Requesting Detailed Drift example

  • Thread starter clanegie
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i started drifting few days ago, and learnt to do so from a friend. so ill give you a crash course, which should make it pretty easy for you to at least get sideways..

k first your car... get the sileighty or one of the D1 drift cars (rx7 or the blitz r34)
goto tuning shop, put n2 tyres on your car. buy sum performance bits to get you to sumwhere between 300-400hp. MAKE SURE YOU BUY THE BEST SUSPENSION. (as in fully customisable)

NEXT..
goto driving park (motorland course) ..
goto settings before you start the race..
set ALL driving aids to zero (traction control etc etc)

goto suspension adjust your spring rate to sumthing like 6.0 front and 5.0 rear (so long as ur rear is a little less) and maybe lower ur car a little, adjust the cambers to say 3.0 at the front and 1.0 at the rear..
OR alternatively visit this thread...https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72878 find the car ur using and set it up from one of the guides.

OK now ur ready to slide.

to get sideways in most cars you can either,
feint (joystick left then right for a right hand corner..)

power over ( stick it in 2nd gear and rev the **** out of it until ur sideways)

braking..(just brake for a sec then because ur cars weight is on the front wheels if you accelerate and turn you will go sideways)

etc etc (cbf)

ok now ur sideways:

fundamentals... accelerating is gonna make you go more sideways. so if ur close to 90 degrees... STOP accelerating

turning is gonna make you do the opposite.

so really once ur sideways... opposite lock(hard left on a right hand corner) and accelerate and only accelerate enough to keep you drifting.. dont go over board or ull end up past sideways.

if you still cant drift..then i dunno get sumone to explain it to you in 5 yr old terms or sumthing cos thats about as basic as a drift guide gets.
 
i started drifting few days ago, and learnt to do so from a friend. so ill give you a crash course, which should make it pretty easy for you to at least get sideways..

k first your car... get the sileighty or one of the D1 drift cars (rx7 or the blitz r34)
goto tuning shop, put n2 tyres on your car. buy sum performance bits to get you to sumwhere between 300-400hp. MAKE SURE YOU BUY THE BEST SUSPENSION. (as in fully customisable)

NEXT..
goto driving park (motorland course) ..
goto settings before you start the race..
set ALL driving aids to zero (traction control etc etc)

goto suspension adjust your spring rate to sumthing like 6.0 front and 5.0 rear (so long as ur rear is a little less) and maybe lower ur car a little, adjust the cambers to say 3.0 at the front and 1.0 at the rear..
OR alternatively visit this thread...https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72878 find the car ur using and set it up from one of the guides.

OK now ur ready to slide.

to get sideways in most cars you can either,
feint (joystick left then right for a right hand corner..)

power over ( stick it in 2nd gear and rev the **** out of it until ur sideways)

braking..(just brake for a sec then because ur cars weight is on the front wheels if you accelerate and turn you will go sideways)

etc etc (cbf)

ok now ur sideways:

fundamentals... accelerating is gonna make you go more sideways. so if ur close to 90 degrees... STOP accelerating

turning is gonna make you do the opposite.

so really once ur sideways... opposite lock(hard left on a right hand corner) and accelerate and only accelerate enough to keep you drifting.. dont go over board or ull end up past sideways.

if you still cant drift..then i dunno get sumone to explain it to you in 5 yr old terms or sumthing cos thats about as basic as a drift guide gets.
AUP
No slang words that promote laziness, ie; "r", "u", "plz", etc. will be tolerated. Decent grammar is expected, including proper usage of capital letters. Repeated violations will be grounds for suspension and/or permanent removal from the forums.
Yeah.... Please type right. I can barely understand it myself.
 
i started drifting few days ago, and learnt to do so from a friend. so ill give you a crash course, which should make it pretty easy for you to at least get sideways..

k first your car... get the sileighty or one of the D1 drift cars (rx7 or the blitz r34)
goto tuning shop, put n2 tyres on your car. buy sum performance bits to get you to sumwhere between 300-400hp. MAKE SURE YOU BUY THE BEST SUSPENSION. (as in fully customisable)

NEXT..
goto driving park (motorland course) ..
goto settings before you start the race..
set ALL driving aids to zero (traction control etc etc)

goto suspension adjust your spring rate to sumthing like 6.0 front and 5.0 rear (so long as ur rear is a little less) and maybe lower ur car a little, adjust the cambers to say 3.0 at the front and 1.0 at the rear..
OR alternatively visit this thread...https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/showthread.php?t=72878 find the car ur using and set it up from one of the guides.

