Reefer Madness: Power Through the Noughties Sat 10:30pm UK time from 8th April

[Sutsagrd]

I was running up the inside of you and you seemed to take avoiding action, then when I went outside to avoid you avoiding, it looked like you tagged something as the car suddenly bounced left.

Just viewed the replay.
Zo and longbow were in front of me to the hairpin after the first long straight to armberg, then at Adenauer I was trying to correct my slide and I didn't realise you were inside. I remember the bump but I honestly didn't realise I had hit you out at that point. I'm really sorry but I did that all on my own.
If I'd realised I would have waited for you to let you past. As it was you got me fair and square later on but I appreciate you could have been fighting for the podium with longbow and Joe!!

Joe look at replay GTR 1:45-47. I bumped famine off without realising! You might want to reorder the result?

 

[Famine]

Just viewed the replay.
Zo and longbow were in front of me to the hairpin after the first long straight to armberg, then at Adenauer I was trying to correct my slide and I didn't realise you were inside. I remember the bump but I honestly didn't realise I had hit you out at that point. I'm really sorry but I did that all on my own.
If I'd realised I would have waited for you to let you past. As it was you got me fair and square later on but I appreciate you could have been fighting for the podium with longbow and Joe!!

Joe look at replay GTR 1:45-47. I bumped famine off without realising! You might want to reorder the result?

Don't sweat it. I thought you were avoiding someone I couldn't see, but if it was just a mistake, it was just a mistake! Even if I had caught up with Longbow we'd have probably come together because he was invisible to me

I enjoyed the little GT-R train we had going on for two laps either way.

 

[reefer]

Week 2 - Qualifying - Fad's Pick - Acura NSX '04 - Tokyo R246 - Stock & Oil Handicap

NSX '04 - BHP Figures

NSX '04 -Tyres

NSX '04 Race Results

Week 2 - Joe's Pick - Nissan GT-R Proto '05 - Nürburgring Nordschleife - Stock & Oil Handicap (forgot to take bhp pic)

Standings After 2 Meets (4 races)

1. joe 75
2. Longbow 64
3. Famine 49
4. fad 41
5. Zo 39
6. buybon 38
7. Quentin 36
8. GarthTooma 32
9. richy 29
10. suts 27
11. Ibu-san 27
12. DC 23
13. Slant 21
14. IfAndOr 17
15. Tom_A 15

DNS
Ibu-san

Reserves
Leo
John
Al

Fad, great combo at Tokyo - not something that I would have chosen - and I'd run it all over again, it was that fun. My choice, the Nurb, not so. I'm glad Famine liked it. The Nurb is a place I'd like to get better at, but I just felt out of sorts, kinda not in the zone, for R2. The replay showed some good racing as well as the obligatory wee taps which never usually end well at the Green Hell. Suts with Famine was just one of those things which I'm sure even gk and crew have nightly occurrences of. I managed to tap richy and he went off. At the time I was sure it was only a love tap but maybe the momentum from my love carried you more forward than I thought? You never seemed to brake for ages though which puzzles me.

R1 in the NSX: I almost never run on CS, in fact, I can count the number of times in one small hand. (My hands are very small.) You guys raced so cleanly which made it so much fun. Yes, the bhp/tyre compound differences made me feel like Alonso on the straight sections, but if I took the right line, it made you guys work for your pass.

From now, I'll post a time for the next two tracks asap and I want you guys to try and match that time. That will require you to do at least 30 minutes practice beforehand. And, remember, like yesterday, the times will come down with car/track familiarity so practice as much as you can to ensure your power limiter/tyres are in the right window. Same as before, do whatever you have to do withy your tyres and bhp to achieve that, I'll trust you.

Tooma, I will get round to making your TVR video at some point - please be patient mate. Your not really in the below video, same as Colin, so apologies boys.

​

 

[LongbowX]

The NSX was brilliant at Tokyo for sure. To be taken out on the first lap was disappointing, but it was due to a technical issue and no ones fault per se. @Famine Hopefully the situation will not be repeated. I saw you fine in the first race weekend, so I have some faith that it won't be a recurring problem. I considered it encouragement for the second race to stay ahead of you so you couldn't run me off by accident.

I was disappointed by how fast people were running when the goal was stated beforehand. Though I do know it was probably unintentional. I echo the encouragement by reefer/joe for people to practice a bit more if possible. It might not be possible though for some people, which I completely understand. You say you felt like Alonso @reefer , a few of us can now sympathize with his situation. The speed differential issue will likely be exacerbated at Daytona (Road) especially if people don't practice the combination.

