Random Car Facts

[Cano]

"I4/FWD".

I'll join the bandwagon. Damn.

 

[Tornado]

That is true. I can't deny that.

People like autos for drag racing simply because it is very difficult if not impossible to outshift them. A benefit to installing a manual valve body if it didnt come with one is you can let your rpms ride out like a manual without it shifting on you. Then you can shift it up or down on a single drive column without a clutch allowing the best possible shift points, and no letting off the throttle interference to slow you down. They may be power robbers but aftermarket can take care of that. Hence the popularity.

No, it's nothing of sort really.


For a few reasons:

1) Missed shifts, you won't loose a race missing a shift with a auto.

2) Auto's are easier on parts. The "hit" is softened by the transmission. Shifts are less brutal, drivetrain parts last longer.

Plus it makes it easier to keep the boost up in turbocharged cars.

 

[GranTurismo916]

Mostly hearsay. Everyone raves about Bimmers - their sound, their handling, and so forth. Plus, it strikes a decent balance between "big boaty luxury sedan designed to isolate its occupants from the road" and "I4/FWD".

Plus, it strikes a decent balance between "big boaty luxury sedan designed to isolate its occupants from the road" and "I4/FWD".

"big boaty luxury sedan designed to isolate its occupants from the road" and "I4/FWD"

from the road" and "I4/FWD"

and "I4/FWD"

"I4/FWD"

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

Research!! Lots to learn on the internet =P

I guess I'll do that, there's not much else for me to do right now.

When Motor Trend had the 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 LS Edition set a lap time on Laguna Seca, it didn't just beat the BMW M3's lap time, but the 2010 Shelby GT500's and Audi R8 4.2 FSI V8's as well.


Also, I4-FWD BMW 3 series?! What, I thought the 3 series was RWD and had an Inline-6 engine.

 

[Dennisch]

Also, I4-FWD BMW 3 series?! What, I thought the 3 series was RWD and had an Inline-6 engine.

3 series are available with an I4. The first M3 was a 2.3 4 cylinder.

 

[Cano]

3 series are available with an I4. The first M3 was a 2.3 4 cylinder.

Indeed. The shocking part was the FWD bit. I really laughed.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Well technically, you can have your 3-er with its front-wheels driven... but only at the same time as the rears. xDrive

 

[Slash]

I guess I'll do that, there's not much else for me to do right now.

When Motor Trend had the 2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 LS Edition set a lap time on Laguna Seca, it didn't just beat the BMW M3's lap time, but the 2010 Shelby GT500's and Audi R8 4.2 FSI V8's as well.

Also, I4-FWD BMW 3 series?! What, I thought the 3 series was RWD and had an Inline-6 engine.

Yeah when I get bored I tend to read up on stuff that I don't know much about. Always something to learn.

 

[homeforsummer]

Famine has already covered the idiocy of W&N's previous comments, but let's just dissect this one a bit more:

It's still rather tragic. They must have set the bar pretty low to let a tiny

Tiny = relative. It's 139.4 inches long, 64.6 wide and 58.6 high. That's only five inches shorter, but an inch wider and 3 inches taller than the original Volkswagen Golf *. Or the size of an old compact car,

way-too-tall-for-its-size box car

Also relative. That one depends on how you define "too tall for its size". As a wider car than a Mk1 Golf, it can get away with extra height - particularly as its wheelbase is an inch longer and the cabin space too is larger, balancing the shape.

Of course, there are multiple reasons for the car being taller than small cars of old anyway. Being able to actually fit people inside is one of the more important ones.

with a tiny, underpowered engine

Holy smokes, there's that relativity coming into it again. With 59 and 74 horsepower options and a relatively low curb weight (just over 2,000 lbs), it's pretty much par for the course for minicars/subcompacts stretching back since minicars and subcompacts existed.

My first car 10 years ago had the same 59 hp output and pretty much the same curb weight. A Beetle 1303S from the 70s had 15% less power than that, and 11% less weight. The original Mini had 30% less power than that and weighed 30% less too **.

Power/weight has remained pretty consistent for the average small car since forever.

