Reefer Madness! Saturday Classic Racing 10pm GMTOpen

[buybon355]

Tried your trusty bluebird Joe, just stuck on sensible tune and it was quick out the box. Also tried the R30 which I really liked, again it was easy to set up. Never had many of these cars before and some of them do seem pretty level. Yet to do proper race runs in them so haven't quite decided my weapon of choice for this weekend. Can seldom hook up a string of consistent laps at laguna, quite a late apex on the first right hander, I usually turn in too early. I do like it though, the elevation changes are fantastic.

Great to see more racers joining, quite an accomplishment Joe, well done.

 

[Venari]

http://www.mazdaraceway.com/sites/main/files/file-attachments/racing_lines_0.pdf

My T3: Lift & brake at the beginning of the kerbs and drop a gear (to third, usually) then take up some throttle as you turn. Take a good chunk of the apex kerbing if you like too, because the further out you go on the exit, the less camber there is. 68-70mph is a good apex-to-exit speed for these cars.

Laguna is veerrrrrry dusty on the outside. if you fall off the track completely, at the next corner you have to brake earlier and sacifice >5% corner speed to get through it. If you mess up once in the heat of battle and forget, it's almost certain you'll fall off at the next bend too.

My bete noir here is Turn 5, although I think I've found a sensible method for the classics. Like T3, if you mess up the apex, you're nowhere on the exit. That said, I love the track (visited it for real a few years ago) and have fond memories of a couple of satisfying LAN party race victories in inferior cars.

Anyone blatting the corner distance marker boards off the track edge during the race should be docked points.

 

[IfAndOr]

Hi mate, for this first championship feel free to run anything you're comfortable with.

Ok. I'll try a few out and see what fits nicely.

I find low 1:36s a good lap.

I'm finding staying on track a good lap. I'll get it sorted before Saturday though.

IfAndOr, you must be Super clean if buybon is capitalising 'ultra'.

Caustic soda and a scouring pad works wonders.
Cheers to BB for those kind words though.

Anyone blatting the corner distance marker boards off the track edge during the race should be docked points.

One point for each one?
By the way, an interesting post on tuning earlier. 👍

 

[reefer]

Great to see more racers joining, quite an accomplishment Joe, well done.

All your fault mate; I think you were one of the first to show an interest

Anyone blatting the corner distance marker boards off the track edge during the race should be docked points.

Yeah, good point, let's try 'n keep the markers upright as I think we'll all be relying on them.

Ok. I'll try a few out and see what fits nicely.

The general idea is to have freedom of choice. If you want/need to pit, you can pit, if you want to change your car, you can do that too. If you want to take your time and saunter round, by all means feel free

I'm just trying to get away from you have to do this, this, this and this which many other series' have, and there's nothing wrong with that, but I'm thinking why be the same if we don't need to be.

However, the other day whilst having a ****, a shave and a shower this popped into my head: after you've run one car from the list, you can't run it again for the rest of the series. Eight meets, two races per meet with eighteen cars to choose from means there'll be two cars that you don't have to use. Downside is buying and tuning sixteen cars. Upside is that it voids the some cars are faster issue(?). If your main competitor comes out in what is classed as a fast car, you can either choose to match it or play a different hand and hold onto your so-called fast car until later in the series adding a strategic element to the races. Does this idea sound like it's got any mileage? I'm thinking for next championship. Or are there any other ideas out there that are better and weren't born in a toilet?

 

[buybon355]

All the best ideas come with the help of Armitage Shanks! From memory, most if not all have changed car at some point, although not all from race 1 to race 2.

I know you are suggesting this for the next series, but clearly there is the desire to change cars, so yes, I believe there is mileage in it. Would mean you keeping tabs on who raced what etc, but as this thread is great for pics, it shouldn't be too hard for all to see.

 

[reefer]

I'm sure I've met Mr Shanks many times. Many, many times. He's a man of ideas.

Re a lap time: 1:34.8 with tyre wear on and I can't remember a thing about it!! or the next lap at 1:34.9. Losing me marbles here

 

[Venari]

this popped into my head: after you've run one car from the list, you can't run it again for the rest of the series. Eight meets, two races per meet with eighteen cars to choose from means there'll be two cars that you don't have to use.

