To make this shorter so I can get to Forza, my main problem with GT now is that it's no longer Gran Turismo, the game. It's Gran Turismo, the name. I'd appreciate a return to it being a game before anything else.
Lets be real, GT as a series has always been about Kaz's deluded visions of grandeur for a racing game, but he certainly had to work in order to make those a reality, and as a result, GT's 1 through 4 (though in my opinion, 2 and 4 actually are probably the better games because they can leverage higher car counts with more content and make it a more complete experience) are still fun to play, even today. It's once GT5 comes around, and the long and protracted development cycle, coupled with Kaz becoming the biggest Japanese figurehead for a division that has increasingly been propped up by Western studios, where the belief that GT should be elevated above a video game and somehow be a virtual museum to the car and the socio-political elements of that while also giving the middle finger to anyone that isn't interested in a game mostly being online based in order to make a console equivalent to iRacing comes from.
no real focused career structure, or even a decent line of sight, i.e. "How do I get this car?" or "I want to beat this race but I can't get past this car that's faster than anything I have starting off".
Honestly, I think this is definitely the biggest problem with Forza as a whole, franchise wise (Maybe Horizon more so then Motorsport in my opinion) is that there is no sense of scalability. No sense of working towards something. And to be honest, I get that idea of giving people instant action right away, and making it easier - to be honest, I find myself more interested in being able to hop in and have fun, whether that be playing a few matches of Warzone in Modern Warfare in the evening time, or playing Animal Crossing before going to bed. But with a racing game, especially an on track one like GT and Forza are, you need to have a sort of beginning point, and then broaden it as a person goes through the divisions until they reach the hypercars and LMP cars.
But really, I feel myself growing increasingly disinterested with track racers as a whole, because so much of the genre (mainly from a
very loud minority who feel the need to get a return on investment from their expensive sim racing equipment and lord it as a status symbol) is focused on realism where there still absolutely is a market for more laid back, arcade racers, though certainly what people want is really only able to be built by AAA companies - indie developers have tried, but they simply don't have the resources or firepower needed. Even if Forza Motorsport returned to a more focused career structure, I kind of doubt I'd be interested in it.
Seriously, people are okay with sacrificing cars for the next Forza? Really?
As mentioned, you had it explained to you why this might be a good idea. If it means making a more cohesive *game*, and not just simply a toy box where the actual racing varies wildly, and the biggest feature is counting the amount of cars that spend time in the garage collecting dust, then so be it.
Frankly, maybe you and Toko should sit on the sidelines for this one considering that both of you seem to have an aversion to (actual) criticisms with the Forza series, both in Horizon and Motorsport, from people who actually have played the games, and simply aren't using bad faith arguments to start GT/Forza fanwars on either forum.
Third, Motorsport games in Forza is synonymous with simulation.
Insanely debatable considering that Forza has never been a final word on simulation for any of the games, even when GT and Forza were battling together and the gaming press saw these games as sims. They aren't - they really are simcade games, the very definition of the term. Easy enough to get into, and possess a deeper understanding of vehicle physics then most arcade racers, but they certainly aren't sim games.
.
