Reverse Game Confirmed or highly probably in GT5 (or maybe not)!

[The Jenius]

It really is funny and ironic... going back through the old rewind threads it was a ****storm of hate on rewind... now with the possiblity of it being in GT the atmosphere has changed drastically... some are still sticking to the "no" line but not nearly as vehimently and I see a lot of "it's ok in limited areas" now where not so long ago it was blasphemous to think of the word rewind anywhere near GT.

It's not like it wasn't expected but it's kind of funny to see it all unfold in such a predictable manor.

LOL, didn't my thread say that a week ago, that it has its place but in a practice arena. How many no's and other paranoid BS did we hear? Now its ok, but only in practice, funny stuff.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

Restarting a race= a video game.

Rewinding any turn you like= a fantasy world.

I'm all for giving beginners a chance to succeed, but you can only lead a horse to water.

 

[McLaren]

Wow, will you give it a ****ing rest? We get it, you're a GT purist. Now, please stop telling the rest of us how GT should be.

It's all just discussions. Nothing TOO serious.

There's the difference between a discussion & constantly posting your opinion over & over....

 

[Devedander]

LOL, didn't my thread say that a week ago, that it has its place but in a practice arena. How many no's and other paranoid BS did we hear? Now its ok, but only in practice, funny stuff.

Yeah, if you look back in those rewind threads from before I must have said dozens or hundreds of times exactly what is being said now, explaining it in detail with examples over and over and now look... suddenly it's like people are getting these ideas for the first time

Restarting a race= a video game.

Rewinding any turn you like= a fantasy world.

I'm all for giving beginners a chance to succeed, but you can only lead a horse to water.

Video games (pretty much by definintion) = a fantasy world.

You can lead a horse to water, but it's a total b*tch to hold it under for more than a few minutes.

 

[Rykon Zero]

*sigh* Should have known.

In Forza, the rewind feature is almost expected. It's just that kind of game.

But GT, GT isn't that kind of game. Forza is for the driving enthusiast who likes a good fun game, but GT is for the driving purist who will find and take only the best. Rewind is a feature that I really don't like in GT. GT should be a simulator on the ranks of Rfactor. not trying to compete with a rival on a completely different platform.

This irritation will subside, if rewind is done well. But I want to note it here:
At 8:11 PM, November 4, 2009, StigNumbers does not want the rewind feature in GT.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

There's the difference between a discussion & constantly posting your opinion over & over....

Instead of babysitting me, what do you think about this news? Can you contribute any ideas/opinions to this topic? Just because we likely disagree doesn't mean I will not post my thoughts.👍

 

[McLaren]

Instead of babysitting me, what do you think about this news? Can you contribute any ideas/opinions to this topic? Just because we likely disagree doesn't mean I will not post my thoughts.👍

1) I've already done so. Go back and read.
2) Posting your thought is 1 thing. You've said the same thing nearly 5 times now.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

1) I've already done so. Go back and read.
2) Posting your thought is 1 thing. You've said the same thing nearly 5 times now.

1. Interesting. We share similar ideas. So would you agree that rewind is more of a fantasy because, after all, we are dealing with a driving simulator?

2. Welcome to the Internet. Really, I was only responding to what other people said. I related it to what they said but argued my side. Remember: This is a message board. And what we've been doing for the past few posts is nothing different than what I have done in this topic.

 

[Lain]

1. Interesting. We share similar ideas. So would you agree that rewind is more of a fantasy because, after all, we are dealing with a driving simulator?

2. Welcome to the Internet. Really, I was only responding to what other people said. I related it to what they said but argued my side. Remember: This is a message board. And what we've been doing for the past few posts is nothing different than what I have done in this topic.

Gran Turismo simulates driving physics. It's not a complete everything-is-exactly-how-it-is-in-real-life simulator. Rewind doesn't alter the driving physics.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

Gran Turismo simulates driving physics. It's not a complete everything-is-exactly-how-it-is-in-real-life simulator. Rewind doesn't alter the driving physics.

I understand the physics part of Gran Turismo's realism, but does rewind really belong in a race where credits are at stake? Again, it makes sense to give beginners the chance to get used to challenging maps (or just driving in general) like The Ring, but only in a practice mode.

