Reputation Points - Discussion

[McLaren]

All the time? I'm 16, I have exams, I have alot of thinsg to do, as do alot of people. Now some of you manage to make every post Gold, on the other hand I cannot, I simply can't keep my brain engaged 16 hours a day.

I liked the quality posts points because it gave me a chance to see whether my bad posts were beginning to outweight my good ones. I make the occasional bad post, but usually the mindset I'm in when I make it doesn't stop me from making it.

Before, I may have had to wait for a mod to tell me I'm spamming, not that one ever has but prevention is always better than repair. The quality posts was my early warning system.

No one's saying all your posts have to be Quality.
I'm just saying, when you make a post, look at it. Does that look like a quality post? And we all make post that aren't worthy of rep.

But we all should know when we are. I've noticed, a lot of my rep. came from posts I really put thought into. Did I expect rep for them? Yes, because out of my posts, those were the ones that would deserve it, not my ones complimenting a video.

 

[livemusic]

I liked that we can't see how many points we have anymore. So simple, yet so efficient. 👍

 

[DuckRacer]

All the time? I'm 16, I have exams, I have alot of thinsg to do, as do alot of people. Now some of you manage to make every post Gold, on the other hand I cannot, I simply can't keep my brain engaged 16 hours a day.

I liked the quality posts points because it gave me a chance to see whether my bad posts were beginning to outweight my good ones. I make the occasional bad post, but usually the mindset I'm in when I make it doesn't stop me from making it.

Before, I may have had to wait for a mod to tell me I'm spamming, not that one ever has but prevention is always better than repair. The quality posts was my early warning system.

Well, every time I'm ready to post something, I read it over. Sometimes it doesn't make sense, sometimes it's off-topic, sometimes it's stupid. If I never previewed my posts, I would probably have a lot less rep, and double the amount of posts.

*clicks "preview post" button*

 

[Super T]

Well the invisible thing is working for me. I can't find out the points so now I don't really care about the points anymore, all I try to do is not to get on other people's or moderator's nerves.

Here here. 👍

 

[ExigeEvan]

Well, every time I'm ready to post something, I read it over. Sometimes it doesn't make sense, sometimes it's off-topic, sometimes it's stupid. If I never previewed my posts, I would probably have a lot less rep, and double the amount of posts.

*clicks "preview post" button*

When firing of a quick reply I rarely red through. I also rarely go to the 'advanced' window, I much prefer the quick reply button, unless of course I'm quoting.

 

[GT4_Rule]

I hardly rep these days now, and yes I do also reply pretty much the same way as you, using Quick Reply. Seems like people who use Quick Reply doesn't really pay attention to the rep system in my opinion because they're trying to post up one "quick".

 

[Gen.]

I post mainly using the quick reply way, unless I need to quote someone.

It's pretty much the same as the full mode without the click shortcuts

 

[Dave A]

I always use the quick reply button, even for quoting sometimes, and I do use the rep system, so there goes that theory.

 

[Perfect Balance]

I always use quick reply, but then after I post it, I edit out any mistakes I missed before.

 

[Keef]

Reputation discussion, eh?

For the sake of not making another thread I'll ask this here: Why can't I see any of the green or red dot-thingies in anyones' profile? I also can't see how many points I have. All I get when I click my check is the "this post has not recieved any reputation" message. I anyone else having this problem?

 

[Kylehnat]

For the sake of not making another thread I'll ask this here: Why can't I see any of the green or red dot-thingies in anyones' profile? I also can't see how many points I have.

Read the last two pages of this thread. Question answered 👍

 

[TB]

Read, keef. Read. Jordan turned parts of it off.

Edit: D'oh. Missed it by that much.

 

[Keef]

Thanks guys. I read the last page or so, but I didn't get what they were talking about.

 

[Solid Lifters]

How many different people do we need to rep before we can give rep points to somebody we've already given rep points too?

I noticed I cannot give out anymore rep points. We'll, that's not true. I can, but not the same 30 to 40 I see over, and over again. I counted at least 30 people, so far. How many is it? 50? 100?

Like I said before, I come across the same 30 to 40 people, and they usually have excellent posts I want to give rep points too, but I can't because I apparently don't come across enough people. Or, is there a longer time limit? Is it a week or month?

