Real Guns
- Thread starter Calibretto
- 8,880 comments
- 476,742 views
- 38,944
- Application hell
- MP-Omnis
I'm pretty much dialed in now.
The lower middle target is at 50 yards, then the rest are at 100. Shot the top middle first and dialed 1 MOA to the right which put me pretty much on midline. The rest is just variance from holding hand-held resting the magazine on the bench. I should get a large beanbag thing. After I ran out of XM193 I just shot the rest of the targets with my crappy wolf ammo. The ones that are way outside of the circles are me actually aiming at the borders of the page to make sure the windage was correct. By the time I was shooting wolf I couldn't really tell where the groups were, but I'm happy with the windage fo' sho'.
The lower middle target is at 50 yards, then the rest are at 100. Shot the top middle first and dialed 1 MOA to the right which put me pretty much on midline. The rest is just variance from holding hand-held resting the magazine on the bench. I should get a large beanbag thing. After I ran out of XM193 I just shot the rest of the targets with my crappy wolf ammo. The ones that are way outside of the circles are me actually aiming at the borders of the page to make sure the windage was correct. By the time I was shooting wolf I couldn't really tell where the groups were, but I'm happy with the windage fo' sho'.
- 2,123
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
I know I'd be surprised if 9mm carbine were noticeably louder.
Well, last Friday, I did end up going shooting with the guy I used to work with. He's one of those guys who's really retired, but works convenient hours at job, that's like a hobby(in this case, gun shop). He's always been loaded, but OMG, his gun collection has grown since he started working at the store. He showed me so many firearms, I can't remember them all.
East side of the town(never shot on this side, not counting ranges), up in the mountains. Closed off on weekends, likely due to shooters with bad manners, so we had to go on a Friday.
First, guns I took plinking were my two new rifles; TCR22 & M&P Sport 2. TCR22, the 10/22 copy was just amazing. Fun, accurate & flawless. Same with the M&P, just perfect. EOTech red dot was quick & easy to sight in. I'm in love with both my purchases.
So my buddy's guns I got to try. First one was the Sig 556 rifle. It looked like AK meets AR. Folding stock was cool, but it shot lot like AR.
Closest picture I found on Google to the gun I shot.
One I've been interested in & forgot that he had was the FN Five Seven. Shot like a pumped up .22, not much recoil. Pretty cool gun. I don't know about $1,000, but very cool. One other notable one was a Magnum Research 10/22 rifle in .22 Win Mag. First time I shot .22 Win Mag. That was another caliber I've been interested in. This rifle was so stout I thought it was a hunting rifle when I first saw it, not a 10/22!
It was a fun day, even visited the shop he works at. They only carry the high-end stuff, so that was very interesting. Only down side was:
1) I finally destroyed my favorite target.
2) Rain was dumping & I was dumb enough to leave my ammo can open, so I had to dry the leftovers.
That's my report.
Well, last Friday, I did end up going shooting with the guy I used to work with. He's one of those guys who's really retired, but works convenient hours at job, that's like a hobby(in this case, gun shop). He's always been loaded, but OMG, his gun collection has grown since he started working at the store. He showed me so many firearms, I can't remember them all.
East side of the town(never shot on this side, not counting ranges), up in the mountains. Closed off on weekends, likely due to shooters with bad manners, so we had to go on a Friday.
First, guns I took plinking were my two new rifles; TCR22 & M&P Sport 2. TCR22, the 10/22 copy was just amazing. Fun, accurate & flawless. Same with the M&P, just perfect. EOTech red dot was quick & easy to sight in. I'm in love with both my purchases.
So my buddy's guns I got to try. First one was the Sig 556 rifle. It looked like AK meets AR. Folding stock was cool, but it shot lot like AR.
Closest picture I found on Google to the gun I shot.
One I've been interested in & forgot that he had was the FN Five Seven. Shot like a pumped up .22, not much recoil. Pretty cool gun. I don't know about $1,000, but very cool. One other notable one was a Magnum Research 10/22 rifle in .22 Win Mag. First time I shot .22 Win Mag. That was another caliber I've been interested in. This rifle was so stout I thought it was a hunting rifle when I first saw it, not a 10/22!
It was a fun day, even visited the shop he works at. They only carry the high-end stuff, so that was very interesting. Only down side was:
1) I finally destroyed my favorite target.
