Real Guns

[Obelisk]

Figured I'd share this unedited footage of me with an M249. Been meaning to finish that range video up and upload it in full, but this was the highlight of this.

 

[Obelisk]

Video dump time!

I got my JC Higgins/Sears 103-13 back from the gunsmith today and got to go shooting, and forgot for a moment that it's an 85 year old rifle. Jammed it by being a bit too rough with it. Learned my lesson, though! I love this gun - nice, clean trigger break and zeroed in super nicely at 25-50 feet. The bolt isn't quite as smooth as hoped, but then again...old gun that was rusted over when I got it. I'm happy, and definitely have a new plinker.


I've also been trying to get range time with my .25 ACP Sterling to really try and figure out how to get accurate shot placement from it. Getting better, but not really certain yet as to the "secret" with this gun.


And the last post had me shooting an M249. Here's the entire day at the range.

 

[BloodRaven]

Hopefully will be going to the range with a friend, tomorrow. I haven't been in quite a while. I still need to do some work dialing in my bolt action rifle scope. It's close, but could be better.

 

[Michael88]

Video dump time!

I got my JC Higgins/Sears 103-13 back from the gunsmith today and got to go shooting, and forgot for a moment that it's an 85 year old rifle. Jammed it by being a bit too rough with it. Learned my lesson, though! I love this gun - nice, clean trigger break and zeroed in super nicely at 25-50 feet. The bolt isn't quite as smooth as hoped, but then again...old gun that was rusted over when I got it. I'm happy, and definitely have a new plinker.

Has anyone ever told you that you sound a little like Peter Griffin from Family Guy?

Nice shooting man, that Thompson was especially cool, I have always liked it. Full Auto .45 ACP, sweet!


As for my gun stuff, I bought an ergo-grip for my precision rifle. Boy they have become expensive around here, 90 bucks for a piece of plastic. But they are so comfortable, and comfort while shooting aids accuracy.

 

[Michael88]

So a case ruptured after only one loading, which is pretty odd. This is an indicator of hard brittle brass, which usually only becomes a problem after you load a rifle case a couple times work-hardening the brass.



So I took my blowtorch, put the brass into my stationary drill press and annealed a couple dozen pcs. of that particular lot. I like how they turned out. Necks and shoulders are MUCH softer now and splitting should no longer be a problem.

 

[Michael88]

So, just wondering, does anyone of you have a SIG P320? How does it run?

 

[Xavier2342]

So, just wondering, does anyone of you have a SIG P320? How does it run?

I don't own any but I have shot a few. I can't comment about their reliability because I didn't put that many rounds through them. In all honesty I feel like the P320 is overhyped and there are other equally priced or less expensive handguns on the market that have better triggers, grip texture, aftermarket support, etc. If you're thinking about purchasing one I think toubwould be better off with another Glock. I say this because you (yourself) historically tend to have better luck with Glocks.

 

[Michael88]

I say this because you (yourself) historically tend to have better luck with Glocks.

Though I had to give all my Glocks aftermarket barrels since their original barrels started to disintegrate on me after only 800 rounds!

Just thinking about the Sig, I got a permit for a new handgun (or semi auto rifle) and was browsing the store - got my hands on a SIG 320 M18 and it felt really nice in my hands and the trigger was also good. Love the tan finish. Don't know anybody who owns a 320 though.

I'm definitely NOT going to buy another Glock, I love mine but I don't feel like buying another replacement barrel and honestly, I absolutely need something other than a Glock this time, something completely new.

If I could have any gun I'd get a FN FNX tactical in .45ACP but that gun (FN in general) is impossible to get here. That's probably my dream polymer frame pistol.
Hammer-fired, double & single action, MOS cut, keeps rear sight with dot installed, comes with a threaded barrel, manual safety and it just looks right.

 

[Xavier2342]

Though I had to give all my Glocks aftermarket barrels since their original barrels started to disintegrate on me after only 800 rounds!

