Rally Comparison - WRC 5 vs SLRE vs DiRT Rally

[Scaff]

Yes, I connect the TH8a directly through USB.

I can connect it to the base, but doesn't that make it L1/R1? which would be the same as the paddles? I think it used to work that way, but I have not had it connected to the base for over a year I do not remember.
I have my sequential stick connected to the static paddle shifter cables which are also L1/R1.

I'm not 100% sure, I leave mine in h pattern and just assign 4th gear to handbrake.

 

[Spitfire77]

I'm not 100% sure, I leave mine in h pattern and just assign 4th gear to handbrake.

Cool thanks for the info - I will try and find the info. I just found the last patch notes and it looks like it should work.



Milestone announces the release of patch 2 PlayStation®4.

Changelog includes the resolution of the following issues:

• Fix of steering wheel for input lag and linearity
• Fix shaders for more stable framerate
• Fix of device Thursmaster TH8A support (multi USB) ----** this is what I want to do. Figure that is what Multi USB means.

Edit - I found a post from Skazz - looks like he had it working. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...xb1-pc-milestone.321281/page-34#post-11241111

 

[Wolfe]

@Spitfire77 -- FYI, visibility with the dash cam can suffer a little at times because the windshield damage texture resembles smeared webbing from that distance and the wipers don't come on to wipe away splatters of mud and stuff.

 

[Scaff]

Cool thanks for the info - I will try and find the info. I just found the last patch notes and it looks like it should work.



Milestone announces the release of patch 2 PlayStation®4.

Changelog includes the resolution of the following issues:

• Fix of steering wheel for input lag and linearity
• Fix shaders for more stable framerate
• Fix of device Thursmaster TH8A support (multi USB) ----** this is what I want to do. Figure that is what Multi USB means.

Edit - I found a post from Skazz - looks like he had it working. https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/sébastien-loeb-rally-evo-ps4-xb1-pc-milestone.321281/page-34#post-11241111

I've just checked it myself and can confirm that it works, will upload a video of the different in car views for you as well.

 

[Spitfire77]

I've just checked it myself and can confirm that it works, will upload a video of the different in car views for you as well.

Cool thank you! and no need for the video I already found a few.

 

[Scaff]

Cool thank you! and no need for the video I already found a few.

No problem.

It's a rough looking title, with audio that's far from great, but for my money it's got better physics and better stages than DR (and I love DR), with a great car range and loads to do in single player. Online is however now pretty dead, but I still find plenty to do with it just because the stages are so challenging.

 

[skazz]

To confirm, the T500 doesn't have a shifter plug, so you have to use the TH8A as separate USB device. Once the patch added support I ran the TH8A as a separate USB device, in H pattern mode with 4th as handbrake.

Reading that old post is interesting. Those horrible water spray effects are identical on PC and console.

 

[Spitfire77]

Playing SLRE at first I thought it was terrible..
After setting the T300 wheel rotation to 1080deg on the wheel and lowering the FFB to 40-45 and vibration to 30 I am starting to enjoy it.

Man the engine sounds though... Rough at best.

The driving feeling and rally roads are fun though so as my brain adjusts to the game vs dirt rally I am finding it good fun.

 

[Scaff]

Playing SLRE at first I thought it was terrible..
After setting the T300 wheel rotation to 1080deg on the wheel and lowering the FFB to 40-45 and vibration to 30 I am starting to enjoy it.

Man the engine sounds though... Rough at best.

The driving feeling and rally roads are fun though so as my brain adjusts to the game vs dirt rally I am finding it good fun.

Oh it's rough on audio and the visuals (backfire sounds are the worse), however for me the stages and the physics more than make up for that.

The first time you brake hard and the car starts moving around, you ease off the brake a little, settle the car and then brake harder again just highlight the kind of areas that Dirt Rally just didn't quite nail in the physics.

 

[MrCrynox]

Hey Scaff thanks for the write up, I bought SLRE on the back of it for less than a tenner on eBay and whilst I'm only playing the start of the career debut stages, I'm having a blast ! The physics are great. It gives a good feeling and although Dirt looks better the graphics seem fine to me. I hope they go on to make a follow up.

 

[bogani]

I did give SLRE a quick go a few months ago but I just couldn't keep playing it. Such an unpolished game.

