Relaxed, General Forza 5 Chat

[Speedster911]

In the distant future, I believe an open world sim with realistic physics is possible.
There are a few really good real-world physics simulators on PC that run on pretty large areas. The crash physics are amazing! Even on dual Titan GPU's, on the highest settings, I still experience framerate drops when there are a lot of vehicles on-screen crashing at the same time.

On a technological level, I don't think the open world racing game we wish for is possible along side the physics we want. Even Horizon 2 had to be locked at 30FPS with its arcade physics. I just don't think we are there yet. If someone is going to do it, they should wait and do it right.

Yeap, don't think console hardware is powerful enough to have all the open-world stuff happening with uber-realistic physics locked at 60 fps.

Physics-wise, Forza Horizon 1 was on par with or better than the first three Forza Motorsport games. I think that was revolutionary for an open road street racing game. It's unfortunate that FH2 has already shifted the series away from realism, but it's also not terribly surprising.

Agreed. I wish FM4 had borrowed an element or two from Horizon's suspension modeling, but it came later, so I won't hold it against T10. Am I happy to know H2 shifts even further away from realism. Definitely not; I had hoped the realism would at least stay where it is; the brakes were already too responsive in H1. Oh well, can't please em' all, is what I say.

Its not a shift they chose light heartedly im sure.

True that.

 

[VXR]

On Xbox One it's probably similar to how FM4 played, but the gulf is much larger between FM5 and H2 than it was between FM4 and H1. The option to run FM5's handling in free roam would be immense. As it is, the cars only get too tricky when approaching 1000hp like the Ruf 997 I built the other night. In 5, even the likes of the Clio Williams would bite you for getting it wrong, yet when you got it right it'd feel so satisfying.

 

[Speedster911]

One can only wish... and perhaps fantasize.

 

[TheCrazySwede]

FM5 and H2 are two different tastes for different mates. I don't think the thought process behind H2 was to make a Forza game that FM5 players will like. Apples and Oranges, really. The ability to piggyback off of a successful franchise is a huge advantage and probably the main reason why the Horizon series is as popular as it is. I could be completely wrong, but I am very confident that most of H2's players are Forza Motorsport players. The "new to the series" and "arcade racers" that H2 is trying to please probably makes up the minority of users. Had the game been titled something else and had it lost its affiliation with FM, then I could understand if most of the users would be arcade racers, but I think the Forza name brings more FM users than players that otherwise wouldn't play racing games.
The problem with that is that H2 is catered for the wrong audience. If most of the users are from FM and prefer a more realistic approach to driving, then the game, no matter how great it is, will always be "imperfect" in a way. That's how I feel about it. I love the concept, but not a huge fan of its execution.

With the amount of assist that the Forza Motorsport series has these days, I don't see why they couldn't just implement FM's physics engine and realistic driving into FH and just let those who don't want the full sim experience just water down the realism. Forza Motorsport's moto has always been to turn car lovers into gamers and gamers into car lovers. If that's the case, then why not make a realistic driving game with open world environments and let the gamer decide the difficulty of the driving, just like FM? My 6 year old cousin can play FM5 with assists turned on with no problem, which kinda makes the dumbed down physics of Horizon completely unnecessary....unless, it's what I described earlier, the lack of power, so to speak. I don't think FH can run all the awesome realistic physics of a Motorsport series game, run the open world with all of the fancy eye-candy graphics and lock it at 60FPS. It's just not possible.

 

[Wolfe]

I think the reason they altered the physics for Forza Horizon was because racing at high speeds on undulating open roads should actually be very difficult. Assuming T10/PG spent time play testing with FM4 physics, they probably ended up overspeeding blind corners and shooting past intersections because they couldn't brake in time to make a turn. So they tweaked the tire model to shorten the braking distance and increase the limits of traction so you're less likely to be caught out. It's not the sort of challenge we niche fans would like, but it makes sense. It's a whole different environment from sanctioned circuits.