Of course, you'd probably consider all minicars and subcompacts "underpowered", but since we've already established you haven't the foggiest clue of what you're on about I'll let that one pass.

Guess it just goes to show what direction things are headed in.

I know, how terrible that car manufacturers continue to build small cars, like they have more or less since the dawn of the motor car.

If you want a "car of the year" award from someone, you don't need it to be fun or cool or fast or even good-looking, you just have to get an astronomical MPG figure and then build enough of them to qualify it as a mass-market car.

Just like the Audi A6, BMW 3-Series and Lexus LS 460 from that list. Or the Cadillac ATS, this year's NACOTY. Or even really the Golf that took this year's ECOTY.

You don't half talk out of your arse sometimes, W&N.



* Facts in the facts thread for the win
** More facts!

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

My car research begins!
The BMW M1 is one of BMW's rarest car models with only 456 production cars built after 7 prototypes were made.

The original, e28 BMW M5 used an evolution of the M1 engine.

 

[Sertsa]

Also, I4-FWD BMW 3 series?! What, I thought the 3 series was RWD and had an Inline-6 engine.

As Dennisch said there have been a few 4-cylinder 3-Series BMWs, and with the new one, the F30, the 328 now has a turbocharged four cylinder engine while the 335 has a turbocharged six. If you want a new BMW with a naturally-aspirated inline six (at least in the US) you'll need to get a 128, but you'll need to hurry.

You can also get 3-Series BMWs with AWD. They're popular in the snowbelt region in which I live (I've shopped for RWD 3-series with manuals and found them to be much less common).

I guess this all fits into random car facts. It's been a while since I've looked at this thread and am surprised at what's going on.

Anyway, what do I know? A while ago I test drove a BMW 328i, several Acura TSXs, a Subaru Legacy GT, a recent Honda Accord Coupe (I own a 2000 version), an Infiniti G37 and a lot of other cars, but when it came time to buy I bought an economy car with a comparatively tepid 155 hp engine driving the front wheels because I felt it made the most sense for my purposes while also being very nimble and fun. I've since taken it down as many curving, undulating roads as I could find.

 

[Roger the Horse]

And, for all of you V8 worshippers who will instantly dismiss Car Of The Year awards because it's possible for a small, practical, economical, and (in my humble opinion) extremely good looking car which is accepted by most who have had the pleasure to drive one to be great fun to drive to win said awards:

The Porsche 928 was European Car of the Year in 1978.

Throughout it's 18 year lifespan the Porsche 928 exclusively utilised V8 engines, of 4.5, 4.7, 5.0, and 5.4 litres in capacity.

 

[Sertsa]

Not just in cars but some motorsports as well. Drag racing for example is huge with automatics. Most autos that are used can take high amounts of power stock over a manual. For example, T5 manuals are good until about 300-350 rwhp. A C6 auto trans can take up to 600+ with no modification, yet a T5 costs considerably more to A. Purchase and B. Beef up. C6s an other like powerglides are readily available everywhere for dirt cheap. That isn't to say that some manuals can't take it though. That is simply not the case.


Also, offroad, an auto will improve your drivability. No need to think a out what gear you need to be in for something etc. unless you need super low hearing for mudding, an auto will be fine. A manual valve body can mimic a manual without the need to press a clutch pedal which is another reason they are popular in drag racing.

Then you have to take into consideration the people who hate shifting and just want to go without the hassle. Shifting can be fun but it can also get annoying especially on long trips or when you live in an area with a lot of stop and go.

Yes manuals are great but there were some bad ones. Some automatics are great and there are bad ones as well.

On a related note, I know a few people who often drag race and win with automatics. They tend to go to bracket races, where they set a time and try to consistently hit it (without going over) and using an automatic allows them to be very consistent. One even likes to travel to where he's going to race in his own, manual transmission car, then rents an automatic Ford sedan (really), and takes that to the track. He at least uses his own tires.

(edit: I still greatly prefer manuals, but I know they're not for everyone. I do wish they weren't becoming so rare, especially in cars that are marketed to enthusiasts. Anyway, I just returned from a pretty long trip and was happy I had a manual, especially to be able to handle mountains with a fairly fuel-efficient engine).