- Horrible graphics
- The sounds are a joke
- Bad controller support
- stages are well made but feels generic
- RWD cars behave NOTHING like RWD cars

I've had Dirt Rally since day one and still love it to bits. The sounds alone are worth the full price.

To me, this is the first game that actually captures the feeling of a RWD car on proper competition tires that dig in to the surface. Not perfectly, but very close.

Nothing is perfect, never is.

- Aero behaviour
- Lack of content
- FFB
- Finland

When it comes to FFB it's ok on gravel, but when on tarmac things get very strange. Imo it's the FFB that is the problem with tarmac in DR. I have no real issue grip wise, but the roadfeel through the FFB is all but convincing.

Finland feels like it has one foot in the older Dirt games. Jumps and crests are exagerated. Add the faulty aero modeling and we have cars more in the air than the ground.

With aero fixed, refinements to suspension and tires, Dirt 4's future is looking bright. If Your Stage works well it could truly be epic!

 

[SlimCharles]

For me the problem is physics and ffb. There is a very simple example that proves the car has too much grip on tarmac: drifting in Dirt rally on tarmac is impossible.

I dont understand "generic" stages.

I agree Dirt gets better RWD cars on slippery surfaces.

edit: typos

 

[SlimCharles]

I made this video that is pretty clarifying about tarmac physics



Dirt rally seems to suffer of excess of grip when going on straight line. Coleman said they are playing with front grip in Dirt 4 in order to get the arcade physics. Maybe they find the solution for that excess of grip for the sim mode, in general, but in particular with the front end. In the donuts and understeer test is pretty clear.

PD: Sorry for double post

 

[Scaff]

I did give SLRE a quick go a few months ago but I just couldn't keep playing it. Such an unpolished game.

- Horrible graphics
- The sounds are a joke
- Bad controller support
- stages are well made but feels generic
- RWD cars behave NOTHING like RWD cars

I've had Dirt Rally since day one and still love it to bits. The sounds alone are worth the full price.

To me, this is the first game that actually captures the feeling of a RWD car on proper competition tires that dig in to the surface. Not perfectly, but very close.

Nothing is perfect, never is.

- Aero behaviour
- Lack of content
- FFB
- Finland

When it comes to FFB it's ok on gravel, but when on tarmac things get very strange. Imo it's the FFB that is the problem with tarmac in DR. I have no real issue grip wise, but the roadfeel through the FFB is all but convincing.

Finland feels like it has one foot in the older Dirt games. Jumps and crests are exagerated. Add the faulty aero modeling and we have cars more in the air than the ground.

With aero fixed, refinements to suspension and tires, Dirt 4's future is looking bright. If Your Stage works well it could truly be epic!

I'm not sure why you would take issue with the stages on SLRE they use the actual GPS data from the real stages, so you would in essence be complaining that the real things are generic.

Can't agree with regards to the RWD physics either, it's not perfect, but it's nothing like RWD cars should be.

 

[SlimCharles]

RWD cars are not badly designed (I had to make a set up for the GT86 because it was too much tail happy), but I think they need to loose more easily the tail in the way out of corners. In tarmac is very difficult to loose the back just by acceleration.

In Dirt Rally is much more noticeable. With the 037 you just simply play with the throttle to get the car in the angle you want.

 

[bogani]

I'm not sure why you would take issue with the stages on SLRE they use the actual GPS data from the real stages, so you would in essence be complaining that the real things are generic.

Can't agree with regards to the RWD physics either, it's not perfect, but it's nothing like RWD cars should be.

I have no problem with the stage layouts, I know they are "real". It's the atmosphere of the stages, the visuals that has a generic feel to them.

Please elaborate why the RWD cars in DR is "nothing like RWD cars should be".
Do you find the RWD cars in SLRE realistic?

 

[Scaff]

I have no problem with the stage layouts, I know they are "real". It's the atmosphere of the stages, the visuals that has a generic feel to them.

It that regard I would agree, the layout of the stage, how it flows and its width however are, for me, more important.

Please elaborate why the RWD cars in DR is "nothing like RWD cars should be".

I didn't say that.

Do you find the RWD cars in SLRE realistic?

I don't find them to be "nothing like RWD cars should be", they are close enough to be more that drivable. Keep in mind that what you are saying is that RWD cars in SLRE have no one realistic characteristic about them, that is simply not true.

 

[bogani]

Can't agree with regards to the RWD physics either, it's not perfect, but it's nothing like RWD cars should be.