Providing a full simulation experience and then offering assists doesn't necessarily work, because there are too many players who lack driving skill yet believe nothing short of 100% "Simulation" settings is good enough. Many of them would sooner blame the game than admit they need assistance. A staid trackday racing game can get away with being challenging (with enough marketing and luck), but it would frustrate players in a game that's supposed to be fun and exciting like Forza Horizon.

 

[VXR]

Just a bit less grip off the throttle and less frenetic turn-in would help.

 

[SimTourist]

FH2 has more challenging physics than FM4 playing both side by side, but yeah, 5 is the hardest one. But honestly I don't care, I go to FH2 for fun and to FM5 for challenge. The work together perfectly for me, so I don't even feel the urge to play any other racing games outside of forza.

 

[Speedster911]

What @TheCrazySwede said.... +1000

Don't understand why they can just leave the FM5 engine in there, and allow gamers to tweak the game via settings and assists, to suit their preferences for realism in a driving game.

I hope they don't ruin the franchise like this. Marrying off Motorsport Physics with the Horizon open world setting would be absolute motoring heaven.

One of you even suggested several months back how we could be driving on open roads.. and actually drive to the race track to participate in a motorsport event. How ridiculously COOL would that be?

I love Horizon, I do. But I don't like where it's going. Turn 10 must not continue to ditch the realism in small increments. Outsourcing it to PG was a great idea. Making it a casual racing game wasn't. We have TDU and NFS already doing that stuff.

 

[Fat Tyre]

I would have also liked for them to keep the same handling feel as in FM5 but it would have been impossible to have that and at the same time have off road races with all those super low ride height supercars. Most of those cars would get bogged down as soon as they go onto the grass.

Have a look at this video 0:23 sec. to have an idea.

 

[VXR]

So then they could encourage players to use the proper cars provided for those events and not have the farce of seeing supercars ploughing through fields. If people tried it in free roam and got stuck maybe they'd be educated.

Anyhow, I finally tried the 0-100 deadzones last night. Not sure if it feels better, cause the Caterham still bit me regularly, but it does seem more catchable when it starts to slip. Will have to test it some more, because it's definitely great fun trying.

 

[Speedster911]

@VXR You're on a controller yeah? In any case, 0-100 works best. Forces you to be a better driver, and you naturally have more freedom and degrees of movement.

I'm almost always on SIM, with these deadzone settings. Work great. Oh and yeah... keep motion effects off. They throw you off around corners, especially when you're trying to counter or catch/control a drift.

 

[RacerPaul]

I was thinking how cool it would be if the in-game car prices matched
reality in your own local currency

Tricky with race cars I know, but even those have a monetary value

Opinions?

 

[VXR]

@VXR You're on a controller yeah? In any case, 0-100 works best. Forces you to be a better driver, and you naturally have more freedom and degrees of movement.

I'm almost always on SIM, with these deadzone settings. Work great. Oh and yeah... keep motion effects off. They throw you off around corners, especially when you're trying to counter or catch/control a drift.

Yeah, controller, sim steering, no TC or STM, I do use ABS and I use manual without clutch. Just feels right.

 

[MagpieRacer]

What @TheCrazySwede said.... +1000

Don't understand why they can just leave the FM5 engine in there, and allow gamers to tweak the game via settings and assists, to suit their preferences for realism in a driving game.

I hope they don't ruin the franchise like this. Marrying off Motorsport Physics with the Horizon open world setting would be absolute motoring heaven.

One of you even suggested several months back how we could be driving on open roads.. and actually drive to the race track to participate in a motorsport event. How ridiculously COOL would that be?

I love Horizon, I do. But I don't like where it's going. Turn 10 must not continue to ditch the realism in small increments. Outsourcing it to PG was a great idea. Making it a casual racing game wasn't. We have TDU and NFS already doing that stuff.

I am gonna guess that they cant due to the framerate and how many other things are going on outside of graphics and physics.