Secondly, the effort PD has put into the damage system seems nearly futile if rewinding a turn can fix your error.

 

[Lain]

I understand the physics part of Gran Turismo's realism, but does rewind really belong in a race where credits are at stake? Again, it makes sense to give beginners the chance to get used to challenging maps (or just driving in general) like The Ring, but only in a practice mode.

Secondly, the effort PD has put into the damage systems seems nearly futile if rewinding a turn can fix your error.

Why does it matter if they can use rewind during GT mode?

As long as rewind isn't available during license tests, I think rewind's fine just about anywhere else. The lack of rewind in the license tests should prevent the rewind-abusing newbies from progressing too far into the career mode and might prevent access to certain online rooms, if that's what you're worried about.

I've already addressed the "issue" of rewind making damage futile. It doesn't if you don't use rewind.

That's not very nice.. I cant join because I haven't had a change of heart... I STILL feel rewind has its place, wont ruin the game and is an option you can choose not to use

The group is in favor of rewind. Join if you want. 👍

 

[SrRd RacinG]

Why does it matter if they can use rewind during GT mode?

As long as rewind isn't available during license tests, I think rewind's fine just about anywhere else. The lack of rewind in the license tests should prevent the rewind-abusing newbies from progressing too far into the career mode and might prevent access to certain online rooms, if that's what you're worried about.

I've already addressed the "issue" of rewind making damage futile. It doesn't if you don't use rewind.

I cannot see Kazunori playing FM3 and using rewind over and over. If he puts it in GT mode, I expect some sort of limit. If it's only for practice or youtube videos, then that's even smarter of him.

Damage and bad driving go hand in hand. Crashing into a wall at 150 MPH and rewinding it like nothing happened is a fantasy game. It's a fantasy world. I don't associate Gran Turismo with fantasy.

 

[Devedander]

Damage and bad driving go hand in hand. Crashing into a wall at 150 MPH and rewinding it like nothing happened is a fantasy game. It's a fantasy world. I don't associate Gran Turismo with fantasy.

It's fine if you don't want to associate it, but in all fairness, having a garage of dozens or hundreds of the worlds priciest and rarest cars, being able to run in races at the drop of a hat over and over again, being able to drive while watching your car from 10 feet above the rear bumper, racing through courses and with cars as perfect and sterile looking as the ones in the game do sure doens't ring of any kind of reality my life is.

 

[Lain]

Damage and bad driving go hand in hand. Crashing into a wall at 150 MPH and rewinding it like nothing happened is a fantasy game. It's a fantasy world. I don't associate Gran Turismo with fantasy.

In that sense, restarting's pretty much the same thing. Yeah, with rewind, you don't have to start the whole race over, but so what?

FYI, this is kind of an aside, but it's somewhat of a mild reason for rewind to be present... a lot of gamers who aren't car enthusiasts, GT enthusiasts, or even fans of racing games (let alone racing sims!) are planning on buying GT5 simply because they recognize how amazing Polyphony's work is. Why deny them rewind, which would allow them to at least make some progress into the game and get a deeper appreciation for it? It's not hurting your experience with the game, nor is it hurting mine.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

To conclude: I honestly believe rewind won't be featured in GT mode. I think it has its place for practice or for replays, but not where credits are earned. If it makes GT mode, it better be limited. I cannot argue my point any further tonight. I need a rest.

 

[ralph89]

To end this discussion, Kaz should make the rewind feature "only" available on Standard physics, beginners mode, rookie, or whatever they want to call it for noobies. Very simple. It's not like everyone of you are gonna finish GT mode without using a standard physics. For those people that is patient maybe it will work for them, but for impatient? . Either they gonna end up getting frustrated playing GT mode or stop playing it at all.

 

[Dragonistic]

I still don't understand why those who don't want the feature just will accept to not use it. Myself included, if it benefits new sim drivers, fair enough, as long as the licenses remain free of it, I'm happy because I just won't use it and it therefore has no bearing on me. It certainly won't have a negative effect on anyone (hardcore fans can avoid it, like myself, new guys can use it as they wish), so if it's not been difficult to program, I don't see why not.