Just thinking about the Sig, I got a permit for a new handgun (or semi auto rifle) and was browsing the store - got my hands on a SIG 320 M18 and it felt really nice in my hands and the trigger was also good. Love the tan finish. Don't know anybody who owns a 320 though.

I'm definitely NOT going to buy another Glock, I love mine but I don't feel like buying another replacement barrel and honestly, I absolutely need something other than a Glock this time, something completely new.

If I could have any gun I'd get a FN FNX tactical in .45ACP but that gun (FN in general) is impossible to get here. That's probably my dream polymer frame pistol.
Hammer-fired, double & single action, MOS cut, keeps rear sight with dot installed, comes with a threaded barrel, manual safety and it just looks right.

View attachment 1183695

Try to rent a Sig P320 (M17 or M18) at your local gun range to get a better feel for the firearm. If this isn't an option, maybe you could find someone at your local gun range that would be willing to let you shoot theirs.

I love the FNX-45 Tactical and wouldn't mind owning one some day. It would have been awesome if they made a tactical equivalent 9mm, but I guess the FN 509 Tactical sort of fills that niche. The basic FNX-45 is equally as good as the FNX-45 Tactical, despite not not having an optic mount and threaded barrel. To my knowledge everything else is the same between the two versions of this firearm.

I don't know how common these guns are out there, but have you considered a Shadow Systems XR920? I haven't shot one yet, but I hear good things about them.

 

[Michael88]

I don't know how common these guns are out there, but have you considered a Shadow Systems XR920? I haven't shot one yet, but I hear good things about them.

Yeah I have seen a couple of those in stores around here, I've never considered those because they are very expensive and seem just like tuned Glocks, and I have enough Glocks already. In fact, I don't like their busy look at all and vastly prefer the look of stock Glocks over them. Tastes just differ I guess.

I have not shot a P320 yet, but I handled and played around with a P320 M18 for 10 minutes and the grip fit like a glove, I liked the trigger, the balance and the looks as well - and most importantly, front and rear sight were perfectly aligned when I pointed the gun from low ready - the one thing I really dislike about my Glocks, they don't point as natural with my hands. No big deal with training but its still not perfect.
I think I have gotten extremely straight 90° wrists/palms from all the heavy bench pressing, overhead pressing and deadlifting, a near vertical grip fits me better.

That's why I'm interested in the P320 series.

I've also heard only good things about the P320 Vtac, maybe another option to consider.



There is also another really really interesting pistol, the CZ P-07. What sets it apart from the other pistols it is a hammer fired polymer handgun with DA/SA plus a decocker. Thats awesome, makes it a great potential carry option and SA gives it a better trigger than pretty much all its competitors. There is only one huge drawback - I think its BUTT UGLY.
No matter from what angle I look at it, its just plain ugly, a cheap plastic toygun ugliness that simply cannot be overcome.

 

[Xavier2342]

Yeah I have seen a couple of those in stores around here, I've never considered those because they are very expensive and seem just like tuned Glocks, and I have enough Glocks already. In fact, I don't like their busy look at all and vastly prefer the look of stock Glocks over them. Tastes just differ I guess.

I have not shot a P320 yet, but I handled and played around with a P320 M18 for 10 minutes and the grip fit like a glove, I liked the trigger, the balance and the looks as well - and most importantly, front and rear sight were perfectly aligned when I pointed the gun from low ready - the one thing I really dislike about my Glocks, they don't point as natural with my hands. No big deal with training but its still not perfect.
I think I have gotten extremely straight 90° wrists/palms from all the heavy bench pressing, overhead pressing and deadlifting, a near vertical grip fits me better.

That's why I'm interested in the P320 series.

I've also heard only good things about the P320 Vtac, maybe another option to consider.

View attachment 1183941

There is also another really really interesting pistol, the CZ P-07. What sets it apart from the other pistols it is a hammer fired polymer handgun with DA/SA plus a decocker. Thats awesome, makes it a great potential carry option and SA gives it a better trigger than pretty much all its competitors. There is only one huge drawback - I think its BUTT UGLY.
No matter from what angle I look at it, its just plain ugly, a cheap plastic toygun ugliness that simply cannot be overcome.

