Real Guns

[Zenith]

Looters during Sandy. Another great reminder why "Assault Weapons" are extremely important for personal safety.

 

[a6m5]

I just shot one of my reloads using a rope for the trigger and some pillows to catch the recoiling gun. I hid behind a wooden wall several meters away. The gun didn't blow up and no signs of overpressure on the brass!
And the 240 grain bullet did 1900 fp/s! That. Is. Hot. Remember, a commercial 44 does about 1300 out of a pistol and 1700 out of a rifle.


Don't worry, ''if you're gonna be dumb you gotta be tough.'' I'm very tough.

👍

And actually, how you finally shot your load is comical in itself, but I don't blame you. That is some scary powerful stuff.

Just stay on top of it. Caution-caution-caution, but I'm sure you have very diligent approach to these things already. 👍

P.S. I wanted to quote some of the interesting stuff I was reading about the Wolf Ammo on Widipedia:

Current Events

In 2005/2006, there was a shortage of 7.62x39mm ammunition in the United States. This had the effect of causing prices to almost double in some cases and Wolf's ammo to nearly disappear from the U.S. market in late 2006-early 2007. The ammunition shortage was due to Russian production lines struggling to fill a massive order placed by the United States to supply the fledgling Afghan army.[1] Even so, Wolf's 7.62x39mm is available in standard full-metal-jacket configuration, as well as hollow point and soft point bullet loads suitable for hunting.
In 2007/2008, supplies of Wolf steel cased .308 ammunition became increasingly rare, and major distributors were completely sold out.[citation needed] This, along with diminishing supplies of military surplus 7.62x51mm NATO had driven .308 Winchester prices to an all time high. This shortage is exacerbated by the strain of filling the Afghan Army order. As Wolf catches up with demand, new supplies will become available in the United States. When these new supplies hit the market, it is unknown how much the prices will have increased.
In 2010/2011, Wolf discontinued the use of the red sealant used around the primer and case neck intended to keep moisture out and prolong shelf life. They received too many complaints from end users of a build up from the red sealant on their firearms thus all new ammo produced from both plants will no longer have any red sealant.

Potential Problems with Wolf Ammunition

Lacquer coating

Wolf no longer manufactures ammunition with a lacquer coating on the cartridge casing due to issues concerning lacquer-coated steel cartridges becoming stuck in the chamber of a firearm after firing, with difficulty in ejecting the spent cartridge afterwards. This appears to be more of a problem with cartridges with narrowly tapering walls (e.g. .223 Remington) than those with rather steep case walls such as 7.62x39 mm cartridges or pistol ammunition. This also does not seem to pose much of a problem for Soviet or East Bloc designed weapons that tend to have looser chamber clearances than Western designed weapons.
Tests have shown that steel-cased Wolf cases do not obturate sufficiently to form a good gas seal against the chamber [2] when compared to brass-cased ammunition. As a result, when Wolf cartridges are fired, some of the combustion by-products are deposited between the case and the chamber, causing a build up of carbon that is well in excess of normal. Firing a brass case (that does expand fully) after using Wolf ammunition can result in the brass case being "glued" into the chamber by the carbon buildup. This issue has nothing to do with the lacquer coating vaporising or melting, as has mistakenly been suggested. The problem is one of carbon deposition, which creates the same end result (i.e.; a stuck cartridge that has jammed in the chamber). It is important to emphasise that Wolf ammunition is perfectly safe to use because it conforms to all SAAMI standards. However, it is recommended that firearms are thoroughly cleaned after using Wolf ammunition due to the increased rate of carbon build-up within the chamber. As mentioned in the previous paragraph, the looser chamber dimensions of Soviet designed weapons allow for more room during firing and extraction. Soviet or East Bloc weapons do not experience these problems.
Note: all ammunition currently manufactured by Wolf has polymer-coated or brass cartridge cases and any obturation problems have been radically reduced.

Steel-jacketed bullets

Not only the cases of Wolf rifle ammo are steel. Most of Wolf's rifle cartridges use steel jacketed bullets, though they look like copper jacketed. The copper exterior of the bullet is only about .005 inch thick, (about twice the thickness of a sheet of paper) with a steel jacket underneath about 1/32 inch thick. Only the cartridges in the yellow and black boxes have real copper jackets. The core of the steel jacketed bullets, sometimes marked "bimetal", are lead. Some rifle ranges have started magnet testing shooter's ammunition to determine if bullets are steel jacketed. The steel is said to be more likely to ricochet, and also to cause sparks on impact, which can be a problem when shooting in dry grassland, or forest areas. In addition, a large majority of pistol ranges will not allow shooters to use Wolf, or other Russian ammunition types because of the steel jacket components on many of their products. An oft-cited reason for this is because they claim it damages the backstops. A more likely reason for not allowing steel-cased ammunition is that the ranges are unable to re-sell the berdan-primed steel cases for reloading, an important source of revenue for many ranges. link

Edit:

Looters during Sandy. Another great reminder why "Assault Weapons" are extremely important for personal safety.