I read about the other changes made, but not about this, unless I missed it.

What's up?

 

[Dave A]

I seem to have ran out of people I can rep, every rep worthy post I've clicked on in the last few days barring a single one today, brings up the "you need to spread more rep around" message, I know that we had to rep 10 people before we could rep again but I have found over 10 members I can't rep because of that message. It is now a chore actually giving out rep because when I do find a post worth of it I'm finding that I think deserves rep I can't rep it, and the chances are I'm not remembering the post a week or so later when I can finally rep it, the only reason I can see this happening is that the rep 10 people between repping the same person again has been upped to 20 or something like that to stop people logrolling, but I can only see the rep system dieing quick death like this because as I said all the posts I find worth of rep can't be repped and it's getting to the stage where I'm not going to be bothering clicking the red tick because it's just wasting time. At least if I knew what was needed to rep certain people again I wouldn't be wasting time going back to a thread all the time trying to find that post again and see if today I can rep it only to find that I can't.

And as you can see, there's at least one other emmber who's noticed.

 

[Wolfe]

I seem to have ran out of people I can rep, every rep worthy post I've clicked on in the last few days barring a single one today, brings up the "you need to spread more rep around" message, I know that we had to rep 10 people before we could rep again but I have found over 10 members I can't rep because of that message. It is now a chore actually giving out rep because when I do find a post worth of it I'm finding that I think deserves rep I can't rep it, and the chances are I'm not remembering the post a week or so later when I can finally rep it, the only reason I can see this happening is that the rep 10 people between repping the same person again has been upped to 20 or something like that to stop people logrolling, but I can only see the rep system dieing quick death like this because as I said all the posts I find worth of rep can't be repped and it's getting to the stage where I'm not going to be bothering clicking the red tick because it's just wasting time. At least if I knew what was needed to rep certain people again I wouldn't be wasting time going back to a thread all the time trying to find that post again and see if today I can rep it only to find that I can't.

And as you can see, there's at least one other emmber who's noticed.

+1. You can add a third member to that list...You yourself have been denied rep from me a few times because of this feature.

 

[DuckRacer]

Couldn't there be a way to make the 10+ people limit to people without the Quality Posts badge, and let the people with the badge have their limit as 5?

 

[FormulaGT]

I have to say, sadly I might add, this 'reputation' thing seems to be falling apart. I'm going to try my best to stay onside here, but I think it's far too complicated to be sustainable. Like Live4Speed said, if you place a limit on how many +'s you can give it means that those who clearly are making quality posts may not get anything for it because User A has already given 6 or whatever posts + Rep genuinely. A defintion or two of these rep messages might help here.

Jordan, as much as you want to make us feel like we have an extended say here, this system needs to be thouroughly assessed. Maybe extend the limit to users +'ing and let the moderators do the -'ing and, to eliminate bias, we could PM or report to voice our concern over the quality. As I said before, it just doesn't seem at all sustainable. I guess my idea, in the end, would mean more work for the Moderators (It seems to go around in circles).
This might help reduce the appearance of members who have been here for a 2 week and have 1000+ posts, most of which are shallow, meaningless one liners.

Kind regards,

FormulaGT

 

[Jordan]

Solid Lifters, live4speed, and Wolfe, yes there have been some adjustments to that to ensure that people's acquired points are gathered from a wider selection of people. You bring up some good points, though, of how too high of a limit can be discouraging.

I have to say, sadly I might add, this 'reputation' thing seems to be falling apart.

The only thing really wrong with the reputation system is how badly it is misunderstood. We actually do have many people here who have been with GTPlanet for several years and have made incalculable contributions to the community. That's who this badge is for - those with us for the long haul who really care about the site. When you look at it from that perspective, it seems to be working fairly well.

 

[Dave A]

The main thing for me is as Solid pointed out, you tend to see the same people deserving of rep more often than others who may make the odd rep worthy post, so it means a rather long interbal before being able to rep any thoes more regular quality posters, quality posts. That said, I suppose the other side of it is that if people are giving rep properly then even if you can't rep that post it should still be being repped by other people who can rep it. Like you said it's a system that can and will change over time to avoid it being miss-used, as long as your onto it and it's not just going to stop being used and left to die then that's good.

