Real Guns

[hogger129]

He seems like a nice man, he really does. Unfortunately, I LOVE Double-Gulp & guns, so we can never be friends.

Oh I agree with him that soda is unhealthy. I would rather have a blue UV & vodka instead. A lot of things are unhealthy. That doesn't mean they should be illegal.

 

[Michael88]

If you thought that normal precision & benchrest rifle shooting is expensive and complex watch this:




Not a hobby I'd like to do because it takes out the ''human factor'' in shooting and marksmanship but very impressive none the less.

 

[Brett]

Does anyone have experience with the G3 or PTR's variations of the G3?

 

[Omnis]

@Michael88, those aren't rifles, they're micro artillery.

 

[a6m5]

Ah, looking around for rifle again Brett? Wasn't Michael bit familiar with them? Or was that another PTR rifle?

If you thought that normal precision & benchrest rifle shooting is expensive and complex watch this:

I actually like it. Very interesting approach to the game.


Edit: As soon as I posted this, Omnis' post & avatar came up & startled me. Little bit creepy, little bit intimidating avatar you got there.

 

[Michael88]

Ah, looking around for rifle again Brett? Wasn't Michael bit familiar with them? Or was that another PTR rifle?

You must be thinking of somebody else, I know the G3 system and its flaws but I have no first hand experience with this rifle whatsoever.

I actually like it. Very interesting approach to the game.

Its the hunt for ultimate precision. A little bit too static for me and it doesn't take skill to shoot these ''guns''. Still crazy though, they could shoot gnats at 200yds all day long if they wanted to. Insect-varminting.

 

[Omnis]

Why would you bother with gunpowder in a rig like that? Wouldn't it be more precise to shoot electromagnetically? Guess rail guns are sort of [even more] expensive...

 

[Michael88]

It wouldn't. AFAIK rail guns and coil guns are highly inaccurate, the projectile they fire is not spun and merely fin or weight stabilized (like an arrow). The odd projectile shapes required to withstand the extreme forces upon firing are not ideal for pure accuracy. The air friction melts away the projectile and the air that turns into plasma creates odd turbulences and extreme heat which further affects accuracy.
Muzzle velocity varies with the tiniest voltage deviations (varying velocity results in excessive vertical stringing even at short ranges) All rail guns can do is fire projectiles at very fast velocities with ''clean energy'', when muzzle velocity isn't crucial they get their arse whooped by conventional firearms. Also rail guns need to be rebuilt every few shots or so.

The reason why conventional firearms are so accurate is because that system is extremely simple and therefore well understood, variations can be kept at a minimum so accuracy is great.

 

[a6m5]

Boy, haven't heard anything about those in a long time. I wonder if anybody ever bothered equipping with them, maybe U.S. I guess.

Its the hunt for ultimate precision. A little bit too static for me and it doesn't take skill to shoot these ''guns''. Still crazy though, they could shoot gnats at 200yds all day long if they wanted to. Insect-varminting.

While it requires very little skill(considering) to achieve the accuracy, I find their attention & focus towards the design & engineering of the firearm & cartridge interesting. Shooting flys & mosquitos would rock.

 

[Slash]

I had a small buck run behind me earlier, but the prize of the day went to my dad. Dad dropped this monster this morning. He used a Mossberg 20 gauge, I've got a Winchester 120D 12ga.

 

[a6m5]

I don't know about a monster, but honestly, nice going for your dad! 👍 So many people I know go hunting & come back with nothing......

 

[Slash]

In New York, that thing is unheard of, especially for a whitetail. That thing is ridiculously huge, especially in person.

Yeah sometimes I don't even see anything.

 

[a6m5]

Well, congratulations! I will PM you the address to mail the jerkies to. Little black pepper would be good.

 

[Michael88]

Congrats, Slash-Dad. The buck sure looks tasty. What slug did he use in his 20 gauge and how did it perform?

 

[Slash]

Well, congratulations! I will PM you the address to mail the jerkies to. Little black pepper would be good.