I haven't followed the news. How bad is it? I always try to get my friends to buy guns, but often, they get a "no" from their husbands....... oh, my bad, their wives. lol I don't know how these people not at least have a shotgun in the household. I guess they just watch the local news, and think "that will never happen to my home."

 

[Zenith]

Wolf:
I couldn't be bothered to read it all, what I saw seemed to be true. I wouldn't worry a single bit about safety or the condition of your weapon when firing Wolf. I wouldn't take Wikipedia as the most trustworthy source on firearm facts. Firearms have a ton of misinformation out there, far more than automobiles, and the fact that you can't check to see who wrote the information on the Wiki is a (metaphorical) bullet in the brain for its credibility.

Looting:
I can't find any credible numbers, but every time there's a natural disaster or civil unrest looting becomes an epidemic.

 

[a6m5]

Wolf:
I couldn't be bothered to read it all, what I saw seemed to be true. I wouldn't worry a single bit about safety or the condition of your weapon when firing Wolf. I wouldn't take Wikipedia as the most trustworthy source on firearm facts. Firearms have a ton of misinformation out there, far more than automobiles, and the fact that you can't check to see who wrote the information on the Wiki is a (metaphorical) bullet in the brain for its credibility.

No, I agree, and wiki in this particular case was on the money regarding the steel casing. The title reads "potential problems", but you can tell that whoever wrote it tried hard to stay neutral. 👍

 

[Jedi2016]

Gun Free Zone... Texas style:

I took this photo myself, actually... at the office I work at.

 

[Quackjack]

Gun Free Zone... Texas style:

I took this photo myself, actually... at the office I work at.

This is possibly the only thing that pisses me off that my political party hates. Guns are not as dangerous as natural disaters and dieseses (when it comes to death totals) but noooo let's focus on guns when we could be funding other things.

 

[Zenith]

Gentlemen, I bring you....






... porn.

You'll have to excuse the stock music. I found it kind of annoying.

 

[a6m5]

.308 recoil is something else. I can't imagine firing that, full-auto and while standing up. I've yet to shoot mine standing up, actually.

Second video didn't really do a while lot for me, but I loved the slow motion of the .45 bouncing off metal target, in the biginning of the video. Very cool. 👍

I took this photo myself, actually... at the office I work at.

Only thing cooler than that would be to surprise the perpetrator with a gun in his face and go "konichiwa, sucker", then don't do this last part, because it's totally illegal, but blow his head off.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Gun Free Zone... Texas style:
*snip*
I took this photo myself, actually... at the office I work at.

Poor sign design. Drawing too detailed.

 

[a6m5]

I can't post this youtube video directly on here, as it contains handful of images that shows extreme injuries to the worst one showing this head that was blown off(I'm not kidding!), but if you are interested in yet another perspective on what different types of calibers & ammunition do to human body, I recommend checking this video out: 9mm vs .45 vs Rifle A Dr's View of Gunshot Wounds

5.56/.223 ballistics has fascinated me in the past, and if the claim made in this video(supposedly created for EMS personnel) is true, it makes total sense to me. Regardless, very interesting video.

Poor sign design. Drawing too detailed.

You mean you wanted something like this, this, but mostly more like this.

 

[Zenith]

Yeah, it was a very good insight for someone who doesn't do terminal ballistics for a living.

Using graphics is a great way to demonstrate the damage each kind of round does, even if it isn't for those with a weak stomach. For detailed info, look here.

http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91

 

[a6m5]

http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=91

Excellent, excellent page. After watching that youtube video, and reading a bit on .308 section of the ballistic page, my gun scares me.

P.S. How did you like the part they show the gelatin get hit by a .50, then pretty much disintegrate?

 

[Solid Lifters]

Excellent, excellent page. After watching that youtube video, and reading a bit on .308 section of the ballistic page, my gun scares me.

P.S. How did you like the part they show the gelatin get hit by a .50, then pretty much disintegrate?

That's what happens to humans, too.

 

[a6m5]

True dat.

Guns are all dangerous, but larger rifle calibers are just ridiculous.[/Obama]

Edit: Look what popped up on my local classifieds? Enfield Jungle Carbine

$250, and he says it comes with $100 worth of ammo. I'm not getting it, but that is so cool!