 

[McLaren]

1. Interesting. We share similar ideas. So would you agree that rewind is more of a fantasy because, after all, we are dealing with a driving simulator?

It may be a "fantasy", but so is driving a Suzuki Rally car over 300Mph, without any sort of aerodynamic mods. GT is not going to be the perfect simulator.

2. Welcome to the Internet. Really, I was only responding to what other people said. I related it to what they said but argued my side. Remember: This is a message board. And what we've been doing for the past few posts is nothing different than what I have done in this topic.

You responded by posting your same opinion over & over as to what you believe GT should be. You keep stating rewind should be in a practice mode only nearly every time someone thinks differently. Give it a rest.

 

[El Drifto]

I hope it's a translation error.
Or if the rewind feature is in, it should be limited to practice only, strictly no races!

If you're a noob you can practice with the rewind on, then race without it.

 

[MowTin]

I understand the physics part of Gran Turismo's realism, but does rewind really belong in a race where credits are at stake? Again, it makes sense to give beginners the chance to get used to challenging maps (or just driving in general) like The Ring, but only in a practice mode.

Secondly, the effort PD has put into the damage system seems nearly futile if rewinding a turn can fix your error.

I've been playing FM3 lately. IMO rewind is one of the best features ever added to a racing game. Dirt2 had it but it was limited and you could rewind far back enough. In FM3 it's almost unlimited.

Why is this good?

It allows you to learn the track AND play and progress through the game. This allows me to have fun playing Forza. Going to a practice track and doing laps to practice for the game and then having to restart 15 times because the AI bumps you when you brake early in corners is not fun (for most people).

A lot of people just play through the single player to get ready for online play. That's what I'm doing in FM3.

I'm really glad to hear this feature will be in GT5. But I do hope there is an option to turn it off and get some kind of bonus points or trophy. Maybe if you use replay you can only get Bronze?

 

[Devedander]

It allows you to learn the track AND play and progress through the game.

This is key... I think a lot of people here look at it from their own point of view only and don't try to see it from someone elses... segregating the learnign process to a practice arena only means it will be much less desireable to many who might legitimately need it. Integrating learning tools into the main game portion means practice can be had without feeling you you are "off to school".

I know many hate license tests, as valuable as they are, and some people upon discovering you must complete license tests to race simply pop another game in where they can go straight to having fun. It's all fine and good to sit high and mighty and say they don't desserve the GT experience if they won't earn it the hard way, but lets face it, learning when it's fun rather than in a strictly learning environment is going to be accepted by more people and their money is as green as ours.

 

[the Interceptor]

I slept on this matter and just read the interview again this morning. At first, I was convinced Kaz was talking about being able to reverse (as in rewind) in the replays, since he mentioned those right after the reversing. However, if you take the whole paragraph as one...

Is GT5 more for the advanced player or can beginners play too?

We do have a setting for people who are just learning how to drive. The other setting is very strict, where even an F1 driver can learn new tricks from the system. However, a lot of driver's aids will be included, such as driving lines, ABS, automatic braking, you can reverse your game and record your laps and share them with others. All those things. They were not that difficult to implement.

... you will notice that Kaz talks about the available variety of aids in the game to make it available for every player. You can make it totally hardcore for the pros, or you can turn on a lot of little helpers like reverse, auto-braking and so forth as well.

I would conclude that he does mean reversing the game like in Forza, but I understand it as having a large "realism menu" in the options where you can coinfigure your game to your likings, and probably switch off those aids completely. Anyone who has ever played IL-2 Sturmovik will know this type of menu options, and I think it's included in a variety of other games as well.

 

[TeamStig]

Restarting a race= a video game.

Rewinding any turn you like= a fantasy world.

I'm all for giving beginners a chance to succeed, but you can only lead a horse to water.

There's a point where a game becomes so painfully realistic that it just ceases to be fun. I'm not saying that GT5's greatness hinges on whether it has rewind or not, but I like the ability to try and improve my skills at a corner without having to restart from the beginning of the circuit, or not having my last two hours of endurance racing undone by accidentally missing a braking point. I know some may disagree, that's fine - you guys are braver than me.