Unfortunately, we didn't keep it, we gave it to the kid that shot it the first time. My dad put two more in it to finish it off. The deer is big so the meat would be tough so he's making jerky.

What happened was, the guys were pushing woods really hard. I was sitting in a tree stand clear across a second field, and it ran out in front of the kid, so he shot it and broke a rear leg. It kept running and walked clear in front of my dad. He wasn't going to shoot it because he didn't have a buck tag but he downed it to finish it off and gave it to the kid. IT was his second buck so he was happy.

@Michael88

Remington deer slugs, 2 3/4's and 3s. Had some Winchester Super X's he had to use up as well so one of those 3. I use them as well so it could have been any number of them. We've used other too but we went on the cheap.

 

[a6m5]

I've been kind of wondering about .410 slugs. I guess they are lethal enough!

 

[Slash]

I've been kind of wondering about .410 slugs. I guess they are lethal enough!

Not for white tail deer. You'd barely be able to down one with .410 slugs, it would take like 8 shots, maybe 4 good located ones. They have barely enough power to take a turkey down with bird shot let alone a big deer. I also believe at least in NY, it is illegal to use them since they don't meet the minimum amount of required muzzle energy to take down big game. In fact I think they are also illegal for turkeys. We've had a hard enough time dropping some deer with 20 gauges around here sometimes.

We are estimating that this one (above) is carrying at least 180lbs of meat alone, so I'm thinking the deer is probably a good amount over 200 lbs. That's unheard of around here.

 

[a6m5]

So they are kind of bullet substitute, but nothing like the monster that 12-Gauge slugs are?

 

[Slash]

Kind of, yeah. I wouldn't waste your money on them personally. If you are going to deer hunt, get something bigger like a 20 or 12. Those are the most common around here. You see the occasional 10ga or the 16ga bird gun but that's about it. These are what I use 99% of the time except for those extra Super X's I had. The Winchester rounds are alright but I prefer the Remington's. Brenneke's are alright as well but they shoot kind of high. Our 2 main shotguns and most of the rest are smooth bore guns, which are hard to find. Someone told us they don't make them anymore.

In the muzzloader we usually use Hornady FPB's which are basically sabots.

 

[Michael88]

If you are using slugs I can wholeheartedly recommend Rottweil Exact Slugs, those are German brand but I believe they are available everywhere around the world. Those are designed to spin through air friction making them far more accurate than foster and old Brenneke slugs. They're available in 20 gauge too.

These are the slugs:

I shoot them myself and inside 60yds they group just like rifles.

My best group: (12 3/4, one ounce @ 1500 fps, 5 shots, 60yds with iron sights - out of a smooth bore with no choke )

And thats how I shot them today, 5 shots 60yds, ironsights. It was a little too cold for me to shoot as accurately as in the pic above (I was so cold I that I was shaking and my fingers were stiff like frozen carrots) and I got one flier on the left but they still hit good enough, they would all totally be in the kill zone of a deer.

 

[Slash]

The top picture in your post is almost the same to how I shoot with open sights using the Remingtons at 50 yards. Scoped it's even better. I'll have to give them a try though. 👍

If I want to shoot longer than 75 yards I'll take the muzzleloader.

 

[Michael88]

Seems like your shotgun likes those slugs! 👍 What choke does it have? I found out that shotguns can be veeeery picky when it comes to slugs, mine shoots Brenneke and Fosters not very well, groups the size of small dinner plates at 50. Maybe they would group better with a cylinder choke....

I just hope yours weighs more than 6 lbs, mine is trying to kill me when shot from the bench with regular stuff and magnum slugs out of that little gun is only for suicidal people. ( I wouldn't do it even when suicidal, I bet they would make the stock crack eventually)

 

[Slash]

Yeah they seemed to perform the best. Brenneke's were a bit more sporadic. I'm not sure what choke it has honestly, I haven't opened it up. Whatever an unmolested Winchester Ranger Model 120 has. It's exactly the same gun as the Model 1300 but the stock and grip is made of different wood. Apparently the 120 is somewhat rare and my dad said it's worth a decent amount of money.