Aha. Pick'n'mix!

Pick'n'mix is another way. One you've chosen one car (of eight available for the eight races) you can't choose it again.

You're welcome. Pick'n'mix is a great way of making a very, very close championship. We've used it in UKGTP LANs for years, and you don't even really have to make the cars balanced in performance. I never thought about using it in a PP matched championship - but then we never tuned the cars (makes them easy to buy and just use.)

This is actually kinda neat. The PP system matches the cars badly per se, we all know this - but then pick'n'mixing closely performing cars makes the racing varied for all the drivers (any driver might have a chance of winning in the right car) and also the overall championship close... and much more like a game of Poker. The best overall driver may not actually win due to luck. (Which is kinda the point.)

Exciting racing though.

 

[Zolon32]

Was formerly jockes club, which zolons now hosting.

Thanks for the kind words BB.

I'm really glad your mention drew my attention to this thread, I've got a good mate who's soon going to be setting himself up with a race outfit, but he plays footie on Tuesday evenings and we're looking for somewhere we can race together. This looks brilliant!

I'll see if I can pop in a link to the Racers Reunited thread, which I'm about to update..............

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...-tuesday-10th-nov.334252/page-9#post-11082935

I think that's it. Ignore the title, that will soon change.

See you later chaps, I look forward to racing with you some time soon.

Cheers, Zo.

 

[buybon355]

networking - love it! Top flight series this. Apparently the guy leading the points is bit of a Shereen, (Non scottish people may not get the reference to the newsreader in question) but there's been some great racing so far. Bigger grids give more people the chance to race with someone, wherever they end up in the field.

Hope your connection speed is up to the task Joe!

 

[gerber]

Ok folks, here is my report so far. I've tried the first 5 cars off the list and I've found that I can be somewhat competitive only in the Cosmo Sport. I wanted to run different cars in the 2 races but I am afraid I don't have time to try, tune and learn others so maybe next time.

Like I mentioned before I have tune-o-fobia so I decided to learn at least something and found this:
http://www.gtvault.com/gt5/tuning-guide/
I've fiddled a bit with spring rates and ride height to adjust the car and I actually managed to improve it a bit
as for for power and weight tuning, it was good old random tuning. I will stay with what I got since I don't have much time to try other settings.

The track - I love it! I enjoy elevation change but man, the first right hander... I lose good chunk of time there, and sometimes I overshoot it and end up hitting the sand. Very very rarely, when planets align in some magical way, I get it right by luck. That late apex is so tricky...

My best lap time today with tire wear off was 1:35.086 but mostly late 35s and sometimes 37s (damn you first right hander!). I am very inconsistent driver so forgive me if I mess up. I prioritize clean racing but due to my little experience and inconsistent skills - if I hit you know that it's never on purpose.

Tomorrow I'll test with tire wear on and see how it goes. Saturday is almost here

 

[buybon355]

I'm sure I've met Mr Shanks many times. Many, many times. He's a man of ideas.

Re a lap time: 1:34.8 with tyre wear on and I can't remember a thing about it!! or the next lap at 1:34.9. Losing me marbles here

You're needing a 750ml glass bottle of irn-Bru a roll on square sausage and a tunnocks tea cake. I'm sure you can get mince and tatties where you are, but stovies might prove difficult.

 

[IfAndOr]

A quick question - is the use of SS tyres compulsory (for tyre wear equality) or can lower grades be used for possible race strategy?

All the best ideas come with the help of Armitage Shanks!

Well I went for a sit down and... My mind's gone blank.

The general idea is to have freedom of choice.

Which is indeed what attracted me. 👍

Like I mentioned before I have tune-o-fobia

I think it's contagious because I have it too!
My tuning usually involves adding race hard/soft suspension, removing a bit of weight and tweaking the brake balance.

I'm getting 1.36/37 in the Renault R8 at the moment.

 

[Venari]

Stand by... I'll put a tune for the Esprit up in this post in a moment. Also, I've been doing some testing on something else and might have a Europa tune which makes it a joy.