That said, one mans heaven is another mans hell, it simlpy would be less fun for more people.

 

[Wolfe]

I don't think the physics in Forza Horizon 2 are limited by processing power. They certainly wouldn't need any more to make the cars handle more accurately. Processing power allows for more fidelity, but having those extra calculations per second is not a strict requirement for or a guarantee of authenticity.

 

[MagpieRacer]

Perhaps but processing power has been a sticking point in the past, I know a few devs who have said certain things cant be done because of limited power on previous gen consoles, I just mean there could be a correlation between the need for 30fps and more accessible physics beyond making it more fun for average gamers.

I am probably wrong though so your right to question my theories

 

[Speedster911]

Yeah, controller, sim steering, no TC or STM, I do use ABS and I use manual without clutch. Just feels right.

Same here, no point in using man w/clutch on a controller. Though I never use assists, including ABS. About as challenging as it can get. Gosh... wish I could get one of the T10 programmers nabbed, tie him to a chair...stick battery terminals you know where.. and ask him to patch in an option to have adjustable speed sensitive steering and steering sensitivity.. that or the old feather tickle could work too..

 

[TheCrazySwede]

I don't think the physics in Forza Horizon 2 are limited by processing power. They certainly wouldn't need any more to make the cars handle more accurately. Processing power allows for more fidelity, but having those extra calculations per second is not a strict requirement for or a guarantee of authenticity.

Actually, that is not entirely true. During one of my races a few years ago at Laguna Seca, I got a chance to talk to some T10 guys, including a gentleman (whose name I don't remember) that was working specifically on in-game physics. This was after FM4's release, but just before the DLC with the 787B. Anyway, long story short, I kept throwing technical questions at him, including some criticisms regarding FM4's "realism" and his excuse was that their physics model ran much better on PC, but the XBox 360 didn't have the processing power, hence why it had to be dumbed down. One example in our conversation was the downhill between Turn 1 and Turn 2 at Laguna, and how in FM4, the car doesn't shift weight properly under braking. He told me that FM4's PC model handled that section way differently, but not all the factors in physics made it over to the 360, due to its lack of juice.

Here's my deal with FH2. Seeing how the open world environments and weather has already stripped the game of 60FPS, I highly doubt that it would be able to keep those elements while implementing the more advanced dynamics of the FM series into the game AND then run the game at 60FPS, which to many sim racers like myself, is extremely important. This is on top of all of the changes they are going to have to implement into their handling, such as driving on wet roads and taking supercars off-road, as shown in a video above.

I'm rather confident that FM6 will be able to run at 60FPS and keep Day/Night and weather effects, because of the scale of the environments (tracks) aren't as diverse and large as FH2's open world. I don't see FH3 accomplishing this anytime soon, especially on the XBone, which is an outdated piece of lard.

 

[Speedster911]

"XBone, which is an outdated piece of lard."



I guess I'm going to have to carefully reconsider getting it. I'm not at all impressed with the PS4's line up, but hardware wise, how much more powerful do you think it is?

Launch title or not.. the fact that H2 can't run realistic physics at 60 fps or FM5 not having proper tire smoke effects for instance, is evidence it isn't all that powerful.

I strongly believe the X360 was way more powerful than the original Xbox as opposed to the X360 to X1 transition.

And your post, spot on. You've posted it before haven't you? Remember reading all that. The bit about your conversation with a T10 guy at Laguna Seca.

 

[Wolfe]

Ultimately, the responsibility falls on T10 to make the best use of whatever processing power is available, especially on a console where hardware specs are more or less immutable. It's their choice to downgrade the physics engine from their in-house simulator instead of refining it to get better results or cutting back on something else. Looking at those shiny HD graphics, I don't buy the excuse that there's nothing else they could do. Pretty visuals don't even necessarily preclude realistic physics, if you balance things appropriately.

In any case, even if there are calculations in FM5 that needed to be cut from FH2-One for a lack of processing power, the effects of that downgrade are surely overshadowed by PG's deliberate "tweaks" to the handling model.