OK now ur ready to slide.

to get sideways in most cars you can either,
feint (joystick left then right for a right hand corner..)

power over ( stick it in 2nd gear and rev the **** out of it until ur sideways)

braking..(just brake for a sec then because ur cars weight is on the front wheels if you accelerate and turn you will go sideways)

etc etc (cbf)

ok now ur sideways:

fundamentals... accelerating is gonna make you go more sideways. so if ur close to 90 degrees... STOP accelerating

turning is gonna make you do the opposite.

so really once ur sideways... opposite lock(hard left on a right hand corner) and accelerate and only accelerate enough to keep you drifting.. dont go over board or ull end up past sideways.

if you still cant drift..then i dunno get sumone to explain it to you in 5 yr old terms or sumthing cos thats about as basic as a drift guide gets.

Thanks!! I appreciate your kindess for willing to provide me such a long description on drifting. I will try to work it out soon and let you knowif i have some positive outcome on drifting. Quite busy with work lately..

Clanegie.
 
Oh my god, i was QUICKLY typing a QUICK guide to help out this guy.

You can understand it 100% you're just saying that.
AUP
No slang words that promote laziness, ie; "r", "u", "plz", etc. will be tolerated. Decent grammar is expected, including proper usage of capital letters. Repeated violations will be grounds for suspension and/or permanent removal from the forums.
Yeah... about this rule
 
Hi Brudders, I'm new here. Have yet to know any drifters here yet. But i'm completely a noob at how to drift. I had spent alot of time reading on threads here. And yes! It had been a great help, and they have gone very depth into drifting. But still, i can't do a single drift yet.

What i'm requesting is an example, a very detail example from any drifters here. So that in the future, not only me can refer to this example and get a feel of how drifting is like. I thought that this might help one is learning the technique.

Details i would like to have are like;

1. Car, model
2. Tuning that needs to be added
3. Settings
4. Technique used (clearly describe step by step) *short form might do
5. entering speed & gear
6. speed and gear when maintaining drift
7. actions and further detail when exiting the drift.
8. Maybe an video of the drifter himself drifting with steering wheel, or DS2
(I would prefer an example on a wheel)
or
9. video of GT4 drifting with camera mode which shows the speedometer at the centre.

*Take note that i am refering to one single drift, all points 1 - 9 are details belonging to one single car drifting. Hope my english is not that bad that brudders can't understand what i trying to request.

Will awaits for a reply on this!! Anxiously....

Clanegie.



Allright, im starting into drift too, been at it for about 3 weeks, and ive been so so, but spun out soo much, got tired of it. then about 20 minutes ago, i bought a 2000 Silvia Varietta (s15), and i pulled off my 1st real insane drift. with this car, im much smoother.

1.2000 Silvia Varietta (s15)
2. race exhaust, sport chip, STAGE 3 N/A TUNING (this is why its so nice, smooth power), N1 tires, tripple plate clutch, racing flywheel, carbon shaft, stage1 wieght, no aids: 262 hp
3. no tuning needed for me.
4. fient, and power over
5&6 depends
7. becuase this car is N/A, it have a very smooth power band, and wont jump rpms like a turbo would. with its lower power, and stock trani, you have the ability to simply floor it mid drift, and the tires will smoothly spin up. therefore, you have time to react and countersteer, thus making this car effective.
8. coming soon, wait an hour i guess

this car is great, simply put, a real beginer friendly drifter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgHurQDJHMg
 
Allright, im starting into drift too, been at it for about 3 weeks, and ive been so so, but spun out soo much, got tired of it. then about 20 minutes ago, i bought a 2000 Silvia Varietta (s15), and i pulled off my 1st real insane drift. with this car, im much smoother.

