Real Guns

[Michael88]

Today I found some really old beer in the darkest corner of my freezer, of course it expired more than a year ago. What to do with old beer? I put it in my garden and shot it with my .22 with sub sonics from about 50 meters. (No worries, I used a good backstop) Those cans exploded pretty good.
I also shot my old and defunct wheelbarrow just to see if the bullet makes it through the metal - it did without breaking a sweat. Thats three times the thickness of a car door I think.

 

[a6m5]

Guys. I just got back from going out to shoot with my buddy. My USP blew up in my hands. I am OK, but I sure would like to ask you guys questions as to how I should handle an incident like this. I suspect the ammo, but I'm uploading the pics right now.

 

[Michael88]

Holy crap, I've never heard of an USP blowing up, glad you are ok. Pics of the case (especially the primer) and the barrel would help a lot to find out what happened. If it turns out the ammo caused the accident you definitely have to contact the manufacturer, maybe its a faulty batch so lot of other people may be in danger.

In any case, save the remaining ammo.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Man a USP blowing up? Must have been one hell of a ****ed up round. Do you reload?

 

[a6m5]

Before:



After:


Thank god I was wearing gloves. It did cut through just a tiny bit on the right hand, and it's little bit sore, like it's bit beat up, but other than that & small blister & a cut, that was all the injuries on my hands(all on the right).

Holy crap, I've never heard of an USP blowing up, glad you are ok. Pics of the case (especially the primer) and the barrel would help a lot to find out what happened. If it turns out the ammo caused the accident you definitely have to contact the manufacturer, maybe its a faulty batch so lot of other people may be in danger.

In any case, save the remaining ammo.

I did, and I will contact the manufacturer. I'll post the pictures of the actual cause for this accident, and please tell me what you guys think(will be uploaded in few minutes). Found this video googling & it's a super similar accident:

Man a USP blowing up? Must have been one hell of a ****ed up round. Do you reload?

Never. I have fired quite a few reloads given to me in 9mm & 12-Gauge, but never in a .45.

 

[Michael88]

Wow, I've seen many blown up pistols but this is definitely one of the worst.
The whole frame was blown to bits, its a miracle you still have all your fingers. Definitely looking forward to see the barrel and brass, I just hope the latter wasn't blown to dust.

There must have been something very wrong with the round, firing out of battery or firing on a stuck projectile in the barrel would not cause that much damage, I suspect a completely overcharged round, maybe even with the wrong powder.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

That is utterly destroyed. I'm very glad you weren't hurt. I'm in disbelief at how badly the gun failed.

 

[Michael88]

Lets not blame the gun until we know more. I could make a spiked 45 round that would blow up any gun, no matter how well built.

 

[a6m5]

That is utterly destroyed. I'm very glad you weren't hurt.

Thanks man. Me, too. After it exploded, I just stood still there for awhile. In total shock & disbelief.

Lets not blame the gun until we know more. I could make a spiked 45 round that would blow up any gun, no matter how well built.

I'm not convinced that it was the gun either, but if I had to guess, it was the excessive charge. Here are two pics that I think will tell the story:





You guys know I'm no engineer, or firearms expert, so I couldn't say anything for sure, but I do think the ammo #1(stuck inside) & #2 is the key to figuring out what happened.

 

[Michael88]

I'm not an expert either but it looks a lot like an overcharged round to me. The pushed-in projectile was caused by the pressure escaping from the brass into the magazine.

I'd contact the place you bought the ammo from and tell them there may be a problem with it and then I'd send the ammo manufacturer customer service those pictures.

 

[a6m5]

I was few rounds into the mag when it just went boom! Pieces went flying in what must've been around 10~20 foot radius. I didn't feel any pain, but I was so scared to see the extent of the damage. I was asking my friend, "how's my face!? Any injury to the face!?", because that was the only part of my body I couldn't visually inspect. He told me that my nose was bleeding, so I thought that he meant that my "nose was bleeding", but it was just from a small cut:



I'm not even religious, but once again, thank god.

I'm not an expert either but it looks a lot like an overcharged round to me. The pushed-in projectile was caused by the pressure escaping from the brass into the magazine.

I thought maybe the #2 was being loaded into the chamber by the action, but I didn't think about the bullet being pressed back into the casing by the explosion. I'm nervous about handling that ammo #2. Do you guys think it's dangerous?

 

[Crash]

Holy 🤬, @a6m5. First off, I'm glad that you're ok. You are lucky that you still have all your fingers in place. I've never seen a USP blow up, and blow up like that. That must have been scary.

 

[a6m5]

Holy 🤬, @a6m5. First off, I'm glad that you're ok. You are lucky that you still have all your fingers in place. I've never seen a USP blow up, and blow up like that. That must have been scary.