The gun is light as hell lol. With hunting gear on the recoil isn't to bad but with just a t-shirt it will bruise me. A few of my friends have Remington 870's, and that gun feels quite a bit heavier.

 

[Michael88]

I just read that 120's have an aluminum receiver, guess that what makes it lighter than your friends 870's which are all-steel. Yeah, shot while standing upright with a thick jacket it should be totally tolerable, but I recommend sighting one in in summer with a t-shirt, from the bench for the max fun.
I still want to shoot mine from prone in a shirt just for kicks, though I'm afraid it could break my collarbone. Anyone want to give it a try?

 

[Slash]

It's about 6 lbs from what I am reading online. It's very light. All of my friends have all said the same thing, they couldn't believe it. The barrel is also a smooth bore which I am told isn't made on almost anything anymore.

When I was shooting those slugs I was on one knee. On a table I would be a lot more accurate. I try to sight my gun in in positions I would use in the field though, so I can practice that and get better at free aiming rather than having to rely on resting on something all the time.

I wouldn't with my 120 lol. I probably would brake my shoulder.

 

[Michael88]

It makes sense when the point of impact changes with the positions but I have never experienced that - except when shooting prone, I tend to hit low right but that might be from tightening my hand while pulling the trigger and/or canting the rifle in my shoulder pocket. Its just a shooters error and I have to work on that one.

 

[a6m5]

The barrel is also a smooth bore which I am told isn't made on almost anything anymore.

Most shotguns are smooth bore, right? Is it called fixed choke when the barrel is not threaded for chokes? I'm not even sure.

 

[Slash]

It makes sense when the point of impact changes with the positions but I have never experienced that - except when shooting prone, I tend to hit low right but that might be from tightening my hand while pulling the trigger and/or canting the rifle in my shoulder pocket. Its just a shooters error and I have to work on that one.

Yeah I hear you there. I'm sort of the same in prone.

Most shotguns are smooth bore, right? Is it called fixed choke when the barrel is not threaded for chokes? I'm not even sure.

Used to be that way. Nowadays most shotguns at least from what I have seen are rifled. My dad wanted to replace an old worn out barrel that was a smooth bore and when he went to get it change they told him they didn't make smooth bores anymore as everything converted to rifled barrels. He was kinda mad.this is for slugs anyways. Might be different for bird barrels.

 

[a6m5]

Used to be that way. Nowadays most shotguns at least from what I have seen are rifled. My dad wanted to replace an old worn out barrel that was a smooth bore and when he went to get it change they told him they didn't make smooth bores anymore as everything converted to rifled barrels. He was kinda mad.this is for slugs anyways. Might be different for bird barrels.

Well, for replacement barrel, I can kind of see why there may be a lot of rifled barrels. I believe most shotguns come equipped with smooth barrels, so people looking to buy barrels separately are looking for different type of barrel. I would also guess that rifled barrels wear out faster, so they are more likely to need replacement.

Granted, it's been probably 3 years or so since I've shopped for one, and while mine's threaded(for chokes), they were all smooth bore, and I can't believe things changed that much in just last couple of years. In fact, my coworker recently shopped for rifled barrel for his 870, bought it, wouldn't fit, so he ended up buying a new 870 that came with both smooth(2 3/4 or 3") & rifled(2 3/4, 6feet long lol) & he didn't mention anything about new shotguns now being sold equipped with rifled barrels. He did say that shooting a slug out of the rifled barrel kicked his ass.

 

[Michael88]

I wouldn't worry about a rifled shotgun barrel wearing out, I mean you're shooting soft lead projectiles at low speed and low pressures through it. It probably lasts a hundred thousand shots easily, and I'm not even exaggerating.
The only problem would not shooting slugs but shot through it, you wouldn't only get horrible patterns with it the shot pellets rattling down the barrel would damage the rifling sooner or later.