Before:
After:
I do have a new one on the way. lol
After:
I do have a new one on the way. lol
2) Rain was dumping & I was dumb enough to leave my ammo can open, so I had to dry the leftovers.
That's my report.
- 5,212
- Nicest part of hell
Those are quite popular around here, in Austria. Not sure why though, but I know several people who have camp carbine in 9x19 and some in .45acp.Marlin Model 9 Camp Carbine. I couldn't pass it up when I saw it
A lot of fun, they feel like upscaled Ruger 10/22's both in appearance and power.
- 5,212
- Nicest part of hell
Bad luck strikes again! 
So I bought the .308 hog hunter Savage in .308, put a nice scope on it, put it into a varminter stock with aluminum bedding, made really good hand loads - and it does not shoot. At all. In fact it is so bad there must be a mechanical problem with the rifle, its not just mere inaccuracy.
When I thought I had sighted it in it would shoot three shot in a nice group the size of under 1 inch and the next two shots to complete the group would print somewhere on the target, like 5 inches off the other three shots. Then when I try shoot a new group the rifle is way off so I have to adjust the scope again only to repeat the same crap again. First I thought the scope was damaged so I switched it out with a Leupold which I know works. Same thing. I glued the picatinny rail onto the receiver to rule out movement - no change. After every group I carefully checked the tightness of the receiver mounting screws - all nice and tight. I switched to totally different ammo - same thing. I removed the muzzle brake - the problem got even worse. The barrel is free floated, the bedding is good, I have no idea whats going on. But whatever it is, it must be severe.
I thought I lost my ability to shoot, so I brought my 107 year old Swiss G11 and shot it at 100 meters, all in all it shot better than my scoped rifle. A pre- WW1 iron-sighted wooden-stocked rifle beating a scoped precision rifle from 2017 with match grade ammunition.
5 Shot at 100 meters, a little high because I had to compensate for a 300 meter min sight. All groups were about the size of a poker card, and I didn't even try hard.
So I bought the .308 hog hunter Savage in .308, put a nice scope on it, put it into a varminter stock with aluminum bedding, made really good hand loads - and it does not shoot. At all. In fact it is so bad there must be a mechanical problem with the rifle, its not just mere inaccuracy.When I thought I had sighted it in it would shoot three shot in a nice group the size of under 1 inch and the next two shots to complete the group would print somewhere on the target, like 5 inches off the other three shots. Then when I try shoot a new group the rifle is way off so I have to adjust the scope again only to repeat the same crap again. First I thought the scope was damaged so I switched it out with a Leupold which I know works. Same thing. I glued the picatinny rail onto the receiver to rule out movement - no change. After every group I carefully checked the tightness of the receiver mounting screws - all nice and tight. I switched to totally different ammo - same thing. I removed the muzzle brake - the problem got even worse. The barrel is free floated, the bedding is good, I have no idea whats going on. But whatever it is, it must be severe.
I thought I lost my ability to shoot, so I brought my 107 year old Swiss G11 and shot it at 100 meters, all in all it shot better than my scoped rifle. A pre- WW1 iron-sighted wooden-stocked rifle beating a scoped precision rifle from 2017 with match grade ammunition.
5 Shot at 100 meters, a little high because I had to compensate for a 300 meter min sight. All groups were about the size of a poker card, and I didn't even try hard.
GTP_Remo
Premium
- 809
- Michigan
- remo_of_oz
Bad luck strikes again!
When I thought I had sighted it in it would shoot three shot in a nice group the size of under 1 inch and the next two shots to complete the group would print somewhere on the target, like 5 inches off the other three shots. Then when I try shoot a new group the rifle is way off so I have to adjust the scope again only to repeat the same crap again. First I thought the scope was damaged so I switched it out with a Leupold which I know works. Same thing. I glued the picatinny rail onto the receiver to rule out movement - no change. After every group I carefully checked the tightness of the receiver mounting screws - all nice and tight. I switched to totally different ammo - same thing. I removed the muzzle brake - the problem got even worse. The barrel is free floated, the bedding is good, I have no idea whats going on. But whatever it is, it must be severe.
I thought I lost my ability to shoot, so I brought my 107 year old Swiss G11 and shot it at 100 meters, all in all it shot better than my scoped rifle. A pre- WW1 iron-sighted wooden-stocked rifle beating a scoped precision rifle from 2017 with match grade ammunition.