Thanks man. 👍 Scary, only few seconds after the fact. Once I understood why the gun wasn't in my hands anymore, I was scared.

You only hear about this stuff on the internet. I seriously thought about giving up guns, but I think I was still in shock. I may still sell off all my .45 ammo, 1911, and go to a 9mm, or anything with lesser charge in them.

Edit: Here are the pics I preferred to have posted instead.

Same friend(driver), same Rover.


20-Gauge shotgun he borrowed from a coworker. I had never shot a 20-Gauge before. Kinda nice.


Shooting my Bushmaster 308.




My Late-USP.


T minus.........


Took this from the top of the backstop. Best damn backstop we ever found.


Selfie from the top(I was careful not to fall lol).

​

Edit2: My very first video post, ever. I wanted to try rapid firing, as I had never tried it on my .308. Please, no laughing.



Seriously, don't laugh.

 

[Brett]

That is some scary stuff. Though, glad to hear you made it out okay with only minimal physical damage. 👍 I am not really sure how I would react to something like that happening.

 

[a6m5]

That is some scary stuff. Though, glad to hear you made it out okay with only minimal physical damage. 👍 I am not really sure how I would react to something like that happening.

Probably same as me. Stand there going "WTF". It was scary taking the gloves off, as my right hand was sore, and the glove did tear in one spot & I had no idea how my hands were going to look like once I took the gloves off.

 

[Michael88]

Did the projectile leave the barrel? Put a dowel or something down the bore and see if its stuck in there.
Also inspect the barrel for any bulging or ''rings'', sometimes its not visible right away but you can feel it.

Probably same as me. Stand there going "WTF". It was scary taking the gloves off, as my right hand was sore, and the glove did tear in one spot & I had no idea how my hands were going to look like once I took the gloves off.

In any case you should really contact the ammo manufacturer, send them pictures and offer them to send the remaining ammo for testing purposes. It was their fault and blowing up a gun like that could have resulted in major injuries. When producing millions of rounds some faulty ones slipping in is sadly inevitable, but exploding a good gun like that is not ok.
They owe you big time.

And I don't want to sound like an ass, but boy am I glad I reload all my ammo. Imagine a rifle round going off like that with more than twice the pressure.

 

[David]

.

 

[a6m5]

Did the projectile leave the barrel? Put a dowel or something down the bore and see if its stuck in there.
Also inspect the barrel for any bulging or ''rings'', sometimes its not visible right away but you can feel it.

• Barrel is clear, and no visible bulging is present in the bore.
• As seen in the pic below(same pic previously posted), empty case is stuck inside the chamber.

​

Barrel/chamber is stuck inside the slide, and I am thinking that bulge, or expansion is at the chamber. I'll take another picture.

@Michael88 Here are few more I took (mainly) of the chamber:

In any case you should really contact the ammo manufacturer, send them pictures and offer them to send the remaining ammo for testing purposes. It was their fault and blowing up a gun like that could have resulted in major injuries. When producing millions of rounds some faulty ones slipping in is sadly inevitable, but exploding a good gun like that is not ok.
They owe you big time.

It is holiday weekend in the States, so I did email the manufacturer's customer service. I realize it's not the best method to handle this, but I just didn't want to wait. I'm always polite with people trying to do their jobs, but I did request that they replace my gun. I have not contacted H&K, as I see how the cartridge had exploded inside the chamber. Again, I'm not at all qualified to determine the exact cause of the accident, but at least to me, this suggests that charge was excessive in this particular load.

And I don't want to sound like an ass, but boy am I glad I reload all my ammo. Imagine a rifle round going off like that with more than twice the pressure.

You know, After googling this subject few times last night, people were quick to *no pun intended* take shots at reloads, but I am so anal when it comes to stuff like this, had I reloaded my own ammo, accident like this would have never happened. Mass manufacturing on the other hand, this isn't directed at ZQI, but after watching the video you found the other day, I was just thinking how much of a crap shoot "quality control" seemed to me. Thankfully, we get way more duds than double charge(or whatever they are called), but however small the chance of you getting a bad one is, it's inevitable.

Dude, holy crap. Wasn't expecting to read all this stuff when I opened the thread this morning. Glad you are alright.

Thank you. Yeah, no shooter expect to see something like this happen to somebody you know. I've seen it on the internet, but I never thought it would happen to me(and to my favorite gun ). I'm just grateful that I came out of it in one piece. 👍

I wouldn't write off one caliber over another because of what happened. An improperly loaded/manufactured 9mm round can be just as destructive.

