Ridiculously overpriced used cars

[Tornado]

I'm not sure if really low mileage helps a 996 when it just means that they don't know yet if the engine is a time bomb. Even the C4S I looked at last year was ~60000 miles with the full leather, Litronic and Bose and it was still only 28 grand; and the Targa I saw was 26 (with the IMS already replaced and the sport exhaust instead of leather). Maybe if it already had the engine yanked to do all the preventative work and a boroscope put down it.



I think the various Carreras have the same problem as the C5 of the same vintage, where the successor is fundamentally the same car underneath but across the board improved and with most of the niggles fixed. Turbos are where I'd think higher of the future.

 

[GranTurNismo]

I still don't get why a stock Civic SI (a USDM only car, mind you) is worth as much as half a hundred grand, regardless of how great it's engine is or whatever fanbase it has. At the end of the day, it's a mass-produced sporty economy coupe that's only marginally faster than a Ford ZX2 or Dodge Neon R/T, both of which are worth less than a tenth of what the aforementioned Civic is selling for.

 

[Tornado]

I still don't get why a stock Civic SI (a USDM only car, mind you) is worth as much as half a hundred grand, regardless of how great it's engine is or whatever fanbase it has

"I don't understand why a mint Civic Si is worth a lot of money when it only has a lot of people willing to pay a lot of money for one"

At the end of the day, it's a mass-produced sporty economy coupe that's only marginally faster than a Ford ZX2 or Dodge Neon R/T, both of which are worth less than a tenth of what the aforementioned Civic is selling for.

It's almost as if one was a very desirable car even before the mainstream tuner boom with a substantially higher price in comparison and was directly replaced with a car everyone hated; and the other two were incentive-laden cars that were bought by autocrossers and parents for Sweet 16 presents and disposed of as soon as they reached the end of their life (frequently before 100,000 miles) and basically just died from market apathy.

True, but half a hundred grand? That's EK Type R money.

(a USDM only car, mind you)

Why do you think this matters? Several years from now when one-owner creampuff EK CTRs are actually eligible for importation, the prices could very well be pushed to be even more expensive than this is, just like similar USDM ITRs already are.



They could also stay less expensive, because it's no simple thing importing a 25 year old Japanese car compared to going on BaT and whipping out your checkbook for the nicest car on the site. All of the early 90s JDM NSXs being available for import hasn't depressed USDM NSXs. 240SXs are still expensive even though turbo Silvias can be had now. No one wants to deal with keeping a Z16A running regardless of it it says 3000GT or GTO on the back. Wankels blow up in FD3S regardless of what side the car the wheel is on.
Skylines are what people are taking the trouble to import regardless of cost and complexity. Skylines are what people will continue to take the trouble to import. The only thing I think will be added to that list of high demand regularly imported cars are the latter Mirage-based Evos and S16s; and maybe CTR/ITRs as the USDM models become so expensive that a new supply is looked for to save money.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

"I don't understand why a mint Civic Si is worth a lot of money when it only has a lot of people willing to pay a lot of money for one"



It's almost as if one was a very desirable car even before the mainstream tuner boom with a substantially higher price in comparison and was directly replaced with a car everyone hated; and the other two were incentive-laden cars that were bought by autocrossers and parents for Sweet 16 presents and disposed of as soon as they reached the end of their life (frequently before 100,000 miles) and basically just died from market apathy.


Why do you think this matters? Several years from now when one-owner creampuff EK CTRs are actually eligible for importation, the prices could very well be pushed to be even more expensive than this is, just like similar USDM ITRs already are.



They could also stay less expensive, because it's no simple thing importing a 25 year old Japanese car compared to going on BaT and whipping out your checkbook for the nicest car on the site. All of the early 90s JDM NSXs being available for import hasn't depressed USDM NSXs. 240SXs are still expensive even though turbo Silvias can be had now. No one wants to deal with keeping a Z16A running regardless of it it says 3000GT or GTO on the back. Wankels blow up in FD3S regardless of what side the car the wheel is on.
Skylines are what people are taking the trouble to import regardless of cost and complexity. Skylines are what people will continue to take the trouble to import. The only thing I think will be added to that list of high demand regularly imported cars are the latter Mirage-based Evos and S16s; and maybe CTR/ITRs as the USDM models become so expensive that a new supply is looked for to save money.

