Russian Invasion of Ukraine
- Thread starter Rage Racer
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It’s called an invasion. For conquest purposes.
inCloud
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- Kannon33r
Armenia(in fact both nations) committed genocide in 1991-1994 and occupied internationally recognised territory of Azerbaijan(no one recognised Karabah as independent state, even Armenia). Whole region is mess.
Wat?
And what next? Feed Baltic States to RF? Taiwan to China? N.Korea occupies S.Korea with China help? Anyone should understand one simple concept - aggressive behaviour against internationally recognised country isnt good thing. Thats how you maintain peace on a globe.
- 2,510
- Caerphilly, SW
- [-_-]MILO[-_-]
- RYAN-31
You guys will come around eventually, Lets not have a repeat of those other couple of times when it took you 2-3 years to realize right from wrong...
If the mindless destruction of civilians and their infrastructure isn't enough on it's own to justify supporting Ukraine then I guess that shows what kind of person you are. Thats without mentioning the fact they are an aspiring democratic nation that has suffered under the misery of their bigger neighbour for too long and they just want what we all take for granted. Freedom and Prosperity.
I understand we all have our own problems like there's a lot of problems in the UK that needs to be dealt with, But on a basic human level theres no doubt in my mind that supporting Ukraine is the right thing to do.
Let the Storm Shadows fly.
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Keef
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Likewise, the quickest way for you to give me all your money is for me to come take it. Shall I be on my way?
Or is it clear that taking things that belongs to other people is wrong, and that basic rule should be defended?
- 2,510
- Caerphilly, SW
- [-_-]MILO[-_-]
- RYAN-31
Exactly, You are so right!
What would the average American do if some Ne'er-Do-Well broke into their house or property and refused to get out? Would they sit down and talk and let them keep whatever part of the property they were occupying or make them leave...By any means necessary.
I think I know the answer...
- 3,959
- Null Island
- 13,887
- Adelaide
- Neomone
Again, the actual method proposed to achieve this and the concessions given for doing so matters. Russia is not going to just go away because Trump told them to - they will want something in return.
I'd attempt to be Socratic and ask you if you can think of any cost too high for the end of the war, but I'm terribly worried that you'll actually say no.
Interesting that you use "to lose" as synonymous with Ukraine losing. It would be just as quick for Russia to lose and back out of the entire thing. Or is that not an option?
MonoTonouS
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The difference is every one who joined into WW2 was directly attacked by Hitler or part of an alliance. Russia didn't attack the USA/ England / Germany / etc etc. nor is the Ukraine part of NATO or any other alliance . No one can rebut that .This one does it better, at least for me.
Ukraine has every right to fight off the invasion , Every country has the right to deny aid , In fact aiding the war is just creating a proxy war because the aid isn't justified under an alliance .It's interventionist and all interventionist wars are seen poorly as time occurs without exception .
Again why are none of you advocating for the intervention of western nations the Azerbaijani invasion of Armenia .. Is that because the west can't upset Turkey who backs Azerbaijan . Suddenly upholding justice and whatever other b.s. you guys claim gets thrown out the window . They literally dropped bombs on civilians two weeks ago and no one in europe cared.
Europeans have such an asinine way of thinking about war , so much so that when anything minor happens every one picks sides and millions die. You guys popped off two world wars and we would be going at it had the USA and Russia not pacified the world through nuclear deterrence . May I remind you that Hittler was a monster created by the allies, their great plan was to suffocate Germany's economy to the brink if desperation . You guys were the bad guys until the monster made an army. Yes big brains , lets punish this country so it's people are living in poverty and expect no animosity.
The irony here is the United states is hated for it's intervention and europe always ends up washing it's filthy hands . You war mongers partook in both the Iraqi and Afghani invasion and then say " the USA did it" .
History will judge you harshly the same way every rational human mocks the ******** interventions the United States did.
Your only justification is : I hate Putin . I could debunk your false narrative of justice and liberty quite easily by your apathy towards other unjust invasions going on where the west has turned a blind eye.