 

[Zolon32]

Zo outbraked himself at Armberg.

I didn't have any freakin brakes Suts, that was the problem. I didn't realise how feeble they were, having zero practice (due to circumstances beyond my control ) and hadn't cranked them up from standard settings. Damn thing just didn't stop. With SS tyres on that really should have been a very comfortable deceleration. Ah well .

the instructor stamped on the brakes

Good grief! I thought those blokes were supposed to be ice cool, and have an understanding of dynamics that would indicate that harsh braking when a car is already a little destabilised was rarely a good thing. Or am I reading this wrongly?

I almost never run on CS

They're fantastic! Best tyres in the game, by miles, in my humble opinion.

I'll trust you.

I honestly think that the trust issue isn't an issue Joe, but it is very, very difficult for people to self-regulate. Some will over compensate, others will under compensate, questioning themselves over whether this lap or that lap was truly representative of their ability. My (Sketchy) understanding is that we were supposed to be aiming for 2:04s at Tokyo? BB and I were doing them pretty consistently I think, and got left in the dust even though I am sure no one deliberately sand-bagged; it's just human frailty.


Cheers, Zo.

 

[Famine]

To be taken out on the first lap was disappointing, but it was due to a technical issue and no ones fault per se. @Famine Hopefully the situation will not be repeated.

Cripes, it looks like I've totalled leaned you right into the wall at Hammerhead there! I do have a replay recorded of my race with no you (I record everything, just in case ), I promise!

Good grief! I thought those blokes were supposed to be ice cool, and have an understanding of dynamics that would indicate that harsh braking when a car is already a little destabilised was rarely a good thing. Or am I reading this wrongly?

I'm pretty sure he was looking to stop the car being spat off to the right, which is why he grabbed the bottom of the wheel after the first slide. I'm pretty sure I had it anyway, but I figure the instructor knows best!

I honestly think that the trust issue isn't an issue Joe, but it is very, very difficult for people to self-regulate. Some will over compensate, others will under compensate, questioning themselves over whether this lap or that lap was truly representative of their ability. My (Sketchy) understanding is that we were supposed to be aiming for 2:04s at Tokyo? BB and I were doing them pretty consistently I think, and got left in the dust even though I am sure no one deliberately sand-bagged; it's just human frailty.

After 10 practice laps I worked out the percentage needed to get into mid-2'04s (up 1.5% to 87.5%). With that I did two back-to-back 2'04.5s, and then 7 of my 9 fast laps in the race were 2'04.6-2.04.8

 

[reefer]

As the organiser, it's my job to ensure that we're all in the same time window, ideally within 0.5 of each other. I should be sacked never to run an event ever again It's just time spent on the track, same for everyone I guess, and my laissez faire approach has meant one or two drivers ran a fair bit faster than they should have. I have been particularly busy these last few weeks though and haven't had as much time as I would have liked. If you have the time, here's what I recommend:

Put an hour aside.

Oil 'er up, go to the designated track and hotlap (online).

Match my time to within 0.5 either way.

If you have any problems getting in the window, let me know asap and we'll work something out.

*********WEEK 3: 22nd April*********
​

Race 1: '02 Tom_Ascar's Pick / SRT Viper GTS / SS / Daytona Road
Time to shoot for: 1:55.4 (I'm at 86%)


Race 2: '03 gu1tar3rich Pick / Audi TT Coupe 3.2 Quattro / SH / Brands Hatch GP
Time to shoot for: 1:46.7 (again, 86% here)

EDIT: UPDATE (200 miles tested at Brands Hatch)

Audi TT time now 1:45.8 (again, 86% here)

However, for 199 miles my best time was 1:46.2 so let's base the +/- 0.5 on that figure (cos I don't think anyone here here is gonna practice for 200 miles, except maybe Ibu-san). That really is my best time and have nothing to gain.

The above lap times might change as I drive more and, if so, I'll update with a fresh post. The original power % figures you were suggested to use will serve as a good indicator and will save some time fiddling about. If you need a tyre compound change to match the times, just holla. But, I think Zo's right regarding self regulation. Just do your best lads, afterall, it's for your own enjoyment. And feel free to post your times/percentages here in the thread. That way I get clear feedback:tup:

 

[CrazyJohn]

Looks like I have to withdras, my PS3 is caput.

 

[SlantSix]

Hi Joe, what year model are the GTS and Audi? There are several versions of each available.