The fact that JDM cars will basically never be legal in California (at least not without a great deal of work & expense) should keep prices of the USDM variants (EM Civic SI, USDM ITR) pretty high even when the 25 year-rule elapses. If you can't smog it, then it's going to be worth less. Granted, the majority of Americans don't live in CA, but the shear amount of money in the state tends to skew prices nationwide. Though they are technically better, I'm gonna guess that the JDM CTR and JDM ITR will remain cheaper than their USDM counterparts after they are eligible for importation.

 

[Tornado]

I've been hearing conflicting things from inspection places about whether cars made after 1996 would be able to skip the OBD-II check after 2021 because I plan to import a Pajero Mini or Alto Works in a couple years. I don't think NY follows the regulations of the PRC that closely, but the DMV website is contradictory on that.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

I've been hearing conflicting things from inspection places about whether cars made after 1996 would be able to skip the OBD-II check after 2021 because I plan to import a Pajero Mini or Alto Works in a couple years. I don't think NY follows the regulations of the PRC that closely, but the DMV website is contradictory on that.

It's interesting to me that CARB turns a blind eye towards diesels. I could get myself a nice little turbodiesel Pajero or Delica or something like that and it would be totally fine in CA...even if it's far worse for the environment.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

This:
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inven...ctedEntity=c5832#listing=274258412_isFeatured

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

This:
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inven...ctedEntity=c5832#listing=274258412_isFeatured

This seems about right for a fairly clean STI actually. I don't think you can get one much cheaper unless its salvage.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

This seems about right for a fairly clean STI actually. I don't think you can get one much cheaper unless its salvage.

But why though? It just seems too much to me with the milage it has.

 

[Downhill Dino]

That's a deal if anything. You don't see unmodified ones anymore, if it was the engine would have been rebuilt by now.

 

[Tornado]

Because it's an unmolested example of a car that was highly regarded when new, is arguably the most desired body style of it, and for which demand for it has always exceeded supply.




You want a deal on an STi, you build one yourself out of a Saab or find one that was driven into a lake.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

But why though? It just seems too much to me with the milage it has.

With a car as rare as this (the blob-eye STI was only made for 2 years in the US - about 15,000 total cars) the mileage is less important than the condition. This one seems to be in pretty good shape and, importantly, isn't modified. I've rarely seen any STIs for sale out west for less than $20k.

 

[McLaren]

Mileage doesn't even seem that bad for a car of its caliber. 110,000 miles in 16 years with only 2 owners.

 

[RandomCarGuy17]

That's a deal if anything. You don't see unmodified ones anymore, if it was the engine would have been rebuilt by now.

Because it's an unmolested example of a car that was highly regarded when new, is arguably the most desired body style of it, and for which demand for it has always exceeded supply.

Right, I forgot about the kind of people that would mod these death. That makes sense.

You want a deal on an STi, you build one yourself out of a Saab or find one that was driven into a lake.

Err, no. That's alright, I prefer to go get something else.

Funny, I always thought the Hawkeye was more desirable.

With a car as rare as this (the blob-eye STI was only made for 2 years in the US - about 15,000 total cars) the mileage is less important than the condition. This one seems to be in pretty good shape and, importantly, isn't modified. I've rarely seen any STIs for sale out west for less than $20k.

That also makes sense, I forget how rare these are. It always feels more common to me than it actually is. Probably because I keep lumping them in.

Mileage doesn't even seem that bad for a car of its caliber. 110,000 miles in 16 years with only 2 owners.

Gotcha, mileage isn't everything.

 

[EngieDiesel]

Mileage doesn't even seem that bad for a car of its caliber. 110,000 miles in 16 years with only 2 owners.

And the only real issue is a catalytic converter according to the listing, which is not that difficult to fix in the grand scheme of things. For an STI that's practically "only driven on Sundays by a little old lady".