Just because Azerbaijan was internationally recognized doesn't mean an invasion didn't occur or that Armenians didn't suffer a massive genocide and are still being attacked to this day. The people being killed by Azerbaijanis troops are people who have lived in that region their entire life and who's great grand parents lived there . Armenia's borders were well established long before Azerbaijan even existed. Does Taiwan not exist because the USA didn't recognize it? Some other guy said We should defend Taiwan too. Why ? It's not internationally recognized 😂🤣.
As to the " invasion" argument .
The Allies decided to strip palestine of it's land to give to Israel which didn't even exist at the time and Israel is internationally recognized . I guess it's ok to steal land from Palestinians because some people believe in a fictional book . Modern Day Jews living in Isreal are genetically European so don't even try to pull the " that's their ancient homeland" argument .
Using international " recognition" is a cop out . You can go crack open a history book and read how many times Europe just arbitrarily created borders for political reasons . The invasion argument is a cop out. Not every nation being invaded or going through a coupe is assisted .
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- 13,887
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- Neomone
Is this the Nagorno-Karabakh thread all of a sudden? You seem to be assuming a lot about other people's opinions simply because they haven't posted about things that are not directly relevant to the topic being discussed.
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- eran0004
Strong words from a guy who thinks the aggressor should win the war. Ending the support to Ukraine would make Russia win territory relatively easy but if you believe it would lead to peace then you have learned nothing from Iraq or Afghanistan.
Ukraine is very much in the UN. By the UN charter they have the right to defend themselves against an armed aggression. Russia on the other hand has no right to invade Ukraine. If you believe in a more just and peaceful world then it’s an extremely odd stance to throw the UN charter in the bin “for the sake of peace”.
NATO is a defence alliance, it’s a promise that the member states will assist each other’s defence. NATO has no such deal with Ukraine, which means they don’t have to help Ukraine. However, just because there’s no promise to help them doesn’t mean that it’s not “our business”. By the UN charter, other countries have the right to help Ukraine and assist in their defence until there is a UN resolution that says otherwise. It’s in many NATO members’ interest that Russia is not allowed to invade and occupy Ukraine, in part because it’s a violation of international law and in part because it increases the risk that Russia will invade a NATO member next.
Nagorno-Karabakh is a region in Azerbaijan, not in Armenia. The area is disputed between the two countries because ethnic Armenians are a majority there and the region declared itself independent from Azerbaijan around the time of the collapse of the Soviet Union. Prior to the second Nagorno-Karabakh war the region was actually occupied by Armenian forces.
So Azerbaijan fought against Armenia, but they didn’t invade or occupy Armenia.
Which side in the conflict do you believe should be supported and what’s the justification?
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- 40,812
That's great and all but you know Forza 8 came out and I want to know how what someone thinks about the CarPG system is supposed to determine their opinion on the Uyghur Muslims.
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- TexRex72
Android here and no difficulty whatsoever. Have you considered you may just be incompetent?
inCloud
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Its not invasion if you invaded your own land
Any proofs about genocide happening right now? Armenians just leaving NK, but Azerbaijan promised that civilians could live here as long as they want.
In 1991-1994 when 20to40k Azerbaijanians were banished or killed as result of war. And no one said they could stay here.
Almost any country in the world de-facto recognised Taiwan.
And that's theme for another topic. Non relevant for us.
Wat? Both states were formed in 20 century.
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- driftking18594
- CiaranGTR94
I wouldn't exactly take the word of a country that scores the same on civil liberties as Saudi Arabia and has just named a street in Stepanakert after Enver Pasha.
inCloud
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- Kannon33r
I am biased to Armenians, but facts aren't on their side. Things could be much better for NKR if Armenian government trade Karabah for Zangezur corridor in 2000s. Instead, they sit on their corrupted asses in believe that RF would always defend them.
Azerbaijan is disgusting autocratic regime, but Aliev isn't mad dictator.
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UKMikey
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OK, sorry, it's just that "Ukraine isn't part of NATO or the UN" was asterisked out when you quoted him and I thought it might be a situation like with Twitter where you couldn't see it for some reason. If not and I misunderstood then never mind, just trying to help you out.
His point seems pretty asinine as usual. Ukraine was a founding member of the UN.
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