View attachment 1183943

... I really like the CZ P-07 but I prefer the tactical version. The biggest gripe I have with that gun is having to choose between a safety or decocker as opposed to having both like the FN FNX platform.

It sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind and will be getting a P320. There are so many different variants of the P320 platform, which one do you intend on purchasing?

 

[Michael88]

... I really like the CZ P-07 but I prefer the tactical version. The biggest gripe I have with that gun is having to choose between a safety or decocker as opposed to having both like the FN FNX platform.

Oh that would be an easy choice for me, I'd go with the decocker! IMO you definitely don't need a safety on a SA/DA action gun with an external hammer.- Unless you intend to carry it hammer cocked, but that would defeat the sweet double action feature.

Heck, the Tacticool version of the P07 is actually pretty cool - but its not cut for a dot?

It sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind and will be getting a P320. There are so many different variants of the P320 platform, which one do you intend on purchasing?

I'm still totally unsure, but the SIG P320 is just a favorite right now. I like the M18 4'' Sig P320 in tan, but it has a safety and I'm not sure if thats a good or a bad thing. I'm used to Glocks so I'd have to practice a LOT to get used to it which is bad, but the P320 does not have a trigger safety and unlike the Glock it is not partially but fully cocked so maybe the external safety IS a good thing on that gun.

In any case, I really want a GOOD looking gun. You may laugh and say aesthetics are not important but I think they are - good looking guns make me happy, I take them to the shooting range more often which will result in more training and that makes me a better shot. Butt-ugly guns seriously dampens my motivation to take them to the range and they will be left behind.

Oh and I may get the chance to get an FN 509 tactical, there is an importer who is going to get a batch of FN products pretty soon. But it would cost me 1400 bucks. Not sure if its worth that much money.

 

[Xavier2342]

Oh that would be an easy choice for me, I'd go with the decocker! IMO you definitely don't need a safety on a SA/DA action gun with an external hammer.- Unless you intend to carry it hammer cocked, but that would defeat the sweet double action feature.

Heck, the Tacticool version of the P07 is actually pretty cool - but its not cut for a dot?

I'm still totally unsure, but the SIG P320 is just a favorite right now. I like the M18 4'' Sig P320 in tan, but it has a safety and I'm not sure if thats a good or a bad thing. I'm used to Glocks so I'd have to practice a LOT to get used to it which is bad, but the P320 does not have a trigger safety and unlike the Glock it is not partially but fully cocked so maybe the external safety IS a good thing on that gun.

In any case, I really want a GOOD looking gun. You may laugh and say aesthetics are not important but I think they are - good looking guns make me happy, I take them to the shooting range more often which will result in more training and that makes me a better shot. Butt-ugly guns seriously dampens my motivation to take them to the range and they will be left behind.

Oh and I may get the chance to get an FN 509 tactical, there is an importer who is going to get a batch of FN products pretty soon. But it would cost me 1400 bucks. Not sure if its worth that much money.

To my knowledge (or lack thereof) the CZ P-07 was not offered in an optics ready model. But for an additional expense there are companies out there that will cut your slide for an optic of your choice.



Fortunately you are actually able to remove the safety on the P320. I don't know a lot about the P320 platform but considering what you mentioned about not having a trigger safety. Maybe you might be better off purchasing a fire control group and dropping it into a P320 frame of you choice.




$1,400 for a FN 509 Tactical, yeah that is expensive. I enjoyed shooting this gun but I see people all over Youtube complaining about the trigger on this gun. I don't recall it being terrible, but maybe the one I rented already had an Apex trigger. The next time I'm at the indoor range I will try to rent one if it is available. For conversation purposes, here's a video showing how to install an Apex trigger for a FN 509 Tactical.




@Obelisk I just re-watched the videos you posted of your gun range visit. Dude you chose a very nice selection of guns to shoot 👍.