 

[TheCrazySwede]

"XBone, which is an outdated piece of lard."



I guess I'm going to have to carefully reconsider getting it. I'm not at all impressed with the PS4's line up, but hardware wise, how much more powerful do you think it is?

Launch title or not.. the fact that H2 can't run realistic physics at 60 fps or FM5 not having proper tire smoke effects for instance, is evidence it isn't all that powerful.

I strongly believe the X360 was way more powerful than the original Xbox as opposed to the X360 to X1 transition.

And your post, spot on. You've posted it before haven't you? Remember reading all that. The bit about your conversation with a T10 guy at Laguna Seca.

Yeah, the PS4 doesn't have a great line up....I'm waiting for the new Uncharted!
The thing about the XBone is that it does get a lot of criticisms, but for all the wrong reasons.
On paper, the new XBox is rather powerful. Many people who don't know exactly know what on Earth they are talking about will argue that the new XBox is equally powerful to a mid-low end PC these days. The thing is, though, is that gaming consoles preserve most, if not all of their processing power on gaming, whereas a PC has to allocate its power accordingly. FM4, for example, would run flawlessly on the new XBone. FM5 runs great, too, but it has its short comings.

The problem with the XBone is the competition. When Microsoft originally displayed the games coming out for the new console, they were running their demos on PC's running on Windows 7 with Titan GPU's. Sony has taken a HUGE step up from the PS3's overly-complicated Cell structure, but Microsoft, unfortunately, hasn't taken as large of a step. That's the problem with the XBone. Combine that with the fact that the XBone's apps and OS take up a large amount of the 8GB of DDR3 memory that it has, and you've got something that no longer is a gaming console. You have now reached the same level as mid-low end PC's that have to allocate its resources towards gaming. The PS4, however, is way more "gaming" oriented, with a whopping 8GB of GDDR5 (trust me, only first party games will come anywhere close to using all of that) and the new GPU and CPU structure allows for game development very similar to PC's.

One of my clients as a Computer Engineer worked at an Arts Institute in San Francisco. He had worked at studios such as Insomniac, Tell Tale Games, Rockstar and one more that I don't remember (I think the studio that made God of War.) Anyway, I had asked him if multiplatform games will suffer because of the XBone, and his answer was a "Yes and No" type. For starters, many developers are starting development on the PS4 these days, mainly due to how well oriented towards gaming it is, as I mentioned earlier. The problem that the XBone faces is that if developers are starting development on a much more powerful system, like the PS4, then there will often be problems or shortcomings, like how Call of Duty couldn't run at 1080 and 60FPS on the XBone, thus having it dowgraded to 720 and upscaled. The developer didn't found out about this issue until they started applying the game onto the XBone console, but the title was originally developed for....you guessed it, with the PS4 and PC in mind.

The XBone is falling behind in this marathon and when the pace quickens up, it will run out of breath very quickly.

Yeah, I've mentioned that story with the T10 lads a couple of times before. It's my most solid argument in these conversations, haha.

 

[Fat Tyre]

In this tech interview "The making of Forza Horizon 2" they say that the underlying simulation is the same as in FM5 but the handling was changed to make it more forgiving and fun.

Most of the stuff is very technical but it makes a good read. Do you guys think they are full of crap?


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-the-making-of-forza-horizon-2

Digital Foundry: Are we essentially looking at the same Forza simulation system as that found in FM5? Or did the open world and various terrain types and weather systems necessitate enhancing the existing tech?

Matt Craven:We run the same physics engine that can be found in FM5, so it has all the same depth and sophistication. Our handling model is designed to be more forgiving and our car handling designers do an excellent job of setting up the cars to ensure that driving around our world is a fun experience. With the addition of dynamic weather we had to make some changes to enable the player to feel a change in handling when driving in the wet, but we still kept it accessible and fun.


