Real Guns

[Xavier2342]

That's awesome, what distance do you plan to sighting-in your red dot? It wasn't something I paid close attention until you mentioned it, but you're right. The Venom does have a slightly wider lens.

 

[Michael88]

That's awesome, what distance do you plan to sighting-in your red dot? It wasn't something I paid close attention until you mentioned it, but you're right. The Venom does have a slightly wider lens.

I will probably sight it in at 25yds, that's the max handgun range distance I have access to. That will probably make me hit 1.5'' low or so at close ranges but that's ok.

The much harder question is which Glock to install the red dot on! Initially I bought it to put it on my G17 since it has a compensator and I'm planning on trying various conversion shoulder stocks with it - but this pistol is currently at the gunsmith to be ceracoated and its gonna take a while till I get it back, 6 weeks or more, easily.

Now I have my G41 .45 sitting here and the more I think about putting a dot on this longslide .45 the more I like it. I don't think I will be able to resist the temptation till I get my G17 back. Problem is, once I get it installed, screws tightened with Loctite and dot sighted in I don't think I will take it off again to install the irons and do another sight-in.

 

[Xavier2342]

I will probably sight it in at 25yds, that's the max handgun range distance I have access to. That will probably make me hit 1.5'' low or so at close ranges but that's ok.

The much harder question is which Glock to install the red dot on! Initially I bought it to put it on my G17 since it has a compensator and I'm planning on trying various conversion shoulder stocks with it - but this pistol is currently at the gunsmith to be ceracoated and its gonna take a while till I get it back, 6 weeks or more, easily.

Now I have my G41 .45 sitting here and the more I think about putting a dot on this longslide .45 the more I like it. I don't think I will be able to resist the temptation till I get my G17 back. Problem is, once I get it installed, screws tightened with Loctite and dot sighted in I don't think I will take it off again to install the irons and do another sight-in.

6 Weeks... Sounds like you're going to be buying a second red dot sight 😄.

 

[Michael88]

6 Weeks... Sounds like you're going to be buying a second red dot sight 😄.

I totally see that happening!

I just got my OuterImpact plate that goes into the rear sight dovetail and the red dot is installed on since my Glocks are not optics ready (and I'm not panning on getting the slide milled). Nifty piece, seems to be very high quality.

 

[Michael88]

Just got my Vortex Venom and now I am one of the cool kids!
Installation was very easy, I was afraid that I would need to do inletting on the dovetail insert piece but it fit perfectly into my Glock. One issue I had was the recommended screw torque settings, I have stripped a lot of screws in my life and I find the recommended torque is too high. Glued the screws into place, but only at about 80% torque recommended.

Have not sighted it in yet but my first impressions playing around with it - a dot on a pistol is AWESOME
I was afraid of all the things I read, that a red dot on a pistol makes sight picture super shaky, that you have to be extremely precise with the presentation of your the pistol, that it shows every little mistake you make while pressing the trigger etc. I can say that those concerns are seriously over-exaggerated but I do think that being an experienced pistol shooter already helps a lot. Most of my shooting is precision shooting at 25 meters and I think that helps a lot.
If you START with a dot on a pistol and you are still learning basics like clean trigger pulls and repeatable consistent presentations of your gun, recoil management or shooting at distances beyond 10yds you are going to have a hard time I think.

Also I'm happy I went with the 6 MOA dot, I read a lot about people preferring 2 MOA but I don't see it - I cannot imagine a dot 1/3 the size being any better than the 6, on the contrary.

And one more thing - I'm as fast with the dot as with iron sights. The dot seems to be slower but it isn't, I can acquire the irons faster, that's true, BUT the fraction of a second it takes actually aligning front and rear sight until sight picture is satisfactory for a proper shot is about about as long as finding the dot and taking a shot.

Here it is!

 

[Swagger897]

I have a vortex on my canik and it is by far the most accurate pistol I’ve ever shot in my life. Bought the two together used at a local gunshow for way undervalue - was a steal.

 

[Xavier2342]

Just got my Vortex Venom and now I am one of the cool kids!
Installation was very easy, I was afraid that I would need to do inletting on the dovetail insert piece but it fit perfectly into my Glock. One issue I had was the recommended screw torque settings, I have stripped a lot of screws in my life and I find the recommended torque is too high. Glued the screws into place, but only at about 80% torque recommended.