 

[Michael88]

To my knowledge (or lack thereof) the CZ P-07 was not offered in an optics ready model. But for an additional expense there are companies out there that will cut your slide for an optic of your choice.

Fortunately you are actually able to remove the safety on the P320. I don't know a lot about the P320 platform but considering what you mentioned about not having a trigger safety. Maybe you might be better off purchasing a fire control group and dropping it into a P320 frame of you choice.

$1,400 for a FN 509 Tactical, yeah that is expensive. I enjoyed shooting this gun but I see people all over Youtube complaining about the trigger on this gun. I don't recall it being terrible, but maybe the one I rented already had an Apex trigger. The next time I'm at the indoor range I will try to rent one if it is available. For conversation purposes, here's a video showing how to install an Apex trigger for a FN 509 Tactical.

Wow, I had no idea the P320's safety was removable - its very good to know that should the safety bug me too much I have a way out. Excellent.

As for the 509 tactical, I heard all sorts of opinions about the trigger so I don't really know what to believe - I heard everything from way better than a Glock to absolutely terrible and inconsistent. I know I can swap the trigger but that's another 200 bucks on top of a 1400 € gun. And I'd have to replace the striker assembly with an Apex kit as well since there are some reports of strikers breaking after a couple thousand rounds. And that's another 75 bucks. Add two more mags for 70 or so each and I'm at 1800+.

I'm pretty sure with the fixes the FN 509 is a better quality gun than the P320 M17/18, the question is if I want to pay 1800 bucks for the whole package. That would mean pumping my bank account absolutely dry, for a 9mm handgun. I can get the P320 M17 for 800 around here, and I could get a plain P320 compact for 600 I think.

Decisions!


Oh, BTW, shot this with my precision rifle today, at 100 meters 5 shots, my new handloads.- They seem to work!
The funny thing is, both targets were shot with the same bullet, same OAL and same powder charge, same primers but the brass cases were from different manufacturers. Shows that you absolutely cannot use mixed brass for long range work.




And yes, I did one click to the right after the session, hehe.

 

[Xavier2342]

Wow, I had no idea the P320's safety was removable - its very good to know that should the safety bug me too much I have a way out. Excellent.

As for the 509 tactical, I heard all sorts of opinions about the trigger so I don't really know what to believe - I heard everything from way better than a Glock to absolutely terrible and inconsistent. I know I can swap the trigger but that's another 200 bucks on top of a 1400 € gun. And I'd have to replace the striker assembly with an Apex kit as well since there are some reports of strikers breaking after a couple thousand rounds. And that's another 75 bucks. Add two more mags for 70 or so each and I'm at 1800+.

I'm pretty sure with the fixes the FN 509 is a better quality gun than the P320 M17/18, the question is if I want to pay 1800 bucks for the whole package. That would mean pumping my bank account absolutely dry, for a 9mm handgun. I can get the P320 M17 for 800 around here, and I could get a plain P320 compact for 600 I think.

Decisions!


Oh, BTW, shot this with my precision rifle today, at 100 meters 5 shots, my new handloads.- They seem to work!
The funny thing is, both targets were shot with the same bullet, same OAL and same powder charge, same primers but the brass cases were from different manufacturers. Shows that you absolutely cannot use mixed brass for long range work.


View attachment 1185041 View attachment 1185042

And yes, I did one click to the right after the session, hehe.

Looking back at the post I made a few years ago about the FN F09 Tactical I rented, that gun did in fact have an Apex trigger. Considering what it would cost you to purchase the a FN 509 Tactical and added cost of installing an Apex trigger, I don't think it is worth it. If I am going to spend that kind of money on a handgun, it better come out of the box with a very nice trigger pull.

The beauty about the P320 platform is the ability to take the fire control unit (FCU) out of a full-size frame and legally put it into a compact frame because the FCU is the only serialized part of the P320 platform. In regards to M17 versus compact P320, you're better off waiting for your gun store to receive another shipment of M18 pistols since it is the model I believe you may want. Even though you're able to purchase different size frames from Brownells for the P320, I don't think it is worth investing more money into the platform until you shoot it and decide if you like it or not.