5 Shot at 100 meters, a little high because I had to compensate for a 300 meter min sight. All groups were about the size of a poker card, and I didn't even try hard.
Bad crown? Wonky chamber?
- 2,123
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
My first thought was something being wrong with the scope, scope rings or base but you've ruled all of that out. I wonder if there is something wrong with the rifling?
- 5,212
- Nicest part of hell
Crown looks good to me, no burrs, looks concentric. Thats usually the first thing I check out when I have weird accuracy problems that is not caused by loosening hardware.
I doubt there is something wrong with the rifling, looking through the bore everything looks good, the twist is ok as well. And if there was something wrong every bullet would encounter the same problem and his would not necessarily harm accuracy.
If its a wonky chamber - no idea. I noticed some slightly sticky brass every now and then even though my ammunition is well within the specs (I let the proof-house test it) , but brass does not seem to grow a lot and resizes easily. But of course I have no idea if its concentric to the bore or to the bolt face, I have no way of measuring that accurately.
Also whats really weird is that trying out different ammunition results in a massive point of impact change. We all know that when you shoot different ammo out of our rifles it will change the point of impact by an inch or up to three at 100 meters, thats normal, but there is at least a 10 inch separation between the ''groups'' of Sierra Matchkings and 155 grain A-Max loaded with the same powder, brass and primer, ammo which shoots really well of all other rifles I know.
I've been shooting precision rifles for over 12 years now and this totally puzzles me. Something is messed up badly in this rifle.
Last edited:
Obelisk
Premium
- 9,779
- United States
- RMedia_Obelisk
This might be a strange suggestion, but why don't you try filming the action of the gun in slow mo? I.E. have a friend turn on your phone's slow mo (assuming a more recent Android or iPhone) and watch the action. There might be some flexing somewhere that isn't readily apparent.Crown looks good to me, no burrs, looks concentric. Thats usually the first thing I check out when I have weird accuracy problems that is not caused by loosening hardware.
I doubt there is something wrong with the rifling, looking through the bore everything looks good, the twist is ok as well. And if there was something wrong every bullet would encounter the same problem and his would not necessarily harm accuracy.
If its a wonky chamber - no idea. I noticed some slightly sticky brass every now and then even though my ammunition is well within the specs (I let the proof-house test it) , but brass does not seem to grow a lot and resizes easily. But of course I have no idea if its concentric to the bore or to the bolt face, I have no way of measuring that accurately.
Also whats really weird is that trying out different ammunition results in a massive point of impact change. We all know that when you shoot different ammo out of our rifles it will change the point of impact by an inch or up to three at 100 meters, thats normal, but there is at least a 10 inch separation between the ''groups'' of Sierra Matchkings and 155 grain A-Max loaded with the same powder, brass and primer, ammo which shoots really well of all other rifles I know.
I've been shooting precision rifles for over 12 years now and this totally puzzles me. Something is messed up badly in this rifle.
- 5,212
- Nicest part of hell
That does not matter, every gun flexes a ton, even the scope, the only thing that matters is that it flexes the same every time, which it does unless something is wrong like screws loosening or changing the rifle rest. But in that case you identify spot the problem much more easily than analyzing slomo videos because there is only a handful of things that cause the gun to vibrate inconsistently. And I have basically ruled them all out.
- 5,212
- Nicest part of hell
The barrel not being true to the bolt face / vie versa could cause such problem, basically meaning the bolt face is at an angle to the barrel, but its very hard to measure that, we are talking about a few thousands here. This can cause tiny variations in how each individual cartridge is sitting in the chamber leading to rather big accuracy problems.
- 2,123
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
The moment your little brother comes to visit and says he wants to go to the shooting range .
.
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
Nobody would go with me today, but I went anyway. No mountain lion sighting, found a great new spot higher up in the elevation(same mountain we always go shoot), it was a good day.