 

[Zenith]

P.S. How did you like the part they show the gelatin get hit by a .50, then pretty much disintegrate?

.50 cal is a ridiculous round. DocGKR had some very interesting points to make comparing the .338 Lapua to the .50. It's good to remember that the .50 was designed as an anti-materiel round. It can do sniping, but it really wasn't what it was meant for.

For long range anti-personel sniping, .338 Lap Mag has several advantages over most .50 BMG platforms, in particular the M82A1 and M107 Barrett semi-autos currently in use.

.338 Lap Mag systems are generally significantly more accurate than the M82A1 and M107.

.338 Lap Mag is easier to carry in the field, as most systems are half the weight of the .50 BMG Barrett.

Consideration should be given to emphasizing the anti-material role of the .50 BMG M82A1 and M107 rather than fantasizing about their dubious long range potential sniping capabilities, as the .50 BMG MK211 Raufoss HEIAP projectile is outstanding for this role!

Some SOF units have shortened the barrels of their Barrett semi-auto .50 BMG’s and are treating them as infantry portable “crew-served” anti-vehicle weapons, rather than as long range sniping weapons.

 

[a6m5]

It should go right through most cars like butter, I'd imagine. I wonder how much armor it could pierce.

 

[a6m5]

I'm leaning towards this scope for my rifle:

Nikon ProStaff 3~9x40 Riflescope

I think I want a ACOG scope, but I'm not sure if I'll ever shell out $1,000+ for a scope. Maybe someday, but definitely not today.

I also preferred Leupold, and might still go that way, but they cost considerably more than the Nikon, and I like Nikon's budget price + reputation a lot.

 

[Solid Lifters]

So, who's going to the gun store tomorrow to buy as many lower recievers as they'll allow?

 

[a6m5]

So, who's going to the gun store tomorrow to buy as many lower recievers as they'll allow?

👍

I kind of doubted either candidate had the pull, strength, or best interest of the nation in mind to do anything about anything, but one issue I knew that they could affect of course was the gun control/assault weapons ban.

I am so happy I got my "assault rifle" shopping done already.

 

[Michael88]

Well, looks like its time for round two!

 

[a6m5]

Well, looks like its time for round two!

Probably more like Assault Rifle/Hi-Capacity Magazine salesman of the year, this time around.

 

[Crash]

Guys, I don't buy into this whole Obama scare thing. He isn't going to (can't) control guns tighter than it already is now. All he can do is talk about it to satisfy the anti-gun folks.

To pass any legislation, he'll need House and Senate to pass his bills. The House is still solidly Republican, and the Senate is only held on to by Democrats because of the Blue Dog Democrats. Anti-gun legislation is just not going to make it.

I'm perfectly content in purchasing guns later, rather than immediately. Maybe by then everyone would have bought guns because they are scare of Obama, and demand would be lower than usual, allowing me to buy stuff on the cheap.

 

[Quackjack]

Exactly. Obama has better things to do than ban all guns

 

[Zenith]

I'm more worried about the demand for stuff rising. Regardless of whether Obama can pass an AWB, people think he will. They'll be buying up all the magazines and parts.

I'm not treating another AWB as a sure thing, but never underestimate snakes like Feinstein. Chances are we'll all have given the "Gun control is counterproductive" speech several times over the next few years as our friends are turned over to the dumb side.

 

[a6m5]

Well, so is it two years before the Congress play musical chairs? I guess we should be safe until then?

I agree that regardless, gun lobby gotta stay on top of that stuff!

Exactly. Obama has better things to do than ban all guns

I don't think he ever claim to ban all guns.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Guys, I don't buy into this whole Obama scare thing. He isn't going to (can't) control guns tighter than it already is now. All he can do is talk about it to satisfy the anti-gun folks.

To pass any legislation, he'll need House and Senate to pass his bills. The House is still solidly Republican, and the Senate is only held on to by Democrats because of the Blue Dog Democrats. Anti-gun legislation is just not going to make it.

I'm perfectly content in purchasing guns later, rather than immediately. Maybe by then everyone would have bought guns because they are scare of Obama, and demand would be lower than usual, allowing me to buy stuff on the cheap.

You don't seem to realize that Republicans are anti gun, too. Romney voted for the AWB ban and other anti gun legislation. Neither Ruplicans or Democrats can be trusted, but more so with Democrats.