Have not sighted it in yet but my first impressions playing around with it - a dot on a pistol is AWESOME
I was afraid of all the things I read, that a red dot on a pistol makes sight picture super shaky, that you have to be extremely precise with the presentation of your the pistol, that it shows every little mistake you make while pressing the trigger etc. I can say that those concerns are seriously over-exaggerated but I do think that being an experienced pistol shooter already helps a lot. Most of my shooting is precision shooting at 25 meters and I think that helps a lot.
If you START with a dot on a pistol and you are still learning basics like clean trigger pulls and repeatable consistent presentations of your gun, recoil management or shooting at distances beyond 10yds you are going to have a hard time I think.

Also I'm happy I went with the 6 MOA dot, I read a lot about people preferring 2 MOA but I don't see it - I cannot imagine a dot 1/3 the size being any better than the 6, on the contrary.

And one more thing - I'm as fast with the dot as with iron sights. The dot seems to be slower but it isn't, I can acquire the irons faster, that's true, BUT the fraction of a second it takes actually aligning front and rear sight until sight picture is satisfactory for a proper shot is about about as long as finding the dot and taking a shot.

Here it is!

View attachment 1108010

Congrats on getting your red dot sight mounted. In regards to the torque specs I think you did the right thing (80% torque spec and thread locker). Just make sure to bring a torque wrench with you to the range in case the screws need a tightened a little bit more.

Whoever said a red dot sight makes your sight picture shaky probably has a potassium deficiency. In terms of movement, my sight picture with a red dot sight is no different than what I experience with iron sights. Put a laser on a handgun, now that is shaky 😄.

I agree with you 100% in regards to starting with a red dot sight versus iron sights in a pistol. Another advantage I see is being able to easily teach someone how get the proper sight picture.

I have a vortex on my canik and it is by far the most accurate pistol I’ve ever shot in my life. Bought the two together used at a local gunshow for way undervalue - was a steal.

That's pretty cool, do you have the full-size or compact Canik TP9? The triggers on those guns in general are 👌🏿.

 

[Xavier2342]

Before I begin, @a6m5 I apologize for recommending a holster I had no personal experience with. I also want to openly admit that I got the holster manufactures confused. I recently had a conversation with my buddy and "We Plead The 2nd" is the company he got his AIWB holster from not "We The People."

A few weeks ago I was having a conversation with one of the Police Officers at my job about carrying concealed while out on a motorcycle ride. After our conversation I began to look into left hand oriented holsters for my Smith & Wesson M&P Shield Gen 1. But then I felt like it was somewhat of a waste for me because I am right handed. So I did a search for ambidextrious holsters and came across Black Arch Holsters Rev-Con (Reversible Convertible Holster). Another option I came across (but completely forgot about) was the Tulster Oath IWB holster, which someone recently posted about not too long ago. Both holsters have great reviews online but I ultimately chose the Rev-Con because of its price. Another inexpensive option I saw earlier today while at the gun range was the Desantis Gunhide Slim-Tuk IWB holster.

Based upon the reviews I saw online, I chose to order the Rev-Con with a monoblock clip and wing attachment. The color I chose was free so I went with the OG tacticool color... OG Green 😄. Compared to the Arex I currently carry AIWB this holster is practically unnoticeable. I can sit on my motorcycle or in my car and not have to worry about constantly adjusting the holster to relief pelvic pressure. The Shield feels very secure in this holster and the holster tension is just enough to prevent the gun from falling out of the holster whem flipped upside down. The holster is optics ready, even though I do not have an optic on this pistol. Once on your belt, the monoblock clip is tight and keeps the holster from sliding along my belt. When I received my AIWB holster for the Arex, I thought I was done with carrying the Shield. But with the Rev-Con, I can easily switch the hand orientation to suit my needs for the day. Left hand orientation for motorcycle rides or right hand orientation for summer carry. I don't really have anything negative to say about this holster. But we'll see how things go moving forward.

 

[Swagger897]

Congrats on getting your red dot sight mounted. In regards to the torque specs I think you did the right thing (80% torque spec and thread locker). Just make sure to bring a torque wrench with you to the range in case the screws need a tightened a little bit more.

Whoever said a red dot sight makes your sight picture shaky probably has a potassium deficiency. In terms of movement, my sight picture with a red dot sight is no different than what I experience with iron sights. Put a laser on a handgun, now that is shaky 😄.

I agree with you 100% in regards to starting with a red dot sight versus iron sights in a pistol. Another advantage I see is being able to easily teach someone how get the proper sight picture.

That's pretty cool, do you have the full-size or compact Canik TP9? The triggers on those guns in general are 👌🏿.

Full size

 

[a6m5]

Before I begin, @a6m5 I apologize for recommending a holster I had no personal experience with. I also want to openly admit that I got the holster manufactures confused. I recently had a conversation with my buddy and "We Plead The 2nd" is the company he got his AIWB holster from not "We The People."

