Real Guns

[Michael88]

If you're thinking of doing a Durakote job have you also considered Cerakote? It's basically the same thing just better and more expensive.

As far as colors go I've always thought that brown was underused.

I was thinking about using ceracoat, heard a lot of good things about it but as far as I know it needs to be baked on and I don't have an oven that is even remotely large enough for a fullsize rifle. Not to mention its not available here.

Anyway, heard about a new rifle mad in Austria, only a couple of kilometers where I life. The company is called ISSC and makes & exports a bunch of .22 pistols and rifles, now they have designed a straight-pull biathlon action 10 shot rifle in .22lr, .17HMR and .22mag, 20'' match barrel. Looks pretty cool, love the straight pull action, as fast as a semi but as accurate as a bolt gun. And there is a severe lack in high-cap .17HMR and .22mag semi autos and straight pull actions.
Already pre-ordered one in .22magnum with the AICS stock.

In the US its going to be distributed over Legacy Sports. Check it out: http://www.legacysports.com/spa-straight-pull-action

 

[Rage Racer]

Dat civ AK107

It's not an AK, it's Saiga MK-107. As they say, the world's first carbine with "balanced automation".
It uses .223 Remington ammo.

 

[Omnis]

It's not an AK, it's Saiga MK-107. As they say, the world's first carbine with "balanced automation".
It uses .223 Remington ammo.

I know. It's the MK-107, the civilian AK counterpart. AK106 uses 5.56. 107 uses 5.45.

 

[Rage Racer]

...Yeah, correct, I just googled it.
AK-106? Do you mean AK-108? (This one is really 5.56).
I can't google any AK-106...

Hmm, I always thought that Saiga is a series of shotguns. Now this MK-107 appears to be the one I can't own in my country, because it's not a shotgun. Just a modified AK-107.
Why did they call it Saiga then?.. They made it some kind of brand?

 

[Michael88]

There's also commercial Saiga .308 semi-autos.

 

[Omnis]

Yeah, 108. My bad. Isn't Saiga just Izhmash's US import arm?

 

[Rage Racer]

Isn't Saiga just Izhmash's US import arm?

Saiga was initially a family of shotguns based on AK's platform and designed for hunting (saiga is a kind of antelope). But then these shotguns became sucsessful on the US market so Izhmash decided to make Saiga a brand for other export firearms, I guess.

 

[a6m5]

Yeah, at least in the U.S., they are treated as a brand. I think they had either importer or distributor trouble though, that name did change at least once, and I remember reading about their shipment interruption(again, at least in the U.S.).

The .308 Michael mentioned, I wish I had bought that one. I found a sweet used one for $800, and I decided against it. It was this guy:

Had some nice kits on it. Looked sweeeeet.

 

[Michael88]

The .308 Michael mentioned, I wish I had bought that one. I found a sweet used one for $800, and I decided against it. It was this guy:.

But you fixed the jamming issues you had with your AR-10, didn't you?

 

[David]

.

 

[Michael88]

As long as you cleaned and properly lubed the AR-10 it's probably the better gun of the two anyway. That rifle does look pretty mean though.

Define better. More accurate : yes. More reliable: no. Better to mod: yes. Easier maintenance: nope.

For me the Saiga would be the ''better'' weapon as I put reliability and easy maintenance on the top of my list. (I suffer from the SHTF syndrome) For someone else the AR10 might be the ''better'' weapon because its easier to mod to his own specifications and its more accurate which makes it a very good long range precision weapon.

 

[David]

.

 

[a6m5]

Oh, yeah. AR-10 fires flawlessly when it's actually cleaned & lubed.

Edit: I missed the last two posts. And Yes, of course it's in regards to 'SHTF' I wish I had something more reliable like Saiga. Nothing wrong with that!

 

[Rage Racer]

Another hunting carbine based on AK (closely, RPK) platform - Vepr-12 Molot. Is it available in USA?

Vepr is known to be more reliable than Saiga. A new Saiga may jam sometimes (for example, it might have problems with shell extraction), so it needs some rework using a rasp.

