Religion is contrived

[PS]

You said "how do people fail God?" I told you that it's not possible for me to know exactly how someone else fails God. But that we all do. I also stated that not all suffering comes from failure.

So it's possible for man to fail god, but not for god to fail man?

They failed him, went into captivity, persecutition or your favorite word exploitation.

They failed him and went into captivity. HOW did they fail him? HOW.

Two, how is
*snip*
Not answering your question?

It doesn't say HOW we failed him. Or how he failed us for that matter.

One, He makes an assumption that atheists must think that man is great because they don't believe in God.

Ding ding ding.

And atheists do think man is great, according to them, man is the most advanced life form that they know of.

...the ignorant atheists, which may be the only ones you know. Anyone should know that the most advanced being on earth is all of them. They're all currently at their prime point of evolution, and will always be at their prime point of evolution. It's just not physically possible to genetically receed because if they did, the species wouldn't survive and thus would become extinct, leaving again, only the most advanced species. Every creature on Earth, is the most advanced form of life.

i hate hearing that from atheists.. "i believe in MYSELF"...

So we're supposed to be miserable, self-loathing, self-esteem-lacking spineless slobs? We need to rely on someone else just to perform our duties? I think not.

Human nature isn't an excuse, it's a choice. We're beyond primal instinct, we are self thinking individuals with freedom of choice. Selflessness would work if it was practiced by the individual on a global scale.

Human nature IS the way you think. It's both conscious and sub-conscious, and the sub-counscious is damn hard to control, I'm afraid to say.

Well, if that's how you interpret it. I see God's hand at providing the food and we have to be good stewards and make sure everyone doesn't go hungry.

Well then why doesn't he provide it to countries that actually NEED the food. Canada and America are getting morbidly obese and provide more than enough food to provide for ourselves. It seems like it's about time for God to stop favouring North America if you ask me.

You say God doesn't provide rain?

Not in Africa.

See my prior posts, I'm starting to get dizzy running around in circles on this one.

Well then stop running around in circles and get strait to the point.

Ultimately, I want to know...

1. Obviously man can fail God, but HOW does/did he do that?
2. Can God fail man, or is he too good for that?
3. If God is all-powerfull why can't he end the 2000 years war in the middle East and convert them all to Christians? Or Jews? Or Catholics? Or whatever the "right" religion is.
4. If God makes it rain and gives food why doesn't he give it to the countires that really need it?
5. Why must atheists have to rely on someone for support? Why should anyone rely on anyone for support? Once that pillar comes down, you have nothing to support you and you've screwed yourself.
6. Howcome all the south/central Americans and Egytpians had huge prosperous civilizations and advanced technology when none of them worshipped a single God? One member claims that God provided men with the knowledge of "name animals, cultivating the land and building huts etc". So how did the Egyptians, Aztecs, Mayans, and Chinese do all this thousands of years before Christ even existed?

 

[Swift]

Yo, PS. your an atheist right? So what does it matter what God does. You don't believe he exists anyway. You haven't read the bible, or at least not enough to know simple answers like how the hebrews failed God over and over.

So what's the point of me answering all your questions when you're not even open to the though that he exists?

 

[Famine]

Think of it as leading him down the path to enlightenment.

 

[Swift]

Think of it as leading him down the path to enlightenment.

That's what I've been trying to do for about 10 pages now. But nothing seems to get through.

 

[Famine]

Now you know how scientists feel when trying to explain counterintuitive concepts to pig-headed beliefophiles.

But you have to try anyway. After all, if we all gave up because our audience wasn't listening we'd be educationally stuck in the Dark Ages right now, with science classes full of Biblical nons... oh...

 

[Swift]

Now you know how scientists feel when trying to explain counterintuitive concepts to pig-headed beliefophiles.

But you have to try anyway. After all, if we all gave up because our audience wasn't listening we'd be educationally stuck in the Dark Ages right now, with science classes full of Biblical nons... oh...

Yeah, that was cute. Whatever bud.

 

[PS]

I wasn't entirely sure where to ask this, but are there any devout Catholics here who I can ask a question?


[edit]

Yes, I'm serious. Is someone here Catholic, or a Theologist?

 

[ledhed]

Now you know how scientists feel when trying to explain counterintuitive concepts to pig-headed beliefophiles.

But you have to try anyway. After all, if we all gave up because our audience wasn't listening we'd be educationally stuck in the Dark Ages right now, with science classes full of Biblical nons... oh...

* ding ! *



Next round .....

 

[PS]

"God is a hallucination - a delusional crutch for those too weak to accept that life is meaningless"

I'm not so sure how true this is, but what are everyone elses thoughts on this?

 

[Zardoz]

Life is not meaningless at all. But it isn't eternal. Nothing endures. Even the stars eventually run out of fuel and die.

So do we. That's a very tough concept for most people to accept, so they choose to believe that somehow they will exist after the electrical activity in their brain stops.

 

[Swift]

Life is not meaningless at all. But it isn't eternal. Nothing endures. Even the stars eventually run out of fuel and die.

So do we. That's a very tough concept for most people to accept, so they choose to believe that somehow they will exist after the electrical activity in their brain stops.

So you quantify you entire existance(something you can't completely comprehend) to something you can comprehend(the stars burning out) and make the conclusion that there is no part of you that outlives your body?

Would that be a correct summary of your position?

 

[(G)]

Swift... you're proving his point.

 

[Zardoz]

So you quantify you entire existance(something you can't completely comprehend) to something you can comprehend(the stars burning out) and make the conclusion that there is no part of you that outlives your body?

Would that be a correct summary of your position?