Digital Foundry: Similar to the original Horizon on Xbox 360, you're aiming for a totally locked 30fps in the sequel. But that's just the rendering - what are the refresh rates of the underlying simulation?

Matt Craven: The simulation runs at 360Hz so we maintain the same level of detail as found in FM5.

 

[sailworksman]

Anyone else having issues playing online? I can't connect to any of the servers for days now.

 

[Speedster911]

Yeah, the PS4 doesn't have a great line up....I'm waiting for the new Uncharted!
The thing about the XBone is that it does get a lot of criticisms, but for all the wrong reasons.
On paper, the new XBox is rather powerful. Many people who don't know exactly know what on Earth they are talking about will argue that the new XBox is equally powerful to a mid-low end PC these days. The thing is, though, is that gaming consoles preserve most, if not all of their processing power on gaming, whereas a PC has to allocate its power accordingly. FM4, for example, would run flawlessly on the new XBone. FM5 runs great, too, but it has its short comings.

The problem with the XBone is the competition. When Microsoft originally displayed the games coming out for the new console, they were running their demos on PC's running on Windows 7 with Titan GPU's. Sony has taken a HUGE step up from the PS3's overly-complicated Cell structure, but Microsoft, unfortunately, hasn't taken as large of a step. That's the problem with the XBone. Combine that with the fact that the XBone's apps and OS take up a large amount of the 8GB of DDR3 memory that it has, and you've got something that no longer is a gaming console. You have now reached the same level as mid-low end PC's that have to allocate its resources towards gaming. The PS4, however, is way more "gaming" oriented, with a whopping 8GB of GDDR5 (trust me, only first party games will come anywhere close to using all of that) and the new GPU and CPU structure allows for game development very similar to PC's.

One of my clients as a Computer Engineer worked at an Arts Institute in San Francisco. He had worked at studios such as Insomniac, Tell Tale Games, Rockstar and one more that I don't remember (I think the studio that made God of War.) Anyway, I had asked him if multiplatform games will suffer because of the XBone, and his answer was a "Yes and No" type. For starters, many developers are starting development on the PS4 these days, mainly due to how well oriented towards gaming it is, as I mentioned earlier. The problem that the XBone faces is that if developers are starting development on a much more powerful system, like the PS4, then there will often be problems or shortcomings, like how Call of Duty couldn't run at 1080 and 60FPS on the XBone, thus having it dowgraded to 720 and upscaled. The developer didn't found out about this issue until they started applying the game onto the XBone console, but the title was originally developed for....you guessed it, with the PS4 and PC in mind.

The XBone is falling behind in this marathon and when the pace quickens up, it will run out of breath very quickly.

Yeah, I've mentioned that story with the T10 lads a couple of times before. It's my most solid argument in these conversations, haha.

Great info there. I hesitate to get the X1, cos' I know all the boatload of features it has, will go to complete waste. I want to buy a console for just gaming, nothing else. All that RAM and processing power will literally be collecting dust. Isn't there a way to disable those apps or cut out certain processes from the OS to make more power and memory available for games?

As far as the PS4 goes, I've been viewing some charts myself, where most multi-plat games on the PS4 are outperforming the X1; 60 fps @1080p as opposed to 720p or 900p @ 30 fps for the X1.

Hmm... looks like Sony's learned from their mistakes.

I'm just not seeing the games coming out on the PS4 ATM. I guess I'll have to wait till PCARS and GT7 to see if the PS4 really is for me. I'm approaching my mid-30s now, and I guess I've generally lost interest in games. Driving simulators is what I'll be sticking to mostly. Though I don't mind the occasional third/first-person testosterone boosting fest every now and then: Gears of War, the Batman games, Max Payne, Call of Duty/Battlefield.. you get the idea!
Going to miss Forza for sure...

In this tech interview "The making of Forza Horizon 2" they say that the underlying simulation is the same as in FM5 but the handling was changed to make it more forgiving and fun.

Most of the stuff is very technical but it makes a good read. Do you guys think they are full of crap?