 

[Obelisk]

Just got back from the range! I took the JC Higgins back out to get some more time with it, and I think my grouping is getting better! 25 ft paper and 50 ft paper:

And I think my shooting form is getting better. It's kinda hard learning to be precise and smooth with an 85 year old rifle, but certainly a worthwhile experience.



I'm more impressed that this gun is still as accurate as it is for something that spent a couple of decades collecting dust and grime in a closet, and having seen a few decades of use before that.

Edit: I ran out of .25 ACP at my last visit and I'm not sure how soon I can find more boxes of it...

 

[Michael88]

Looking back at the post I made a few years ago about the FN F09 Tactical I rented, that gun did in fact have an Apex trigger. Considering what it would cost you to purchase the a FN 509 Tactical and added cost of installing an Apex trigger, I don't think it is worth it. If I am going to spend that kind of money on a handgun, it better come out of the box with a very nice trigger pull.

The beauty about the P320 platform is the ability to take the fire control unit (FCU) out of a full-size frame and legally put it into a compact frame because the FCU is the only serialized part of the P320 platform. In regards to M17 versus compact P320, you're better off waiting for your gun store to receive another shipment of M18 pistols since it is the model I believe you may want. Even though you're able to purchase different size frames from Brownells for the P320, I don't think it is worth investing more money into the platform until you shoot it and decide if you like it or not.

Yes the M18 is definitely the SIG I'm looking at the hardest right now, my gun store has 5 of them and I played around with one a lot and it felt great. I shortly considered the fullsize M17 and the x-five or vtac which have 5'' barrels and slightly heavier (tungsten infused) grips, but then I realized I already have a fullsize and a longslide pistol, adding a compact 4'' pistol would fill that niche very nicely.

Also, the rifle stock for the P320 looks really nice, the one you drop the trigger pack and slide on and turns into PCC. (We don't have SBR laws so no issues here)

One thing that is holding me back from driving to the store and picking up the M18 is that the importer said he could get a normal black non-tactical 4'' FN 509 in a matter of days no problem, for the same price as the P320.
Its black, no optics cut, no threaded barrel. I'd still have to get the new trigger (probably) but in the end I'd spend around a grand.

That one:

 

[Xavier2342]

@Obelisk that JC Higgins genuinely looks like it is fun to shoot.

Yes the M18 is definitely the SIG I'm looking at the hardest right now, my gun store has 5 of them and I played around with one a lot and it felt great. I shortly considered the fullsize M17 and the x-five or vtac which have 5'' barrels and slightly heavier (tungsten infused) grips, but then I realized I already have a fullsize and a longslide pistol, adding a compact 4'' pistol would fill that niche very nicely.

Also, the rifle stock for the P320 looks really nice, the one you drop the trigger pack and slide on and turns into PCC. (We don't have SBR laws so no issues here)

One thing that is holding me back from driving to the store and picking up the M18 is that the importer said he could get a normal black non-tactical 4'' FN 509 in a matter of days no problem, for the same price as the P320.
Its black, no optics cut, no threaded barrel. I'd still have to get the new trigger (probably) but in the end I'd spend around a grand.

That one:

View attachment 1185122

Decisions decisions... Although I had more fun shooting the FN 509 Tactical, in this situation I think the M18 wins. To some extent I feel like this is an apples to orange comparison because the M18 is already optics ready and comes from the factory with one 17-round magazine and two 21-round magazines for the same price as the FN 509. The FN 509 would be a cool gun to own but considering what it would cost to make it have the same features as the M18, you're better off purchasing the tactical version.

 

[Xavier2342]

Last year I watched a friend of mine compete in the Tactical Games. This year, I signed up and competed in the Men's Intermediate division. My goals for this match were to not get disqualified (DQ), try my best to finish every stage and have a good time. I didn't care about how I ranked amongst other competitors. Because at the end of the day, my main goal was to have a good time. I was very nervous about this match primarily because I did not want to disappoint all of my family and friends who support me in all of my endeavors. Luckily, I succeeded at achieving two of the three goals I set for myself. I ran out of time to compete two out of the six stages we competed in. But I did not get disqualified and I had a good time.