 

[Conbon14]

Bmw has never made a fwd if i remember

 

[Vegard]

Bmw has never made a fwd if i remember

Although it's called a Mini, it's really a BMW.

 

[Roger the Horse]

BMW hasn't made any non-Mini front wheel drive cars YET. That's set to change soon.

 

[MatskiMonk]

Bmw has never made a fwd if i remember

Nothing that has worn a BMW badge and been in series production...

That is set to change quite soon...

edit: Tree'd

 

[White & Nerdy]

NOTE to anyone who thought I said the 3-series had FWD: that's not what I meant, though considering it was after midnight when I wrote that, it might have sounded like it. What I meant was that the 3-series was a nice balance between "designed for isolation" (the Lexus) and the various tiny (or in some cases, just smallish) FWD economy cars. Doesn't go too far in either direction.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

As Dennisch said there have been a few 4-cylinder 3-Series BMWs, and with the new one, the F30, the 328 now has a turbocharged four cylinder engine while the 335 has a turbocharged six. If you want a new BMW with a naturally-aspirated inline six (at least in the US) you'll need to get a 128, but you'll need to hurry.

You can also get 3-Series BMWs with AWD. They're popular in the snowbelt region in which I live (I've shopped for RWD 3-series with manuals and found them to be much less common).

I was aware of the 3-series coming with AWD, just not about the Inline-4 bit about the 3-series, but you guys have informed me about that and I'm happy you did. Anyway, I'm not really in the market for any car right now, I was just shocked about the comment of a FWD, inline 4 BMW 3-series. Mainly because I'm still not so informed on engines and other mechanic stuff yet. Which is why I'm going to spend my free time to do some research.

 

[Wolfe]

I thought the 3 series...had an Inline-6 engine.

As Dennisch said there have been a few 4-cylinder 3-Series BMWs, and with the new one, the F30, the 328 now has a turbocharged four cylinder engine while the 335 has a turbocharged six.

There have been more than just a few -- BMWs have always been available with 4-cylinder engines in Europe, even the 5-series (yup, 518i). The company's first major success were its 4-cylinder-powered "New Class" sedans of the 1960s/1970s, which arguably invented the sports sedan; the first 3-series was an evolution of the New Class. BMW is famous for its inline-6s, but inline-4s are in its blood.

The original, e28 BMW M5 used an evolution of the M1 engine.

Following along with this, and the talk of 4-cylinders -- the 4-cylinder E30 M3 that Dennisch mentioned had a block design based on the M10 that powered the original New Class sedans, with a DOHC cylinder head that was essentially the head from that M5/M1 engine minus two cylinders.

 

[Dennisch]

Even the 5 series is made with an I4. Tree'd!

Also. There were only 254 BMW 507's build, quite rare.

 

[Vantage7825]

Samsung makes cars.

 

[MatskiMonk]

BMW is famous for its inline-6s, but inline-4s are in its blood.

BMW headquarters... the Four Cylinder Building

 

[GranTurismo916]

Mitsubishi has made models starting with every letter in the alphabet (except Q, U, X, and Y,):

A - Adventure/Airtrek/Aspire/ASX/Attrage
B - Baja Raider
C - Challenger/Champ/Chariot/Colt/Cyclone
D - Debonair/Delica/Diamante/Dignity/Dion
E - Eclipse/eK/Emeraude/Endeavor/Eterna/Expo/Express
F - Forte/Freeca/FTO/Fuzion
G - G-CAB/G-Wagon/Galant/Galant Fortis/Grandis/GTO
H - HSR Concept series
I - i
J - Jolie
K - Kuda
L - L-series/Lancer/Legnum
M - Magna/Maven/MF/Mighty Max/Minica/Mirage/Model A/Montero/MS/MX
N - National Montero/Nativa/New Colt/Nimbus
O - Outlander
P - Pajero/Pinin/Pistachio
R - Raider/RVR
S - Sapporo/Savrin/Scorpion/Shogun/Sigma/Space series/Sportero/Starion/Starwagon/Strada/Storm
T - Town Box/Towny/Tredia/Type 73
V - V3000/Van/Verada/Versa Van/VRG/VRM
W - Wagon/Warrior
Z - Zinger/ZX