It's no secret Obama wants to ban all guns like he did in his former district in Illinois. He would love to do the same for the nation. Not going to happen like how he wants, so I agree with you a little, but it's still something to be greatly concerned about. While having a senate position, Obama did the following:

• Obama voted for a bill that would ban nearly every hunting rifle, shotgun and target rifle owned by Illinois citizens. That same bill would authorize the state police to raid homes of gun owners to forcibly confiscate banned guns.
  
• Obama supported a bill that would shut down law-abiding firearm manufacturers including Springfield Armory, Armalite, Rock River Arms and Les Baer.
  
• Obama also voted for a bill that would prohibit law-abiding citizens from purchasing more than one gun per month.
  
• While a state senator, Obama voted 4 times against legislation that would allow a homeowner to use a firearm in defense of home and family (Illinois Senate, S.B. 2165, vote 20, 3/25/04).
  
• Made this comment: “I think it’s a scandal that this president [Bush] did not authorize a renewal of the assault weapons ban.”
  
• As a US Senator, Obama voted to ban almost all rifle ammunition commonly used for hunting and sport shooting (United States Senate, S. 397 vote 217, 7/29/05).
  
• Obama spent eight years (1994-2002) as a director of the Joyce Foundation, a billion dollar tax-exempt organization.The Joyce Foundation spent millions creating and supporting anti-gun organizations. “During Obama’s tenure, the Joyce Foundation board planned and implemented a program targeting the Supreme Court. The work began five years into Obama’s directorship, when the Foundation had experience in turning its millions into anti-gun “grassroots” organizations, but none at converting cash into legal scholarship.”The plan’s objective was bold: the judicial obliteration of the Second Amendment.
  
• Obama’s two Supreme Court nominees, Sonia Sotomayor and Elena Kagan are widely considered to be anti-second amendment. Sotomayor voted with the minority in the famous Heller decision. “Heller was a landmark case in which the Supreme Court of the United States held that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution protects an individual’s right to possess a firearm for traditionally lawful purposes in federal enclaves, such as self-defense within the home.”
  
• And here’s Obama’s own views on the D.C. gun ban: “Obama personally voiced support for the D.C. ban at other times. In February, Leon Harris, a news anchor for the ABC affiliate in Washington, said to Obama: “One other issue that’s of great importance here in the district as well is gun control … but you support the D.C. handgun ban.” Obama’s simple response: “Right.” When Harris added “and you’ve said that it’s constitutional,” Obama again said “right,” and he is clearly seen on tape nodding his head in agreement.”
  
• Opposes civilian concealed carry:
  I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry. — Mendell, David, “From Promise to Power” (2007), p. 251.
  I am not in favor of concealed weapons. I think that creates a potential atmosphere where more innocent people could (get shot during) altercations. — Pittsburg Tribune-Review (April 2, 2008).
  [Obama] backed federal legislation that would ban citizens from carrying weapons, except for law enforcement. He cited Texas as an example of a place where a law allowing people to carry weapons has “malfunctioned” because hundreds of people granted licenses had prior convictions. — — http://www.icadp.org/page236.html (Citing David Mendel, Chicago Tribune, February 20, 2004)

Let's also not forget his attempt to pass anti gun legislation 'under the radar' of the American people. Read below:

On March 30, the 30th anniversary of the assassination attempt on President Ronald Reagan, Jim Brady, who sustained a debilitating head wound in the attack, and his wife, Sarah, came to Capitol Hill to push for a ban on the controversial “large magazines.” Brady, for whom the law requiring background checks on handgun purchasers is named, then met with White House press secretary Jay Carney. During the meeting, President Obama dropped in and, according to Sarah Brady, brought up the issue of gun control, “to fill us in that it was very much on his agenda,” she said.

“I just want you to know that we are working on it,” Brady recalled the president telling them. “We have to go through a few processes, but under the radar.”

Below describes how the Obama administration is exploring ways to bypass Congress and enact gun control through executive action:

The Department of Justice reportedly is holding meetings discussing the White House’s options for enacting regulations on its own or through adjoining agencies and departments. “Administration officials said talk of executive orders or agency action are among a host of options that President Barack Obama and his advisers are considering. “

Don't forget Eric Holder and Obama’s botched Operation Fast & Furious was part of their “under the radar” plan to manufacture a gun crisis (US arms being trafficked to Mexican drug cartels) in order to crack down on legal gun sales and ownership in the United States.

So you see, while Romney is not completely 'pro gun,' Obama is much, much worse. There's something greatly to be feared with this bastard in office.

Exactly. Obama has better things to do than ban all guns

Mostly true. But, that doesn't mean he's not going to do it, now does it?

 

[a6m5]

Oh, god. I really wish Romney won now.