A fact about folding stocks: in Russia, there's a law which requires all civilian long-barreled firearms to be 800mm or more in length while ready to fire. That means, if a carbine has a folding stock which makes the gun shorter than 800mm when folded, it must be unable to fire with the stock being folded. In this case, folding stock acts like a safety. However, export versions of Saiga don't have this feature.

 

[Omnis]

You can get VEPRs here, but they're imported as hunting/sporting rifles and I think they all have slant cut receivers. I'm looking into an AK-type rifle in the future as I've come to realize that it's probably the most lefty-friendly and budget-friendly autoloading rifle available.

 

[Michael88]

A fact about folding stocks: in Russia, there's a law which requires all civilian long-barreled firearms to be 800mm or more in length while ready to fire.

Thats a much better minimum-length-law than ours, in my country a firearm must have a specific length (Shotguns: 90 cm & rifles 60 cm OAL), it doesn't matter if they're ready to fire or not when the stock is folded. A stock that turns on the safety when folded down would still make the gun illegal if its under minimum OAL.

 

[ExigeEvan]

Thats a much better minimum-length-law than ours, in my country a firearm must have a specific length (Shotguns: 90 cm & rifles 60 cm OAL), it doesn't matter if they're ready to fire or not when the stock is folded. A stock that turns on the safety when folded down would still make the gun illegal if its under minimum OAL.

Which makes more sense if you're trying to prevent people concealing weapons, surely?

 

[Michael88]

Its illegal to carry a gun unless you have a CCW license, so what does this minimum-length law do? Prevent somebody from hiding his short rifle in a trenchcoat which he is already carrying illegally? I think we can assume that if person breaks law A -thats carrying a firearm without license- also doesn't give a damn about law B, -which is owning a rifle/shotgun that is under minimum OAL.-
And there is already handguns like pistols and revolvers that make a MUCH better concealable weapon.

This law is utter BS.

I'd love to have a shorter than 90cm shotgun for home defense, its more maneuverable in close quarters, and a rifle with a collapsible or foldable stock is great when you have a car with a small trunk and you want to bring it to the range. Having to fold the rear seats every time sucks.

 

[Maiden93]

Its illegal to carry a gun unless you have a CCW license, so what does this minimum-length law do? Prevent somebody from hiding his short rifle in a trenchcoat which he is already carrying illegally? I think we can assume that if person breaks law A -thats carrying a firearm without license- also doesn't give a damn about law B, -which is owning a rifle/shotgun that is under minimum OAL.-
And there is already handguns like pistols and revolvers that make a MUCH better concealable weapon.

This law is utter BS.

I'd love to have a shorter than 90cm shotgun for home defense, its more maneuverable in close quarters, and a rifle with a collapsible or foldable stock is great when you have a car with a small trunk and you want to bring it to the range. Having to fold the rear seats every time sucks.

It's crazy to hear of people having ridiculous fees and stuff to own a weapon. I am literally blessed to live in Louisiana where there's open carry. Also, I found out that it IS legal for a person to possess a handgun, just not buy one.

 

[a6m5]

That Vepr is so sexy, it's unbelievable. I've seen couple of shops selling some AK-style rifles, and they looked different in a good way, but this one just posted.......

And Maiden93, what do you mean in the last part of your post? I'm sorry, I didn't quite get what you are saying.

Lastly, I agree with Michael on the minimum length restriction. Sounds like it makes as much sense as banning carrying guns without concealed permit. It would help the criminals before it hurts them, since they permit themselves to do whatever the law may prohibit

 

[popcorn]

On the topic of lengths of guns, am I the only one that doesn't understand the reasoning behind SBR laws? For example, you can have an AR with a barrel less than 16 inches long provided that it doesn't have a stock, so it's considered a pistol. But the moment you put a stock on it, you have to pay a 200$ tax and jum though a bunch of legal hoops, as apparently the stock makes it that much more dangerous. On an AR pistol, there's the buffer tube, which if you mess around with a bit you can kind of use it as a crude stock. Is an AR with a stock really that much more dangerous than one without?

 

[a6m5]

I've mentioned this in the tread before, but I could not get stock on Glock 17 for the same reason. I think I read that addition of the stock qualified the Glock as a short-barreled rifle.