Heck, I'd even throw in an extra grand if he still has the stock wheels for it.

 

[05XR8]

https://amp.news.com.au/technology/...t/news-story/9cba8d189830df42adbcb139f1faab51

I dunno, such a rare car and pretty much most people associate a Falcon Coupe with Mad Max, I nearly posted in the undervalued thread.

 

[SPhilli911]

This:
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/inven...ctedEntity=c5832#listing=274258412_isFeatured

The car is no longer listed on the site, but I would be curious what the price/ mileage was. I know with these cars that finding one that is nearly stock is a major factor in price since it's so rare. The 2004 model was the only STI (in the U.S.) with the 5x100 wheel bolt pattern (making the OEM wheels rare), narrow rear fenders and the more basic interior. In my opinion it is better than the 2005 model which shared the same front end.

I owned a used 2004 STI for about 3 years, left it near stock condition and put 30,000 miles on it. I did not have the OEM wheels, but when I sold it with 85,000 miles, it sold for more than I paid for it. I would happily pay more for a car like that again!

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

The car is no longer listed on the site, but I would be curious what the price/ mileage was. I know with these cars that finding one that is nearly stock is a major factor in price since it's so rare. The 2004 model was the only STI (in the U.S.) with the 5x100 wheel bolt pattern (making the OEM wheels rare), narrow rear fenders and the more basic interior. In my opinion it is better than the 2005 model which shared the same front end.

I owned a used 2004 STI for about 3 years, left it near stock condition and put 30,000 miles on it. I did not have the OEM wheels, but when I sold it with 85,000 miles, it sold for more than I paid for it. I would happily pay more for a car like that again!

Pretty sure it was 110k miles for around $15k.

 

[GranTurNismo]

This Ferrari 360 Modena limousine is up for grabs at a whopping $400,000.

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/08/s...lling-a-ferrari-360-modena-limo-for-au399999/

 

[Ant78]

This Ferrari 360 Modena limousine is up for grabs at a whopping $400,000.

View attachment 946426

View attachment 946427

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/08/s...lling-a-ferrari-360-modena-limo-for-au399999/

That to me looks like it has accelerated so fast it's left its back end behind

 

[EngieDiesel]

This Ferrari 360 Modena limousine is up for grabs at a whopping $400,000.

View attachment 946426

View attachment 946427

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/08/s...lling-a-ferrari-360-modena-limo-for-au399999/

It's completely unnecessary and kind of a waste of a perfectly good supercar, but at the same time... they actually did a pretty solid job on the limo conversion. The extension matches the original lines far better than I've seen on jobs done to other sports cars that suffered the same fate (like, oh, every Camaro limo I've ever seen).

That said, 400,000 Koalabucks for that thing is hilariously optimistic. A stock Modena is valued at about $80-100,000 USD in top condition, and around $60k for one with some mileage on it.

 

[linksracer]

Australia's been going a bit crazy with the used cars at the moment, a lot of cars listed for reasonable prices are selling the same day. Somehow, COVID has led to a mass reduction in the supply of used cars, however demand has remained level or even increased. This has pushed the prices of a lot of highly sought after sports cars going throw the roof.

There are some particular stand outs that have arisen recently, leaving the community a bit bewildered as to how these cars are even selling for these prices.

For instance:

One of, if not the most expensive Nissan Skyline GTR R34's ever listed in Australia.
This particular car is the M-Spec which are very rare, with only 285 ever made.
However this begs the question, does the rarity justify the $555,000 price tag being more than double any other GTR currently for sale, a car that is widely considered to be overpriced in the first place.
2002 Nissan Skyline GT-R M-Spec Nur BNR34

Once again, probably the most expensive Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution to ever be listed.
This particular car is the Lancer Evolution VIII MR FQ 400, 1 of only 100 ever made.
This car was listed for a staggering $195,000 which far eclipses any Evolution of any model to ever be listed in Australia and is about 5 times more than the average VIII MR is being sold for right now.
Unfortunately I don't have a link for this one since it was posted in a private Facebook group.