Honestly I remember so little of holster discussions we've had. Sorry. 😳😂 I'm not crazy about We the People's holster, but it's okay & holding up well.

I've shot very little last 3 months or so(snow + ammo cost). Zero activity on here, or the local gun message board.

I was in group text with my shooting buddies earlier though, and sounds like we may try getting together in couple of weeks. I think I shared my FN15 on here? $900 + fees. Nothing fancy. Entry model. I've sold M&P Sport II upper/PSA lower combo recently & Bushmaster 308 couple months ago.

I'd like to get something like a 308 again, but probably not anytime soon.

Actually, this is what started the group text with my guys. You guys might find it interesting, too:

 

[Michael88]

Congrats on getting your red dot sight mounted. In regards to the torque specs I think you did the right thing (80% torque spec and thread locker). Just make sure to bring a torque wrench with you to the range in case the screws need a tightened a little bit more.

Whoever said a red dot sight makes your sight picture shaky probably has a potassium deficiency. In terms of movement, my sight picture with a red dot sight is no different than what I experience with iron sights. Put a laser on a handgun, now that is shaky 😄.

Oh yeah I agree absolutely, no lasers, not even on rifles, ever! Tried a laser on a handgun once, I felt like I had Parkinson's during an earthquake while being high on caffeine. I'm less shaky when I deadlift 530lbs while holding my breath.

But I'm really pleasantly surprised by the red dot, it really is significantly better than irons. Yesterday I practiced acquiring the dot from low ready position a couple hundred times - from now on I will practice it every day when I sit in front of my computer or the TV.

 

[Michael88]

Today I sighted in my Vortex Venom and I absolutely loved it. Now shooting the gun finding the dot was such a non-issue its hard to believe that it IS an issue for some shooters. Even with hot 230 grain .45 ACP the dot immediately appeared after the shot, I had absolutely no problem shooting the gun as quickly as with irons, and more accurately as well. In about 100 rounds I shot I never had a ''where is my dot...ah there it is'' situation.

Shot this super fast at 12 yds, the two hits at 8 o'clock were just two bad trigger pulls, if you are sloppy with the Glock you go low-left and I felt that I was off when the shots broke. But that's like two magazines right in the center, last couple rounds tore away the middle.




I'm totally going to get me another red dot and install it on my G17 when I get it back.

 

[Brett]

I need to get my 48 slide milled for a dot.

 

[a6m5]

I need to get my 48 slide milled for a dot.

How much would something like that cost?

 

[Michael88]

I need to get my 48 slide milled for a dot.

Do you absolutely need the iron sights? Otherwise get an outer-impact plate, it places the dot only marginally higher than a milled slide and with the plate you don't need any milling. I use one since my Glock is not an MOS version; today I shot 100 rounds .45ACP and didn't need to even tighten any screws.

@a6m5 I heard milling is around 150-200 bucks

 

[Brett]

How much would something like that cost?

Do you absolutely need the iron sights? Otherwise get an outer-impact plate, it places the dot only marginally higher than a milled slide and with the plate you don't need any milling. I use one since my Glock is not an MOS version; today I shot 100 rounds .45ACP and didn't need to even tighten any screws.

@a6m5 I heard milling is around 150-200 bucks

That price is probably pretty accurate.

I would not necessarily need the iron sights. If I were to not add a red dot to the pistol, then I would definitely be looking into replacing the iron sights. Factory Glock iron sights are not great. The front sight is fine, but the rear sight is not good.

 

[Michael88]

That price is probably pretty accurate.

I would not necessarily need the iron sights. If I were to not add a red dot to the pistol, then I would definitely be looking into replacing the iron sights. Factory Glock iron sights are not great. The front sight is fine, but the rear sight is not good.

I agree, the factory Glock sights are plastic trash, they should have corrected that years ago. I have L.P.A fiber optic sights on my Glock 17 and I can highly recommend them. They are extremely rugged, made from steel, rear sight is windage and elevation adjustable and the fiber optics make them very visible in low light conditions. Check them out if you can - http://www.lpasights.com/en/products/ttf36gl/

 

[Brett]

I agree, the factory Glock sights are plastic trash, they should have corrected that years ago. I have L.P.A fiber optic sights on my Glock 17 and I can highly recommend them. They are extremely rugged, made from steel, rear sight is windage and elevation adjustable and the fiber optics make them very visible in low light conditions. Check them out if you can - http://www.lpasights.com/en/products/ttf36gl/

How do you like the fibers in the rear sight? My CZ-75 has a fiber front sight and serrated blacked out rear sight. I did not know if I would like it , but after using it, I like it quite a bit.