I wondered about AR pistols, too. So they are not Class III? That makes no sense.

 

[Omnis]

Is an AR with a stock really that much more dangerous than one without?

Depends. What's more dangerous: hitting or missing your target? That's the difference a stock makes.

 

[Jedi2016]

Depends. What's more dangerous: hitting or missing your target? That's the difference a stock makes.

Even though it's no secret to anyone that a bullet that missed is usually what causes the most collateral damage.

 

[a6m5]

Speaking of misses(maybe not really), I see too much of this on the local news: Guys accidentally discharging a firearm, while practicing(whatever), or cleaning their firearm.

Last two on the news, two girls got shot. One idiot apparently just got hired as a armored transport(they pay real low from what I hear), and while practicing to draw(with one in the chamber sounds like), he accidentally fires his gun, shoots his stepdaughter in the head as she was playing outside their home. Just few days ago was a dude cleaning his rifle in his apartment, accidentally discharges some sort of rifle caliber thru three walls or something & hit a neighbor girl in the leg!

I understand that dumb stuff happens with cars too, but what gets me with these accidental discharges, they are 99.99% avoidable. Don't 🤬 practice handling a gun that's ready to fire with just a pull of the trigger & unload the gun before you clean it!

 

[Rage Racer]

That Vepr is so sexy, it's unbelievable. I've seen couple of shops selling some AK-style rifles, and they looked different in a good way, but this one just posted.......

Yeah, cool... The main difference between Saiga and Vepr is the receiver. Unlike Saiga (which is based on AKM), Vepr is based on RPK (the light MG), so it has a reinforced receiver.
I also like this kind of stock:

It reminds of SVD... Also, note this fore-end: it's definetly taken from RPK-74M machine gun.

 

[Omnis]

Notice the slant cut back though. That means you can't mount a shoulder stock. Only stocks that go into the grip.

Or am I mistaken?

 

[Maiden93]

And Maiden93, what do you mean in the last part of your post? I'm sorry, I didn't quite get what you are saying.

In Louisiana the minimum age to buy a pistol is 21. Therefore people assume that a handgun cannot be possessed by a person under 21, but it is not the case because Louisiana law says that a handgun can not be in the possession of a juvenile, which would be under 18. So basically, in Louisiana, if you are between 18-21 you can possess and open carry the handgun, you just can't buy one from a retail store. You can even by used handguns from people at 18 and it is legal. Just not an FFL.

 

[Zenith]

That AK's comp is huge...

On the topic of lengths of guns, am I the only one that doesn't understand the reasoning behind SBR laws? For example, you can have an AR with a barrel less than 16 inches long provided that it doesn't have a stock, so it's considered a pistol. But the moment you put a stock on it, you have to pay a 200$ tax and jum though a bunch of legal hoops, as apparently the stock makes it that much more dangerous. On an AR pistol, there's the buffer tube, which if you mess around with a bit you can kind of use it as a crude stock. Is an AR with a stock really that much more dangerous than one without?

Yup. Stupid law that's easily defeated by anyone mass murdering at a fourth grade level.

Buy "pistol" upper, no NFA work required and legal everywhere, then buy a standard lower with stock, mount together to make illegal short barreled rifle with stock, go on rampage, law defeated.

The purpose of the law was supposedly because people could conceal AR15's in coats or something. It should be obvious how clueless legislators are to the size of AR15's. Of course, this is how all gun control laws seem to be. In California you can order a 30 round magazine shipped directly to your house. How? You order it as a "rebuild kit" where the spring, follower, and magazine body are not assembled. The idea is that anyone who buys a rebuild kit is simply doing so to repair their legal pre magazine ban magazine or is permanently modifying the magazine body to accept 10 rounds at maximum, but we all know what's really happening. A monkey could assemble the things.

An SBR is almost ideal for home defense use and it would be interesting to see what types of firearms could be added to the market if people didn't have to choose between having the two massive design constraints of a 16" barrel or building a gun without a stock. The firearms market would be a much more diverse place without that asinine law.

 

[Omnis]

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