1.2000 Silvia Varietta (s15)
2. race exhaust, sport chip, STAGE 3 N/A TUNING (this is why its so nice, smooth power), N1 tires, tripple plate clutch, racing flywheel, carbon shaft, stage1 wieght, no aids: 262 hp
3. no tuning needed for me.
4. fient, and power over
5&6 depends
7. becuase this car is N/A, it have a very smooth power band, and wont jump rpms like a turbo would. with its lower power, and stock trani, you have the ability to simply floor it mid drift, and the tires will smoothly spin up. therefore, you have time to react and countersteer, thus making this car effective.
8. coming soon, wait an hour i guess

this car is great, simply put, a real beginer friendly drifter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TgHurQDJHMg


Nice drift from you Pal! Maybe i should get this car too.. i really need something easy to drift to start off. Til now, i'm still spinning like hell when trying to drift. I'm just trying it on an east track like the high speed ring in Japan option. Still no valid, i had tried with mazda fc, fd, toyota AE86, nissan silvia also... All can't pull off any drift. But i'm getting more easy to initiate a drift now. Its the part when i had to throttle and put counter steer that i have problems with. I will try your suggestion and hope it works. Will let you know the results! :)

Clanegie.
 
Well, I must say I am quite pleased with myself lately. After taking a little break from gt4 to finish Metal Gear Solid 2, I found that when I started playing gt4 again I was much smoother and gentler on the car.
On top of that I have now finally learnt how to drift properly(I think it was always a case of too much throttle) and even how to link corners- I linked 7 corners on autumn ring mini this morning(consistantly), but the real prover is that now I can drift the long corners like on GVS and SSR5 - thats cool.

So a big thanks to all the real drifters here who dont mind helping the new guys and to the rest of the new guys - keep practicing.
 
Thats great Pagan!

However, I'm still stuck at how to drift.. It has always been either i'm unable to get enough momentum to get my angle or i can't maintain my drift. Kinda pissed off at it already. But after seeing IDM's magazine 2, it just made me so jealous of BL, Swift and the rest of the team!!!!! Their drifting to me, are like a fantasy. I've never expected one to be able to do such drifting on GT4. Applause for the whole IDM Team!! You guys are great drifters!

But then, I would still like some help froms the "Kings" of drifting..

Does it matters which type of drift to use for each cars? Or do i need to find out which technique i will prefer to learn as to my driving technique?

Clanegie.
 
^ thanks ;)

Ideally, your cars should be able to perform a number of different drift entries and you should get familiar with all of them. Versatility is your friend - it'll get you out of a lot of tight situations.

Personally, I find that MR's are generally a bit better at lift-off and braking drifts than FR's and AWD's. ...other than that, I think MR and FR are fairly equal in terms of initiating drifts, MR's just require faster reactions once you get going.
(and anything in an AWD is akward :sly:)

Over time you will develop your own style and prefer one technique to another, and will probably start mixing things together into something new. For example, I quite like a mix of shift-lock/feint. But I'd suggest starting off by trying them all out until you can perform them whenever the situation calls for it.

If you're having trouble maintaining a drift over long corners, start on shorter corners and work your way up. Autumn Ring (full reverse, or mini), Seoul, or Trial Mountain may be suitable places to practice this.
 
Thanks for the advise BL.

Many thanks for many of your help. Thanks for your patience for helping everyone in this forum. You are a great guy!

Clanegie.
 
Does it matter which type of drift to use for each cars? Or do i need to find out which technique i will prefer to learn as to my driving technique?

This is a very good question me thinks, so I thought I'd chip in as well... I think that once you've mastered the basics you immediately start adopting a technique as "your own"... for me that is the braking drift, or variations of braking with feint, lift, shift or power. When trying to make some video examples for my guide, I actually found it hard to "switch" to another basic technique and make it look decent...

Once you've found "your" technique, I think you'll apply it to every car you drive (at least i do in some form), or use variations depending on how the corner is laid out. It probably won't matter which car it is. I do the same thing with MRs and AWDs too.. I just adapt the way I "catch" the drift. The entry much is the same.

The same also goes for the way you deal with balancing the car through a turn, or exiting. You figure out what ends up feeling natural to you, and those are the "tools" you use to get you through the corner in one piece. I've noticed that my exit "strategy" seems a bit different from a few others, and I'm sure I do some weird stuff mid drift as well..