There's been quite a few Honda Civic EG's with K24 or K20 engine swaps.
These would normally be worth about $8,000 - $13,000. Since COVID, these have been regularly listed for $20,000, which quite frankly is absurd for an almost 30 year old Honda Civic with a different motor. I expect that when things return to normal these will drop in price again, but for the moment they are ridiculously overpriced for what you're getting.

 

[05XR8]

Owners are asking over $5000 for cars like my old '83 Corona S. Prices have always been unrealistic in Australia.

 

[Eunos_Cosmo]

Australia's been going a bit crazy with the used cars at the moment, a lot of cars listed for reasonable prices are selling the same day. Somehow, COVID has led to a mass reduction in the supply of used cars, however demand has remained level or even increased. This has pushed the prices of a lot of highly sought after sports cars going throw the roof.

Not sure how it is relative to Aus, but the US has been encountering the same issue. I've noticed the supply of cars on craigslist has dropped significantly since the beginning of the year.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Not sure how it is relative to Aus, but the US has been encountering the same issue. I've noticed the supply of cars on craigslist has dropped significantly since the beginning of the year.

I can't find anything. It impedes my browsing time for cars that I won't buy.

 

[Tornado]

Not sure how it is relative to Aus, but the US has been encountering the same issue. I've noticed the supply of cars on craigslist has dropped significantly since the beginning of the year.

Every year I have to convince myself that, no, I should not buy a Fiero.


This year there have been no Fieros.

 

[ROAD_DOGG33J]

Every year I have to convince myself that, no, I should not buy a Fiero.


This year there have been no Fieros.

There's a Fierri on carsandbids.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3OA5vLjY/1986-pontiac-fiero

 

[McLaren]

For instance:

One of, if not the most expensive Nissan Skyline GTR R34's ever listed in Australia.
This particular car is the M-Spec which are very rare, with only 285 ever made.
However this begs the question, does the rarity justify the $555,000 price tag being more than double any other GTR currently for sale, a car that is widely considered to be overpriced in the first place.
2002 Nissan Skyline GT-R M-Spec Nur BNR34

I'm a bit torn on this, but inclining towards agreement with you.

That's around $400,000 US & it's got around 8500 miles. And it appears to be a limited-made trim (it has Nur & M-Spec production numbers separate so I don't know how rare it is to have a car with both, unless all M-Specs have Nur-specifications). I have seen 2 V-Spec II Nurs command around $340,000 & $230,000 at auction in Japan in the last 1-2 years, but with a lot less miles (1 car had 10km on the odo). I can only try to guess that there's something about the M-Spec trim that commands that much more money or there's something about it being in Australia (maybe the country has a high-importation fee/tax & they want to recuperate some of it?).

I will say with it being V-Spec Performance, maybe there is something about that specific car to ask so much. They seem to have a strong history with some really infamous Skylines; 400Rs, couple Mine's cars, a Midnight Purple Z-Tune.

 

[ScottPuss20]

This Ferrari 360 Modena limousine is up for grabs at a whopping $400,000.

View attachment 946426

View attachment 946427

https://www.carscoops.com/2020/08/s...lling-a-ferrari-360-modena-limo-for-au399999/

It's not worth that much, let me tell you.

 

[Tornado]

I'm a bit torn on this, but inclining towards agreement with you.

That's around $400,000 US & it's got around 8500 miles. And it appears to be a limited-made trim (it has Nur & M-Spec production numbers separate so I don't know how rare it is to have a car with both, unless all M-Specs have Nur-specifications). I have seen 2 V-Spec II Nurs command around $340,000 & $230,000 at auction in Japan in the last 1-2 years, but with a lot less miles (1 car had 10km on the odo). I can only try to guess that there's something about the M-Spec trim that commands that much more money or there's something about it being in Australia (maybe the country has a high-importation fee/tax & they want to recuperate some of it?).

I will say with it being V-Spec Performance, maybe there is something about that specific car to ask so much. They seem to have a strong history with some really infamous Skylines; 400Rs, couple Mine's cars, a Midnight Purple Z-Tune.

They did make 3 times as many V-Spec-II Nurs as they did M-Spec ones. Between that and the equipment differences, maybe that's why.