 

[reefer]

UPDATE (200 miles tested at Brands Hatch)

Audi TT time now 1:45.8 (again, 86% here)

However, for 199 miles my best time was 1:46.2 so let's base the +/- 0.5 on that figure (cos I don't think anyone here is gonna practice for 200 miles, except maybe Ibu-san). I really can't go any faster than that! I'll update above.

Looks like I have to withdras, my PS3 is caput.

Oh, not good John, hope you get it sorted mate.

Hi Joe, what year model are the GTS and Audi? There are several versions of each available.

2002 SRT Viper GTS
2003 Audi TT Coupe 3.2 Quattro

You can find additional info for each car by going to the Calendar and clicking on the correspoding Spoiler on post #1 Slant.

 

[buybon355]

200 miles! Did you call in sick to practice or something?

I'll not get any practice time before Saturday, so if any of the guys who are around my pace can give me a power figure I'll just run with that.

 

[tooma]

Regarding me running quicker than expected at R246; I actually practiced a bit more than usual for that race, and I did not finalise my settings until pre-quali, getting the most people to run with on-track as possible, because, usually for me, the more people on track, the slower my pace is. I thought I had it pretty close, and what happened during quali was that I did a 2:05.7, then a 2:04.9, then a 2:03.2(Approx) which fired me up to 2nd. Surprised me too. Even more surprising was that when the race started it soon became evident I had more pace than I usually do on-line(a very rare and unpredictable occasion), and I was able to take the lead, and maintain it.

So, to Joe and all; I had no intention of knobling, or pulling a fast one( I did spot that pun coming, and I liked it) - it just happened, and I had no idea if it would last throughout the race, or how the other drivers would be able to react to my lead, so I carried on and did the best I could.

Joe; I suggest I stick with whatever settings you decide for me, or we try running with "boost" on for closer racing.

 

[reefer]

They're fantastic! Best tyres in the game, by miles, in my humble opinion.

I've always been a sports tyre kinda guy but running these different compounds has been really enjoyable; the Cape Ring and Tokyo races were more fun than I thought they'd be. Much more.

200 miles! Did you call in sick to practice or something?

I'll not get any practice time before Saturday, so if any of the guys who are around my pace can give me a power figure I'll just run with that.

I opened a room and a few good racers came in. The racing was close, and it wasn't difficult to race centimetres from each other for the whole lap, so that bodes well for this weekend.

So, to Joe and all; I had no intention of knobling, or pulling a fast one( I did spot that pun coming, and I liked it) - it just happened, and I had no idea if it would last throughout the race, or how the other drivers would be able to react to my lead, so I carried on and did the best I could.

Nah, don't believe you Tom. You're a nobbler trying to nobble us. Listen guys, what we're trying to achieve here isn't easy with the differences in ability levels. Look at my times at Brands yesterday, almost a full second quicker after running some proper laps, and highlights the problem we have.

Practice time is a precious commodity that not everyone can afford and we could be aiming for the impossible (racing on top of each other every race). But why should that stop us trying! Anyway, personal opinion from this end is that so far the racing has been top drawer. (I was especially impressed with Quentin and DC at Tokyo.) Let's not worry too much if one or two drivers can't make the time window. As long as 80% of us have someone to either attack or defend from for 80% of each race then our goals will be met.

//

Race 1: time to shoot for at Brands Hatch: 1:46.2 or +/- 0.5 sec. (I'm at 86%)

Race 2: time to shoot for at Daytona Road: 1:55.4 or +/- 0.5 sec. (I'm at 86%)

NB. Please adjust your power limiter/tyres to achieve the above times for at least 3 of your practice laps.

//

 

[ibuking39500]

My Daytona Road time 1:55.3 86% yeah!

 

[reefer]

You have been fast since you were young though!

Translation

 

[ibuking39500]

You have been fast since you were young though!

yeah! young!

 

[reefer]

Ibu-san, what is you lap time @86% in the Audi at Brands Hatch?

 

[ibuking39500]

Ibu-san, what is you lap time @86% in the Audi at Brands Hatch?

1:46.2 86%

 

[reefer]

1'46.2 86%

Yes, just had a few races with Ibu-san and there really is nothing between us. This car's quite forgiving if a venture onto the grass should be had - great combo richy!

//

Week 3

Race 1: time to shoot for at Brands Hatch: 1:46.2 or +/- 0.5 sec. (I'm at 86%)

Race 2: time to shoot for at Daytona Road: 1:55.4 or +/- 0.5 sec. (I'm at 86%)

NB. Please adjust your power limiter/tyres to achieve the above times for at least 3 of your practice laps.