And whether you're restarting or rewinding, you're already in a fantasy world because you're playing a video game. In real life you can't have unlimited and instant access to any racetrack in the world and you can't build a garage of every high performance machine ever made. But in GT, you can. So by your logic we should probably get rid of those aspects too, just because they're unrealistic.

So really, what's the problem? You can use if you want to, and not use it if you don't.

EDIT: I would also like the option to turn rewind off for more credits in an event

 

[Devedander]

I slept on this matter and just read the interview again this morning. At first, I was convinced Kaz was talking about being able to reverse (as in rewind) in the replays, since he mentioned those right after the reversing. However, if you take the whole paragraph as one...

... you will notice that Kaz talks about the available variety of aids in the game to make it available for every player. You can make it totally hardcore for the pros, or you can turn on a lot of little helpers like reverse, auto-braking and so forth as well.

I would conclude that he does mean reversing the game like in Forza, but I understand it as having a large "realism menu" in the options where you can coinfigure your game to your likings, and probably switch off those aids completely. Anyone who has ever played IL-2 Sturmovik will know this type of menu options, and I think it's included in a variety of other games as well.

It really feels like rewind to me too..

Exactly, it just as easily means you have rewind and you have uploadable ghost cars.

I think basically driving line, abs, auto brake are exactly what they sound like, reverse is rewind, record your laps is save ghosts and share them with friends is be able to send/get a ghost for a lap to see or practice against...

To be honest this list of features sounds very familiar...

 

[the Interceptor]

Please read again what I said.

 

[H20HYBRID_GT]

To conclude: I honestly believe rewind won't be featured in GT mode. I think it has its place for practice or for replays, but not where credits are earned. If it makes GT mode, it better be limited. I cannot argue my point any further tonight. I need a rest.

IMO it should be in GT mode, but as you say, it better be limeted ala Grid, Dirt2... makes it more thrilling if you can use it only 3, 4, 5 times per race.

video game = fantasy world.

Fixed.

 

[serversurfer]

I think it would feel really awkward to any of us that already know how to play GT to drive with that auto-breaking feature turned on. But I could see how it would help a newbie learn thier breaking points.

I'm inclined to agree, but honestly, I think the dynamically colored driving lines would teach braking points more effectively. Better to have the noob saying, "Okay, hit the brakes… NOW," than saying, "Oh, I guess I was supposed to start slowing down there."

I used auto-brakes to learn braking points in early F1 games, etc., but the colored line really is better for that IMO. For people that don't even understand what a braking point is, I'd say auto-brakes are actually counter-productive. Let them learn what happens if they fail to slow down. Once they learn that, let them learn how to control the brakes properly.

Customizing cars?

Rewind?

I believe FM3 has really impacted GT5.

Yes, because Forza was the first game to have either of those features.

All games already have Rewind, It's called restart, so then no game is a true sim now is it.

Restarting a race is vastly different from rewinding bad corners. If restarting were your only option, winning a race would require you to string together X good laps, whereas rewinding means you're only required to be able to get a corner right once after trying it over and over, and then it's on to the next corner, where you try, try again.

Let's say the Veyron was the prize car for a 200-lap endurance race. If restart were the only option, only the most skilled/consistent drivers would ever earn the Veyron, but with rewind, just about anyone could get it eventually. The possibility of blowing it all on the last turn of a 200-lap race is the point of a 200-lap race. If the only challenge is "getting the hard corner right… eventually," then why not make the "race" just that single corner? Why make the player waste time doing all of the other turns over and over?

I play Dirt2 a lot recently and I never used rewind until about half of the game, because ... well I thought this is a weak feature, but then I started using it and I think it's great, even makes it feel more realistic, because I usually use it when something happened what didn't feel 'right' to me.

I used it for exactly the same thing in that game—compensating for the cheesy physics. There were many times while trying to take a corner in the demo that I'd say, "What the hell? What kind of crap was that??" as my car went careening off of the track for no obvious reason. Then I decided that's what the rewind feature must be for.

Before long, I just gave up and went back to playing MotorStorm: Pacific Rift. Sure, it's just an arcade game, but it's a hell of a lot more fun, and most importantly, things happen in a predictable manner, so I feel like I actually have some say in the outcome of a race. If I win, I take all of the credit, and if I lose, I take all of the blame. I'm not at the mercy of some twink physics engine.