Sorry mate, didn't quite understand this properly then.

 

[SlimCharles]

I have no problem with the stage layouts, I know they are "real". It's the atmosphere of the stages, the visuals that has a generic feel to them.

You are absolutely on point. While on Dirt Rally every scenary feels different, in SLRE they used always the same type of pine tree. And sometimes, they dont feel nothing like the real scenary (Finland).

Please elaborate why the RWD cars in DR is "nothing like RWD cars should be".
Do you find the RWD cars in SLRE realistic?

Why you don't feel them realistic?

 

[bogani]

What I dislike about DR though is the FFB. The self centering seems to come only from the camber of the road, not by caster effect that should always want to point the wheels straight. It feels OK on loose surfaces but when you're on a flat surface like tarmac it get's very numb and dead.

 

[Scaff]

What I dislike about DR though is the FFB. The self centering seems to come only from the camber of the road, not by caster effect that should always want to point the wheels straight. It feels OK on loose surfaces but when you're on a flat surface like tarmac it get's very numb and dead.

I would agree with that, however I'm fortunate in that the tactile feeling that DR provides is excellent, so it makes up for the poor feedback on tarmac. Tactile actually allows you to feel the shift from clean tarmac, partial ice and full ice on the Monte for example.

Interestingly enough SLRE is almost the exact opposite.

 

[recar deeps]

I would agree with that, however I'm fortunate in that the tactile feeling that DR provides is excellent, so it makes up for the poor feedback on tarmac. Tactile actually allows you to feel the shift from clean tarmac, partial ice and full ice on the Monte for example.

Interestingly enough SLRE is almost the exact opposite.

I finally rented SLRE and notice the same thing. I only have 1 buttkicker and I eventually just shut it off because the was no feeling from it at all, except at the end when I finished the stage. For the most part it's a pretty good game, locations are great and the physics underneath it all are pretty good.

I put DR in, turned BK back on and there is just no comparison. With the sound of the gravel hitting the floor pan, feeling almost every bump and the car audio is fantastic. I have say DR has ruined a lot of other games with it's awesomeness.

 

[Scaff]

I finally rented SLRE and notice the same thing. I only have 1 buttkicker and I eventually just shut it off because the was no feeling from it at all, except at the end when I finished the stage. For the most part it's a pretty good game, locations are great and the physics underneath it all are pretty good.

I put DR in, turned BK back on and there is just no comparison. With the sound of the gravel hitting the floor pan, feeling almost every bump and the car audio is fantastic. I have say DR has ruined a lot of other games with it's awesomeness.

Quite agree, PCars and Dirt Rally are the two stand out sims for me in terms of tactile (with AC not far behind).

 

[bogani]

I finally rented SLRE and notice the same thing. I only have 1 buttkicker and I eventually just shut it off because the was no feeling from it at all, except at the end when I finished the stage. For the most part it's a pretty good game, locations are great and the physics underneath it all are pretty good.

I put DR in, turned BK back on and there is just no comparison. With the sound of the gravel hitting the floor pan, feeling almost every bump and the car audio is fantastic. I have say DR has ruined a lot of other games with it's awesomeness.

I actually bought the SimVibe software as I have one kicker underneath my seat but I found it a tremendous pain in the butt(pun intended) to set up the software properly. I kinda gave up on it.

Is there a profile available? What settings do you use in the software?

 

[recar deeps]

I actually bought the SimVibe software as I have one kicker underneath my seat but I found it a tremendous pain in the butt(pun intended) to set up the software properly. I kinda gave up on it.

Is there a profile available? What settings do you use in the software?

I'm on a Xbox one so I just have it hooked up to a splitter before it goes into a cheap surround system. I don't use any software for it.

 

[SlimCharles]

After I tried both games switching more frequently between them, I have a clearer view about the physics discuss.

- Physics: SLRE is noticeable better. The cars have more feeling of wheight. In Dirt Rally is easier to change direction, the cars feel noticeable lighter (in RBR they feel even lighter). Compared to a benchmark like Assetto, definetly SLRE is is the closest of the two in terms of weight shifting.

This is also perceptible when using handbrake. In SLRE it feels like it should be in reality: the rear tyres block and the rear of the car slips through the surface. In Dirt there is a sensation like the rear is being pushed in the direction you want; like there is a guy outside the car pushing with its hands the side of the car to rotate it.