Every stage had a barricade for us to shoot through. Pistol targets were 10 yards away and rifle targets were 50 yards away. This may sound easy but bear in mind that hit areas for the targets were small and trying to make those hits with an elevated heart rate and work of breathing was no easy task. Here are a few pics of the barricades.

This event was by far the most challenging I have done in years. I unfortunately injured my hamstring in the Aggregate (tie-breaker) stage for the final day of the event. But I thank God because by then I only had one stage left to complete. Even though I could not run well, I could still walk fairly quickly. My last stage of the entire event was stage 4 "A-tension at Arms." You'll see me hobble in the video, but I was able to complete that stage within the time limit set for that particular stage.

Going into this match my mindet was this would be the first and last time I compete in the Tactical Games. After I completed my last stage of the match, my mom, my wife and mother-in-law all said I should compete next year. A few hours after getting home from the match I began to think about potentially competing again next year. I began to think about what I wanted to do differently in regards to preparation and most importantly, would I enjoy competing again. I came to the conclusion that I would like to compete again next year however, I would have 4 to 6 months of Crossfit training before the match. I say this because an overwhelming majority of the exercises we did in the match were Crossfit based. I currently weight train at Planet Fitness three days per week then either do 45 minute Peloton rides or run 2-3 miles twice a week. I don't see a way I can do Crossfit based high intensity interval training (HIIT) at Planet Fitness without getting kicked out. So it looks like I'll be joing a Crossfit gym some time next year in preparation for the Tactical Games.

Below are videos of the stages we had to complete. It was hot that entire weekend and my GoPro HERO 10 kept overheating. I have the stages listed in numerical order, but the order in which our heat completed the stages were 2,3,1,5,6 then 4. Hope you guys enjoy.

Stage 1


Stage 2


Stage 3


Stage 4


Stage 5


Stage 6
https://youtu.be/NL9HpiiIZ4Y

 

[Brett]

Last year I watched a friend of mine compete in the Tactical Games. This year, I signed up and competed in the Men's Intermediate division. My goals for this match were to not get disqualified (DQ), try my best to finish every stage and have a good time. I didn't care about how I ranked amongst other competitors. Because at the end of the day, my main goal was to have a good time. I was very nervous about this match primarily because I did not want to disappoint all of my family and friends who support me in all of my endeavors. Luckily, I succeeded at achieving two of the three goals I set for myself. I ran out of time to compete two out of the six stages we competed in. But I did not get disqualified and I had a good time.

Every stage had a barricade for us to shoot through. Pistol targets were 10 yards away and rifle targets were 50 yards away. This may sound easy but bear in mind that hit areas for the targets were small and trying to make those hits with an elevated heart rate and work of breathing was no easy task. Here are a few pics of the barricades.

View attachment 1195854View attachment 1195855View attachment 1195856

This event was by far the most challenging I have done in years. I unfortunately injured my hamstring in the Aggregate (tie-breaker) stage for the final day of the event. But I thank God because by then I only had one stage left to complete. Even though I could not run well, I could still walk fairly quickly. My last stage of the entire event was stage 4 "A-tension at Arms." You'll see me hobble in the video, but I was able to complete that stage within the time limit set for that particular stage.

Going into this match my mindet was this would be the first and last time I compete in the Tactical Games. After I completed my last stage of the match, my mom, my wife and mother-in-law all said I should compete next year. A few hours after getting home from the match I began to think about potentially competing again next year. I began to think about what I wanted to do differently in regards to preparation and most importantly, would I enjoy competing again. I came to the conclusion that I would like to compete again next year however, I would have 4 to 6 months of Crossfit training before the match. I say this because an overwhelming majority of the exercises we did in the match were Crossfit based. I currently weight train at Planet Fitness three days per week then either do 45 minute Peloton rides or run 2-3 miles twice a week. I don't see a way I can do Crossfit based high intensity interval training (HIIT) at Planet Fitness without getting kicked out. So it looks like I'll be joing a Crossfit gym some time next year in preparation for the Tactical Games.