Edit 1: I didn't test the Esprit much at Laguna (because I'd used it already) but the setup for Cote d'Azur will do the job well. Here you go:

RH: 89 / 84
SR: 3.60 / 4.40
DC: 9 / 9
DX: 9 / 9
ARB: 7 / 7
CA: 0.0 / 0.0
TA: 0.00 / 0.00

Race Brakes: 6 / 4 (ABS: 1)

Trans: Set Final to highest number, set max speed to 112, then set final gear to 4.300 (you might go to 4.250 for Laguna.)

LSD: 10 / 20 / 40 (you might go to 45 for braking on Laguna if you feel the car rotates too much on entry)

Triple clutch.

Power tuning is no oil change, Sports Computer/ Stock everything else. 241hp. It matters not really, anything close will do to get you to 450PP, just stay off the power limiter.

Body tune is all the weight reductions, then 61kg of ballast fully forwards to get a 49:51 weight dist. Should be 1020kg. Again, as with power, balance this up with your power output to get close to this. A couple of kilos/hps either way won't make much difference.

The car should be almost unstickable and understeer free under power, and will just tend to rotate a little to aid corner entry on braking. Change up at 6,500rpm, any more and you fall off the power curve... which you will do going to turn 2 and you should break 120mph easily.

I just did a 1m33.6 lap 2 in it with tyre wear on in online lobby, and followed by six 1m34.xxx laps in a row. It is flat out FAST; hence the win at Monaco.

I think my car has BBS rims on it, at 1 inch up, if you think these make a difference.

 

[gerber]

I'll give this one a try tomorrow Venari, if it works good maybe I will use it for second race

just stay off the power limiter

Is this always a big no no? I sometimes use it but not much, down to 98-99%

Triple clutch.

What is the difference between twin clutch and triple clutch? When one is more appropriate than the other?

and why no oil change? I thought it was always a good idea

edit: ah, forgot it's an MR car. I just can't drive MR properly but I'll give it a try tomorrow anyway

 

[Venari]

Is this always a big no no? I sometimes use it but not much, down to 98-99%

What is the difference between twin clutch and triple clutch? When one is more appropriate than the other?

and why no oil change? I thought it was always a good idea

Power limiter: it's a personal choice, and a 95% rule is usually a good idea - excess use is just... well, cheating. It changes the shape of a power curve too much - gives you a rev range through gear changes which is just optimized power. Not big or clever.

Twin/triple clutch - not much, in the game, just speed of gearchanges. In real life, multi-plate clutches have higher torque handling capability... and on the downside are more difficult to slip for a clean getaway. Coincidentally, later Lotus Esprit were one of the few cars to have a twin-plate clutch as standard... and were notorious for being easy to stall! F1 cars have something daft like 8-plate clutches.[citation required!]

Oil changes: just for this tune, it's easier to get into it if you're in a rush or don't need power. The Lotus has plenty of power, so not bothering makes tuning a bit easier. Otherwise, going for all the power you can get, an oil change is good. Eventually the Lotus will need one (because you love it so much and drive it all the time ) so you'll get a bump above 450PP with it and need to dial some power out.

Right, I said I'd post a Europa tune also... and yes, it's giving things away, but I'm not sure if either of these are driveable on wheels, so what the heck.

'68 Europa, no oil change (I don't think) on Sports Softs at Laguna Seca.

Suspension
RH: 65 / 75
SR: 4.00 / 4.50
DC: 9 / 9
DX: 9 / 9
ARB: 6 / 7
CA: 0.0 / 0.0
TA: 0.00 / 0.00

Racing brakes: 8 / 5

Transmission: Set to maximum final gear, set 99mph top speed, then set final gear to 4.150 and 5th ratio to 0.950. You may adjust first at your leisure for desired grip/wheelspin on takeoff.

LSD: 10 / 5 / 45 with triple clutch.

Power:
Stage 2 Engine Tuning
Sports Computer
Race Exhaust
Iso Manifold
Standard Catalytic convertor
Standard intake
High RPM Turbo
Should be 212hp. If it's less, then yes, there is an oil change.

Body:
Standard, with 200kg ballast at -12% to give 49:51 weight distribution and 824kg.