//

 

[richroo]

Tried to get limiter right last race but went a second quicker when the lights went out lol
Started ok at the ring until Joe spread the love and I didn't brake as I flew over the grass
Think putting my back out beforehand didn't help was feeling it by then and quit after crashing a couple of times.
Hope to be OK for Saturday, possible i
Might not get the practice in tho.
Catch u soon

 

[reefer]

You're ON Tooma, TVR video has been cookin' for a day and now it's ready. Hope you like punk music!

​

 

[Derek Morten]

I feel I may have pushed the boundaries of equality in the NSX guys. I had SH tyres due to being miles off on CS.. I was working my way down the limiter as the race started.
Mind you, it was nice to see other cars for more than 2 laps.. lol

 

[Famine]

[Newcomer's 2p]

The problem with changing tyre grades is that it changes so much more than just laptimes. Even changing to a 1-step-softer tyre on the same type will dramatically throw BOP calculations out of the window, as the car is now considerably faster into, through and out of corners - whereas power limiter just affects straight line speed. It gets worse when you change grade and type (such as CS to SH), because tyre wear goes out of the window too.

The net result is that a car that nominally gets the same laptime is faster everywhere, rather than what you get with the limiter where better drivers are quicker in the bends (because skill) and slower drivers are quicker on the straights (because power).

There's also the aspect of car/track familiarity, which I think was mentioned in the lobby last weekend. The fact is that a lot of the time if you're slower than someone else it's because they're more familiar with the car/track combo and you're simply more inconsistent. I suck at the Nurburgring because I'm just so inconsistent with it, but elsewhere I'm consistent enough to put in the same laptime to within 0.5s on three-quarters of my laps.

As you practice a combo, you become more familiar with it and become more consistent. If you're a tyre grade better off and 10% better on power you might find that your first laps are 2'06, but after 20 of them you're hitting 2'01s

I think if we all do our practice sessions in the week as @reefer says, it shouldn't be too hard to dial in the right power limiter at the weekend. Work out what percentage you are above/below the target laptime and add/remove that value on the power limiter and job's a good 'un.


Still, I seem to be 3rd overall, so whatever @reefer is doing, it's working in my favour right now

 

[ibuking39500]

good racing...

 

[reefer]

I think in a bhp-equal race, those who are usually a second or so down on the pole time will have missed an apex or three, and those a few seconds further back will have made more costly mistakes.

Being a second or so faster than the "time to shoot for window" when in the actual race doesn't worry me as an unplanned excursion or similar will usually even things out after 20 minutes. The quicker guys don't usually make those mistakes.

The solution, I'm afraid, is one that we all know too well - track time - and isn't always freely available to everyone. We can't really get away from that. However, even a 20-min blast makes a huge difference, if that can be found. I'm not sure if there's anything else we can do? But if there are any maintenance items or suggestions to make the racing better, feel free to comment.

Re the Online Time To Shoot For: As an example, if the time is +/- 0.5 on 1:46.2, those who practiced should be aiming for 1:45.7 for their out-and-out best lap, a 1:46.0 for a great fast lap, a 1:46.2 for a usual fast lap, and a 1:46.8 if they had a poor lap. A 1:47.4 would be an in-traffic lap. For those who can't practice, it's much harder to gauge. Considering the above, and taking an average hotlap for 100 laps, my average time would be 1:46.2. But I can do a 1:45.7 when focused (@86%). In short, you should be able to do a 1:46.2 with the ability to go 0.5 faster, but sometimes you may be a bit slower. I hope that hasn't confused you more.

The room at Daytona will be set for Sports: Soft tyres. At Brands Hatch the room will be set for Sports: Hard tyres. If anyone needs a different grade at Brands to get in the "window", let me know.

Re qualifying at Daytona Road: we'll be going back to Race Alone for 7ish minutes. The slipstream is incredible at Daytona and would make for an interesting grid, but I feel it's risky with too much potential to spoil another driver's qualifying. So, unless there're any other thoughts (which I'd be happy to hear!), Race Alone it will be.

No one has posted a lap time/percentage figure here in this thread (yet!) so I guess no one has practiced so far. If you haven't taken richy's car out yet, you're gonna enjoy it.

Thanks again Paul for sending the TVR video file (which I forgot to save).