Below are videos of the stages we had to complete. It was hot that entire weekend and my GoPro HERO 10 kept overheating. I have the stages listed in numerical order, but the order in which our heat completed the stages were 2,3,1,5,6 then 4. Hope you guys enjoy.

Stage 1


Stage 2


Stage 3


Stage 4


Stage 5


Stage 6
https://youtu.be/NL9HpiiIZ4Y

Not sure how close you are to Tucson, but Pima Pistol Club hosts 2 Gun Action Challenge Matches every month on the third Saturday. I have watched enough videos from InRange, Forgotten Weapons, and Sinistral Rifleman at those matches that they look like a good time.

 

[Xavier2342]

Not sure how close you are to Tucson, but Pima Pistol Club hosts 2 Gun Action Challenge Matches every month on the third Saturday. I have watched enough videos from InRange, Forgotten Weapons, and Sinistral Rifleman at those matches that they look like a good time.

Are these the matches they show themselves throwing kettlebells and so forth? If so, I may have to seriously look into attending one of their matches down there. I am only 2 hrs away.

 

[Brett]

Are these the matches they show themselves throwing kettlebells and so forth? If so, I may have to seriously look into attending one of their matches down there. I am only 2 hrs away.

The 2 Gun Action Challenge matches do have kettlebells at times. However, they tend to be less demanding than their yearly Desert Brutality match, but still physically oriented.

 

[Xavier2342]

The 2 Gun Action Challenge matches do have kettlebells at times. However, they tend to be less demanding than their yearly Desert Brutality match, but still physically oriented.

Thanks for the heads-up, I completely forgot about their 2-Gun Action Challenge matches and Desert Brutality.

 

[Xavier2342]

Early today I went to the range to do some long range shooting with some friends of mine. The weather was a nice 81 °F (27 °C) and fairly calm wind speed. We shot out to 1,036 yards (approximately 947.32 meters) and I was able to land a few shots with the Federal 185 gr Gold Medal Berger 308 Win ammo. Even though I was fortunate enough to land a few shots, I was inconsistent. I have looked into taking a long range shooting classes and the quantity of ammo required for these courses is entirely too expensive for me. I really want to improve me consistency. Do any of you guys have any recommendations?

 

[Michael88]

Early today I went to the range to do some long range shooting with some friends of mine. The weather was a nice 81 °F (27 °C) and fairly calm wind speed. We shot out to 1,036 yards (approximately 947.32 meters) and I was able to land a few shots with the Federal 185 gr Gold Medal Berger 308 Win ammo. Even though I was fortunate enough to land a few shots, I was inconsistent. I have looked into taking a long range shooting classes and the quantity of ammo required for these courses is entirely too expensive for me. I really want to improve me consistency. Do any of you guys have any recommendations?

Its an extreme distance for .308. Even though it is still supersonic at that distance, wind will affect it a lot hence the inconsistency. At a 1000 meters there is going to be several crosswinds from different directions, so the only thing you can do is to get a caliber that covers that distance faster so wind has less time to push the bullet around, resulting in more consistency at very long ranges. In other words, switching to 7mmPRC, 7mmRUM, .300PRC, .300WinMag, 338RUM/LM etc.

Or you could stick with the .308 and limit your shooting to ~ 750 meters. Remember, shooting 1000 meters and more is more of a sport challenge and less practical shooting. It really depends on what you are trying to achieve.

In any case, have you grouped that ammo & gun combination at 100 meters? If the load is not super accurate and consistent to begin with, or produces flyers every now and then, it will be very inconsistent at 1000. If you go for 1000 the load should do half MOA at 100 with every group you shoot.