Now you've set it up, look at the power curve. It tops out on the limiter at 7,700rpm. This means you rev the nuts off this thing, drive it well past the 7k redline each gear.

This car is an absolute gem. Driven conservatively, it will just turn in when you want, accept all the throttle you can give it, and will just go where you point. As you push each turn-in harder, hit apexes faster, it get to the point where on entry, you can simply get it set up in a four-wheel drift and unusally on GT6, it is the fastest way. You can steer straight and it goes (to misquote Sterling Moss) like a thrown dart. I can consistently put in 1m36s, but as soon as one of those perfect laps comes along, it will knock out a low 1m35s. Inside kerbs don't upset it, so you can take liberties on apexes. The top of third gear might be a touch low if you like to do this, at 70-72 mph, if you clip a kerb it may spin up a little and bounce off the limiter - it won't throw you offline but you might lose the tiniest bit of momentum.

This setup was developed from a Europa Special setup at 470PP/Race Hards that I've been mucking around with for another classic championship idea.

 

[IfAndOr]

The Europa setup could well come in handy because to limit my choices (and therefore make it easier for myself) I've only bought the premium models from the list. Oh, plus the Jag which I'd already got.

 

[reefer]

Damn you man flu! I've got a bass drum playing inside my head and not sure if I can race tomorrow night. I will open the room though

A quick question - is the use of SS tyres compulsory (for tyre wear equality) or can lower grades be used for possible race strategy?

Yeah, maybe I should have made that clear; anything up to SS is okay:tup:

You're needing a 750ml glass bottle of irn-Bru a roll on square sausage and a tunnocks tea cake. I'm sure you can get mince and tatties where you are, but stovies might prove difficult.

What about a greasy Greggs pie? Could you send one of them over?

Aha. Pick'n'mix!

Thanks mate. How did I miss it!

I'm really glad your mention drew my attention to this thread, I've got a good mate who's soon going to be setting himself up with a race outfit, but he plays footie on Tuesday evenings and we're looking for somewhere we can race together. This looks brilliant!

Hi Zolon, I've been reading your threads too which look great. I can't manage those times though, but if anyone else is interested, get in touch with Zolon - the races look great.

The car should be almost unstickable and understeer free under power, and will just tend to rotate a little to aid corner entry on braking. Change up at 6,500rpm, any more and you fall off the power curve... which you will do going to turn 2 and you should break 120mph easily.

I just did a 1m33.6 lap 2 in it with tyre wear on in online lobby, and followed by six 1m34.xxx laps in a row.

I'm beginning to think you're not human mate. The Lotus was my car of choice for this weekend and I may try your set up at a later date. Looks interesting.


I hope I can race this weekend, but I'm thinking I may compromise others and that ain't cool. Back to bed ..thump.. thump..

 

[buybon355]

Hope you feel better soon Joe.

 

[gerber]

Venari, thanks for sharing the cars. I decided to use my own car and tuning, this way I will have the most fun experience. All I want is to stay competitive enough so I will have someone to race with :-) but it's great to have these cars as a reference.

Today I got really disappointed with GT6... I wanted to do some 0-400m and 0-1000m testing and realized that there is no way to do it in GT6... is there ANY reason to remove this feature? I remember using it back in GT2 and I think GT5 also had it (not sure though). Seriously, why remove it? And it's a very simple feature to make. Guys, is there any legit way to test my acceleration in GT6?

EDIT: is it possible to create a test track with the course maker? A straight road that checks time at 100m, 400m and 1000m for example?

 

[JockeP22]

is it possible

I think @eran0004 's thread can help you.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/eran0004s-tracks-new-track-montemaggiore-hillclimb.335100/

 

[Venari]

I'm beginning to think you're not human mate.

Aw, shucks, thanks mate.

I'm solid midfield in the guys I race against due to horrendous inconsistency. I'm trying to fix that because I'm not that slow in qualifiying. However, my buddies include a GT Academy/Red Bull Gridsters finalist... although he spanks everyone so...

That said, there are a bunch of old retiree geezers who run 450PP/race softs online who regularly kick my bottom.