That's what makes it so hard to tell others "how to drift". What's right for one person might be totally awkward for another.. and every personal technique prefers a certain type of car setup. I realise it's hard for beginners to understand this, but trust me.. it's all about find out what works for you. We might give you a whole bunch of techniques to try, but most of you will default to one or the other
 
Ske
This is a very good question me thinks, so I thought I'd chip in as well... I think that once you've mastered the basics you immediately start adopting a technique as "your own"... for me that is the braking drift, or variations of braking with feint, lift, shift or power. When trying to make some video examples for my guide, I actually found it hard to "switch" to another basic technique and make it look decent...
For Example, as you notice in some people settings that it tends to be more oversteer with less power but there is more power than over steer. But the rare ones is to find a even power with the same amount of oversteer that creates a sense of a "perfect Drift car"

Ske
Once you've found "your" technique, I think you'll apply it to every car you drive (at least i do in some form), or use variations depending on how the corner is laid out. It probably won't matter which car it is. I do the same thing with MRs and AWDs too.. I just adapt the way I "catch" the drift. The entry much is the same.
Well, drifting each corner you stays constant( same thing) but probably the drifters mind is different and the car might be different or the settings...I need to stop rambling..but eh

Ske
The same also goes for the way you deal with balancing the car through a turn, or exiting. You figure out what ends up feeling natural to you, and those are the "tools" you use to get you through the corner in one piece. I've noticed that my exit "strategy" seems a bit different from a few others, and I'm sure I do some weird stuff mid drift as well..

Very good post? ^^" 👍
 
Ske
This is a very good question me thinks, so I thought I'd chip in as well... I think that once you've mastered the basics you immediately start adopting a technique as "your own"... for me that is the braking drift, or variations of braking with feint, lift, shift or power. When trying to make some video examples for my guide, I actually found it hard to "switch" to another basic technique and make it look decent...

Once you've found "your" technique, I think you'll apply it to every car you drive (at least i do in some form), or use variations depending on how the corner is laid out. It probably won't matter which car it is. I do the same thing with MRs and AWDs too.. I just adapt the way I "catch" the drift. The entry much is the same.

The same also goes for the way you deal with balancing the car through a turn, or exiting. You figure out what ends up feeling natural to you, and those are the "tools" you use to get you through the corner in one piece. I've noticed that my exit "strategy" seems a bit different from a few others, and I'm sure I do some weird stuff mid drift as well..

That's what makes it so hard to tell others "how to drift". What's right for one person might be totally awkward for another.. and every personal technique prefers a certain type of car setup. I realise it's hard for beginners to understand this, but trust me.. it's all about find out what works for you. We might give you a whole bunch of techniques to try, but most of you will default to one or the other

Thats a very reasonable reply i've got for me questions! :)
Til now, i'm still learning with feint on a Madza Fc GT-X '90. Have tuned it to specs posted in the drift setting depot. However, i'm still unable to get the car to go along the curves. I can create oversteer to start the drift, but after the car over steers, it still does not goes smoothly along the curves, normally ending up on the sandbank again and again..

Now, i will just get more and more practise! I've referred to your lazy's man guide, which i found it very very useful for beginners! Thansk Ske!

Cheers!

Clanegie
 
I have been practising alot lately on drifting with Madza Rx 7 type R '91, with settings posted by BL in the DSJ thread.

However, i still can't maintain the drift with most of the time the car will not follow the curves of the hairpin of the first turn in Deep Forest. May i know why is this happening?

I'm using brakes plus feinting on the entry. I would see the entry is not that bad comparing to those i've seen BL doing it with the Silvia on video. But when it comes to maintaining the drift, or catching the drift, i'm totally on the opposite end compared to BL. If i do not brake hard enough, the car will end up in the sandbank. If i brake hard, the car stops drifting. Is this problem due to how aggresive my feint is?

Please help me, my brothers!!!!
 
Is it possible for you to post any sort of video of your drifting? Like a quick lap at Autumn Ring Mini, or the the first half of Trial Mountain, or something like that?
And which video of mine are you referring to?

There have been many good resources and tips presented here and it sounds like you've done a little bit of your own snooping around the forum as well. If you're still having large problems posting a vid might allow the rest of us to make more useful suggestions to you. There may just be one small error in your technique that you aren't catching.

Right now without actually seeing your drifts I can only suggest that you keep practicing until something starts working out, as frustrating as that may be.
If braking while drifting isn't working out, then reduce your entry speed before feinting. It may not look as pretty as braking and feinting all in one motion - but you have to take it a step at a time.