 

[FormulaGT]

I'm not for it being removed, I was just stating that it's effectiveness is very much dictated peoples opinions/evaluations of the given poster, and having to remove the ability to see someones 'progress' just shows that it's clearly being misused. Yes, obviously there are those who have made countless contributions, No Doubt, but it's the lesser who make the occasional 'good' post (Whatever YOU may class good as) who seem to suffer here. They're the ones who usually don't get any credit. On one hand it's good to have a badge to to show their posting ability, but then again, all it is based on is a number points rather than any sort of consideration process to legitimately determine that they've earned the badge. Being realistic, the system will never be clean and scrapping it would remove some of the zip from the site, so why not have a board of selectors/adjudicators to evaluate each members eligibility for the badge, say, (still using the points system here), after a set number points? It would mean that it would be awarded to those that are clearly proficient in their posts, rather, (and definately not saying this is the case) it being awarded to those who had the benefit of a few helping hands.

*NB:This post is not intended to take away from those members who have clearly contributed, it is merely a generalisation.

FormulaGT

 

[exigeracer]

but it's the lesser who make the occasional 'good' post (Whatever YOU may class good as) who seem to suffer here. They're the ones who usually don't get any credit. On one hand it's good to have a badge to to show their posting ability, but then again, all it is based on is a number points rather than any sort of consideration process to legitimately determine that they've earned the badge.

I wholely agree here. I qualify in this section of members who make the occassional decent post, and my rep points (when I could check them) was somewhere in the mid-double-digits. Now I cannot even see if I'm doing fair or not. If the next low-poster comes along and gets rep here and there, they won't even know anymore until they get a badge, when they will say "I guess I was doing things right all along." So where is the system encouraging good quality if nobody can actually know if they are doing good or not?

Lock up a person in a room and tell them that when the door is unlocked, they have to be a world-class singer. Give them their time in solitude and they will not emerge a good singer. They need to be told about their abilities along the way for them to improve or not.

This system clearly doesn't promote better posting if I cannot tell if I am posting well or not. I will not go through almost 500 posts to find which 7 were worthy enough of a green checkmark and evaluate why they were good.

For me, after 3 years and 2000 posts, I had the chance to see that I won't ever get the badge, but those who weren't and aren't able to see their rep amount will never know if they are doing good or not. The badge will only be a tool of distancing the old members from the newer ones, making a line in the member list and adding a touch of snob to the crowd.

I fail to see where the system helps. The people who currently have the badge *hopefully* don't need it to know if they're helping, they already do.

 

[McLaren]

He took the words out of my mouth, and I whole heartedly agree.👍

 

[Dave A]

You make a very good point there exigeracer, as you said, people with the badge don't need to see thier points because they know they have the badge and thats it. People without it though won't check thier posts one by one to see if they have and rep points on the off change they did get some last night.

However and this is a big however, it doesn't take an IQ of 1000 to work out what a good quality post is or isn't. If you read Jordans last post he said that the system is more to reward people who have been on here for a long time and over the years have contributeed to the site a lot. The key is consistency, no matter how the system works not every good quality post you make will be seen and rewarded with points. A new member may start off making good posts, but the key is still consistency, if in 6 months time he's still making good posts he might be well on his way to earning the badge.

I think two things may have contributed most to the change in system are firstly, a few people had started viewing points as penis extensions, and secondly people were starting to get the badge too fast thanks to various different things including possibly logrolling. Looking at the system as a long term system it's not bad, if you expect people to join and have the badge in a matter of a few weeks or a couple of months then the system wont seem right to you, but if you view it as a long term thing where a new member may in a years time get the badge, then it fits perfectly imo.

The key to getting the badge is consitent quality posts not the odd one or two in every 20 you make, be consistent and you will get noticed and you will get the badge, but it will take some time.

The only thing I do think may need looking at is the number of posts you need to rep before repping the same person again, I was waiting ages to rep a particular post and now I can't even remember where that post is. I don't want to rep someone for the sake of repping them so I can get round to repping someone who deseves it, I won't do that. But it's a possibity that it could happen on the site, I don't mind there being more than 10 people but whatever figure it's set at now seems too high. Have you thought about having it done by number of people or a period of time (if it can be done in the first place that is)? For example, if for example, I rep McLaren, I need to either rep another 20 people before I can re-rep McLaren or I can re-rep him in 7-14 days time, that means that if your not a high repper like me, and done give rep all that freeley to people you can still re-rep people when they deserve it while still making logrolling a mre work thani's worth exercise.