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2014-the-making-of-forza-horizon-2

Digital Foundry: Are we essentially looking at the same Forza simulation system as that found in FM5? Or did the open world and various terrain types and weather systems necessitate enhancing the existing tech?

Matt Craven:We run the same physics engine that can be found in FM5, so it has all the same depth and sophistication. Our handling model is designed to be more forgiving and our car handling designers do an excellent job of setting up the cars to ensure that driving around our world is a fun experience. With the addition of dynamic weather we had to make some changes to enable the player to feel a change in handling when driving in the wet, but we still kept it accessible and fun.


Digital Foundry: Similar to the original Horizon on Xbox 360, you're aiming for a totally locked 30fps in the sequel. But that's just the rendering - what are the refresh rates of the underlying simulation?

Matt Craven: The simulation runs at 360Hz so we maintain the same level of detail as found in FM5.

I say hogwash!

 

[SimTourist]

The problem with the XBone is the competition. When Microsoft originally displayed the games coming out for the new console, they were running their demos on PC's running on Windows 7 with Titan GPU's. Sony has taken a HUGE step up from the PS3's overly-complicated Cell structure, but Microsoft, unfortunately, hasn't taken as large of a step. That's the problem with the XBone. Combine that with the fact that the XBone's apps and OS take up a large amount of the 8GB of DDR3 memory that it has, and you've got something that no longer is a gaming console. You have now reached the same level as mid-low end PC's that have to allocate its resources towards gaming. The PS4, however, is way more "gaming" oriented, with a whopping 8GB of GDDR5 (trust me, only first party games will come anywhere close to using all of that) and the new GPU and CPU structure allows for game development very similar to PC's.

You're a bit wrong there, both consoles have 8 gigs of RAM and both reserve 3 Gb for OS. So apart from memory type they have the same partition between games and OS. Both consoles have essentially the same CPUs , Xbone's is actually clocked slightly higher. The main difference is in the GPU which is theoretically 40% faster in the PS4. In practice though apart from lower resolution in some games I haven't seen a massive difference in graphics between the 2 platforms. Both are still improving tools and APIs so we're far from seeing their true potential, both have beautiful games and both are plenty powerful in my book.

 

[TheCrazySwede]

You're a bit wrong there, both consoles have 8 gigs of RAM and both reserve 3 Gb for OS. So apart from memory type they have the same partition between games and OS. Both consoles have essentially the same CPUs , Xbone's is actually clocked slightly higher. The main difference is in the GPU which is theoretically 40% faster in the PS4. In practice though apart from lower resolution in some games I haven't seen a massive difference in graphics between the 2 platforms. Both are still improving tools and APIs so we're far from seeing their true potential, both have beautiful games and both are plenty powerful in my book.

Apart from the memory type? Man, I could write for hours about the difference between DDR3 and GDDR5. Mind you, the XBone also has 32MB of ESRAM, but even that didn't really help out the devs as much as it initially was thought to do. CPU's are pretty irrelevant in consoles, actually. Compared to PC's, a console's CPU requires only a fraction of functionality, as it doesn't need to be catered and configured for a vast range of software, drivers, hardware changes, OS bloat, and concurrent processes. Heck, even XP ran on a crappy CPU will run fine with 512MB of RAM. A console's CPU is way more streamlined. According to some Futuremark tests, memory differences according to GPU structure played a huge difference compared to CPU.

For example, when I benchmark the two CPU's ( Athlon II X2 and the Intel Core i7 3960X,) games such as Black Ops 2 only saw a 37% increase in the benchmark rating. When comparing the same game with GPU differences (GTX 550 Ti to the GTX Titan) the same game saw a 572% difference. Don't believe me? Test it for yourself. The same results occur no matter what game you benchmark. The GDDR5 memory, in very, very simple terms, is much more GPU oriented. Sony has focused less on the CPU (something they have learned from their mistakes with the PS3) and have opted for a more GPU oriented machine, which is exactly what these games need.