I'm sure the firearm mechanism & design would have lot to do with it, but I was thinking the lesser charge in the cartridge wouldn't hurt in this type of accident.

How many times had you taken the USP out since you bought it? You got it used for a decent price if I remember correctly right?

Many, many times. It was around $700($600~$650 + 2 bricks of .22). Used, but pretty much in like-new & flawless condition. It was my baby, so very well maintained.

I feel like I did everything right, then something like this happen to you. I was SO happy to be OK, but it was not a good feeling to realize that you can do everything in your power to make it go safe & smooth, and still could get seriously hurt.

 

[Michael88]

Yeah, if the barrel has no signs of expansion or (aside the chamber) we can pretty much rule out the accident happening because of firing on a stuck projectile / barrel obstruction. Again, I'm no expert in this but I'm pretty sure it was an overcharged round that destroyed your gun. I showed the pics to some of my friends and they agree.
I thought about a faulty case but that would not have exploded your gun like that, it simply would have vented the gas into the frame blowing out the magazine or something like that, not blowing it to pieces.
Since only 35-50% of the case capacity is used in the 45 a double-charge is absolutely possible.

I'm looking forward to the response to your e-mail, keep us posted.

I only ever had one problem with factory ammo, I remember shooting an 8x57 rifle round out of my K98 when I felt some gas blowback in my face, fortunately I wore protective glasses.
Turned out the primer pocket of the brass was a bit too large so when I fired it gas went around the primer back into the gun/action. I had to clean the firing pin channel but the gun and I were unharmed.

Never had a problem with my own reloads, and I literally reloaded thousands and thousands of rounds. Its not even possible - with the powder I'm using the cases are filled to 95%. Even if I filled the whole case I'd still not get any overpressure thanks to the powder I'm using. Of course I'm talking about rifle rounds here but there are powders that completely fill the .45 cases, making a double or overcharge practically impossible.

Edit2: My very first video post, ever. I wanted to try rapid firing, as I had never tried it on my .308. Please, no laughing.​

Seriously, don't laugh.

Just lean forward, transfer 70% of your weight onto your left foot and lean into the rifle when firing and you're good to go! This way recoil does not rock you back as far and you can shoot more rapidly as the recoil recovery time is much shorter.

 

[a6m5]

I do remember you posting about that rifle round.

I will keep you guys posted on what the ammunition manufacture say, though at the very best, I expect a runaround. If I get nowhere with them, I plan on contacting H&K, but: 1) I'm not the original owner. 2) I really don't believe that it was the gun that malfunctioned.

For those two reasons, I have zero expectations. Bad: I'm out of my favorite gun. Good: Still have both hands & ten fingers.

Just lean forward, transfer 70% of your weight onto your left foot and lean into the rifle when firing and you're good to go! This way recoil does not rock you back as far and you can shoot more rapidly as the recoil recovery time is much shorter.

It just caught me off-guard. Recoil was so much greater when firing successively(switch to 5.56 is starting to make sense lol). I'll try out your suggestion next time!

 

[Omnis]

It looks like they loaded that cartridge with range trash.

Go eat some baby back ribs so you can lick and kiss your fingers.

Also, that rapid fire video was great. I did laugh-- sorry! You look like a new GTA character shooting that thing.

 

[Michael88]

For those two reasons, I have zero expectations. Bad: I'm out of my favorite gun. Good: Still have both hands & ten fingers.

Maybe they'll simply send you a new .45 round as replacement for the one that destroyed itself? Isn't that how warranty works nowadays?

 

[a6m5]

Go eat some baby back ribs so you can lick and kiss your fingers.

👍

Also, that rapid fire video was great. I did laugh-- sorry!

I'm not gonna lie, I laugh at myself in that video.

Maybe they'll simply send you a new .45 round as replacement for the one that destroyed itself? Isn't that how warranty works nowadays?

 

[Michael88]

Nah, don't worry, they'll surely give you some kind of compensation, the last thing an ammo manufacturer can afford nowadays is the rumor that their ammo is explosive. This can cause substantially damage to their sales, especially in the information age we're living in right now. Heck, the information has already made it across the big ocean into my little country in no time whatsoever.
I know if I had a .45 I would not buy ammo from Fiocchi ever again and neither will my friends who saw those pics. We love our guns!

On the other hand, I remember asking a big ready-meal production company for compensation because I found tons of maggots in my meal ( unfortunately I had already finished half of the meal when I discovered the extra protein).
What did they do? Send me an apology letter and a parcel filled with free samples of their products!
Ok, my mouth didn't explode to pieces but you get my point.