 

[Roger the Horse]

General Motors currently have 7 brands of passenger cars (Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Holden, Opel, and Vauxhall). In the past decade General Motors have discontinued 5 brands (Daewoo in 2011, Hummer in 2010, Oldsmobile in 2004, Pontiac in 2010, and Saturn in 2010) while they have also in the past decade sold one brand (Saab in 2010, who sadly went out of business not long after).

 

[McLaren]

My car research begins!
The BMW M1 is one of BMW's rarest car models with only 456 production cars built after 7 prototypes were made.

The original, e28 BMW M5 used an evolution of the M1 engine.

In addition, the M1 was also co-developed by Lamborghini who setup the chassis & the prototypes. BMW took over when Lamborghini hit financial burden just before production.

NOTE to anyone who thought I said the 3-series had FWD: that's not what I meant, though considering it was after midnight when I wrote that, it might have sounded like it. What I meant was that the 3-series was a nice balance between "designed for isolation" (the Lexus) and the various tiny (or in some cases, just smallish) FWD economy cars. Doesn't go too far in either direction.

Except it's not in between any of those things....3 Series are very much connected to the road & there's not a hint of FWD anything.

Stop talking about something you clearly haven't driven.

 

[Sertsa]

- The 1964 Porsche 911 made 130 HP. (Source here).

- The 1986 BMW M3 had a four-cylinder engine that put out 195 HP. (Source here)

 

[Badasp5.0]

General Motors currently have 7 brands of passenger cars (Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Holden, Opel, and Vauxhall). In the past decade General Motors have discontinued 5 brands (Daewoo in 2011, Hummer in 2010, Oldsmobile in 2004, Pontiac in 2010, and Saturn in 2010) while they have also in the past decade sold one brand (Saab in 2010, who sadly went out of business not long after).

Of those Holden, Opel, and Vauxhall are not sold in GMs home market of the US.

 

[Badasp5.0]

On a related note, I know a few people who often drag race and win with automatics. They tend to go to bracket races, where they set a time and try to consistently hit it (without going over) and using an automatic allows them to be very consistent. One even likes to travel to where he's going to race in his own, manual transmission car, then rents an automatic Ford sedan (really), and takes that to the track. He at least uses his own tires.

(edit: I still greatly prefer manuals, but I know they're not for everyone. I do wish they weren't becoming so rare, especially in cars that are marketed to enthusiasts. Anyway, I just returned from a pretty long trip and was happy I had a manual, especially to be able to handle mountains with a fairly fuel-efficient engine).

+1 if you go into late model drag racing IE NMRA, PSCA ETC manuals rule the day.

 

[Sertsa]

NOTE to anyone who thought I said the 3-series had FWD: that's not what I meant, though considering it was after midnight when I wrote that, it might have sounded like it. What I meant was that the 3-series was a nice balance between "designed for isolation" (the Lexus) and the various tiny (or in some cases, just smallish) FWD economy cars. Doesn't go too far in either direction.

Driving one is a completely different experience, however. I haven't driven an F30, but taking a RWD E90 along a curving, hilly road was intoxicating. There wasn't any Lexus like isolation, but rather a connection and balance (and the sound of the engine was awesome). The car wasn't very big, either. I think most current Civics, Focuses and Mazda 3s have about the same room, albeit with different materials. It did have better isolation from road noise than most economy cars and generally felt more solid. In short, the 3-series isn't in between anything but its own thing and own experience (at least until recently). I could go on, but you should try one at least to see what the feel and fuss is about. I nearly bought it but decided that, at least for my daily commuting car, I should go with something less expensive to maintain out of warranty (and the lack of a dipstick or place for a spare if I wanted to switch out the runflats bothered me). But everyone who enjoys driving should take a 3-Series down an undulating road at some point in their lives.