what we mean (on the site) by double posting. I will merge your posts in this case, but please try not to do it again.

 

[bogani]

This one:

" are suggesting it's not possible to drive aggressively in SLRE."



Nope. You seem to be mistaking disagreeing with you for rude.


That is what we mean (on the site) by double posting. I will merge your posts in this case, but please try not to do it again.

I do have issues with quoting correctly on my phone. It's easier on the PC. Sorry about that.

On the question. I'm suggesting I as in me can't drive as aggresively in SLRE as I can in DR or as various looks at IRL onboards/replays suggests. There is much more tip toing required in SLRE going through a stage.
A quick search of video on Youtube I find almost all footage of SLRE is basically the same. Pretty straight forward driving, not throwing about the cars very much.

Please point me in the right direction if you have any replays that tells another story though. I haven't gone through them all obviously.

On DR. I'm fully aware that you can push the cars to a certain point and they behave in a realistic manner, but once you push further than that you can exploit the flaws in the physics model. You can basically overdrive the cars and get away with things that wouldn't be possible.

The bottom line is we have a new Dirt coming up soon. Hopefully they have corrected many of the quirks. Reports say aero does not send you to the moon anymore and braking distances are improved upon. The atrocious tarmac handling is said to be miles better this time. If the "your stage" feature is truly working we could really end up with an epic game.

On SLRE I guess we're stuck with that. I doubt Milestone will release a sequel as it didn't sell. It does a few things well but as a complete product it's subpar.

Another question for you Scaff. You talked about great tactile feedback in DR. Are you on PC using Simvibe?

 

[Scaff]

I do have issues with quoting correctly on my phone. It's easier on the PC. Sorry about that.

No problem.

On the question. I'm suggesting I as in me can't drive as aggresively in SLRE as I can in DR or as various looks at IRL onboards/replays suggests. There is much more tip toing required in SLRE going through a stage.
A quick search of video on Youtube I find almost all footage of SLRE is basically the same. Pretty straight forward driving, not throwing about the cars very much.

Please point me in the right direction if you have any replays that tells another story though. I haven't gone through them all obviously.

I'm neither the fastest or more aggresive driver, but I certainly don't find I need to top toe through stages in SLRE.

This is the highlights from three stages in SLRE with a WRC Polo.

On DR. I'm fully aware that you can push the cars to a certain point and they behave in a realistic manner, but once you push further than that you can exploit the flaws in the physics model. You can basically overdrive the cars and get away with things that wouldn't be possible.

Indeed, which I don't find to be the case with SLRE, hence the reason why you take more care when you are at the limit in SLRE than in DR.

The bottom line is we have a new Dirt coming up soon. Hopefully they have corrected many of the quirks. Reports say aero does not send you to the moon anymore and braking distances are improved upon. The atrocious tarmac handling is said to be miles better this time. If the "your stage" feature is truly working we could really end up with an epic game.

Your stage looks excellent and I'm looking forward to Dirt 4 (already have it on pre-order), in regard to braking distances what do you mean by 'improved' as currently on a lot of surfaces they are arguably far too short.

On SLRE I guess we're stuck with that. I doubt Milestone will release a sequel as it didn't sell. It does a few things well but as a complete product it's subpar.

Well we are getting 'Gravel' from Milestone (which I also have on pre-order), but it is a shame we are unlikely to see a follow on to SLRE.

That said I can't agree that its sub-par as a package. Yes the visuals and sound are below DR, but for me physics, cars range and stages are all better (and in some cases a lot better) than DR. As an overall package I personally would put SLRE slightly ahead, but it does depend on what an individual prioritizes.

Another question for you Scaff. You talked about great tactile feedback in DR. Are you on PC using Simvibe?

I run a PS4 Pro with a Reckhorn 2.10 shaker being driven from my AV receiver, works excellently.

 

[bogani]

With improved braking distances I meant longer. The testers have said braking is trickier in D4. A welcome addition as they are as you say, too short in DR.

When SLRE launched the optimization was extremely poor. The controls didn't work for many people. That and Milestones overall reputation kinda scared people off. Releasing a demo in that state was like shooting yourself in the foot.

While the stage layout is nice it's the visual representation that kills it for me. In many ways I get the feeling it's mods made by the community rather than official content.

Oh well. It's all different opinions.