 

[Xavier2342]

Its an extreme distance for .308. Even though it is still supersonic at that distance, wind will affect it a lot hence the inconsistency. At a 1000 meters there is going to be several crosswinds from different directions, so the only thing you can do is to get a caliber that covers that distance faster so wind has less time to push the bullet around, resulting in more consistency at very long ranges. In other words, switching to 7mmPRC, 7mmRUM, .300PRC, .300WinMag, 338RUM/LM etc.

Or you could stick with the .308 and limit your shooting to ~ 750 meters. Remember, shooting 1000 meters and more is more of a sport challenge and less practical shooting. It really depends on what you are trying to achieve.

In any case, have you grouped that ammo & gun combination at 100 meters? If the load is not super accurate and consistent to begin with, or produces flyers every now and then, it will be very inconsistent at 1000. If you go for 1000 the load should do half MOA at 100 with every group you shoot.

You're absolutely right, I keep forgetting to take into consideration the limitations of .308 Win. Over the past few months I have been tossing around the idea of getting a .300 Win Mag. My Savage 110 Tactical has been awesome and helped me achieve my goal of hitting a target 1,000 yards away. But you're right, I think it is time to switch to something bigger.

It has been awhile since I have shot <200 meters with the 185 gr Berger Jugernaught OTM. But the last time I zeroed it at 100 yards (91.44 meters), I believe the grouping was right at 1 MOA if not less. That ammo is awesome and I'm grateful for the fact that you recommended it to me.

 

[Obelisk]

Could you guys recommend some good .22? I feel like the stuff I have is losing accuracy with age on top of me not being as good as I used to be. Good, consistent ammo would go a long way in helping me properly zero in on what I'm getting wrong stance/aiming wise.

 

[Xavier2342]

Could you guys recommend some good .22? I feel like the stuff I have is losing accuracy with age on top of me not being as good as I used to be. Good, consistent ammo would go a long way in helping me properly zero in on what I'm getting wrong stance/aiming wise.

I don't have any recommendations from personal experience. But hopefully the video below can help.

 

[Michael88]

You're absolutely right, I keep forgetting to take into consideration the limitations of .308 Win. Over the past few months I have been tossing around the idea of getting a .300 Win Mag. My Savage 110 Tactical has been awesome and helped me achieve my goal of hitting a target 1,000 yards away. But you're right, I think it is time to switch to something bigger.

It has been awhile since I have shot <200 meters with the 185 gr Berger Jugernaught OTM. But the last time I zeroed it at 100 yards (91.44 meters), I believe the grouping was right at 1 MOA if not less. That ammo is awesome and I'm grateful for the fact that you recommended it to me.

Check out the.300PRC round, it is a better cartridge since it does not have a belt like the 300WM, more capacity and a better neck. Most manufacturers offer a rifle in that caliber, its becoming popular fast.

If I were shooting at 1000 regularly I would get me a custom built .338 edge, that's a .300 RUM necked up to .338. with a 34'' barrel and a good brake.
That would shoot like a freaking laser out to 1000 no matter the winds - and could easily reach 1500m.

 

[Xavier2342]

Check out the.300PRC round, it is a better cartridge since it does not have a belt like the 300WM, more capacity and a better neck. Most manufacturers offer a rifle in that caliber, its becoming popular fast.

If I were shooting at 1000 regularly I would get me a custom built .338 edge, that's a .300 RUM necked up to .338. with a 34'' barrel and a good brake.
That would shoot like a freaking laser out to 1000 no matter the winds - and could easily reach 1500m.

300 PRC would be awesome, but unfortunately I haven't seen that ammo on any of the shelves at the local outdoor retailers. I've seen a lot of 300 PRC rifles on display for sale, but the ammo has essentially been non-existant. I have found boxes of the ammo online (which is a good thing). But I wish the ammo was locally available a little more often. For my use and ammo availability (locally) 300 Win Mag seems to be the better choice. We'll see what happens within the next few months after I finish taking care of a few things for my Evo 9. I really like the ballistics and cost per round for the 300 PRC especially when compared to 338 Lapua.