This spot was great for plinking, but also the dirtiest site I've ever ran into. Spent casings & trash every-where. A-holes like this will get the area closed off, so nobody will be able to come up here to shoot anymore. I spent nearly half-an-hour picking up crap & it barely made a dent. 👎
Took my two new rifles with me. AR now has correct forward grip + attached the picatinny rail on the bottom of the handguard. THE reason why I had to come up here though was to play with my new .22 rifle. Finally got the style of rings I wanted(Leupold Rifleman). Both of these new guns performed flawlessly, again. As the previous owner of Remington 597, I am not used to rimfire not jamming brand new out of the box. Also, Ruger 10/22 magazines works perfectly with the TCR22(both 10 & banana mag), with the exception of the "bolt open" feature after the last round. You need the factory TCR22 magazines for that. 
Another cool thing about this site was there is this huge drop to the back, and these kids leaving trash everywhere, they set up targets like 100+ yards away in the middle of the field at the bottom.
Sniper targets! I should have shot them, too.
This spot was great for plinking, but also the dirtiest site I've ever ran into. Spent casings & trash every-where. A-holes like this will get the area closed off, so nobody will be able to come up here to shoot anymore. I spent nearly half-an-hour picking up crap & it barely made a dent. 👎
Took my two new rifles with me. AR now has correct forward grip + attached the picatinny rail on the bottom of the handguard. THE reason why I had to come up here though was to play with my new .22 rifle. Finally got the style of rings I wanted(Leupold Rifleman). Both of these new guns performed flawlessly, again. As the previous owner of Remington 597, I am not used to rimfire not jamming brand new out of the box.
Also, Ruger 10/22 magazines works perfectly with the TCR22(both 10 & banana mag), with the exception of the "bolt open" feature after the last round. You need the factory TCR22 magazines for that. Another cool thing about this site was there is this huge drop to the back, and these kids leaving trash everywhere, they set up targets like 100+ yards away in the middle of the field at the bottom.
Sniper targets! I should have shot them, too.
- 2,123
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
@a6m5 as much as I enjoy shooting with others, sometimes it is nice to have a solo range day. It allows me to focus more on what I'm trying to achieve for that specific visit i.e sighting-in an old or new firearm, working on marksmanship, etc.
I like shooting outdoors when the weather is nice but one of my biggest pet peeves is how messy other shooters leave the land. I'm not just talking about spent ammo casings but trash like shot up TVs and glass bottles. A side from the trash people leave for others to clean, I love shooting my steel target and setting up multiple paper targets (with homemade target stands) and running multiple engagement drills. I'm glad to hear that all is well with your two recent acquisitions. Do you have any more plans for your AR mods wise?
I like shooting outdoors when the weather is nice but one of my biggest pet peeves is how messy other shooters leave the land. I'm not just talking about spent ammo casings but trash like shot up TVs and glass bottles. A side from the trash people leave for others to clean, I love shooting my steel target and setting up multiple paper targets (with homemade target stands) and running multiple engagement drills. I'm glad to hear that all is well with your two recent acquisitions. Do you have any more plans for your AR mods wise?
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
At the range, sure, and I totally agree with you about being able to focus more on techniques. I love shooting in the woods, but increased number of people I run into up there *banjo music* + mountain lion makes me bit nervous. Especially that cat, as it's forcing me to carry a loaded Glock on me the entire time I'm up there.
Exactly! I don't claim to pick up all spent cases, as that seems impossible, but appliances, electronics are total bummer.
Drills sounds interesting, I'd like to try more of that. As for targets, right now, I'm into those rolling self healing targets. I've also replaced the spinning self-healing target I destroyed the other day.
I really want to try the metal targets soon. hickok45 amirite. That "ping" sound from the metal target's the best. Not right now. I do need couple more pieces of M-LOK picatinny rails for the AR + TCR22, but that's it. That & the slings. I might look for magnifier next year. Any recommended upgrades for AR?
- 2,123
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
@a6m5 firs and foremost I'm glad I wasn't eating or drinking anything while I was reading your post. Took me awhile to stop laughing at the "Banjo music" comment . I don't blame you because the only place I go shooting by myself is to a fully staffed gun range.
For steel targets I strongly recommend checking out shootsteel.com . I've had one of their 3/8" targets for a few years now and love it. It is easy to transport, assemble and disassemble, plus it handles up to .308/7.62x51.
For magnification doesn't Eotech have on for your red dot sight? Also, something else to consider is if you have enough rail space to add a magnifier. You may have to consider getting a different handguard with more rail space or switch to a 1-4X or 1-6X scope.