 

[a6m5]

Nah, don't worry, they'll surely give you some kind of compensation, the last thing an ammo manufacturer can afford nowadays is the rumor that their ammo is explosive. This can cause substantially damage to their sales, especially in the information age we're living in right now. Heck, the information has already made it across the big ocean into my little country in no time whatsoever.
I know if I had a .45 I would not buy ammo from Fiocchi ever again and neither will my friends who saw those pics. We love our guns!

I probably should have withheld the pic showing the manufacture name, and for me personally, it's not just that particular brand. Ever since the incident, I've been second guessing everything firearms related from ammo, firearms, approach to the hobby, self-defense, etc., etc. My attitude has gone from "wow, it'd be great if I could shoot everyday" to wanting to shoot the absolute minimum. It sounds paranoid, but I think it's just human nature. I hope I get over it, but if one could truly imagine the firearm exploding in their hands, I think they'd understand where I'm coming from. It's terrifying.[/scarred for life]

On the other hand, I remember asking a big ready-meal production company for compensation because I found tons of maggots in my meal ( unfortunately I had already finished half of the meal when I discovered the extra protein).
What did they do? Send me an apology letter and a parcel filled with free samples of their products!
Ok, my mouth didn't explode to pieces but you get my point.

Maybe they were supposed to grind them first & serve them as tofu?

Edit: I put together the puzzle to create this exploded view(pun intended).

Pieces.


Put together.




I owe my buddy a lunch for finding & picking up all the pieces while I was crying in fetal position.

 

[Eric.]

I don't know about Fiocchi, being imported, but what I've heard from this sort of stuff (and my own experience with that 300BLK squib round), ammo companies are MORE than happy to replace your gun, replace your ammo, and probably anything else within reason to make you happy and stay out of court.

 

[a6m5]

I don't know about Fiocchi, being imported, but what I've heard from this sort of stuff (and my own experience with that 300BLK squib round), ammo companies are MORE than happy to replace your gun, replace your ammo, and probably anything else within reason to make you happy and stay out of court.

It'd be nice should that be the case. Amount of injuries I received were no worse than if I tripped & fell, so if they replaced my gun, I'd consider it fully compensated. When I'll be back in business, shooting for fun is a whole other matter.

 

[Crash]

Ever since the incident, I've been second guessing everything firearms related from ammo, firearms, approach to the hobby, self-defense, etc., etc. My attitude has gone from "wow, it'd be great if I could shoot everyday" to wanting to shoot the absolute minimum. It sounds paranoid, but I think it's just human nature. I hope I get over it, but if one could truly imagine the firearm exploding in their hands, I think they'd understand where I'm coming from. It's terrifying.[/scarred for life]

I completely understand where you're coming from, and it's hard to get back into it when something traumatic happens, but everything that we do, every hobby, involves a degree of risk, and often the riskier, the more fun it is. You can't go and be completely hermit yourself away from it all. This incident is definitely a crazy exception, and not the rule, so don't let this deter you from keep shooting in the future.

Edit: I put together the puzzle to create this exploded view(pun intended).

From the pictures, looks like it failed at the breech, i.e. the force there destroyed the gun. With a failure there, that seems to indicate that the round exploded with too much pressure when the firing pin hit the primer. The pressure transferred from the overloaded the locked breech towards the back at a downward angle until the crack was turned as it meets the back of the grip.

 

[a6m5]

Edit: What a relief. While I'm still going to wait to see what the ammunition manufacturer say, then HK, I just realized that if you are an NRA member, if you activate it, you do have free firearms insurance upto $2,500. Worst case scenario, I can fall back on the good ole' NRA. 👍

I completely understand where you're coming from, and it's hard to get back into it when something traumatic happens, but everything that we do, every hobby, involves a degree of risk, and often the riskier, the more fun it is. You can't go and be completely hermit yourself away from it all. This incident is definitely a crazy exception, and not the rule, so don't let this deter you from keep shooting in the future.

To be honest, initially, the thought did cross my mind going "do I want to shoot a gun ever again?". While I definitely see myself slowing down, maybe WAY down, I do fully plan on getting back on the horse eventually. I am already looking into protective gloves, maybe a motorcycle helmet something to give me bit more confidence & peace of mind when shooting.

From the pictures, looks like it failed at the breech, i.e. the force there destroyed the gun. With a failure there, that seems to indicate that the round exploded with too much pressure when the firing pin hit the primer. The pressure transferred from the overloaded the locked breech towards the back at a downward angle until the crack was turned as it meets the back of the grip.

Again, I'm in no way qualified, but that's how it seems to me too.

 

[Eric.]

I wouldn't fall back on the NRA for this. Its the ammo manufacturer's fault, don't let them tell you anything different without sending them the ruptured casing and whatever else they request.