Obama voted for a bill that would ban nearly every hunting rifle, shotgun and target rifle owned by Illinois citizens. That same bill would authorize the state police to raid homes of gun owners to forcibly confiscate banned guns.

Is this right? I just find it unbelievable.

By my casual observation, State of Illinois & the City of Chicago is very radical on gun control, and I assume it is due to problems with gun violence?

They can not strip & destroy criminals, so their answer is to take guns away from people like you & me? Law abiding residents who owns firearms for recreation & self-defense? They will come to my house & forcibly confiscate my guns, but not from the criminals?

I just don't know which is dumber, their logic, or people who support it. Wow.

 

[Zenith]

By my casual observation, State of Illinois & the City of Chicago is very radical on gun control, and I assume it is due to problems with gun violence?

Other way around.

SL brings up some seriously important facts. I'm gunna look into it more.

 

[Solid Lifters]

Just read this: http://news.yahoo.com/obama-win-u-backs-u-n-arms-treaty-193445288.html

UNITED NATIONS (Reuters) - Hours after U.S. President Barack Obama was re-elected, the United States backed a U.N. committee's call on Wednesday to renew debate over a draft international treaty to regulate the $70 billion global conventional arms trade.

U.N. delegates and gun control activists have complained that talks collapsed in July largely because Obama feared attacks from Republican rival Mitt Romney if his administration was seen as supporting the pact, a charge Washington denies.

The month-long talks at U.N. headquarters broke off after the United States - along with Russia and other major arms producers - said it had problems with the draft treaty and asked for more time.

But the U.N. General Assembly's disarmament committee moved quickly after Obama's win to approve a resolution calling for a new round of talks March 18-28. It passed with 157 votes in favor, none against and 18 abstentions.

U.N. diplomats said the vote had been expected before Tuesday's U.S. presidential election but was delayed due to Superstorm Sandy, which caused a three-day closure of the United Nations last week.

An official at the U.S. mission said Washington's objectives have not changed.

"We seek a treaty that contributes to international security by fighting illicit arms trafficking and proliferation, protects the sovereign right of states to conduct legitimate arms trade, and meets the concerns that we have been articulating throughout," the official said.

"We will not accept any treaty that infringes on the constitutional rights of our citizens to bear arms," he said.

U.S. officials have acknowledged privately that the treaty under discussion would have no effect on domestic gun sales and ownership because it would apply only to exports.

The main reason the arms trade talks are taking place at all is that the United States - the world's biggest arms trader accounting for more than 40 percent of global conventional arms transfers - reversed U.S. policy on the issue after Obama was first elected and decided in 2009 to support a treaty.

'MONTHS AWAY' FROM DEAL?

Countries that abstained included Russia, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Sudan, Belarus, Cuba and Iran. China, a major arms producer that has traditionally abstained, voted in favor.

Among the top six arms-exporting nations, Russia cast the only abstention. Britain, France and Germany joined China and the United States in support of the resolution.The measure now goes to the 193-nation General Assembly for a formal vote. It is expected to pass.

The resolution said countries are "determined to build on the progress made to date towards the adoption of a strong, balanced and effective Arms Trade Treaty."

Jeff Abramson, director of Control Arms, a coalition of advocacy groups, urged states to agree on stringent provisions.

"In Syria, we have seen the death toll rise well over 30,000, with weapons and ammunition pouring in the country for months now," he said. "We need a treaty that will set tough rules to control the arms trade, that will save lives and truly make the world a better place."

Brian Wood of Amnesty International said: "After today's resounding vote, if the larger arms trading countries show real political will in the negotiations, we're only months away from securing a new global deal that has the potential to stop weapons reaching those who seriously abuse human rights."

The treaty would require states to make respecting human rights a criterion for allowing arms exports.

Britain's U.N. mission said on its Twitter feed it hoped that the March negotiations would yield the final text of a treaty. Such a pact would then need to be ratified by the individual signatories before it could enter into force.

The National Rifle Association, the powerful U.S. interest group, strongly opposes the arms treaty and had endorsed Romney.

The United States has denied it sought to delay negotiations for political reasons, saying it had genuine problems with the draft as written.
(Editing by Xavier Briand)

 

[a6m5]

"In Syria, we have seen the death toll rise well over 30,000, with weapons and ammunition pouring in the country for months now," he said. "We need a treaty that will set tough rules to control the arms trade, that will save lives and truly make the world a better place."

*jaw drops*

Do they mean that weapons & ammunition are "pouring in" in support the Syrian tyrant? Surely they don't mean that rebels shouldn't receive any weapons & ammunition, or referring to living under tyranny is somehow better life? This sounds like a bad joke.