. I don't blame you because the only place I go shooting by myself is to a fully staffed gun range. For steel targets I strongly recommend checking out shootsteel.com . I've had one of their 3/8" targets for a few years now and love it. It is easy to transport, assemble and disassemble, plus it handles up to .308/7.62x51.
For magnification doesn't Eotech have on for your red dot sight? Also, something else to consider is if you have enough rail space to add a magnifier. You may have to consider getting a different handguard with more rail space or switch to a 1-4X or 1-6X scope.
- 26,628
- OREGON
- a6m5zero
Not that I had any negative experience there, but it is redneck/trailer trash country where we go.@a6m5 firs and foremost I'm glad I wasn't eating or drinking anything while I was reading your post. Took me awhile to stop laughing at the "Banjo music" comment
I definitely will. Thanks man. 👍
EOTech definitely does, but yeah, I also noticed how little space is available on the rail. I figured I'd have to lose the rear backup sight, but this is also something I need to research more.
At the range I used to go to, we never saw that, but most people were good about sweeping their space after they were done. I don't think I ever had negative experience with other people at the range, or in the woods. If people actually picked up what they brought in, when shooting in the woods.
- 5,212
- Nicest part of hell
So I got my rifle to shoot now, it shoots .5 MOA now!
I gave it a last chance, made some really good ammo and changed two things. First the rear receiver screw was kinda odd, I've always found it a little small in diameter and the thread was a little too short compared to the front receiver screw. Replaced it with an original screw which felt much better when I installed it. Also I removed the muzzle brake and got rid of the washer that holds the brake in place and got a proper beefy counter-nut which secures the muzzle brake very tightly. (The muzzle brake never got loose though, with the washer)
Well, now it shoots groups the size of my thumb nail at 110yds, with Sierra Matchkings, Hornady A-Max and about MOA with el cheap-o ammo.
Not sure what it was, but my bet is on the receiver screw. I think under firing the receiver was fishtailing a little due to the skinny rear screw. Not noticeable during tests but it probably did under firing.
I almost sold the rifle in a ragequit, started to doubt my shooting skills and my reloading skills. Don't let your emotions get the better of you, don't give up, stay rational and solve problems with logical thinking was this times lesson.
I gave it a last chance, made some really good ammo and changed two things. First the rear receiver screw was kinda odd, I've always found it a little small in diameter and the thread was a little too short compared to the front receiver screw. Replaced it with an original screw which felt much better when I installed it. Also I removed the muzzle brake and got rid of the washer that holds the brake in place and got a proper beefy counter-nut which secures the muzzle brake very tightly. (The muzzle brake never got loose though, with the washer)
Well, now it shoots groups the size of my thumb nail at 110yds, with Sierra Matchkings, Hornady A-Max and about MOA with el cheap-o ammo.
Not sure what it was, but my bet is on the receiver screw. I think under firing the receiver was fishtailing a little due to the skinny rear screw. Not noticeable during tests but it probably did under firing.
I almost sold the rifle in a ragequit, started to doubt my shooting skills and my reloading skills. Don't let your emotions get the better of you, don't give up, stay rational and solve problems with logical thinking was this times lesson.
Last edited:
- 2,123
- Arizona
- Thugnificent34
- Zeke34
@Michael88 I'm really glad to hear that it was a simple fix. It sucks that you had to go through all of that but hopefully your feedback to the manufacture will help improve quality control.
Do any of you guys have any experience with optics ready handguns? I'm not necessarily looking to purchase one right away but would like to start doing my research on a potential future purchase. I know about the Glock MOS lineup but would like to learn more about different options
Here is what I am looking for:
Do any of you guys have any experience with optics ready handguns? I'm not necessarily looking to purchase one right away but would like to start doing my research on a potential future purchase. I know about the Glock MOS lineup but would like to learn more about different options
Here is what I am looking for:
- Optics ready handgun
- 9mm
- Barrel length less than 4 inches
- Factory Magazine capacity greater than 15 rounds
Brett
Premium
- 8,632
- Oklahoma
My only experience with them is I have shot maybe a dozen shots with one; if I remember right, it was a Glock 34. I have put a Bushnell TRS 25 on my Ruger Mark IV 22/45, but have yet to make a trip to the range since doing so. The TRS 25 was not my first choice; however, for the price I paid, it will be fun to plink with.
Similar threads