- Tyre model: this is a different discussion. Tyre model on ice is a very clear win for Dirt; the car feels much more slippery and very close to what I see on television: you see the real cars trying to perform the straightest line possible; like in Dirt Rally. SLRE feels much more forgiving in this surface, feeling like it was snow with a little bit less grip.

On tarmac there is no discussion. Dirt Rally is objectively trash, one of the worst results on tarmac I've ever seen (a youtuber that recently tried Dirt 4 said Dirt 3 felt even better than Dirt Rally). SLRE is very good indeed, compared with PCars, feels closer to AC: you have to drive more finely, the driving line is clearer. In PCars you feel more that sensation that you throw the car into the corners instead of driving through them.

In the rest of the surfaces, I believe they are more or less on par. I can't right now find noticeable differences between them. Both feel great for sure.

- Force Feedback: tarmac doesn't need discussion, does it...?. In the slippery surfaces thought, I feel what @bogani said. The wheel sometimes do opposite force (when turning the steering at high angles). In doesn't feel completely unnatural (on tarmac does), but in SLRE there is no such effect never. Is it realistic to have it or not to have it? I don't know, but it certainly feels a bit weird.

Maybe that is related with this: when oversteering on slippery surfaces, SLRE feels just as good as Dirt with RWD cars (although IMO dirt rally has a more realistic rear tyres grip) and much better with FWD cars (some of the pro 2WD class cars on SLRE remind me a lot to the 500 abarth on Assetto Corsa).

There are another details about force feedback: in Dirt Rally you feel better and faster the disconnection of the tyres with the road when jumping, the irregularities feel better on Dirt rally...

Conclusion: overall, SLRE has a noticeable better feeling in general.

edits: typos

 

[bogani]

While I agree that the cars have a more weighty feel to them in SLRE I think the effect is a bit exagerated. If you change direction too fast in DR I feel that you change direction too slow in SLRE. When reaching higher speeds in SLRE the weight starts to rock like a boat back and forth, if you get what I mean. I also get a strange sensation when watching replays of SLRE. You can see the weight shift but it almost looks like it's happening in slow motion?

I'm not sure if it's something wrong on my end, but when I pull the HB in SLRE there is a huge delay until it locks the rear wheels. Makes it pretty hard to use.

I still agree that SLRE does feature a better tarmac experience, but I'm no fan of SLRE on the loose stuff. To me it feels like you are sliding around on top of the surface rather than having treaded tires that actually bite the surface.

FFB feels OK on loose surfaces in DR but terrible on tarmac. Seems to me like the self centering forces only comes from road camber, not caster effect. This is probably the reason why the FFB feels numb and dead on flat tarmac.

FFB indeed works better in SLRE. The best example is to take a WRC car for a spin on the asphalt part of the practice area. The FFB reacts like it should when pulling the HB, instantly going opposite lock.

Overall I prefer DR, which compared to SLRE is an extremely polished product. There is potential in SLRE, but I just can't stand the uneven graphics and horrible atrocious sounds.

This is just my opinion though ofc. Everyone's got the right to make their own minds up

 

[SlimCharles]

When reaching higher speeds in SLRE the weight starts to rock like a boat back and forth, if you get what I mean.

You mean that at high speeds the car stays extremely stable?

I also get a strange sensation when watching replays of SLRE. You can see the weight shift but it almost looks like it's happening in slow motion?

It gets slower on reality I think.



This maybe could prove my theory: SLRE weight shifting is good and better than Dirt, but not good enough and bellow Assetto Corsa.

I'm not sure if it's something wrong on my end, but when I pull the HB in SLRE there is a huge delay until it locks the rear wheels. Makes it pretty hard to use.

That's Milestone fault for setting the handbrake with very low power as predefined so when you pull the handbrake, instead of blocking the tyres quickly, it begins to brake with no blocking and a moment later the tyres begin to block. To solve that go to set up and set the handbrake power to max.

 

[bogani]

Looking at that video of Greece, there is no chance in hell I can be as aggressive with the cars in SLRE. Reminds me more of a DR replay of Greece to be honest.

I'll try the HB tips. Thanks.

 

[Scaff]

Looking at that video of Greece, there is no chance in hell I can be as aggressive with the cars in SLRE. Reminds me more of a DR replay of Greece to be honest.

You have to remember that only around a few dozen people in the world can be that aggressive, on those stages in reality.