 

[Michael88]

How do you like the fibers in the rear sight? My CZ-75 has a fiber front sight and serrated blacked out rear sight. I did not know if I would like it , but after using it, I like it quite a bit.

A lot - since they have a different color than the front post they give me an excellent three-dot sight picture when its really dark, and when the lighting conditions are good the rear sight actually makes a decent target sight. My 1911 has just a black rear sight and it gets fuzzy quick when it gets darker later in the day.

 

[Brett]

I need to get my 48 slide milled for a dot.

What I should really do is buy another 48, but a 48 MOS.

 

[Michael88]

What I should really do is buy another 48, but a 48 MOS.

Just get that adapter plate, it costs 50 bucks or so, goes into the rear sight dovetail, its rock solid and the dot is still mounted very low. Also it is drilled & tapped for all the common red dot footprints. You can get Trijicons, Vortex, Sightmarks etc. You're not stuck on just one manufacturer.

 

[Xavier2342]

@a6m5 although you don't plan on getting a 308 anytime soon, what are you considering for the future?

@Brett I think you're better off keeping your Glock 48 and spending $50 on the plate. I say this because I'm assuming that you already have a sight removal tool and have no intentions of purchasing aftermarket iron sights. However, if you're able to sell you it and get what you paid for it, then Glock 48 MOS all the way.

 

[a6m5]

@a6m5 although you don't plan on getting a 308 anytime soon, what are you considering for the future?

I liked the Bushmaster, but there were couple of things I didn't like about it. One of them was the 16" barrel. Another was when I was shopping for longer barrel, there was a question about compatibility with other uppers. Unlike with AR-15, interchangeability was lacking with different designs of AR-10's out there.

I see myself getting another rifle like AR-10 down the line, but since almost everybody I know buys bolt-actions, I may go that direction? Either way, it won't happen anytime soon. There isn't any place accessible for me to shoot at longer range. I ordered a Ford Bronco at the end of last year, so when it's finally delivered..... in 2023 😭 I'll be able to drive on bad roads & probably start getting interested in something that shoots farther than a AR-15 then.

 

[Michael88]

@Brett I think you're better off keeping your Glock 48 and spending $50 on the plate. I say this because I'm assuming that you already have a sight removal tool and have no intentions of purchasing aftermarket iron sights. However, if you're able to sell you it and get what you paid for it, then Glock 48 MOS all the way.

You don't even need a sight removal tool for that. The way I do it is spraying the sight and dovetail down with WD40, clamping the slide into a vice (using wooden spacers not to damage the frame) and then carefully tapping the sight out of the dovetail with an empty .223 brass case and a hammer. That's done in 5 minutes. The original plastic rear sight got damaged in the process, but its disposable junk anyway. Any proper sight can be removed without damage using this method.

 

[Brett]

@Brett I think you're better off keeping your Glock 48 and spending $50 on the plate. I say this because I'm assuming that you already have a sight removal tool and have no intentions of purchasing aftermarket iron sights. However, if you're able to sell you it and get what you paid for it, then Glock 48 MOS all the way.

I actually do not have a sight removal tool. I also do not have a vice. I really need to buy more tools.

 

[Michael88]

I actually do not have a sight removal tool. I also do not have a vice. I really need to buy more tool

When I started shooting I had like two screwdrivers and a powerdrill, now I have a small workshop, lol.

If you are serious about this hobby you definitely need some tools unless you want to leave tons of money at the gunsmith and wait lots. Things you definitely need is a set of good brass drive pins, a heavy duty vice, a set of Torx, Allen and TorxPlus bits, a set of really high quality flat head screwdrivers, a watchmakers screwdriver kit, a set of pliers, a hammer, a small brass hammer, a good a set of needle files, a drill press with a bunch of steel bits, a big flat steel file, Loctite and a torch. That's IMO pretty much what you need to do the most basic repairs and modifications on guns, like installing a side mounting plate on an AK, inletting a muzzle brake or fixing stuck/Stripped screws etc.

 

[Xavier2342]

I liked the Bushmaster, but there were couple of things I didn't like about it. One of them was the 16" barrel. Another was when I was shopping for longer barrel, there was a question about compatibility with other uppers. Unlike with AR-15, interchangeability was lacking with different designs of AR-10's out there.