Am I the only one that thinks that having rewind feature would defeat the purpose of a simulator and damage?. Alot of people were complaining how GT5 is not a simulator if there is not damage and so own, but if we get rewind, why bother with damage, since you can rewind after a mistake.

Indeed.

Also, I find it ironic that the people who were calling for damage, saying, "GT can hardly call itself a 'simulator' if there are no consequences for your mistakes," are largely the same people saying, "This game sure would benefit from a do-over button."

Well obviously this can't be used online. I think it a great feature. If you read the Forza 3 review on IGN, they think of the rewind feature as good.

To all the people complaining; if you like it, don't use it. Its as simple as that.

Except it's not as simple as that. Look at my earlier example of earning the Veyron. If a less-skilled driver is willing to "cheat" to get it, and I'm not and consequently don't earn it, then even though he can't rewind when we face each other online, he still has an "unfair advantage" because he was able to cheat his way to a much better car than I have. How is it fair that he rewound his way to a Veryon while I'm still stuck in a Mugen S2000 because I wasn't willing to cheat myself a better car?

It should not be allowed where credits are involved, yet it should be included somewhere. That somewhere is not in a real race.

I'll agree with that. I'd have no problem with other drivers being able to use it as long as they don't gain anything in the process. (Except more practice, of course.)

FYI, this is kind of an aside, but it's somewhat of a mild reason for rewind to be present... a lot of gamers who aren't car enthusiasts, GT enthusiasts, or even fans of racing games (let alone racing sims!) are planning on buying GT5 simply because they recognize how amazing Polyphony's work is. Why deny them rewind, which would allow them to at least make some progress into the game and get a deeper appreciation for it? It's not hurting your experience with the game, nor is it hurting mine.

I'd say they'd gain a much deeper appreciation for the game if they simply learned how to drive. What's the point in giving them the Veyron if they can't keep it on the track?

A friend of mine was complaining that his Viper was "undrivable," so I made him race a stock Alto Works until he'd learned some proper driving techniques. Then he got to move up to an Integra, and so on. In the end, he became a far better driver, and was finally able to control his Viper, which made him love the game more than ever.

So no, you're not always doing someone a favor by letting them reach the endgame too quickly. If you really want to give bad drivers the opportunity to pilot good cars, then just make all cars unlocked in Arcade or something. IME, casual players are usually annoyed they need to unlock anything at all, so that's probably your best bet for attracting the casual crowd anyway.

------------------------------------------------------------

I never longed for rewind in GT because if I made a mistake, it was my fault, and I just dealt with the consequences. Similarly, if I blow a difficult jump in Ratchet, I don't bitch about needing to go back to the checkpoint and fight my way back again. (i.e. "Restarting the race.") Sure, blowing that jump five times can be pretty frustrating, especially if it takes me a while just to get back to that point again, but it sure is satisfying when I complete the whole section without screwing up. If driving games "need" a rewind feature, then why isn't it demanded for all games?

 

[yossigab]

I also think it's a crappy feature.

Do you know which racing cars games have this feature? It's FM3 GRID, NFS Shift etc.
Those games are arcade style games (even though NFSS supposed to be sim it is still an arcade style).

And which games doesn't have this feature? iRacing, RFactor, GTR series etc.
Those games are SIMS not arcade.

Now, if GT5 include this feature it is becoming more and more arcade rather than simulator, a thing that the community and KY itself don't want (I guess...)

 

[serversurfer]

I think basically driving line, abs, auto brake are exactly what they sound like, reverse is rewind, record your laps is save ghosts and share them with friends is be able to send/get a ghost for a lap to see or practice against...

To be honest this list of features sounds very familiar...

Very familiar indeed…

Ooh, I know! It sounds just like Gran Turismo, except with two new aids that have been in lots of other games!

 

[Devedander]

Very familiar indeed…

Ooh, I know! It sounds just like Gran Turismo, except with two new aids that have been in lots of other games!

Yes and your avatar is comprised of one specialty feature and a bunch of human features found on many other humans... but it pretty much exactly matches only one I can think of