Oh, and the deep forest hairpin is a slower corner than you think. You have to scrub a ton of speed if you were just bootin it down the straight. You should be able to begin your drift around where the rumble strips on the outside of the track begin and take the apex at around 65 or 75 km/h (on N2's).
 
Is it possible for you to post any sort of video of your drifting? Like a quick lap at Autumn Ring Mini, or the the first half of Trial Mountain, or something like that?
And which video of mine are you referring to?

There have been many good resources and tips presented here and it sounds like you've done a little bit of your own snooping around the forum as well. If you're still having large problems posting a vid might allow the rest of us to make more useful suggestions to you. There may just be one small error in your technique that you aren't catching.

Right now without actually seeing your drifts I can only suggest that you keep practicing until something starts working out, as frustrating as that may be.
If braking while drifting isn't working out, then reduce your entry speed before feinting. It may not look as pretty as braking and feinting all in one motion - but you have to take it a step at a time.


Oh, and the deep forest hairpin is a slower corner than you think. You have to scrub a ton of speed if you were just bootin it down the straight. You should be able to begin your drift around where the rumble strips on the outside of the track begin and take the apex at around 65 or 75 km/h (on N2's).

Great to see you online too BL!

As for posting a video online, i doubt so. I do not have the device needed for capturing the video. And if i were to use my mobile phone's camera, it would be blur. I'm grateful for your suggestions.

The video i was using as reference for my drifting is the one u took with a silvia at deep forest for the beginner's drift competition, it was a demo for the hairpin. I'm at work now, so i can't look at the video again now. But if i'm not wrong, your entry speed is 130+ mph, and u maintain the drift at a speed of 90 mph. Is this reference abit too high for my standard to follow?

I had tried at lower speed, but the drift does not last. If it does not last long enough for the whole hairpin, will adding more throttle help?

You had advise me to use N2, but i'm using the madza rx 7 type R '91 to your specs in DSJ, which is on N3. Would you still recommend me to change it to N2?

I feel that i have done quite abit of research in this forum, looking through alot of videos and explaination you guys had offered here. I'm able to get the concept of how to get the car to drift, but when it comes to practical...... I'm like a lego toy car. :indiff:
 
hrm... that's too bad.


All speeds in my vids are in km/h, not mph. I'm Canadian afterall.
So it's no wonder you're flying off the road trying to take that apex at 90mph... that's practically double the speed I was going in that vid.

You can do whatever you like with the tyres. If I were you I'd certainly try N2's just to see how they suit you, and find your preference. That 91 RX-7 is very loose though. The objective of DSJ1 was actually to try and reduce the oversteer that car has to more manageable levels.
 
The one thing I had to get myself out of while drifting was trying to just counter steer at only one position. You have to really kinda work the steering, keeping a balance of going into too much, and not enough. When you feel it about to straighten out, lessen the countersteer, and blip the throttle. Too much angle, more countersteer, and lessen the throttle a bit, BUT DONT let off. good chances the rear tires stop rolling and you spin out, in the lift-off technique. You have to get these two things into a good habit and style. Now im at the point where I can almost consistantly drift the 1st corner of deep forest.

Im using a MR2 Supercharger. 231 hp, stock suspension, the nessacary drivetrain upgrades, stock trani, N1 tires, and if i remember right I lightened the car too. When i got this car stock, took it to the Nurb for testing, It loved lift-off and feint. Just it had an open diff, and too weak to carry drifts. Great car, easy to get started into a drift, and with the right work, drifts better than that silvia i mentioned earlier, IMO.
 
hrm... that's too bad.


All speeds in my vids are in km/h, not mph. I'm Canadian afterall.
So it's no wonder you're flying off the road trying to take that apex at 90mph... that's practically double the speed I was going in that vid.

You can do whatever you like with the tyres. If I were you I'd certainly try N2's just to see how they suit you, and find your preference. That 91 RX-7 is very loose though. The objective of DSJ1 was actually to try and reduce the oversteer that car has to more manageable levels.

I haven't notice that they were in km/h. No wonder why i'm always flying to the sandbanks! Haha... I had tried N2, it seems more slippery, and suits me abit better on drifting. Will continue to practice. :)

Hope i can get better results soon!!!
 