Remember when I mentioned that I got to speak to a gentleman who had worked at many game studios and he gave me a "Yes and No" answer when I asked him if the XBone was crippling games? The Yes answer refers to the need to slightly adjust the games for the XBone due to most games being developed for the PS4. The "No" part refers to multi-platform games. He put it like this. Imagine two sprinters having both of their legs tied together. One sprinter is very fast, and the other is decently fast. No matter how quickly the fast one wants to run, it has to keep a similar pace as the slower guy, because the games are meant to run the same on all platforms. Where this will not be the case is in first party games where there is no rope tied between them and they can run as fast as they like. In a few years from now, compare the ways first party games run on the PS4 vs. how they run on the XBone. The PS4 will be miles ahead, I promise you that.

 

[Speedster911]

You're a bit wrong there, both consoles have 8 gigs of RAM and both reserve 3 Gb for OS. So apart from memory type they have the same partition between games and OS. Both consoles have essentially the same CPUs , Xbone's is actually clocked slightly higher. The main difference is in the GPU which is theoretically 40% faster in the PS4. In practice though apart from lower resolution in some games I haven't seen a massive difference in graphics between the 2 platforms. Both are still improving tools and APIs so we're far from seeing their true potential, both have beautiful games and both are plenty powerful in my book.

Crazy Swede knows what he speaks of. He happens to be a computer hardware engineer by profession (apart from pro racing), a seasoned one at that. He knows his stuff bro! GPU matters. Sony has quite humbly learned from their mistakes. As for the MS console, it probably won't see the same success and domination the killer/classic/soon to be vintage X360 did. <--- Man, I love this console.. probably never selling it.

 

[UKMikey]

In a few years from now, compare the ways first party games run on the PS4 vs. how they run on the XBone. The PS4 will be miles ahead, I promise you that.

It sounds difficult to compare one console's first party game against another different console's. It's like saying this apple is sweeter than that orange.

I sure would like a decent first party racer to give me some justification for buying a PS4 though. They sound like terrific machines.

 

[Havok_]

Hey guys, just wanted to throw in my 2 cents on this thread. I played Forza 4 once...That's all it took. The next week I bought a new Xbox 360 with a copy of F4. It has been a really long time since I enjoyed a racing game as muh as F4. The challenge, the wide selectio nof cars and the sounds. OMG.

So after geeking out for months of F4, I saw a youtube video of the Lotus F1 car on Yas Marina in F5. (SOLD)

That weekend I went to my local Best Buy and picked up the F5 bundle XB1. OH myyyyyy...First of all, I am not goign bash on GT6 but IMO Forza does everything GT lacks. The whole experience is so visceral, I love F5 (as well as F4).

Ripping up the tracks in Rival mode, drooling in ForzaVista or simply watching my replays, it really is one of the games that regardless of what your preference is in gaming systems, you have to try. I would have loved more of the F4 tracks in F5 but I'll take it. Mugello and Maple Valley were two of my favorite test tracks, also a dedicated TT mode would where you could race your own ghosts would be awesome.

All in all, I really like this game. Graphics are stunning, gameplay is wicked fun and the car selection is fantastic. Niki Lauda's Ferrari...Enough said.

 

[TheCrazySwede]

It sounds difficult to compare one console's first party game against another different console's. It's like saying this apple is sweeter than that orange.

I sure would like a decent first party racer to give me some justification for buying a PS4 though. They sound like terrific machines.

Perhaps I should have worded that better.
What I mean is comparing how the devs utilize the console's power. Despite the PS3's complicated architecture, look at games such as Uncharted 3, The Last of US (Both ND) and even GT6. TLOU in particular is gorgeous, runs great and when compared side by side with the PS4 version, holds up on its own very well. They really squeezed out every drop out of the PS3 on that title, same with GT6. Imagine how much more they can utilize with the PS4. Games on the XBone won't be able use the same sort of technology and power and it will be noticeable in the future.