 

[gerber]

I think @eran0004 's thread can help you.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/eran0004s-tracks-new-track-montemaggiore-hillclimb.335100/

Thanks! His 1 Mile Drag Strip does exactly what I wanted 👍

BTW I have perhaps a lame question but I wonder, when cornering and speed drops low enough to down shift but just for a second or two before I'll need to upshift, is it worth it? I mean is it faster or should I just stay with the current gear?

 

[eran0004]

Thanks! His 1 Mile Drag Strip does exactly what I wanted 👍

BTW I have perhaps a lame question but I wonder, when cornering and speed drops low enough to down shift but just for a second or two before I'll need to upshift, is it worth it? I mean is it faster or should I just stay with the current gear?

Glad you like it

As for the shift question, it depends a lot on the power curve of the car you're driving. If you have a very peaky power curve (typically a low torque, high power engine), and the power drops a lot in the lower revs, it could be worth it to shift down for a second or two before shifting up. However, staying in a higher gear can work as a "manual traction control" and prevent you from spinning the wheels and losing traction in the corner, partially because you get less power to the wheels in the higher gear, and partially because a higher gear gives less engine braking than a lower gear if you come off the throttle.

If you have a flatter power curve (typically a high torque engine) it doesn't make such a big difference which gear you're in, although it's still true that the higher gear gives less engine braking than the lower gear.

 

[Venari]

Also, shifting upsets the balance of a car. To go faster, relax - try not shifting. You may find your line/speed improves to the point where actually you really really don't need to downshift.

Gear ratios are adjustable individually... you could also try lengthening the lower gear and/or shortering the higher one (if you see what I mean.)

 

[Sutsagrd]

Hi Reefer

I'm Suts and I would very much like to join in on your Saturday night racing.

Like @IfAndOr I've been watching your thread but couldn't join earlier as this is the first Saturday I'm actually free to race. I also will probably be an irregular attendee due to work and family commitments.

I know many of the guys racing esp Jocke, BB, Gkgamer and Zo.
It was Sick who told me about your thread. 👍

I'm no where near as quick as majority of racers here but I'd like to think I'm clean and always fair.

Love your car selection and the tracks. Very sad to have missed Monaco and I'm rubbish round Laguna seca!
Hope you'll accept me into your club and get better soon!

 

[gerber]

I did some practice now with the same car and settings and I don't know what happened, it was like I was driving a different car. My times were in 37s

Transmission: Set to maximum final gear, set 99mph top speed, then set final gear to 4.150 and 5th ratio to 0.950.

Why everyone does that slide to the max? Is this some kind of glitch?

 

[Venari]

It's an easy way of setting close ratios, and making the top gear approximately one. Apparently, it also makes a performance difference, but I've not really noted anything and no-one can seem to explain it properly.

 

[eran0004]

I did some practice now with the same car and settings and I don't know what happened, it was like I was driving a different car. My times were in 37s


Why everyone does that slide to the max? Is this some kind of glitch?

No glitch, it's because of the way the gearbox tune settings work. With final drive set to max, you get as close ratios as possible.

It's an easy way of setting close ratios, and making the top gear approximately one. Apparently, it also makes a performance difference, but I've not really noted anything and no-one can seem to explain it properly.

Closer ratios means that you can spend more time at high power revs, which of course gives you better acceleration. It mainly benefits cars with peaky power curves (low torque, high power). With high torque engines it doesn't really matter.

The shift speed also improves the closer the ratios are, but the difference is just a frame or two.

It's important to know though that you'll always have to sacrifice something when building your gearbox. With these super-close ratios it's either first gear performance that needs to be sacrificed (making the 1st gear as tall as possible, but it works well as long you've got a powerful car and only intend to use 1st gear at the start of the race. It can backfire pretty bad though if you have a crash or a spin during the race and need to accelerate from standstill) or top speed that needs to be sacrificed. A lot of times you also end up with the top gears being further apart than they originally were, which may lead to performance drops at high speeds.

 

[buybon355]

Black or white. My choices for tomorrow, can't decide which to use

 

[bloodyboyblue]

This thread sure has gotten a lot more active lately. The old Tuesday crowd is slowly reassembling. Also I suppose I'll join the "using 2 different cars each week, one for each race" club.