The one thing I had to get myself out of while drifting was trying to just counter steer at only one position. You have to really kinda work the steering, keeping a balance of going into too much, and not enough. When you feel it about to straighten out, lessen the countersteer, and blip the throttle. Too much angle, more countersteer, and lessen the throttle a bit, BUT DONT let off. good chances the rear tires stop rolling and you spin out, in the lift-off technique. You have to get these two things into a good habit and style. Now im at the point where I can almost consistantly drift the 1st corner of deep forest.

Im using a MR2 Supercharger. 231 hp, stock suspension, the nessacary drivetrain upgrades, stock trani, N1 tires, and if i remember right I lightened the car too. When i got this car stock, took it to the Nurb for testing, It loved lift-off and feint. Just it had an open diff, and too weak to carry drifts. Great car, easy to get started into a drift, and with the right work, drifts better than that silvia i mentioned earlier, IMO.

By the way, how long had you been drifting already? I started 1 month ago, and has no results. I can at most drift 90 degrees turns, but exit is still quite bad. I had most problems on maintaining the drift and the exits. No choice but to keep on practising them to perfect it.
 
My personnal favourite is also Deep Forest. But i didn't have as much time as you do to practise it so seriously. Maybe 8 hours a week. Good luck to you pal, hope to see some videos or pictures of your drift soon.
 
unlike racing, you can't really teach someone to drift. drifting requires a lot of techniques, and each technique is used according to what the car is "Telling" you. We can tell you how to drift till your blue in the face, but you've got to teach yourself how to apply it. Drifting in this game (and in the real world) is a lot of instinct/gut feeling, and a lot of cause and effect. You've got to teach yourself, learning from your mistakes, after a lot of pratice, You'll have a little HKS crystal ball in your tuner (joke) and you'll know what to do before you have to do it. And on occasion, a little luck..if drifting was easy it wouldn't be fun..so keep at it, you'll get it..good luck. My only advice is to Tune..Tune..Tune..the tuning guide here is a good start to get a car sideways, but adjust it to your style of driving.
 
unlike racing, you can't really teach someone to drift. drifting requires a lot of techniques, and each technique is used according to what the car is "Telling" you. We can tell you how to drift till your blue in the face, but you've got to teach yourself how to apply it. Drifting in this game (and in the real world) is a lot of instinct/gut feeling, and a lot of cause and effect. You've got to teach yourself, learning from your mistakes, after a lot of pratice, You'll have a little HKS crystal ball in your tuner (joke) and you'll know what to do before you have to do it. And on occasion, a little luck..if drifting was easy it wouldn't be fun..so keep at it, you'll get it..good luck. My only advice is to Tune..Tune..Tune..the tuning guide here is a good start to get a car sideways, but adjust it to your style of driving.
Thats exactly what i'm trying to do now Brother! I'm really not good at tuning, so i will get the settings from the depot here and then make adjustments to my own driving style. I feel that this might be the best way for me to learn more on tuning and at the same time practise on drifting.

I'm really starting to get a feel on the different settings. Just hope that practise does make my driving more perfect now. Cheers brother!
 
I mean seriously as in actualy properly trying to. I guess maybe 10hours a week of actualy playing GT4, but ill sit down when im bored, and just take laps around deep forest and trying different approaches and ways. especialy the 1st left. im gettin to the point where i can take it all the way. its all practicing and learning the quarks of your car.
 
Oh YES!!!! I'm finally able to drift...!!! I'm so happy.. Still doing it only in deep forest, but i'm left with one corner undone which is the first left turn hairpin. That is really difficult for me to drift. But for all the others corners, i can pull off some quite decent drifts. However, my consistency is still lacking behind. Need to brush up on that! Hope i can post some pictures soon!
 
I can only say that my drifts look decent to me. However, the speed you veterans are drifting at will surely be faster than my drifts. I need to slowly grow as a drifter!!!! Thats my aim for the new year coming!

Clanegie Targets for 2006:
  • Able to drift thru out Deep Forest with Madza FC
  • Get higher speed at drifts
  • Smoothening my drifts
  • Get new cars to drift
  • Able to tune cars to my preferred style of driving
  • Show all the Good Guys & Brothers here my Drifting PICTURES!!
 
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