//

Week 3

Race 1: time to shoot for at Brands Hatch: 1:46.2 or +/- 0.5 sec. (I'm at 86%)

Race 2: time to shoot for at Daytona Road: 1:55.4 or +/- 0.5 sec. (I'm at 86%)

NB. Please adjust your power limiter/tyres to achieve the above times for at least 3 of your practice laps.

//

 

[IfAndOr]

I'm still getting over the disappointment at having to miss the last race.

Thanks again Paul for sending the TVR video file

No problem. 👍

Handicapping - You're never going to get it perfect but it's not far away at the moment. It's certainly mixed up the results more than previously! As long as there's someone to have a tussle with here and there that works for me.
My only suggestion would possibly be to turn the tyre wear off. When different tyre types are used it might help to even up the performance of the cars caused by the differing degradation between grades towards the end of the race.

Mind you, it was nice to see other cars for more than 2 laps.. lol

Which is great because that's reason behind the handicapping in the first place. 👍

"time to shoot for window"

I need a shotgun so I can hit it more often.
In my so far brief testing I'm struggling to get near your times Joe at 100%! Daytona can be especially er, trying. I must try harder.



>> Just a reminder for drivers to be careful at the start on the banked track of Daytona. Too much wheel spin will result in the cars sliding about all over the place. If you don't practice anything else it's at least worth having a try at a start beforehand. <<

A one lap rolling start works well but might be difficult to organise?

 

[tooma]

After my 1st 11 laps on-line at D'ona I am 1:58.6 @ 100% for my best time, running solo. I should be able to get some more practice in.

22/3 laps @ B-Hatch on SHs @ 100% - best LT 1:47.444, other laps @ 7.8, 7.7. The best times were a bit hairy as I was really pushing it - sure to come off keeping those up, lol. Back to D'ona again for several more runs. I'll take tyre wear off there too.

 

[reefer]

After my 1st 11 laps on-line at D'ona I am 1:58.6 @ 100% for my best time, running solo. I should be able to get some more practice in.

Thanks Old Boy and let me know if that changes.

My only suggestion would possibly be to turn the tyre wear off.

Could be a good idea! Any support for this?

In my so far brief testing I'm struggling to get near your times Joe at 100%! Daytona can be especially er, trying. I must try harder.

So is that at Daytona or Brands Paul?

>> Just a reminder for drivers to be careful at the start on the banked track of Daytona. Too much wheel spin will result in the cars sliding about all over the place. If you don't practice anything else it's at least worth having a try at a start beforehand. <<

Agreed. No rolling start so a few practice starts should sort you out. And please don't be greedy into the first corner. There'll be plenty of opportunities for passing later.

To tyre wear or not to tyre wear?

 

[reefer]

After my 1st 11 laps on-line at D'ona I am 1:58.6 @ 100% for my best time, running solo. I should be able to get some more practice in.

22/3 laps @ B-Hatch on SHs @ 100% - best LT 1:47.444, other laps @ 7.8, 7.7. The best times were a bit hairy as I was really pushing it - sure to come off keeping those up, lol. Back to D'ona again for several more runs. I'll take tyre wear off there too.

Keep tyre wear on Tom. That's what my laps were based on.

We may turn it off for the race(s) though and then off from after that for testing and the remainder of the races if there's support for no wear. There's usually a difference of a second between having it on vs. off, so keep it on for now to match this weekend's times.

Re your time at Brands: aim for an ultimate ultimate fastest lap of 1:45.7. Change up your tyres if need be. A normal fast lap should see you doing 1:46.2:tup:

//

Week 3

Race 1: time to shoot for at Brands Hatch: 1:46.2 or +/- 0.5 sec. (I'm at 86%)

Race 2: time to shoot for at Daytona Road: 1:55.4 or +/- 0.5 sec. (I'm at 86%)

NB. Please adjust your power limiter/tyres to achieve the above times for at least 3 of your practice laps.

//

 

[tooma]

Keep tyre wear on Tom. That's what my laps were based on.

We may turn it off for the race(s) though and then off from after that for testing and the remainder of the races if there's support for no wear. There's usually a difference of a second between having it on vs. off, so keep it on for now to match this weekend's times.

Re your time at Brands: aim for an ultimate ultimate fastest lap of 1:45.7. Change up your tyres if need be. A normal fast lap should see you doing 1:46.2:tup:

I'll stick with the standard tyres for each race J - not a problem. Hey, I may get another surprise in pace.

13 laps more @ D'ona and an LT of 1:57.6

Another run out @ D'ona - 1:56.7 on the 10th lap - lol. Trying to figure out how I did it now.