Yes, because I have never encountered anything, of any sort, that would lead me to any other conclusion. I've looked at all the belief systems, and I just can't buy into any of them. It seems that I would have to delude myself in order to do so.

I'm in a small minority of the global population, of course. The one characteristic that unites us all is our need to believe in our immortality:

 

[PS]

I've always wondered what religious pie looked like.

 

[Swift]

Yes, because I have never encountered anything, of any sort, that would lead me to any other conclusion. I've looked at all the belief systems, and I just can't buy into any of them. It seems that I would have to delude myself in order to do so.

I'm in a small minority of the global population, of course. The one characteristic that unites us all is our need to believe in our immortality:

Thanks for the graph.

So, you would say that your life is only this world. It came from nothing and is going back to nothing?

 

[PS]

Thanks for the graph.

So, you would say that your life is only this world. It came from nothing and is going back to nothing?

It came from sperm and egg, but he had no existence before then and will have no existence after he dies. I believe that's what he's saying.

 

[Swift]

It came from sperm and egg, but he had no existence before then and will have no existence after he dies. I believe that's what he's saying.

And that's what you believe correct?

Swift... you're proving his point.

Actually, I was making a point that he can't comprehend his existance, so how does he know he came from and is going into nothing?

 

[Zardoz]

...Actually, I was making a point that he can't comprehend his existance, so how does he know he came from and is going into nothing?

Ah, but I do comprehend my existence. I am a member of a species that developed intelligence long ago, has now figured out enough to get itself into real trouble, threatens its own existence as well as that of all the other life forms it shares its little planet with, and may or may not survive into the distant future to learn more about itself and the universe it exists in.

I know where I came from: Countless generations of ancestors, going back farther than I will ever comprehend. But the fact that I can't comprehend my origins doesn't scare me or bother me in any way. I accept what I am, and I accept that I will eventually cease to exist. I'm glad I was here, and I'll be glad to move out of the way to make room for somebody else.

I don't need to talk myself into believing that there's more to it than that.

 

[Swift]

Ah, but I do comprehend my existence. I am a member of a species that developed intelligence long ago, has now figured out enough to get itself into real trouble, threatens its own existence as well as that of all the other life forms it shares its little planet with, and may or may not survive into the distant future to learn more about itself and the universe it exists in.

I know where I came from: Countless generations of ancestors, going back farther than I will ever comprehend. But the fact that I can't comprehend my origins doesn't scare me or bother me in any way. I accept what I am, and I accept that I will eventually cease to exist. I'm glad I was here, and I'll be glad to move out of the way to make room for somebody else.

I don't need to talk myself into believing that there's more to it than that.

You remind me of danoff.

So, since you don't believe any of the established religons, you've dismissed the possiblity of an intangible part of your being?

 

[Zardoz]

...you've dismissed the possiblity of an intangible part of your being?

Yes. I've got a real problem with concepts like "intangible", "belief", "faith", and "spiritual". To me they all refer to the same thing: Wishful thinking.

I have a friend who seriously believes in ghosts. As you might expect, she says she's had at least a half-dozen ghostly encounters. She feels that her late mother is watching over her.

Her belief makes it real to her. I can't do that. I can't make something real to me just by believing in it.

 

[Swift]

Yes. I've got a real problem with concepts like "intangible", "belief", "faith", and "spiritual". To me they all refer to the same thing: Wishful thinking.

I have a friend who seriously believes in ghosts. As you might expect, she says she's had at least a half-dozen ghostly encounters. She feels that her late mother is watching over her.

Her belief makes it real to her. I can't do that. I can't make something real to me just by believing in it.

There is a part of you that cannot be calculated on any instruments that we have. You can't put someone through a cat scan and then say, "See, there's the personality" and so forth and so on.

All I'm saying is that there is something more to life then the body.

 

[Famine]

Just on the topic of that graph, the five highest religions by response rate on the 2001 Census in the UK were:

1. Christianity (and denominations)
2. Islam (and denominations)
3. Hinduism (and denominations)
4. Jedi
5. Judaism (and denominations)

 

[Zardoz]

4. Jedi

You gotta be kidding...

 

[Famine]

Nope. 0.7% of the UK declared themselves as Jedi in the last Census.

 

[Swift]

Nope. 0.7% of the UK declared themselves as Jedi in the last Census.

That's so funny and really really proves the title of this thread.

 

[PS]

And that's what you believe correct?

Yes...and? Your point?


If you're incinuating I didn't come as the by-product of a sperm joining an egg then you must be nuts.


. . .but I'll hear you out.

 

[Swift]

Yes...and? Your point?


If you're incinuating I didn't come as the by-product of a sperm joining an egg then you must be nuts.


. . .but I'll hear you out.

Nope, not at all. But when people say that all there is to life is the body, that always strikes me as odd. I mean, does a person that looses an arm or a leg have less of a life?

 

[PS]

Nope, not at all. But when people say that all there is to life is the body, that always strikes me as odd. I mean, does a person that looses an arm or a leg have less of a life?

I think the ability to provide its' own food pretty much constitutes as life. If you can't even provide your own food, what's the point of "living"?

 

[Swift]

I think the ability to provide its' own food pretty much constitutes as life. If you can't even provide your own food, what's the point of "living"?

So a mentally handicapped person or a quadrapolegic has no point in living?

 

[PS]

So a mentally handicapped person or a quadrapolegic has no point in living?

I don't imagine a quadrapolegic feels very happy being spoonfed every day, unless he/she has set some goals. The mentally handicapped are usually pretty happy, though. My limit didn't end there, tho', so don't take it too literally/seriously.