Let's see what D4 can bring to the table

 

[SlimCharles]

Conversation started in the AC forums

You really didn't read my reply either, I've said before that codemasters did a mistake in making the tyre model more grippy.

I did read your post and you didn't read mine (again). You said they made the tyre model more grippy on Hillclimb and I told you that the game was and is terrible on tarmac. Before or after the patch. On hillclimb or in any other discipline.

It affects lateral grip, but hasn't really to see with physics.

Road/tarmac feeling / sensation is FFB.
FFB isn't physics.

Let's start again, Im gonna try to be clear:

-FFB is trash, doesn't comunicate how is the car and doesn't perform the most important thing FFB has to do: countersteering.
-Tyre model: trash. Paul coleman admitted that they didn't do a god job. The cars show no progression between straight driving and oversteer. Evidence shows that:

-Physics: I understand physics in a game as how the weight of the car reacts. In Dirt Rally feels noticeble lighter than SLRE (you can change direction more quickly), and much more than AC. RBR (Original)<Dirt<SLRE<AC.

Everyone that played DR and SLRE says yes, sensation on tarmac is better in SLRE, but on the other surfaces DR is better...

Once again, that is FFB, and FFB aren't physics.

Then there's other problem,SLRE has input lag problems with the wheel, improved in last update, but there's still a bit, then the framework, it's improved but still not stable 30fps....and 30fps makes driving already less precise than 60 fps.

On controller you feel what you see in the replays of SLRE....lack of weight... Just "floaty" .
At least playing with a wheel you have more weight sensation... And that is FFB again.

So for me,dirt rally is a better sim in global terms, solid framework at 60fps,good physics,good sensations,good online features and enough offline to enjoy quite some hours.

Hallelujah. You finally accept or atleast reconize that SLRE might be better on tarmac.

You haven't said why DR is better on other surfaces. Fps, online and offline features are irrelevant. About input lag, I dont feel it and I havent ever see anybody complaining about it.

I will not get very deep in the other surfaces. While on tarmac I have a benchmark to compare like Assetto, rally simulators doesn't exist. I can say some things, for example: ice shows to be much more realistic in Dirt as the cars are more slippery and closer to what I see on television. Im willing to discuss it, but I dont have strong arguments (I say SLRE is a better simulator overall because the weight physics and tarmac tyre model are better).

I do can say that the rest of the surfaces feel more or less the same in both games.

Last for all, none single game match real life car behaviours,tyre behaviour etc.
Every dev try to simulate on theories and calculations and personal feeling.

And if you compare a gif, at least look that the car from RL is an hillclimb audi, because it has other specs than the normal audi rally car.
In the game you have E-brake... But the real car don't have.

See...nothing is perfect, and nobody is perfect.

SLRE fitted more what you expect from RL rally? Good for you, seriously, enjoy it!
For the rest, discussion closed, because every game has flaws in his physics.

If i want real simulation,i take my car and go to my local race track, or i go to a go-kart track with some friends and have a "real racing simulation"

Hopefully now you've seen my opinion and what I'm trying to explain you and respect it

I didn't say any sim is perfect.

I used that gif because there isn't gifs of the S1 E2 doing donuts.

https://media.giphy.com/media/adqIyKl2JfNAI/giphy.gif

 

[doblocruiser]

After playing the 2 finally with a wheel I can say that SLRE is better out of the box than DR on tarmac. However when you tweak the wheelsettings for Dirt Rally the handling becomes much better but you never can get rid completely of the "loose" backend and "floaty" feeling on tarmac. The cars feel more planted in SLRE and I prefer its overall handling model over Dirt's.

I only ran Pikes Peak stages for comparision and both match close in terms of times. DR adds more variety due to different lighting and trackconditions. There also seem some crucial differences between the tracks. I like that DR has cut up the track in 3 shorter versions while SLRE adds 4 versions going from short, half-long, long, full.

• SLRE: Great handling, sounds and visuals less impressive, less track variety
• DR: Good handling, sounds and visuals impressive, more track variety

SLRE lets you run any car on Pikes Peak while DR does not. Also the cars in SLRE have the edge over DR. Hmmm I think it is very good to have both titles because both offer a lot of fun.

 

[doblocruiser]

I'll add a couple of comparison shots between SLRE and DR