I see myself getting another rifle like AR-10 down the line, but since almost everybody I know buys bolt-actions, I may go that direction? Either way, it won't happen anytime soon. There isn't any place accessible for me to shoot at longer range. I ordered a Ford Bronco at the end of last year, so when it's finally delivered..... in 2023 😭 I'll be able to drive on bad roads & probably start getting interested in something that shoots farther than a AR-15 then.

Dude congrats on ordering the Bronco, which trim package did you get? I haven't looked too far into the AR10 platform but it sucks that parts aren't as interchangeable on that platform like the AR15. In regards to the bolt actions, do your friends hunt and/or shoot long range? Either way, I think you'll like the Bergara B14-HMR.

Edit: people like to say your scope should twice as much as your rifle. I don't necessarily agree with that. But you can always purchase a previous generation $1,000 scope at 1/2 off from Euro Optic.

Rifles, Scopes, Laser Rangefinders, and So Much More - EuroOptic.com

Optics, scopes, & more for the precision marksman and serious hunter - Nightforce, Swarovski Optik, Vortex, Sako, Leica, Blaser, Tikka, Trijicon, & many more.

www.eurooptic.com

Edit #2: Arken Optics is another good option.

Home Page

Explore our extensive range of Arken optics, scopes, mounts, rings, and accessories, all designed to perform with rugged precision.

www.arkenopticsusa.com

@Michael88 I have only watched videos of people removing rear sights. But knowing my luck I would somehow manage to break something .

 

[a6m5]

When I started shooting I had like two screwdrivers and a powerdrill, now I have a small workshop, lol.

OMG man. Cars & guns. 😂

Dude congrats on ordering the Bronco, which trim package did you get?

Thank you. I could only afford the 3dr base. Bronco has big following now, but I wasn't even a fan before ordering one. I actually wanted a truck, but they easily cost few thousands more, and bang for the buck is not even comparable.

Base doesn't have lockers, but I plan on upgrading tires immediately.

I haven't looked too far into the AR10 platform but it sucks that parts aren't as interchangeable on that platform like the AR15. In regards to the bolt actions, do your friends hunt and/or shoot long range? Either way, I think you'll like the Bergara B14-HMR.

Hunters are using old, old hunting rifles. My gun friends, they are all target shooters. They are always trying to find somewhere to shoot long distance.

Just googled Bergara rifle. That's pretty sweet dude. I had never heard of it. 👍

Edit: people like to say your scope should twice as much as your rifle. I don't necessarily agree with that. But you can always purchase a previous generation $1,000 scope at 1/2 off from Euro Optic.

Euro Optics has lot of scopes. Holy cow. I'll try to keep them in mind. 👍

 

[Xavier2342]

The Bergara is a rifle I found out about shortly after I got into long range shooting. I got a chance to shoot one with a suppressor years ago, but I wasn't fully aware of what it was. Some time in the future I would like get a 300 Win Mag. What is appealing to me about the B-14 HMR is the fact that it is a dual purpose rifle. Although it weighs 9 lbs without scope, it is a durable rifle you can either hunt or do some recreational long range shooting with.

I came across Euro Optics through Gun.deals when I was shopping for a scope to mount onto my Savage. I got lucky and found a brand new 1st gen Vortex Viper PST first focal plane scope on their website literally for 1/2 off MSRP. Depending on what scope you're looking for, Optics Planet and Botach often have some good deals but I believe Euro Optics has them beat.

 

[Michael88]

Also check out the HOWA 1500, which is also sold under the brand name Weatherby Vanguard. Its a Japanese manufactured rifle which is super popular around here since they have amazing accuracy and good triggers out of the box, they're just really well made, especially the barrels. And they don't break the bank, they usually cost around 800 bucks. Also, there is a lot of aftermarket parts available for them, there is a tons of chassis stocks for them. I have yet to see a HOWA that does not shoot .75 MOA or better, usually they shoot around half MOA with good ammo.

The Bergaras are awesome too, I think they are just as good but they have one downside - they have nearly no aftermarket parts available. You're stuck with the stock and everything they come with. With the HOWA you can play around a lot with aftermarket stuff.
If that does no matter to you that point is mood, you'll have a great time with both, and both are amazing out of the box.

There is also Savage, but I kind of think they are no longer the best bang for the buck. They have good actions and also very good accuracy out of the box and there is a LOOOT of aftermarket parts available for them, but I think, compared to Bergara and HOWA their finishing isn't as nice and their barrels are weird. According to my experiences they have really good accuracy but they burn out really fast. I had a .300 Winchester Magnum Savage which I shot very carefully, but the bore was done after about 900-1000 rounds. Usually a . 300WM barrel should last 1500-1900 shots easily. But at 900 shots the forcing cone looked like sandblasted and I got flyers.