 

[TheCracker]

In hindsight, if Jordan had implimented the rep points system in its present format and without advertising the fact that it even existed, we would'nt have had these misunderstandings. Everyone who has the badge would still have the badge, because they deserve it. But most of the confusion and 'logrolling' that has happened could have been avoided. People have just got a little too wound-up over the whole situation.

 

[exigeracer]

You make a very good point there exigeracer, as you said, people with the badge don't need to see thier points because they know they have the badge and thats it. People without it though won't check thier posts one by one to see if they have and rep points on the off change they did get some last night.

No, you're misunderstanding me here. The people who currently have the badge do not need a badge at all to seperate them from the others. They, and everyone else who cares about the well-being of GTP, will know they are posting quality material by the respect they receive from other members, young, old, mods and regulars.

Did the reputation point system change the way you posted after it was inaugurated? What about after you received the badge? You haven't seemed to change, and I don't look at you different at all now that you have the badge, I knew you had good things to say and helpful things to say right from the start, same with Famine, or G.T or small_fryz or almost everybody else with the badge. I don't need a badge to differentiate one poster from the other, and my feeling is that neither should you, a badgeholder.

But there has been at least one poster that I can think of that has received his badge and, in my clear opinion, doesn't deserve it at all. He hasn't been here close to long enough (by your standards) or post personal helpful content to do have earned the badge.

 

[Swift]

In hindsight, if Jordan had implimented the rep points system in its present format and without advertising the fact that it even existed, we would'nt have had these misunderstandings. Everyone who has the badge would still have the badge, because they deserve it. But most of the confusion and 'logrolling' that has happened could have been avoided. People have just got a little too wound-up over the whole situation.

That's actually a very good point.

 

[Diego440]

But there has been at least one poster that I can think of that has received his badge and, in my clear opinion, doesn't deserve it at all. He hasn't been here close to long enough (by your standards) or post personal helpful content to do have earned the badge.

Just one?



Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

 

[exigeracer]

I am just saying I don't think that the people who deserved the badge need it to know that they're posting good, and the rest of us without badges don't need them either to know who is a positive influence on the rest of the site. On top of that, we cannot see if we are doing good or not anymore, so there is no way to improve ourselves.

If we were to compile a list of who would eventually get the badge when the system was introduced, I am sure it would directly match the current list of badge-bearing posters, ecxept those who somehow don't deserve it. This says two things, those who deserved it were already distinguished enough to have respect among the "public", making a badge to seperate them meaningless, and it shows the failure of the points system for those who simply whored up enough posts to get the badge. Either way, nobody is benefiting. I hope at least one person understands what I am trying to say here.

If anyone can confirm this from both badge-bearing side and badgeless side, then I won't be alone in seeing the failure of the system on these three arguments.

edit: yeah Diego, you certainly don't deserve it, you no-good post-slut!

 

[Dave A]

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, I don't think the badge is a bad thing in principal, but like you, I don't need to see a badge on a user to know they're good posts, look at the "Get Swift a Badge" thread that was created in the rumble strip to see that it's not just me and you. A lot of people knew he deserved one long before he got one and I can say that I thought that about many of the members that have one before they got one themselves. The system is sound, the problem is the users, someone at some point turns it into a "mine is bigger than yours" contest, it will always happen, it's just a question of when.

In my view the badge is still something for a user to work towards, not being able to see your rep points isn't a big thing though imo because you can still view comments after your post, picking up on your points or replying directly etc. Like I said before, you don't need any superior intelligence to work out if your post is a good one or not, if your posts are consistenly good you will eventually get the badge, not knowing how close to getting it you are might be frustrating, but the fact that it prevents pissing contensts is a bigger plus than that is a negative imo.

You points about people whoring the system are valid but that's why Jordan has chnged it, so it's a lot harder to manipulate the system. I understand what your saying, I just don't see the system as useless or pointless, it's something newer members can see and hopefully try to achieve properly.